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251 Halftracks GB 1 October '08 - 8 June '09

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Reno, NV
Posted by espins1 on Saturday, April 4, 2009 12:04 PM
Thanks for the tips Boyd! I'm going to print that out and keep it handy.

Mr. Surfacer can work great for tricky small seams. Just carefully apply Mr. Surfacer to the seam and let it dry. Then using q-tips get a little 91% Isopropyl alcohol (not saturated, might need to squeegie some of it out) then just gently rub away the excess leaving Mr. Surfacer only in the crack.

Scott Espin - IPMS Reno High Rollers  Geeked My Reviews 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Sunday, April 5, 2009 2:09 PM

Hey Scott (and anyone else working on an AFV 251),

Got another 'heads up' for you.  In step 15, installing the stowage boxes (U31 and U 32) behind the seatbacks in the troop compartment, be careful of the depth that the locating tracks have you set them at (same as with the rifle racks from earlier).  But here is the kicker - if you just install one side and test fit, it seems like you'll be able to get the upper hull down nice and tight, no problems.  HOWEVER, once you install the other side, you won't have enough clearance to get the upper hull on tight. 

I found that out at 2:23 this morning... Banged Head [banghead] (In reality, after my experience with the riflle racks, I kinda suspected it, so it was not nearly as 'bad' as I make it out to be...  still, if it saves someone else a headache...)

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 11:06 AM

Sigh [sigh]

Well, upon further review, maybe I shouldn't have put the radio in....

So, you all might recall how, despite saying I was not going to agonize over it, I spent a day or so debating if I should put the radio in my /4.  The AFV instructions for the /4 are just a supplement to the /1, with the different build steps illustrated.  So, I noticed that the radio was absent from the step on the /4 instructions, but shown on the /1.  Well, at first I thought it was an oversight and could think of no compelling reason why it should not be in there.

Last night I was reviewing the final couple of steps on both sets of instructions and on step 17, clear as a bell, on the /1 it shows installation of the antenna mount and antenna.  In the same step on the /4 - no antenna mount or antenna.  So now I wonder if it was not just an oversight - mayby, just MAYBE, AFV knows something that I don't.

Oh well, it ain't a show stopper...

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: n/w indiana
Posted by some assembly required on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 11:45 AM

thanks for the heads up bbrown3. im definately gonna keep this handy while i slug it out with my /7

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 11:49 AM
 bbrowniii wrote:

Sigh [sigh]

Well, upon further review, maybe I shouldn't have put the radio in....

So, you all might recall how, despite saying I was not going to agonize over it, I spent a day or so debating if I should put the radio in my /4.  The AFV instructions for the /4 are just a supplement to the /1, with the different build steps illustrated.  So, I noticed that the radio was absent from the step on the /4 instructions, but shown on the /1.  Well, at first I thought it was an oversight and could think of no compelling reason why it should not be in there.

Last night I was reviewing the final couple of steps on both sets of instructions and on step 17, clear as a bell, on the /1 it shows installation of the antenna mount and antenna.  In the same step on the /4 - no antenna mount or antenna.  So now I wonder if it was not just an oversight - mayby, just MAYBE, AFV knows something that I don't.

Oh well, it ain't a show stopper...

Heres a pic from the 251 site on page 1. It shows a possable  /4 Ausf D with an antenna mount. Though of cause it could just be a /1 carry ammo. I don't have any of my referance at hand so i can't have a look, but i see not reason why a /4 would not have a radio, surley the crew would need to talk to the guys calling in the fire.

http://www.pietvanhees.nl/251/

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 12:44 PM
 Bish wrote:
 bbrowniii wrote:

Sigh [sigh]

Well, upon further review, maybe I shouldn't have put the radio in....

So, you all might recall how, despite saying I was not going to agonize over it, I spent a day or so debating if I should put the radio in my /4.  The AFV instructions for the /4 are just a supplement to the /1, with the different build steps illustrated.  So, I noticed that the radio was absent from the step on the /4 instructions, but shown on the /1.  Well, at first I thought it was an oversight and could think of no compelling reason why it should not be in there.

Last night I was reviewing the final couple of steps on both sets of instructions and on step 17, clear as a bell, on the /1 it shows installation of the antenna mount and antenna.  In the same step on the /4 - no antenna mount or antenna.  So now I wonder if it was not just an oversight - mayby, just MAYBE, AFV knows something that I don't.

