7.5cm Pak 40 ~ How to Operate ~COMPLETED

Nice!!

I alwasy burned my lips when I smoked brass!

Seriously though looks great Adam!

  ~~~I was busy with this gunner...
Sculpted that missing area of his tunic and pressed in some equipment while at it, Not the most difficult sculpting task, but still not as easy as you think it will be beforehand.   Here some thin slabs of Milliput(fine white) are layed in his lap, ect.
It's pressed & kneaded near flat to meet the belt. Breadbag is a 'painted spare'(DML)the straps of it softened to flush-up to the belt, pressed into putty
Cigarette was added from some .013 brass wire, a drop of thin CA  to the back, then snipped. This let me make sure I had a square-cut to it's front end, and just the right length. You can see the tunic between the legs here too. Not really going to be seen later.

Smoking brass WILL kill you.      More shaping was done after the Milliput cured, with micro-files, dimond-needle-bits in the Dremel, and sandpaper. When somewhat happy with it,  it was surfaced with Tamiya Liquid Putty, thinned with laquer thinner. I thought it might be more interesting to show it here on the gun before I primer........   Loads more to do...off to work now!

wbill76 wrote:

T26E4 wrote: T-rex touches upon a point that's well-argued.  Some modellers feel that excessive blackening of muzzles is overdone that in actuality, the fouling at muzzles is from the cleaning and swabbing to clear the tube of residue.  Gotta remember that the 20th century saw the move away from black powder propellents. I'm in the camp of minimal blackening if at all. We have to remember as well that the gun barrels were painted in a specific heat-resistant lacquer primer before the DY or other base color was applied over it.  This primer is a dark gray and has often been confused for soot blackening in pics that show a distinct color difference between the brake and the rest of the barrel. Some darkening on the insides of the muzzle brake would be appropriate given the physics of how the muzzle blast is directed out through the baffles but there's no reason for the whole thing to be soot-black as is often depicted.

T26E4 wrote:

T-rex touches upon a point that's well-argued.  Some modellers feel that excessive blackening of muzzles is overdone that in actuality, the fouling at muzzles is from the cleaning and swabbing to clear the tube of residue.  Gotta remember that the 20th century saw the move away from black powder propellents. I'm in the camp of minimal blackening if at all.

We have to remember as well that the gun barrels were painted in a specific heat-resistant lacquer primer before the DY or other base color was applied over it.  This primer is a dark gray and has often been confused for soot blackening in pics that show a distinct color difference between the brake and the rest of the barrel. Some darkening on the insides of the muzzle brake would be appropriate given the physics of how the muzzle blast is directed out through the baffles but there's no reason for the whole thing to be soot-black as is often depicted.

T-rex touches upon a point that's well-argued.  Some modellers feel that excessive blackening of muzzles is overdone that in actuality, the fouling at muzzles is from the cleaning and swabbing to clear the tube of residue.  Gotta remember that the 20th century saw the move away from black powder propellents.

I'm in the camp of minimal blackening if at all.

I've made dragon's pak 40 gun too, (in late version, undeployed), keep in mind that perhaps the muzzel break might be black from the constent fires.

~ Bill ~ Thank you ,that definately helps. If it's a button than a lanyard would be out.

~ Roy ~ Thanks for confirming about trigger ~ makes sense.  Thanks for "cool project" I try. As for the neck thing...I've figured out it's from a slight "fisheye" perspective I get with my cheap digi camara when I get in really close. I get better detail - but it costs me proportion, to demo the effect...here's the original shot(note the odd perspective :you see both under the hat brim & the tops of the boot in one shot

This picture taken from farther-out and cropped/zoomed in post, softer detail, better proportion, neck looks fine

This guy too. If anything, I'd expect to hear the heads too big for the tiny DML body, but any less neck and the head will definately look too big! I'm greatful for your imput though and to have some other sets of eyes on this at this stage.   Thanks again...............Indy

Cool project Indy.  Some thing that immediately strikes out to me is that both figures' have unnaturally long necks.  You need to shrink down the neck stubs.  They aren't in normal human proportions to my eye.

