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Resurrected WIP.... M60A1 w/M9 Dozer....Call'n it DONE

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  • Member since
    June 2009
Posted by M60Tanker on Saturday, June 27, 2009 9:13 PM

Rob - thanks for the link to the M-48 AVLB kit.  I found another company (A.E.F. Designs - http://www.aefdesigns.com/aefcat.html ) who used to make a M60 AVLB conversion kit, so maybe one will show up on ebay.  They presently have conversion kits for the CEV and the -A2, if anybody's interested.  Tamiya used to make a kit for the A2, but I don't think it was around much longer than the real thing! 

Interesting info on how y'all came up with a solution to raise the blades.  As I've been thinking about it, I think I do remember the lines running under tank.  Seems to me, in rocky terrain that could be a potential problem.  If my memory serves me correctly, the driver had to lean out of his hatch and pull a D-ring handle to unlock the blade.  Does anybody else remember that?

 I've always been intrigued about how the Army keeps reflagging units.  I gather it's got something to do with lineage/history, honors, etc. 

7377Tanker - Our times in 3ID had quite a bit of overlap.  I arrived in A-burg (4/64) in May of 72, spent a couple years there; then got exiled [after a disagreement with the new Bn Cdr] to 3/64 in Schweinfurt where I spent another 15 or so months.  It's interesting 1/64 had blade tanks.  We didn't have them in either 4/64 or 3/64; and I don't believe 2/64 had them either, though I'm not totally sure.  Being closer to the border, maybe y'all had an additional mission?

I remember the yellow hydraulic fluid - they came with RISE tanks we got at Polk.  Seems like the "cherry juice" was back within a year. 

You're right - there was some brown and a little green in the camo pattern.  The green we used was more of a true green than OD.  The 4/64 took at least four or five people from each of the five Companies and created an assembly line to paint the BNs vehicles.  The first team chalked the pattern, and as soon as they moved to the next vehicle a team with brushes would start applying the first color.  They ran two 12-hour shifts.  The rush job was supposedly because we'd been placed on alert for deployment to the Middle East, but the war was over before we moved out of A-burg.  Interestingly, the two Infantry BNs (remainder of 3rd BDE) across the strasse did not go to camo.  Because they were brush painted, lines between colors would [obviously] be fairly sharp on a model as opposed to the later spray painted patterns.

We went to Graf twice a year - once in January/February for qualification and once in July (always there on my birthday!) for practice.  We only went to Hohenfels for manuever training (even when I was with 3AD (77-78)), although I know other units did fire there.  I only went down Range 80 once as a gunner (1973) - I screwed up on the day run, but pretty much maxed the night run to pull out a qualifying score.  The other times I went down as a TC.  When I rotated back in '77, Range 80 was Platoon qualification, and Range 42 was individual qualification (or was it 45?).  1978 was the last time I saw either place as I got out in time for Christmas, got a degree and went to work for Club Fed (DoD).

On a different note - one of the diorama's I want to build is an M88 pulling a pack (engine & transmission) out of a M60A1.  However, I can't remember for sure what the sling looked like (must be an age thing!).  I think it was basically an aluminum I-Beam with two cables at each end to hook to the pack.  Any help would be appreciated.

BTW Top - nice job - can't wait to see the finished model!

Andy

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:51 AM

Run, very fast, away from anything made by AEF Designs. I quote a fellow modeler on the Missing Lynx website, "they got their bad reputation the old fashioned way, by mistreating customers and producing poor products."

I have some photos of the newer M1 pack sling, similar, but different from the one we used on M88/M60 tanks.

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Michigan
Posted by ps1scw on Sunday, June 28, 2009 12:35 PM
Has anyone ever put out a book detailing cold war period units, vehicle types and camo patterns/colors?
  • Member since
    June 2009
Posted by Guney on Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:30 PM
I'll be watching this wonderful pruject..Good luck for the rest....:)
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: NE Massachusetts
Posted by 1SG Davis on Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:50 PM

Got a little more done here,  the hull is all one color now.    

