#96: Tamiya Pz II C Polish *Complete PICS p5*

wbill76 wrote:

SMJmodeler wrote: PS. You said the duration of the Poland invasion was about one month long right?  What was the date/month? As a former history teacher I have to shake my head at this question Steve! WW2 began with the invastion of Poland on Sept 1, 1939 and the Polish campaign was over by October 1.

You're probably saying...how can he NOT know that!?...right?

I get that same feeling when people on the street are asked simple questions about the U.S.  like, "Where is Montana?"...or what/where is "Washington D.C."?

Ok..mentally noted and engrained in my gray matter (I'll be ready for the pop-quiz) SEPT 1, 1939!

SMJmodeler wrote:

PS. You said the duration of the Poland invasion was about one month long right?  What was the date/month?

As a former history teacher I have to shake my head at this question Steve! WW2 began with the invastion of Poland on Sept 1, 1939 and the Polish campaign was over by October 1.

wbill76 wrote:

This is the Opel "Blitz" if I recall correctly? I don't know that much about softskins but the "Blitz" was in service in the '30s so wouldn't be out of place IMHO for Poland. As far as cargo goes, the same "stuff" that was needed for the advance as in any other campaign I suppose! Figures in the truck bed would work, although the % of German divisions that were motorized was still fairly low at that period of time. Sounds like the wheels are turning, ought to be interesting whatever you come up with!

Bill: I believe it is the Opel Blitz...I like the little history lesson Tamiya gives in the instruction booklet and I expect to learn more about the truck when I read it.  What I had in mind was a pre-attack preparation scene.  I have a pretty nice spare parts bin in the stash but I'd like something unique in the bed of the truck that could represent the "Prelude to War" theme (recall, this might be my AMPS East submission in that category).  Hmmm...I'll have to think about that some more.  Let me now if someting comes to mind as you continue your build.  Thanks!

PS. You said the duration of the Poland invasion was about one month long right?  What was the date/month?

SMJmodeler wrote:

I don't want to hi-jack your thread, so a PM response is fine if you prefer.  Here's the question: If you recall I'm buying the German 3ton 4 x 2 truck with my PzII order and I'd like to know if they would be appropriate together in a dio?...if so, what context?  Were there specific/unique supplies that were called for in the Polish attack that might make for something interesting?  How about a bunch of figures in the truck bed?...your thoughts/ideas?...

This is the Opel "Blitz" if I recall correctly? I don't know that much about softskins but the "Blitz" was in service in the '30s so wouldn't be out of place IMHO for Poland. As far as cargo goes, the same "stuff" that was needed for the advance as in any other campaign I suppose! Figures in the truck bed would work, although the % of German divisions that were motorized was still fairly low at that period of time. Sounds like the wheels are turning, ought to be interesting whatever you come up with!

wbill76 wrote:

...The white markings would've been pretty "crisp" in terms of having been applied pre-war by the crews when the vehicles were issued. The addition of yellow on the other hand was something that was done by some, but not all, crews in an attempt to tone down their very prominent markings while in the field and the campaign was already under way. Remember that the Polish campaign didn't last very long, it was all over in a single month.

Bill:  Thanks for the context on this issue.  It really makes for an interesting build premise.  Based on your struggle with the decals( I figure if you had trouble I'm dead meat) I'll probably opt for a crisp white cross stencil made from masking tape using the decal as a guide.  Then I'll do the same for the yellow cross.  The yellow will be less perfect...I may even take a moist brush and smear it a bit before it dries.

As far as your approach is it concerned, it's sounds like its based on solid info and it should look great!...I can't wait to see the results.

I don't want to hi-jack your thread, so a PM response is fine if you prefer.  Here's the question: If you recall I'm buying the German 3ton 4 x 2 truck with my PzII order and I'd like to know if they would be appropriate together in a dio?...if so, what context?  Were there specific/unique supplies that were called for in the Polish attack that might make for something interesting?  How about a bunch of figures in the truck bed?...your thoughts/ideas?...

Man, I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas trying to be patient on my order...where's that darn UPS truck!?

Steve, can't have too many early war panzers floating around! You're right about the fierceness of the fighting...I often wonder how long it would've really lasted if the Soviets hadn't invaded on the 17th. The Polish campaign experience produced quite a few changes in how the Germans organized their armored forces as well as changes to the panzers themselves that would manifest themselves before the French and Balkans campaigns.

Thanks Julian!

A very nice looking little "two" Bill. Can't wait to see it weathered.

Julian

My Polish Panzer II. Built to specs for a friend. 314 did have yellow painted over the markings, to reduce visibility. Even though it was a very short fight, the Poles fought fiercly, and didn't make it easy for the Germans.

Sorry about the pic quality.

Thanks again Steve and Dre!

     Bill, sneaking an update in midweek?! Good thing I decided to take a break and see what's going on.  Well done on those decals. I probably would have torn them to pieces trying to get them on.

   The cammo is easier to see in these latest pics and I can see why it wouldn't show up in B/W photos to well. When I get to the paint on my IID I plan on using yours as a guide. I just hope it looks as good.

Thanks Tony!

Steve,

A little context is called for here in discussing the markings. The authorized markings for the Polish campaign were white crosses and turret numbers to go with the rhomboid plates. So far as I'm aware, the use of yellow came about as an expedient in this particular campaign and not as an intentional design. The white markings would've been pretty "crisp" in terms of having been applied pre-war by the crews when the vehicles were issued. The addition of yellow on the other hand was something that was done by some, but not all, crews in an attempt to tone down their very prominent markings while in the field and the campaign was already under way. Remember that the Polish campaign didn't last very long, it was all over in a single month.

