The Official P-61 Group Build Thread

Thank you Fred

I will probally be driving everyone nuts with questions. Hummmmm I do know a mold maker just maybe .........................

Randy

Well got good news today, some of my PE arrived in the mail but only the interior PE the rest is back ordered :( Anyway I hope to get going in the next week or so.

Hello all

Good news I will be starting my 61 next week hopefully will have a couple of pics at the end of the week. I am looking forward to this P-61 will have a chance to see what I have learned over the last year or so.

Time to start the P-61 I finished the P-51 BG and went right up to the deadline so figure I should start now so that doesnt happen with this BG. I opened the box today and washed all the sprews in warm water and soap so should be ready to start trimming dry fitting and such in the morning. I will be doing this 61 in OD and try my hand at making it look very used and dirty. I have some scratch building thoughts for it too we will have see how that works out as I have done very little in the past. I will also be using Interior PE got a great deal on e-bay and couldnt resist.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all this nifty photo etch stuff where to start !!!

Yup there is another P-61 under construction. I will have some WIP pictures this weekend. I havent been able to work on it as much as I want to and the ejector pin marks are driving me crazy. This is the second one I have built and this one is much worse than the first one was. loads of flash too. I also noticed the upper wing panels may be warped.

I thinks its time for some gettin started pictures, so heres one to show, Yup there is another 61 being built.

Got some work done on the IP and most of the interior parts painted green. I didnt like the way the PE looked on the insterment panel so tried something a bit differant. I will post a few pictures of that first of the week.

Time for a few more WIP pictures. I would like comments on these, like what I did wrong and what I could do to make them better.

Insterment Panel and bulkheads. I didnt like the way the PE looked because I couldnt see the panel very well. So I did the paint thing but instead of dry brushing wilt silver I dry brushed with nutural gray, seemed to really make the dials pop.

Cockpit floors and seats.

I used tape for the seatbelts and sealed them with 2 coats of future so they wont come loose. I used the usual Tamiya interior green then dry brushed the seat bottoms and floors with light gray and added some detail with a silver color pencil after the dull coat.

I told ya I am a slow builder LOL. I will have s couple more pictures tomorrow of the fuse halves.

I am back with a couple more progress pictures. These are of the crew cabin canopy fixes that I came up with. I glued some evergreen .015 strips, two of them on each rail for a total of .030 shim, making the crystal fit quite well. I still have a bit of shaping to do around the upper corners of the front canopy to blend it to the fuse better.

This is how I shimmed the canopy rails with evergreen. This kit as I have said is much worse than the first one I built.

Heres one with the crystals on they look like they fit pretty well to me.

Here are more WIP pictures. I never liked the looks of the induction/ oil cooler intakes on the wing leading edges because they look so flat with no depth or detail so I came up with this idea.

I wanted to go from this look

To this look. Once I glue the wing halves togeather I will add the vertical ribs. I still have to add the half round ducting to the inboard intake but haven't figured out the halfround tubing yet maybe some halfround evergreen tacked togeather and drilled out.

Here's a picture of how I did the ducting using evergreen strips. When finished they will be painted  zink chromate yellow. Let me know what you think.

Here's the NMF Widow we talked about, V-man..

General Barnes's Personal P-61 story is as follows:

Major General Earl W. Barnes was the 13th Air Task Force commander and commanded the 18th and 347th Fighter Groups (P-38), 42nd Bomb Group (B-25), and the 419th Night Fighter Squadron (P-70 initially, then P-61).  He was constantly in the air scouting for potential new bases and anything else that would keep his forces at peak operating level.  His personal P-61 was  P-61A-5-02 NO, S/N 42-5531 from the 419th NFS, the second "dash 5" to come off the Northrop assembly-line of 35 dash 5's built, and had a long-range fuel tank installed in place of the turret.  His personal insignia on the tail was a blue circle with a red center and two white stars denoting his rank.  He logged over 1000 hours in the gunner's seat searching for new airstrips and was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for these feats.  The citation, in part, read: "On 19 June 1944, General Barnes made an unescorted reconnaissance flight in a P-61 aircraft to Cape Sansapore from Middleburg Island to select aerodrome sites.  This flight was the longest single-aircraft flight into enemy territory up to that time."... 