DSCN0451.jpg picture by 1SGDavis

After several paint blob tests I went with suggestion the Spamicus & Stikpusher made.         Model Master  Acryl   Green Drab with a little flat black mixed in is the color you see.  The Army helo drab is a dead ringer for a tank just out of the paint shop but a little too dark for what I was looking for.

DSCN0453.jpg picture by 1SGDavis

Here's a close up of I trick I learned on this site that worked out good for me (I think).  Between the two shocks is a suspension component (not sure what it's called) with three plates that weld to the hull.  There were large gaps between the plates & hull.  I took some white glue with a tooth pick and filled them in, waited for it to dry and then reapplied until it was flush with the welds molded into the hull.  After the painting I think it came out quite well.

 

DSCN0456.jpg picture by 1SGDavis

That's how she sits now.  I currently am working on the AFV chevron tracks (have one side built) I'm also busy scuffing & gouging the road wheels to simulate wear.  My next update should show a finished lower hull w/blade attached, after that its on to the turret.

 M60 tanker & 7377 tanker: Fantastic historical info from two that were there and rolled down the tank trail in the 1:1 scale of my build.  I've cut & paste both of your posts and saved them for later use.  Also great to see your new to the forum, Welcome!!  Don't wait too long to post some builds!

Rob: Thanks again for the continued input.  I too concur on your advice w/AEF designs.  My wife spent three weeks last Nov trying to get them to pick up the phone to order a slick 60 turret for my x-mas present and never talked to anyone.  One call & 10 minutes w/CMD and it was on the way.

PS1SCW: Never seen a book like that, definitely would be helpful though when I go to put some bumper #'s etc. on this build.

Guney: Thanks for the kind words, should have another update after this one late in the week.

 

That's all for now, thanks for lookin' in

Gary / 1SG

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Monday, June 29, 2009 4:25 AM

Gary - Moving along....nice shade of green...then again I am partial to any OD Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    June 2009
Posted by 7377Tanker on Monday, June 29, 2009 2:14 PM

M60 tanker

 You are correct about the D-ring needing to be released to unlock the Blade. You would need to reach out from the drivers position to engage. The dozer tank did not get very much use. Ocassionally we would take it out to Closter Forest (out rear gate at Kitizgen) to practice making defalade positions. The blade was constantly breaking down and inoperable part of the time, repair parts were hard to get. When we went to Graf we loaded onto flatbed railcars for the two day long trip. It was always fun to load the tanks, part of the track hung over the side. We would chalk block and use tie downs to secure tank to flatbed. Maybe some day I will create a diorama of tank on Flatbed train.  The 1/64 also had one M60 ALVB, but it was unoperable most of the time.

Each Tank crew chalked their own tank and did the painting. We were in the 2nd BDE and the 1/15 Infantry barracks (Audie Murphy company) was next to ours. Their Camo pattern was same of ours.

Even though in the same division, we rarely had direct training with our other sister battallions. We did use to train in another spot call Wildflecken. It was a small area, big enough to run a platoon at a time. Remember there was an old Flack Tower full of bullet holes and a lot of bomb crators. I know they expanded the training area years after I left Germany. I Remember digging fox holes and finding a lot of spent cartridges and spent small arms shells.

Wish I could remember the range numbers, it been awhile. We never had platoon gunnery qualifications, only individual.  Never went down as a Tank Commander. The company Captains always wanted me as his gunner on Command tank to ensure their qualifications. That was besides being a gunner on my primary tank and would be a loader on a third. We seemed to be always short staffed.

 

  • Member since
    June 2009
Posted by M60Tanker on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:51 PM

Rob/Gary - Thanks for the advice on A.E.F. Designs.  I've unexpectedly been out of the loop for the past couple weeks so didn't get a chance to say thanks earlier.  I'm just getting back into semi-serious armor modeling after a number of years hiatus, so I'm really interested in hearing of everybody's experiences, recommendations, and techniques.  Which leads to....

Gary - I keep going back to the bottom picture you posted on 6/22, and the middle one on 6/29.  How did you get copper wire to cooperate like that?  I've never been able to get copper wiring that straight!  Or curve that well!  Great job!