Oh well, it ain't a show stopper...

Heres a pic from the 251 site on page 1. It shows a possable  /4 Ausf D with an antenna mount. Though of cause it could just be a /1 carry ammo. I don't have any of my referance at hand so i can't have a look, but i see not reason why a /4 would not have a radio, surley the crew would need to talk to the guys calling in the fire.

http://www.pietvanhees.nl/251/

Hey Bish,

Thanks man!  Cheered my right up.

I don't know why I'm spending so much time talking about the radio... must wanna jack my post count up or something... Evil [}:)]

Seriously though, like I originally said when I first brought it up, I was struck be their ommission - and with the later ommissions of the antenna, I suspect it was intentional, but can't imagine why...  Oh well, my radio is already in, so it is an academic point.  HOWEVER, if any of y'all are intending to build a /4 in the future.... Whistling [:-^] Laugh [(-D]

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 1:28 PM
It's deffinatly soemthing i am going to look into. I know it's to late for you now, but if i was in any doubt i would fit it. But as you know i have the same kit as you so i would like to know for sure. But it just doesn't make sense not to have a radio, after all, fitting radio's in vehicles was one thing the Germans took a lead in.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 1:32 PM
We gonna get a pic of this brute Boyd? I know SMJ owes us a "where I'm at" photo as well...hehe. Wink [;)]
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 1:47 PM

dupes Sent you a PM yesterday, not sure if you have seen it.

And would deffo like to see a pic of the /4.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 1:51 PM
Yes sir I did! Am sitting at the coffeehouse right now poaching some good internet...will host that here shortly and PM you the link. Wink [;)]Thumbs Up [tup]
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 1:53 PM

Thanks. I know its a bit awkward for you getting online, so its appreciated.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 2:12 PM
No problemo, sir. Sorry for the delay! Check your inbox. Wink [;)]Thumbs Up [tup]
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 2:49 PM

 dupes wrote:
We gonna get a pic of this brute Boyd? I know SMJ owes us a "where I'm at" photo as well...hehe. Wink [;)]

Yeah, I'll get a pic up soon.  Most likely on Friday when I can get some good natural light down in the basement.  I also hope to have at least one track run finished by then.  They are  abit of a PITA with all the cleaning they need...

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: NJ
Posted by JMart on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 4:10 PM

I am glad my AFV will follow yours! I have lots of work and Homework in front of me! Yes,I will be done on time... semester is over in 2 weeks basically, then have a ton of free time and I DO need the time off...work killed me this year....

I use Mr Surfacer for small seams... one thing to keep in mind is that it shrinks a bit, you may have to "top it off" after a few hours or next day, specially sink holes. I also learned to have one brush JUST for MrS, and to 'dab" it rather than "paint it".

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Wednesday, April 8, 2009 8:03 AM

Alright team! Today's the day, exactly two months left to crank out some 251-style goodness. For those of you who are fans of procrastination (or in too many GB's!), it's time to get cracking on these beasts.

I know I did a check-in around the first of the year and got responses from everybody, but that was almost three months ago. If there's anyone who has NOT started their build yet, and doesn't think they'll be able to, let me know, and I'll make an attempt to find some eager builders over in the armor forum to replace them. I would prefer to keep everyone who's been here all along around, but if it just won't fly we'll do what we can. Wink [;)]

I'll be crawling around in my box later today getting sprues galore unwrapped, and maybe even squeeze in a bit of suspension work. Cool [8D]

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: n/w indiana
Posted by some assembly required on Wednesday, April 8, 2009 11:05 AM
im still in here boss,ive put the control arms on the lower hull and have the front suspension built and installed. the road wheels are cleaned up and everything is in a coat of walmart rattle can black primer. i believe im gonna put it in the standard panzer grey. ive got some PE masks im gonna try for the first time, so wish me luck !!

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: N.H.
Posted by panzerguy on Wednesday, April 8, 2009 4:15 PM

   Got some work in on the /22, free time has been a little scarce lately.

  Finished off the pe in the interior. I added some detail to the rear doors by cutting out the molded springs on the latching mechanisms and replacing them with ones made from scratch.

