M1 Abrams wreck-finally done

newarmorman wrote:

Got my point across didn't I? Blown up is blown up Right! I only hope its never your son or your family! I think, you all will think differently then. A friend is one thing, your own child or parent is another! Semper FI to you also my friend. I was not insulting you or your build ! My name isn't Newarmorman for nothing!

Many of the builders here and elsewhere have served or are currently serving in the military, have family members who have served or are serving, or know friends who have served or are serving. I understand and respect where you are coming from but emotional posts and rants do a disservice to your position, especially when they demean others or accuse them of being insensitive and unable to relate to your particular feelings because they admire the skill and attention to detail on a particular member's efforts. The posts in this thread comment on the ability of Rob (who has served himself) to accurately replicate an actual physical wreck of an M1 with only photos to guide him, something that is not easily done and requires the application of many, many advanced techniques to pull off convincingly. They do not glorify the death or destruction of war in any capacity and it certainly doesn't dishonor the memory or service of our men and women in uniform.

As mentioned by others, this is a hobby and the forum is here to promote that hobby, not a place to argue the politics of war or politics in general. Your apology is accepted and I hope you will continue to participate in a civil way in the forum.

"WAR IS STUPID"!! hmmm...yes sir you got your point across!! im not going to belittle you or take jabs at you sir...that's not going to solve anything! what i will say is, as a desert storm army veteran, what i noticed more than anything else is war is inevitable. so long as there are human beings there will be war. as long as humans have existed there has been war. one guy doesnt like the other guy...one guy doesnt like the other guys religion...one guy doesnt like the other guys skin color...one guy doesnt like the other guy's technology...one guy is jealous of the other guys money...blah blah blah!! thousands and thousands of years!! you and your rant isnt going to stop it or make a change because u have no power to control human behavior! peace love and harmony would be fantastic but reality is what it is!!

when i left to war, i never talked to or wrote my mother...i knew she would flip out and worry beyond any normal sane parent would (sound familiar). i am her child...I signed the paper work that said one day i may have to defend my country...not her, not her emotions not her sanity. your son did the same thing as did your grandfather etc. THEY chose to or were drafted to and that's just the way it is! NO ONE is glorifying the fact that people die or are maimed but everyone, whether they have a child in harms way or not, understands the dangers, the heartache of possibly losing their lives/childrens lives in battle...no matter how needless or pointless it may be!! perhaps modeling will help you cope, as it does so many others, (including myself) from the horrors of war and maybe, rather than starting another war within this thread or forum, we can set examples of humanity right here and "live in peace"!!! just my

Semper Fi Dan

I knew this would be a touchy subject when I started it. I too had mixed feelings about it, but it is reallity and cannot be avoided, unfortunitly. I built mainly WWII German armor and have recently crossed over to modern stuff. No one has ever complained about the german wrecks I've built, not even when I lived in Germany. I do agree that war is stupid and nothing good comes from it. 

I will continue to build wrecks regardless, and hope I do not offend anyone else, but this side of war must also be shown.

Chris and Disaster thanks for the back up and understanding.

Jesse a very good point and model thank you.

Rob

Newarmorman,

So I guess this model must really burn you up:

It's a model of the sunken USS Arizona at the Arizona Memorial.  There's 1177 men still interred in that ship.  I don't hear WWII veterans bemoaning the model.  Why was that model made?  To honor the men and educate people.  And that's way many of us make models in the first place, to honor our men.

If looking at military models makes you this upset, I suggest for your health, you find something else to occupy your time.

-Jesse

 

Dan,

 This is where we go to relax and pursue an interest, not insult or demean veterans (or each other for that matter). You've been here 8 days now and if you've noticed it isn't a place to go blow off. We don't need that.

 The first subject below is 2 dimensional, requires just a moment and a decent camera. Rob may have posted it but he didn't take the initial picture. Most likely the photographer was a GI and apparently, he didn't have a problem with it.

The second image is 3 dimensional and requires a tremendous bit of time and a unique talent.

Other than that (out of curiosity) what's the difference between this

and  this.....

There are many people who do not realize the reality of what is going on over there.

This build is a very convincincing 3D example of the reality many of them will never see.

I see no dishonor in this build.

This concludes my input on this subject.

Apology accepted.

Hey,

Got my point across didn't I? Blown up is blown up Right! I only hope its never your son or your family! I think, you all will think differently then. A friend is one thing, your own child or parent is another! Semper FI to you also my friend. I was not insulting you or your build ! My name isn't Newarmorman for nothing! I spent 6 weeks in Okinawa, helping my son get his head straight after 3 of his buddies were killed while taking Baghdad! Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. I only want people to think about what we are doing, and will do, not to mention what we should have done! Do not try to tell me not to look if I don't like what I see, as you are the one that posted it for everyone to see!
The point is Army/Marine? We all need to take a look at WAR and at some point, " SAY NO"! WAR IS STUPID! Figure it out. Nobody wins at war, except politicians, and big business. We all know war is good for the economy? Huh? Well if I hurt your feelings I am truly sorry! I love and admire armor and those that model it, because armor is probably the only common sense solution to the inevitable. Button up and hope the hell you survive! But pick up a weapon and look your enemy (?) in the eye and pull the trigger, thats reality, son! Check out our streets, video games.....its OK, Kill, its just a game!!!
Enough with my diatribe, I really love and honor our boys! I just don't want to see it trivialized! I too like your build, its great, and looks really good!
To all of you that reacted to my reply, thanks! You really do show that you care about what we do. We memorialize history. History stinks and we are doomed to relive it if we don't take a different path! I am sure that all of you have been touched somehow by the ravages of war. Maybe someday we will do something about it, we need to love each other, not kill each other!