I did a little rumaging through my photos and intended to post some photos from my days with 3/64 which show the flatcar overhang 7377Tanker mentioned, a little bit of the camo pattern we used (which was different from 4/64, but probably close to 1/64), and show the front markings.  Unfortunately Photoshop Elements and my scanner are not talking to each other right now, so I'll post when I get that resolved - if anybody's interested.  Somewhere I've got photos of 4/64, but they're probably in storage along with my M60 TMs and, I seem to remember, an Army pub on camo patterns. 

More shortly (hopefully)

Andy 

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: NE Massachusetts
Posted by 1SG Davis on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 7:27 PM

First off, Thanks all for the input on restarting this thread.  I was a little unsure about restarting it. 

After eight months in a box on my bench I've finally gotten back to this project.  Last June the Army promoted me and then 2 hours later I got a phone call letting me know my new unit was mobilizing me.  It's been very busy to say the least.  Most of my free time internet access has been on restricted networks,  when I could get to this site it was read only with no pictures  Sad

Anyway,

To answer Andy's question from last July Embarrassed about how I got the copper for the under hull plumbing so strait.  Actually it was quite easy.  I cut about 18" and put one end in a bench vise, to the other end I attached a set of vise-grips. One full body weight pull later I had 16" of very strait copper. 

After cleaning all the dust off the turret was the next part of the build.  It was mostly done strait out of the box.  I swapped out the fabric mesh supplied with the kit with some brass, I also added on tow cable clips around the side and back of the turret.  Other than filling a few holes near the stowage bin frame and around the seams that was it

 DSCN1138.jpg picture by 1SGDavis

Next came the assembly of the frame work and blade for the dozer  I used the Academy kit, although the price was great ($4.00 as I remember)  there were a few drawbacks.  No plumbing at all (as detailed in previous posts) there were also a lot of stubs left over from the mfr. process as well as some uneven seams.  all in all a lot more filler than I would have expected for so few pieces.  Next go around I may spend the extra $ for the verlinden dozer kit.

DSCN1142.jpg picture by 1SGDavis

 

Next was a little more detail on the back of the of the blade over and above what the Academy kit provided.  Then I fired up the airbrush and got some more paint on turret and blade & frame.  The last bit to this point was scatching together the manual release below the driver hatch.  This is how she sits now. 

DSCN1148.jpg picture by 1SGDavis

Thats all for now, thanks all for looking in.

 

Gary / CSM

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: On my kitchen counter top somewhere in central North Carolina.
Posted by disastermaster on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 9:03 PM

Ah yes, I remember this one......Cool!

http://www.innovationbyinstinct.com/services/hosting/clients/accountyp/status/DisasterMaster/%23t1-4.jpg

 https://i.imgur.com/LjRRaV1.png

 

 

 
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 5:33 AM

Top - Glad to see you back at the bench. Looking forward to seeing this one finished!!

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Monday, March 8, 2010 3:45 AM

Gary, you are movin along nicely. I just love that old school OD/white stars look of the vehicle, so can't wait to see it finished. But not only that, what you did resuming the build gives me hope for the various projects sitting in various boxes around my workshop. Happy modelling and have a nice day

Pawel

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by wt259 on Monday, March 8, 2010 8:16 PM

7377 Tanker, thought you might be interested in the site about Wildflecken, click on the link or paste it.

http://www.wildfleckenveterans.com/wta.php

The one map on the site shows how close it was to the IGB.  I knew it was close when I went up there for training, but I didn't realize how close it really was.

  • Member since
    May 2005
Posted by pyrman64 on Monday, March 8, 2010 8:48 PM

Gary,

Congrats on the promotion! Toast

Looking forward to seeing the finished product....