 

 

 Started on the pak and everything was going okay till it came time to build the shield. Took me forever to get the two halves to line up.

   Still haven't gotten to the tool clamps but this weekend looks free.

"Happiness is a belt fed weapon"

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Wednesday, April 8, 2009 6:10 PM
Nice work, Panzerguy.  I'm sure the question has been asked, but I'll ask it again - any ideas what kind of scheme your going to put on this thing?

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: N.H.
Posted by panzerguy on Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:34 PM

  Thanks Boyd.Big Smile [:D]

  It's going to be a hard edge three-tone pattern with a white wash over it.

   I'm building it as one of the four that were with the Fuhrer Begleit Brigade at the end of the Battle of the Bulge near the town of Tillet.   

 

"Happiness is a belt fed weapon"

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Wednesday, April 8, 2009 9:05 PM
 panzerguy wrote:

  Thanks Boyd.Big Smile [:D]

  It's going to be a hard edge three-tone pattern with a white wash over it.

   I'm building it as one of the four that were with the Fuhrer Begleit Brigade at the end of the Battle of the Bulge near the town of Tillet.   

Hey there now, Steve, I think you forgot something in that description, my friend.  Here, let me help you out:

'I'm building it as one of the four that were with the Fuhrer Begleit Brigade at the end of the Battle of the Bulge near the town of Tillet, and it will take gold at AMPSEast this September'

No pressure or anything... Big Smile [:D]

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:07 AM

Ahhhh...Boyd, you kill me. Laugh [(-D]

Steve - looks pretty awesome so far! Did you glue the shields, or end up soldering them?

Some Assembly Required - got time to shoot a pic for us? Approve [^]

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: N.H.
Posted by panzerguy on Thursday, April 9, 2009 5:12 PM

   Boyd oh yeah absolutely no pressure at allBanged Head [banghead]

   Dupes thanks man. There is no way to solder them I had to use CA glue.

"Happiness is a belt fed weapon"

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Friday, April 10, 2009 8:53 AM

 panzerguy wrote:
   I'm building it as one of the four that were with the Fuhrer Begleit Brigade at the end of the Battle of the Bulge near the town of Tillet.    

Steve - what sort of references do you have about these vehicles, or the brigade in general? 

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: N.H.
Posted by panzerguy on Friday, April 10, 2009 11:09 AM
 dupes wrote:

Steve - what sort of references do you have about these vehicles, or the brigade in general? 

   Dupes from what I've read six /21 and four /22 were in route to them as of Dec30

 Unfortunately I can't find any pics of the actual vehicles. I've only found written accounts so far of their part in the bulge.I've seen a few pics of the Brgd's stug's and Mk IV's.     

  The brigade was a part of the Grossdeutschland Pnz Grndr Div. And along with the Fuhrer Grenadier Brigade, which was also part of GD, were sent west to participate in the Ardennes offensive.                     

   Two of the American units that they went up against were the 101st outside Bastogne and later at Tillet the 761 ‘Black Panthers' tank battalion.

   The refs I used were Panzer Grenadier Div. Grossdeutschland by Horst Sheibert, Axis History Fact Book and Wikipedia.  

"Happiness is a belt fed weapon"

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Friday, April 10, 2009 2:23 PM
Interesting. Bummer about the lack of actual vehicle pics, but I think it's cool that you're modeling a specific 'track...gives it a neat sense of historical perspective when you know a bit about what you're trying to replicate.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Friday, April 10, 2009 11:27 PM

Hey Fellas

Got a couple more suggestions for all you AFV 251 builders, as a result of my ongoing build of the /4.  I know I said I'd have pics up today - but I didn't take any yet and I am too tired to do it now... sorry Zzz [zzz]

OK, two little nuggets for y'all:

First, the tracks:

If you have a set of the AFV indy links (they came with my kit, but I also see them sold as aftermarkets for most of their other 251s), they would have you construct them by first attaching the rubber block, then snapping the link into place on the adjoining track-link.  The locating pins that enable the tracks to articulate are supposed to spread open enough to pop over the next track, then pop into the slots they lock in.  Well, if you wanna follow the instructions, go ahead, but I busted my first six links trying to do it that way.  I found the 'neck' of the link, where the two arms (with the locating pins) join the 'body' of the link is too weak to expand that much.  Instead, I ended up building a simple little jig: I took two paint stirrer that I had from Home Depot.  I seperated them by breaking a Starbucks coffee stirrer in half and glueing one piece at either end (the coffee stirrer was glued 'on its side' so the gap between the two paint stirrers is pretty narrow.  That gave me a gap to put the drive teeth for the links into so I could lay them flat, with the slots for the locating pins pointed up - it was then easy to slide the pins into the slots on the adjoining track and then attack the rubber block.