His Air Task Force was interesting to me as it was the only one in the Southwest Pacific that consisted entirely of both twin-engined Fighter and Bombardment aircraft and that he was the only ATF Commander that flew in a fighter, and it was the only all-silver P-61 in the USAAF. Other than the personal markings, black S/N, and national insignia, the only other color on the General's Widow was the OD anti-glare panels and front & rear canopy framing.  The framing's paint was later removed and the anti-glare panels were made smaller and painted flat black.  You can see in the photos the change in those areas, plus the additional paint removed from some previously OD panels on the port nacelle...

Regarding the intakes on my Widow, I replaced the molded-in stuff with strip styrene too...

Mr. Hans Von Hammer You da man!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for the pictures, and info on the only NMF P-61A. I dont often, in fact I have only built one model after a real plane in the past. One I have a picture of in 1943 parked on the farry line at what is now LAX, waiting to go over seas, a P-51B. I will be building General Barnes's P-61A very soon in the NMF group. The one question I would have, does the nose have the raydome on it or was it aluminum, as I cant tell from the picture.  Looking at the picture of your leading edge inlets confirm what I was thinking about they way they will look, a HUGE improvement. Hans I want to publicly thank you for all your help on my currant project, a passed project, and hopefully future ones. Maybe one day I will be able to pay it back in some way.

 Ah, no sweat, Vetteman.

The one question I would have, does the nose have the raydome on it or was it aluminum, as I cant tell from the picture.

It has the A-model fiberglass radome in the top picture, but in the bottom one, it appears to me that the nose was rebuilt in aluminumn as a cargo space (looks like a hatch on the right side), which isn't unlikely for a hack aircraft... My source has the General's P-61 as having the radar removed (although retaining the 20mm guns) and recieving several other, internal, modifications as well as some "creature comforts" being installed in the cockpits. It's not specific about what they were however.

In the pic below, you can see pretty well how much of the radome was fiberglass and it matches with the shape of the suspected replacement part in the bottom photo of the General's plane...

The above picture was probably either classified or escaped the censors... Sorry 'bout the quality... It was obvoiusly a picture taken by someone who probably wasn't supposed to be taking any pictures of the aircraft in the first place...

I don't often model a specific aircraft either, mainly because of the rivet-counters out there (You know who you are) who'll nit-pick ya to death ("No, that aircraft, S/N 44-29822, had only 73 rivets on its starboard gonkulator actuating rod-housing, and yours has 74... That aircraft was only that way after 13 June 44 at 3:47 p.m. and you've modeled it as it was painted on the 12th by SSG Tom Pointless using his dog Spot's collar to hold the paint bucket since the handle had broken off the previous Thursday, which, you'll notice, is missing from your diorama..." )

I use accurate group and squadron codes, insignia, and make up the serial numbers/aircraft ID letters/numbers..

Thanks for all the pictures Hans. It seem most pictures from WWII arent the greatest quality and B/W makes it even worst most of the time. I have been playing with the pictures of the Generals P-61 most of the afternoon, trying to enhance them a bit so I could see the lines on the nose a little better. To me it looks like aluminum panels may have been added over the top of the nose and around the tip. There just looks like there are two completely differant materials there and what I think I am seeing doesnt make any sence to me. Anyway what I think i am seeing is the raydome on the sides due to lack of any panel lines and if it was a hatch wouldnt there be some sign of panel lines and an outline of the hatch ? And it does seem an odd shape for a hatch too. I blew up the area heres the picture.

Oh Hans LOL I dont worry about the so called rivet counters I dont build anything they would care to look at anyway, I build to have fun and get somewhat close to looking like what I am building. If one got down to the nitty gritty most all of the detail on these 1/48 models are way out of scale as it is, however they can look so COOL !!!!

Upon further examination, I'm pretty sure that you're right about the lack of a hatch.  I enlarged it a bit and what I thought was a hatch outline isn't...

As for the rest of the nose, I outlined the part of the nose here to highlight the fabricated nose portion that I think replaced the fiberglass section shown in the earlier shot of Barnes's Widow. In the top one, I'd almost swear that it's the nose from the B-model, but I can't be sure... It certainly does look longer than the "A" nose though...  But were it me, I'd use the "A" nose and just scribe the panel lines into it..