If I insulted anybody, I am sorry!

Newarmorman

He's also done two enemy T55 tanks blown up, abandoned and burned. That’s the whole idea, the people that dig IEDs are people too, we kill they kill, what’s the difference. You’ll notice 90% of armor builds are WWII Nazi vehicles, not often do people accuse the builders of being pro Nazi anti-patriots. At no point did scratchmod say he was modeling a knocked out tank, just a wreck, as you and plenty of others previously pointed out in this thread, most KO M1s were KOed by their own crew. Yes we did lose men, but we took a lot with us, and if we’re going to model war, we’re going to model war. If that includes all aspects and that’s not PC enough for you, then as said- you don’t have to look. The only reason I’m replying is because I feel you addressed not just scratchmod, but everyone following this thread. I simply wanted to reply to tell you that while I understand where you are coming from, I think you stepped over the line. No one is laughing and throwing a party over dead US soldiers. Plenty of dio’s including WWII dios have casualties and KOed vehicles. If it’s a Panzer IV with a dead crew how is that any different than a Sherman with a dead crew?
I understand why you model what you model, and I wish you good luck on finding resin IED clearing vehicles to honor your son, but that’s your thing, scratchmod’s going to do what he has to do, and the fact that I feel he’s doing it with expertise, he really is honoring the memory of that 1:35 M1, by wrecking it right, to the best of his ability, and showing the horrors of war.
I’ll admit, with my own building, I’m more likely to build wounded/dead/injured US soldiers and damaged equipment from WWII than Vietnam, Vietnam more so than anything modern. Time doesn’t heal quickly, and some things never heal. I read a model contest entry form and they were giving examples of dioramas that would have to go behind a mature audience screen. And one example was if someone modeled a Nazi Concentration Camp. I couldn’t believe that. Some things I think, even if you can, you shouldn’t. While this M1 falls into that category for you, I’m sorry I don’t feel the same.

Wow Dude if you don't like my model then don't look. This is a good wake up call for people to see that this does happen wether we like it or no. I'm sorry to hear about the fellow marines in your family, Semper Fi.

I was there too you know, and lost a couplle of friends in Iraq, best friend is going AGAIN for the fifth time, oh and so is my nieghbor(3rd time). I did 8 years in the military ( USMC,ARMY) I signed the paper like everyone else. War sucks and this one was not needed had we been able to do our jobs the first time.

 What's the difference if I build a tank destroyed or not? Either way a tank kills and destroys. You honor your way and I do my way. Atleast my bad dreams are slowely going away when I build wrecks.

Sorry if it offends you, but ike I said don't look if it offends. And please no insults Ok

 

Rob

semper Fi 

 

My son and several of his friends (fifth generation, Marines & Army) have been to Iraq and Afghanistan 8 times, my son is leaving in a few days for the 3rd time!! I can assure you! We only lost 1 M1 to enemy fire, however if damaged and the boys were under fire! It is always chosen to destroy the remaining hulk than to tow it back or work on it in place, than to risk any American lives!
As an example one Abrams was hit 160 times including 40+ RPG's and kept on rolling, but the damage put our boys at risk! It was decided to burn it in place, rather than tow it back and take a risk for nothing. It honored our men, burned in place! I hate that you all get a kick out of burned out tanks. First they don't burn by themselves, second, if its ours, it might have burned for a reason!!!! Our boy's are over there! Do you care? No.... I think it will be great to see your build!!!!?????!!!!!???? What is wrong with all of you? Our M4's burned to! They were called Ronson's it will be neat to see the build!!!!! ????? OUR BOY's DIED..... Wake UP! OUR BOYS! YOUR BOY'S! OUR MEN! Are there any parents out there? Would it be cool to see the build of the burned out tank your child died in????? NO I Think NOT, but would someone please check the accuracy of that serial number, because we wouldn't want to make a mistake, or screw up the accuracy of the build!!!!! What a bunch if moron's!!?!! War is fun!! People die!!! The pictures are neat!!!??? I hope you, or your child/ children never die in one, but if so, please get pictures for accuracy, because we wouldn't want to model it wrong!!!! OOOOOOOKKKKKKK?????

Newarmorman

P.S.