And yes, the trigger is on the elevation wheel.  Think about it: the Pak is supposed to be a pin point accurate weapon to KO enemy vehicles.  The gunner needs very fine control and firing ability.

Keep up the good work: it'll be nice to see more progress.  This is cool

doc-hm3 wrote:

Indy, really nice clean build.

~Mikey, thank you for the link for the ammo. The kit supplied ammo is pretty nice(4 brass rounds, and some plastic rounds & shells & ammo boxes & tubes too.) I'll likely just go for the challenge of painting these up, as this has gottn to be an expensive build as-is.

~At this point, I'm developing a few custom figures to man my gun, by way of parts barrowed here & there,and sculpting the needed connecting areas. I need  a man at the gunsight, but having him bent down to sight seemed to totaly hide him from view, and maybe even suggest I was trying to hide him, so I'm building a pose where he is watching for the rounds impact over the gunshield, while casually puffing a ciggy, to show him very unaware of the incoming attack of foot-soldiers. It took some doing to get this position, and it's obvious it isn't done yet. The next steps involve some epoxy-putty to the area below the belt, to re-form the bottom of the tunic entirely,as well as replacing some of the top part of the torso's features, and maybe a change of boots too. The lower is from a Dragon tankriders set, the legs changed by heat-bend from an even position. The torso & arms from a nice (but boring) Platoon figure, except the whole upper-right arm which I formed from Milliput. The head is Alpine. Probablly with get some boots from Warriors, both to bulk him out a little, and because the ones he's got are a bit puny(DML)and of a type seen more in the ETO.  
 I'm working on another figure at the gun.This guy is the one holding the follow-up round as is always seen  in any in-action shot. I'm trying to model a fieldgun in a loaded & ready-to-fire condition, but maybe not an up-close, fast-fire scene. Given that. the breech is closed, The barrel elevated slightly, and  the follow-up-round-guy has taken a knee,and is waiting for word from the targeter. A commander & another crewman(at the front of the blog) stand nearby, both watching down-range. This figure is also from the DML tankrider set, hands removed and sleeves drilled out(still to decide on some new hands for him) the head is Warriors(a bit of wash on it so you can see his sour expression. Same cummy boots, naturally.      ~I took my que for these from some actual action photos, but still adapted what I wanted  with artistic licence, as a full-crew won't be seen, Im saying in my story(at this point ,at the end of the campaign) some crewmembers have been killed-off and some replaced by varrious personel. Convienient, I know, but  I usually like to take the route of mixing up the uniforms as much as possible for intrest, contrast & variety.  Here's a few of those Pak 40 crew  shots from history :   This one from Tunisia. See how "hidden' the targeter is in there? Full crew lines-up for fast-reloads--my figure's pose is close to man at front. I'm sure they we're trained to take that knee, and wait behind the relative safety of the gunshield.   These fellows in France. Sherman-hunting in Normandy, no doubt.
I found this dug-out set-up interesting, as Im sure there's no way to get comforable manning one of these, but my gun-position is supposed to be a hasty one, so I couldn't use this set-up. I'd say that gunner on the right better watch his hand, eh?  

Question :anybody know details of the triggering mechanism of the Pak 40? It' is a lever-type 0n top of the breech, yes? Access from either side? I would guess a pull-cord could be optional?

 ~Ok, I be back when I get these conversions looking like something.  Thanks to ya, if your still there Mateys ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Indy
 

I have the same kit though it is the one with the Falshrimjager crew. You should get the RB models PAK 40 ammo set since it contains 9 turned brass warheads and 12 turned brass shell casings.

http://www.ww2-resources.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=221_224&products_id=2753&zenid=285684351bee991411e843323ab108a0

spacepacker wrote:

A lovely neat model, sits nicely all by itself. Very well done...Kenny

~Thanks Kenny ~ It's gunna sit by it self a couple months til the Dio is formed around it.