 

Greg/Caporal/2e REI

Greg H

"There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell." Gen. Wm T. Sherman (11 April 1880, Columbus, Ohio)

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: NE Massachusetts
Posted by 1SG Davis on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 10:10 PM
G, Disastermaster, Mike, Pawel, and 7377Tanker thanks for the welcome back.  Pyrman64, thanks for the congrats. 
Got a little more time in on the bench over the past few days here is an update on the progress.  Finished putting together the AFV club "chevron" tracks, I put them on to get the correct length.  They will come off soon to get detailed.  Tow cables were attached and painted along with the fuel cans.  I also attached a layer to tissue paper with a mixture of water and white glue to give some added texture to the canvas covers on both guns.  Decals went on too, not sure how acurate they are though.  Any input on addition markings that I may be missing  would be welcome.
I'm also rapidly approaching the weathering process, this is my weakest skill.  I've given some thought to visiting a local modeling club, IPMS Patriot chapter.  Is anyone familiar with this group?  Is it a type of setting where I might be able to watch/learn first hand some weathering techniques?
Thanks for looking in,
Gary / CSM
DSCN1168.jpg picture by 1SGDavis
DSCN1174.jpg picture by 1SGDavis
DSCN1176.jpg picture by 1SGDavis
DSCN1178.jpg picture by 1SGDavis
  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:48 AM

Gary, your tank is looking so beeautifully clean now... A great build. Sorry to say it's going to be a little tricky to weather it, now that the decals are on. At least the way I usually do it. I'd recomend a following sequence: 1)preshading 2)decals 3)washes+dry brushing. That's of course not the state of the art today, where you just HAVE to have filters, oil dots, pigments and so on. With pre shading I mean airbrush painting all the recessed portions of the tank some dark colour (dark gray maybe with some tan added should work), and then airbrush painting the center of each flat surface OD. The preshading colour should be darker than OD but lighter than the wash. So that's my 2 cents, probably not very helpful. Anyhow I wish you good luck with the project, I'll be watching and have a nice day

Pawel

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 5:20 AM

Looking outstanding. As far as the weathering....it comes in time. If you don't like to do oil washes, I would suggest going to the MIG USA site. They have pre made washes. Their pigments are great and they have some good how to stuff there also 

To some extent, everything is a fad....do what you like

Congrats on the CSM. The star and wreath are well deserved!!

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:18 AM

Congrats on the promotion.  The tank is looking great.  I think you are right on track with the build sequence.  I don't believe in pre-shading.  I have never seen a real tank that looked like it was pre-shaded.  I weather by a series of washes, drybrushing, and powders to bring up the details.  I do all this after the decals are on as well.  Keep up the good work.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:56 AM

Yes, I was a member of IPMS Patriot for four years while I was living on Hanscom AFB. Great bunch of guys who are always eager to help out. I haven't been to one of their club meeting since December 2004 (I left NE in Jan 05) but there were really good modelers who were active in AMPS and IPMS. At the time they met at the community center near the Bedford HS.

Also, depending on your location, Nordland AMPS is an informal club that meets at the Norwell Public Library one Saturday a month (first?). They had one really superb scratch build modeler there named Jim Norian, who built some masterpieces out of sheet styrene.

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 8:52 AM

don't believe in pre-shading.  I have never seen a real tank that looked like it was pre-shaded.  I weather by a series of washes, drybrushing, and powders to bring up the details.  I do all this after the decals are on as well. 

Ditto...  IMHO, it looks cartoonish on armor (aircraft too, for that matter), and gives me the impression that the builder painted it only to photograph it and turns a 3-D object into 2-D one to make it look 3-D again...   K.I.S.S....  Besides, tanks and such (even in small-scales) have enough of their own shadows that it's just extra work...

I do the same as HA, just dark washes, then light highlights on the raised details, then pastels over a factory-fresh paint job (including the decals & markings)...  Tracks- Dark grey-brown rubber with a crusty looking greyish-tan on the steel, VERY little rust anywhere...

BTW, congratulations, Sarn't Major..

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:57 PM

Nah, we used to mix some diluted black paint and spray areas of the tank that looked too clean. We'd mix our own shade of rust and highlight bolts and welds to bring out the detail. Just kidding.

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Dripping Springs, TX, USA
Posted by RBaer on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 2:12 PM

Glad to see this one moving along so well. I'm still going to use it (shamelessly and gratefully) as a reference to finish the one I did a couple of years ago without any plumbing for the 'dozer.

I think it looks really good in its current clean state, but it's hard to resist dirtying up something that's sometimes used as earth-moving equipment ......