We are seeing the same thing then, good I was wanderin if my eyes were playin tricks on me or sumpthin. Now for the klinker, I cant figure any reason for General Barnes to have done that other than cosmetic reasons, I just cant see any structural reason. Maybe you have a thought or two on that matter. I do agree with you the bottom does look like the "A" raydome and the top picture is probally the "A" also, if you look at the angle the picture was taken from makes it look longer like the B nose. I set my B model at roughly the same angle and the nose looks 4 days longer than the one in the picture.

I like building these P-61s too much, wander if there isnt something wrong with me

I cant figure any reason for General Barnes to have done that other than cosmetic reasons, I just cant see any structural reason.

Pure speculation on my part, but several thing come to mind.. Although I agree that structurally there's no reason, there might be some flight characteristics to consider... With the long-range fuel cell installed in place of the turret, guns, and ammo, I'm guessing that there may have been some issues with the shifting of the aircraft's CoG as the fuel burned off, so the nose may have had ballast added, as I'm pretty sure the radar was removed from Barnes's Widow, considering he flew into enemy territory a lot...  Also, there may have been a decision by the Line Chief and Squadron Maintenance Officer to remove the fiberglass nose from it for use as a spare in case there was an operational aircraft in the 419th that needed one due to damage from a collapsed nose gear, battle damage, or the like.  I also figure, from personal experience, that the nose weighs practically nothing as I and another guy toted a B-25 nose across a hangar one day that had been removed earlier and the restoration crew was ready to install it.  It was about as heavy a cheap love-seat, and since a P-61 nose is smaller and has no plexi...

Now, on the Widow, the fiberglass nose was bolted on (I see too many guys build the thing opened up and on a "hinge" of some sort like on a modern jet fighter.  Uh-uh..) with only the cables from the pitot tube needing to be unhooked to completely remove it, so if the nose WAS used for stowage, it would need a hatch of some sort, and could very well be a simple screwed-on panel, rather than a piano-hinged, dzuze-fastened, factory-intall... 

Again though, this's pure conjecture on my part and I have no data to back anything up..

Hans sorry I havent been around in a couple of days. I would say your conjecturin and speculatin makes sence to me, especially the CG thoughts. Fuel is heavy and I would guess that old radar was quite heavy so what you say sounds very probable to me. Amazing I used to be a pilot ( private just the small stuff) and I never thought of the reason being a CG issue makes me feel well kinda , OH well DUH !!!!!! dummy LOL.

I closed the wings on my P-61 a couple of days ago and if I can get a few hours building this weekend I will add the vaines and post a picture or two. So far I think the intakes look pretty convincing. Its been a step up in scratch building for me I can tell ya.

My F-I-law owned two P-61s; Miss Billi 2 and Miss Billi 3. He earned a bronze star during the demise of B/3, after his bronze star while killing about 300 Germans in Miss Billi 1 (Beaufighter)

The deal on the Northrop was this. With all credit to Shep Paine and the famous engine change dio; In the ETO when the P-61 came in, there were not maintenance issues; these were like new cars, the R2800 was entirely reliable, the radar worked, you just did not mess with the bird. He was a coveted figure, a flying sergeant, and there was never a reason to tear down or rebuild any Widow. Remember, none were ever shot down. Perfect record.

Well I finally finished up the leading edge induction inlets last night. Heres the picture.

To me it seemd a huge improvement over the flat kit version of the inlets and not that much work to make them like this. I will be letting over spray  the o/d over gray tone down the yellow zinc chromate.

Seems like this group has died but I am still going to post here. So here are more WIP pictures.

The Widow has wings ! Cant believe how slow I am though. I dont really know what got into me at this point, but for my next P-61 project I need 2 of the kit cowlings. I had gotten my hands on an resin cowling but foil wont stick to that very well and it is so brittle that I thought better of trying to apply foil to the resin cowl. However I still want open cowl flaps on this build. So out came the Hammer in me along with saw in Hans, I went to work and heres what happened.

OH NO !! the cowling is cut off now, just ahead of the closed flaps sheesh. Now what ?