Indy

A lovely neat model, sits nicely all by itself.

Very well done...Kenny

~The Gun is complete, & basecoated

 It's just a light coat of Tamiya TS-46 Light Sand. This will be the perfect base for the 2 tone Tropen camo, and it's a little newer & a bit different than the Dark Yellow the vehicle will get. At this point I'll set it aside, and not weather until the base is ready to accept it. I'm working on the conversion of a few figures in the role of firing .

agentg wrote:

Actually Indy the Tropen scheme could be used for both theatres at least in the early years(pre 1943). From what I have found the Tropen camo was used throughout the Med rim. Just my

Your afirmation became exclusionary by way of your statement, agentg.

Early March, 1943 is the time in question.  The  battle raged from Tunisia through Italy in '43, and that would be the time to see this camo in the MTO.

~Thanks though..........Indy

WOW...nice build of the pak...Dragon doesn't mess around, even with the small kits... That container in question, I thought, held the gunsight in travel mode...Tamiya models it attached to the shield, I believe...Are those tyres real rubber???

~Manny ~ Thanks kindly. Yup, for sure, an amazing little kit.   The container I'm pointing to

indicates what I'm told here is the bore cleaning swab storage, The optic gunsight is stored in the rectangular box just to it's left.      The tires are about as real as I can imagine( rubber-like if not "real" rubber)-->2 sets included, builder has choice of 'like new' set or well worn & dinged-up tires as they appear on each & every example you'll ever see. Being solid rubber rubber on the real thing, they seem to have gotten cut & gouged pretty heavily over rocky terrain, so I want to use the torn-up one's on my model even if my gun is not supposed to have been fielded more than a month (NO rust on it though So yeah--that gives you an extra set for the spares box + 2! sets of x-tra wheels.     Sorry I didn't post the sprues & all that, but such a review has been done to the hilt on Perth if you want one.

~ Indy OUT

WOW...nice build of the pak...Dragon doesn't mess around, even with the small kits...

That container in question, I thought, held the gunsight in travel mode...Tamiya models it attached to the shield, I believe...Are those tyres real rubber??? 

wbill76 wrote:

INDY wrote: ~Bill thanks & ..... ~ Bore swab  EH? i'll buy that. I guess it's fixed to that  2 piece ramrod kept on the trailing arm?(are those all-steal?   or sometimes wood handled like the panzers' ?)The stick on the other side is a ranging post,no?  (OH ^ hey --whats that missing lid look like ?--not in any pix I have.----Thanx again The missing lid is just a simple round cover with a hasp latch like you'd see on the small tubes on the other parts of the gun shield. Nothing really spectacular to it. I'm away from my references now or I'd post a pic so you could see it in the flesh. The cleaning rods are what is positioned on the trailing arm, the PaK 40 was a direct fire weapon so it didn't use ranging posts. The stick on the other side is the 3rd rod...three rods were needed plus the swab to be able to punch out the tube for cleaning. The rods were wood with aluminum end caps with a male and female end so they could be threaded together to form the full gun cleaning staff. Those ends wouldn't be visible though when installed on the trailing arm due to the nature of the holders so you don't have to worry too much about that.