As to whether or not R03 is wearing white with mud or white overpainted with yellow? Either is possible and all I really have to go by is the information in the Frank de Sisto authored-caption...but since Tamiya provided the decals in white, I'm going the mud route vs. the yellow route. The decals that they do provide for a vehicle that has the yellow show a white border/outline remaining for the crosses but not the vehicle numbers and I agree that those are a bit too "neat" for the conditions, but I don't have a photo of that vehicle available to compare against so no idea how close or far it might be in terms of accuracy.    

wbill76 wrote:

I opted for the "R03" designation since I had a reference photo to work off of from "Panzer Vor!" Vol 1. The kit markings are pure white even though it looks like the photo has had mud smeared on the markings so I'm going to have some fun in how I approach that one.

Bill: It's hard to tell frm the photo if it's mud on the markings or overspray/wear.  I recall you saying the crew's would try to tone down the white but I'm not getting the impression that it is mud from this photo.  I read you approach, in your latest post...I'm looking forward to seeing how you pull-it-off.

BTW: Great photo!, a perfect example to work from...look at that track sag!...I'll need to search for that book.  I'm leaning towards the white/yellow cross markings, hopefully I'll find a good photo to work from too. 

*EDIT* I just read Manny's reply and it made me wonder...is the yellow over the white on the decal sheet to represent the yellow crew applied efforts in question?...or is it a different tank designation?  If it was the yellow effort it looks WAY too perfect to be applied as a decal, IMO...what are your thoughts Bill...

The placement of those decals would definitely test your skills.

Another 10 points for the man from Texas.

Mighty Fine                                                                                                                  Tony the Mutt

Edmund, Mike, Josiah, thanks for the comments!

Mansteins revenge wrote:

Good job taming those decals down---hatches and vison ports are always a challenge to cover...my refs tell me that many German vehicles also toned down the white markings with yellow paint...

MR, thanks for the kind words, the Pz II turret isn't very decal friendly for sure. Some of the areas needed upwards of 3-4 targeted applications before they all finally snuggled down. My refs say the same thinga bout using yellow paint and Tamiya provides that option for a 3rd vehicle in the finishing guide/decals. The blurry/soft nature of the turret markings for R03 in the pic combined with the visible dust/dirt on the turret suggests the mud option in this case and that's what the caption indicates, so that's the angle I'll pursue with this one.

The want to apply decals he blames on the lack of TV......hummmm

Nice.....as always

Rounds Complete!!

Hi Bill,

I really like how subtle and toned down the camo ended up.  Decals look quite nice as well.

Much better than watching TV!!!

There hasn't been much in the way of good stuff on TV the past couple of days so I decided to use the time in the evenings to get the decals on. First up was the usual sealing coat of Future applied by airbrush. This was allowed to air dry for a couple of hours and then the work began with the decals.

I opted for the "R03" designation since I had a reference photo to work off of from "Panzer Vor!" Vol 1. The kit markings are pure white even though it looks like the photo has had mud smeared on the markings so I'm going to have some fun in how I approach that one.

The decals were applied using Solvaset and, due to the complex surfaces that most had to conform to, several doses and some careful prodding with a soft brush were necessary to get them all to settle down properly. The decals did tear slightly in a couple of places so some touch up with some Flat White paint was in order but nothing too dramatic. A second coat of Future was air brushed to seal in and protect the markings and will be allowed to sit overnight at a minimum before the weathering process can begin.

wing_nut wrote:

Fantastic work as usual Bill.  I have to say though... the drawing of the track assembly in the instructions kinda scared me a little

Now imagine that it was intended to be done before the upper hull was mounted!

Guney, thanks for the comments!  

panzerguy wrote:

Bill sorry what I should have asked was "is this cammo pattern the standard..."

Ah, that makes more sense to me now. The photos where you can pick out the camo pattern show that it was the large patchy type of approach. The orders only stated the ratios of the coverage at the 2/3-1/3 and I would say the "standard" is the patches variety, especially since it was done largely at the factory and not with a template.

wbill76 wrote:

panzerguy wrote:   Bill the little guy is looking sharp! I was a little bummed that there was no Saturday night update, glad to see you were able to get some time in. I'm sure those tracks were a patience tester but once again your step by step has more than likely made it a little easier for the next person to tackle one of these.   Was this pattern the standard or was it common to see the wavy line pattern also? Steve, my Saturday really got taken over by other things...all I will say is that e-bay can be very addictive and I stayed up way too late last night for my other hobby (coin collecting). The wavy pattern is probably a little more pronounced than it ought to be but isn't outside the realm of possibility. They were steel skeletal links and the Pz II suspension was low to the ground, so I'm sure keeping the tracks properly tensioned would be a regular chore for the crew. Shots of them sitting parked do show similar amounts of sag. Tamiya molded the sag in place so you have to go with it and ride the wave!

  Bill sorry what I should have asked was "is this cammo pattern the standard..."

Thanks Michael! The decals are the next hurdle because of all the complex surfaces...another case of "hurry up and wait" before I get to the weathering stage, but it's closer!

Terry, I hear you! Sometimes I have to remind myself that it's a holistic process and that something in the middle may not look right if that were the stopping poing but to just let it ride through to the end. As I've added more steps to the process this has become a more complex deal of course...sometimes I wonder if I might need a shrink before it's all over!