With knife in hand I champhered the parts for reassembly creating a grove for new open flaps and did a bit of filling.

All glued back on and sanded, doesnt look too bad.

I rummaged around the apartment in search of the next victim of my Hammer and knife, and found a blister pack that fit the bill. So in haste I cut out some cowl flaps and used ca glue to attach the new flaps. It came out pretty well I think and once painted will look good. I have to admit I was looking for a third kit just for the cowling, but was inspired by Mr Von Hammer to perform this surgery on my P-61 build.

Thanks for looking and comments are welcome as usual.

Randy, compared to my slow, you're lightning…

Nice work! 

Even though I'm not partaking in the build, I'm watching with interest...  I really need to kick m'self in the arse and finish that Widow Dio I started fro the Twin-engined Fighters GB...

Way to take the plunge, Vetteman!

Although, I am relatively new to this forum and I am not participating in this broup build, I have a link that is relevant and might be of interest to some. I have sevceral P-61's in my stash and will be building them eventually. I really want to build the Combat Models 1/32 vacuform kit someday!

The Mid Atlantic Air Museum recovered a P-61 in New Guinea and is in the process of restoring it to flying condition. They have many "in progress" pictures that would be of help, I believe, to modelers. I hope this link wasn't posted already. If so, forgive me as I may have missed it if it has been.

http://www.maam.org/p61/p61_rest.htm

bondoman wrote:

My Father-in-law flew in -61s and is a contributor to the Mid Atlantic restoration. I just bought two Dragon 1/72s, an A and a B from a collector the other day, going to research my subjects and build them, maybe early next year.

Thanks Triarius  In reality I think I spend too much time thinking about the build and not enough time building LOL. 

Hans Von Hammer Thanks it was a scary thing to do but it worked out well me thinks. Now for the .............

BPetty This build goes until December so jump in with your P-61 as I feel lonely here

Bondoman and Sf_plane_nut you guys are scarin me, I just won P-61 #4 off Ebay, 1 built 1 on the bench, and now 2 in the closet, all Revell Monogram 1/48s. I think that must have something to do with my lack of sanity ??

Well I got the booms on yesterday and got the lead glued into the nose today and the gear doors on. The dog wouldnt let me play with plastic too much topday she wanted to go to Doggis Disneyland, she won. Just a quick picture offered up for ya, still some filling to do though.

Got the P-61 primed the other day and am doing the P-61 fill,sand,prime,fill,sand,>>>>>>>>>>> thing. The wing to boom joints are makin me crazy this time, I have got to think of a better way to handle them.  Hope to have some pictures soon.

A safe and happy 4th to all, especially to our service members, both past and present. Thank you for giving us this day for so many years. 

I must be one sick puppy I tell ya. While waiting for the glue on the canopys to dry on this P-61 I went and pulled out "ANOTHER P-61" and started scribing the panel lines on the wings for one with an NMF, and figuring out a tool to do the rivets. I am thinking there is something terribly wrong with me. Oh and this morning I started making a vacuform table, these crystals are just wrong sheesh. Heres a pic of my first attempt at scribing, I think its a bit on the heavy side, a bit too wide. Comments help ya know

Hey guys time for some WIP pictures told ya I am a slow builder.

All ready for some paint masked and everything

First order fo business painted the canopy frames interior green and the no walk stripes. I think painting them is much easier than messing with the long narrow decals.

Masking for the no walk stripes is all ready to go.

I dont know what got into me but I decided to try some preshading I see some of the guys doing here. Needs a steady hand which mine dont seem to be.

A bit of grey for the lower side of the Widow. Didnt like the way my attempt at preshading worked so painted 2 coats to hide another of my wanderful ideas.

I use Tamiya acrylic paints and the Olive Drab is just too dark, so I lightened it with Tamiya white quite a bit. I am planning to use a darker wash of OD in selected aeras to bring out some detail and make the base coat look faded. Figured I could control it better as a wash instead of the airbrush. It is clear coated with future and I hope to get some decals on her tonight. I think my scratch made cowl flaps and induction ports look better than the kit parts so that worked out well for being one of my famous (read infamous) ideas. Thanks for the encouragement Hans Von Hammer Thanks for looking and as always comments are welcomed