One other note on the indy-links - I found that their attachment points between the body of the link and the sprue is pretty narrow - it was almost impossible to get the tips of my sprue cutters in there.  When I did, the pressure of cutting them often resulted in them bending and snapping (scratch another 4 links - dammit!! Banged Head [banghead]).  I ended up just using my x-acto knife and kind of hacked them off the sprue, leaving a pretty big attachment point plug to clean up - it was a little more labor intensive, but at least I didn't break any more links.

The links themselves are OK.  No matter how you do it, there will be a good bit of clean up around the attachment points, plus a sinkhole on either side of each link, next to the sprocket tooth.

Second, the fenders:

Step 15 of the instructions has you attach the three tool/storage boxes on each fender before you attach the fender to the vehicle.  I got it in my head to do that, then figured I could do a base coat on the underside of the fender with it off the vehicle to make it easier to get at all the nooks and crannies.  Well, that turned out to be a dumb idea.  It is impractical to paint it off the vehicle, because I suspect attaching it to the hull will wreck whatever painting I might have done.  Allow me to explain:

After I attached the three boxes, I noticed just how much my fenders are bent.  I was not too worried, figuring the mounting tabs would help with alignment.  No such luck.  What I have found is that my attachment tabs either don't quite line up with the slot they are supposed to fit into, or if the do line up, they are not really long enough to make significant contact.  Additionally, if I mount the fenders as the locating tabs would have me, they will remain bent, which means the three boxes overlap one another at their tops.  In addition, if I mount with the tabs, the fender sits at an inaccurate angle, so the boxes don't contact the hull at the top.

The moral of this story is to give some serious consideration to how you want to attach the boxes and the fenders.  I am not convinced I would have done it differently, but I certainly should have been a little more careful with my dry fitting (once again, there it is!) before I glued those boxes on.  The problem is that, at least on the C hull, I don't think there is clearance to get the boxes onto the fenders after the fenders are attached to the hull.  The fix to this is pretty straight forward, but it'll be time consuming - I'm going to have to glue the fenders on about 1 - 1.5 cm at a time, trying to ensure proper alignment and holding everthing in place until all the glue dries.

As always, I hope this helps...

Hey Dupes: I thought of you today when a pack of about 20 - 25 cyclists cruised by me in a pretty sweeeeeeeeeeeeet paceline.  They were truckin' right along...

Roads clear up there yet?

 

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, April 11, 2009 3:34 AM
Thanks again bbrowniii all these pointers will help alot. These AFV kits, the Ausf C's anyway, sound a bit of a pain in the backside.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Saturday, April 11, 2009 11:31 AM
 bbrowniii wrote:

Hey Dupes: I thought of you today when a pack of about 20 - 25 cyclists cruised by me in a pretty sweeeeeeeeeeeeet paceline.  They were truckin' right along...

Roads clear up there yet?

I don't know if I would call them "clear", exactly, but I've been out on my bike. Wink [;)]

Did a pretty speedy roll yesterday (well, speedy for pre-season riding, anyway). Big Smile [:D]

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Queensbury,NY
Posted by panzer88 on Saturday, April 11, 2009 4:25 PM

Keep those 251's coming guys, they're all looking great. Well I know that I posted some finished pics already, but I just wasn't happy with the grossly out of scale antennae. So after a few experiments I finally have success. I think that this looks a lot better.

     

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: N.H.
Posted by panzerguy on Saturday, April 11, 2009 9:17 PM

   David, that's one fine piece of work. Saw the pics over in armor also. Nice job on the generator and the cammo.

   Man I've got to step it up on my /22 every time I get setteled in at the bench a new emergency pops up. Today I had to rescue my son and his girlfriend when his truck broke down. But tonight when everyones asleep I'm pulling an all nighter.

 

"Happiness is a belt fed weapon"

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