Apprentice rivet counter.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: NE Massachusetts
Posted by 1SG Davis on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:14 PM

Pawel, Mike, HA, Rob Hans & RBear, great advice from all about my weathering worries.  I’ve tried washes with oil paint thinned with turpinoid and acrylic paint thinned with alcohol, each time the results were less than desired.  The acrylic wash left the tide lines and seemed gritty when the alcohol dried.  The oil wash thinned with the turpinoid ate the acrylic paint on another build. I’ve probably had the best success with powders but still need much more practice.  I went to the MIG USA site and the pre-mixed washes look interesting. I assume they are wet washes, right?  Where can you get them ? I haven’t seen them at my LHS and squadron doesn’t show anything either.   They appear to be enamel based.  Are they okay when used over acrylic paint?  

Rob, been to Hascom AFB many times.  I’m at Fort Devens right now.  According to the IMPS Patriot web site they meet in Billerica now.  I live in the next town over, I plan to drop by for their April meeting and have a look.  

Heavy Arty, I’ve been following your M-48 thread.  Fantastic build, I’ve noticed some interesting conversation that parallels a build idea that’s been in the back of my mind.  I’ll drop in and ask a few questions

Thanks again all for the congrats too

 

Gary / CSM

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: NE Massachusetts
Posted by 1SG Davis on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:08 PM

Weathering and final touches are done.   A grime wash was done with water & flat black Tamiya acrylic with a touch of dish detergent to break the surface tension & control beading.  It seemd to work well.  The dry brushing was a different story. When I finished it looked way too heavy handed.  I ended up toning it down w/OD dry brush and I the went over it with charcoal powder & worked it in with a brush. 

Weathering the tracks and suspension was  my greatest frustration.  I have yet to come close to the other work I've seen here.  I'm going to Give the local model club a shot the begining of next month and see if I can get a few pointers to improve.

 I added some grit to "mud" paint and detailed the dozer blade.  This could really have used some paint chipping & rust but I haven't  that skill yet. 

Small details like antenna's,  fire extinguisher toggles, periscope paint, and headlight/taillight detail were the last step.

Did Italeri mold the rear taillights opposite of how they should be?  All my reference pictures seem to show reverse of how its molded in the kit.

Here's how she looks now.  Any comments or critique is always welcome.

DSCN1224-1.jpg picture by 1SGDavis

 

DSCN1225.jpg picture by 1SGDavis

 

DSCN1227.jpg picture by 1SGDavisDSCN1233.jpg picture by 1SGDavis

Next up is either a hybrid Italeri lower/Tamiya upper M60A2, or I may tackle an AEF M728 conversion kit I got off E-Bay.

Thats all for now, thanks for look'n in

Gary / CSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: On my kitchen counter top somewhere in central North Carolina.
Posted by disastermaster on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:14 AM

You said the turpenoid ate thru the acryl. I think I know what the problem is. This situation has been addressed here before.

It's very EASY to mistakenly get a container of Turpenoid brush cleaner, that is a definite no-no.

That is used to CLEAN brushes, so that is what it is going to do to your paint job too.

Just get turpenoid thinner; it's different.

Turpenoid thinner just thins and is a perfect carrier for oil washes. No kidding, it works perfect.

It's all I ever use.

 

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/gluetank/Decorated%20images/th_T1-4-copy.jpg

 https://i.imgur.com/LjRRaV1.png

 

 

 
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 5:16 AM

Gary - Very nice, weathering looks good, the plow blade had a nice, dirty look to it.

As far as the MIG stuff, yep the washes are enamel base and work fine over acrylic paint. Though I use the MIG items I still like to play with the oils!!

As Steve said...look for Turpernoid thinner......Blue Can.

Rounds Complete!!  

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:20 PM

Looks great! A nice dark OD with just enough weathering to look used but maintained. Great balance there!Yes

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Dripping Springs, TX, USA
Posted by RBaer on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:59 PM

I like it a LOT!

Used but not abused.

Apprentice rivet counter.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:59 AM

It looks pretty good.  Nice job so far.  Here is a track painting tutorial that may help you out.  Keep up the good work and keep us posted. 

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Thursday, March 18, 2010 2:52 PM

Very cool build, Dave! I like it a lot.

 

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