I Model for the honor and fun of putting together pieces of plastic well, so the image of the real thing can honor and respect the memory of the thousands killed needlessly. I am a parent praying for a fifth generation Marine (my son)! I lost my big brother, and my family has sacrificed over 100 years to protect our nation and what it stands for! But could we who research and build our machines, and theirs, Please.... take pause to think! Somewhere out there is a family, a mother, a father, or otherwise,...... that died for that machine. Either to design it, build it, drive it, or die in it, and because of our stupidity, someone out there is crying right now, or has in the past, or will be in the future. Countless people have died at or in war, and countless more have cried and continue to cry!
I was just 12 years old when I found out I would never be able to hug or play with my big brother again! ( KIA, third tour, Viet Nam), I put up with the barbs and jokes, because my dad walked funny! ( Lost his left leg, Korea). How come your Grandpa needs a wheelchair and sometimes falls out of it and writhes around on the ground? ( Paralyzed, shot in the back, by a Japanese officer on Corrigidor! the writhing around, Malaria, just a bonus! after the starvation!) Now my son is leaving for his third tour to the middle East. This time to Afghanistan, his assignment will be to build a base, to help defend the villagers against insurgents and terrorists that take their crops or profits from them to buy weapons to kill us in our own country or around the world!! Oh by the way,....... the crops?....... Marijuana and Poppies, go figure!?!

I agree about destroyed/burnt-out vehicles being the hardest to do right, but I think one of the things that really does it for me is the ash from the rubber and the items in the rack- very well done sir, even if it is a modern US MBT.

That is top notch work...modeling destroyed and burnt-out vehicles is probably the most difficult type of build to master and yours is as good as the best I've seen...some of the pics are a little dark...5 stars...

stikpusher wrote:

Your work is superb here. On a personal note I will say I hate seeing KO'd modern US stuff- but that is just an emotional gut reaction. Your achievment in scale modeling here though is to be held in the highest regard.

also !!! nice thing is 90% can be rebuilt!!

OH MAN you've gone and done it again. Outstanding            

Tony the Mutt

stikpusher wrote:

Your work is superb here. On a personal note I will say I hate seeing KO'd modern US stuff- but that is just an emotional gut reaction. Your achievment in scale modeling here though is to be held in the highest regard.

A misspelled emoticon from me. Tough to look at, but mostly because it looks so darned real.  Photorealism from you, sir, kudos on your technique.

Bill

Your work is superb here. On a personal note I will say I hate seeing KO'd modern US stuff- but that is just an emotional gut reaction. Your achievment in scale modeling here though is to be held in the highest regard.

Disastrously done!

EXCELLENT!

Wicked cool!  I hate seeing a beautiful tank reduced to ash, but you sure did a wonderful job at making it realistic looking!

Brian

That is very cool scratchmod! It is really cool to see wrecks built and your's looks like the real deal. Nicely done!

Gents, thanks for the kind words and for following this build even though I had to shelve it for a few weeks. I'm calling this build done, I just have to paint the lights and that's about it. This was a fun project and a good first step in the modern armor area, which is new to me.

Warning lots of pics.

Well, what do you modern guys think of my Abrams.

 

Rob

Rob, what can I say, that looks as if its out there in a class of its own, just brilliant.

Terry.

anytime

Ok thanks for your help i realy needed help.

vector123 wrote:

Hey the M1 Abrams tank has depleted uranium armor.  Does anybody know if its the only tank with it?  Please anyone i need help QUICK!

the british challenger uses that same or extremely similiar armor...i also want to say the german lepard does as well but dont quote me on that one!

Almost there Rob and you've achieved a very convincing look. Top notch as always.

Hey the M1 Abrams tank has depleted uranium armor.  Does anybody know if its the only tank with it?  Please anyone i need help QUICK!

scratch...i love it...just one question? do you have pics with the road wheels looking like that? reason i ask is that all the "burnt out" abrams i've seen the aluminum wheels have melted! dont ask me how you could duplicate that i know i couldnt. i have many t-72 pics with their road wheels like ya got them. i dont know sir, not trying to be one of those "nay-sayers". looks great and is better than anything i could do!!

I finally did some work on this project after shelving it for a while. the tracks sre some what painted and mounted to the roadwheels. I made a simple base for this wreck, using a picture frame, styrofoam and some sand. The base paint and wash has been applied to the base, dry brushing to follow. Here is how it looks so far.

Sorry about the bad lighting, the final pics will be taken with a better camara ( the wife's) and better lighting. I should be able to finish this project off today or in the morning. I still have to add ash and molten Aluminum to the bottom of the wheels/tracks.

I will post the finished pics of this wreck as soon as she's done.

 

Rob

Guys thanks for the motivation, I was starting to get bored with this build and spent the last two days working on T55's instead. I'll have to put those away until the M1 is done.

@ Bill..I doubt that I will keep this one, It's only a practice model. The next M1 that I do will be from a Dragon kit with a lot more oxidation, I have a couple of ref. pics of such a tank.

I have to get a base or picture frame for this model, then start the ground work before I can go to town on the tracks and roadwheels. I'll try to post up dates as she moves along.

 

Rob

Missed the last round of updates but glad I caught this one Rob...the burnt-out/oxidized effects are looking great. Going to be another fine wreck to add to your shelf.

Now that is some skill with paint it's very convincing effect this will be one to watch to see the final complete build.