~That explains why I've never noticed any wood handles, Thanks. I relize it's a direct fire weapon , but sure enough I've seen it in photos firing from it's max inclination. I guess that amount of sight adjustment was accomplishable on the optics, but it seemed likely to me it wasn't__I also had read a discussion somewhere that included an unresolved debate about this.        Thanks again for the info, that's why I've come

Indy

INDY wrote:

~Bill thanks & ..... ~ Bore swab  EH? i'll buy that. I guess it's fixed to that  2 piece ramrod kept on the trailing arm?(are those all-steal?   or sometimes wood handled like the panzers' ?)The stick on the other side is a ranging post,no?  (OH ^ hey --whats that missing lid look like ?--not in any pix I have.----Thanx again

The missing lid is just a simple round cover with a hasp latch like you'd see on the small tubes on the other parts of the gun shield. Nothing really spectacular to it. I'm away from my references now or I'd post a pic so you could see it in the flesh. The cleaning rods are what is positioned on the trailing arm, the PaK 40 was a direct fire weapon so it didn't use ranging posts. The stick on the other side is the 3rd rod...three rods were needed plus the swab to be able to punch out the tube for cleaning. The rods were wood with aluminum end caps with a male and female end so they could be threaded together to form the full gun cleaning staff. Those ends wouldn't be visible though when installed on the trailing arm due to the nature of the holders so you don't have to worry too much about that.

INDY wrote:

.. Sorry, it's been shelved for now. The PE shield was killing me among other things. Well, might I suggest it goes into a Dio at destroyed weapon or part of a panzerwreck & you go get that Dragon kit-it's cheap and not a tuff build !\\ Indy

The sad thing is I had the Dragon kit. However, I picked up the AFV combo on ebay for cheap, and sold off the Dragon kit. I knew that I'd regret it.

the doog wrote:

WOW, that's lookin' fine , Indy! Nice looking build, and a well-detailed post!  (Trying out different fonts, I see? lol! Good luck finding the default one again! )

!LOL ~ Hey Doog ! you're on right now too! Way cool & thanks for the praise<---->Thanks too for commenting on my fairly well-prepared post ! I pride myself on communicating clearly even if I can't spell so goood.

.. Sorry, it's been shelved for now. The PE shield was killing me among other things.

Well, might I suggest it goes into a Dio at destroyed weapon or part of a panzerwreck & you go get that Dragon kit-it's cheap and not a tuff build !\\

Indy

WOW, that's lookin' fine , Indy!

Nice looking build, and a well-detailed post! 

(Trying out different fonts, I see? lol! Good luck finding the default one again! )

INDY wrote:

wbill76 wrote: Nice work on the Pak 40! The container you're asking about is one that is often speculated on as to what exactly it held. Some maintain that it held the bore cleaning swab, others that it held various tools or other utensils for maintaining the gun. My vote is for the swab given it's size and the fact that it should have a top (which DML omits) and not be left open to the air. ~Bill thanks & ..... ~ Bore swab  EH? i'll buy that. I guess it's fixed to that  2 piece ramrod kept on the trailing arm?(are those all-steal? or sometimes wood handled like the panzers' ?)The stick on the other sideis a ranging post,no? ~ Nate ~ Much appreciated ~ Tigerguy  Thanks too you too. The AVF  PAK 40 seemed over-complicated huh? Price we pay for detail isn't it?  How'd it look finished though? Got pix? According to Cookie Sewell AFV makes the most accurate kit. ~ Indy

Sorry, it's been shelved for now. The PE shield was killing me among other things.

wbill76 wrote:

Nice work on the Pak 40! The container you're asking about is one that is often speculated on as to what exactly it held. Some maintain that it held the bore cleaning swab, others that it held various tools or other utensils for maintaining the gun. My vote is for the swab given it's size and the fact that it should have a top (which DML omits) and not be left open to the air.

~Bill thanks & .....

~ Bore swab  EH? i'll buy that. I guess it's fixed to that  2 piece ramrod kept on the trailing arm?(are those all-steal?   or sometimes wood handled like the panzers' ?)The stick on the other side is a ranging post,no?  (OH ^ hey --whats that missing lid look like ?--not in any pix I have.----Thanx again

~ Nate ~ Much appreciated

~ Tigerguy      The AVF  PAK 40 seemed over-complicated huh? Price we pay for detail isn't it?  How'd it look finished though? Got pix?     According to Cookie Sewell AFV makes the most accurate kit. I just liked all the x-tras in the DML box(even if i'm not using the figures for this build) and also the price(I openned the box and had to check the invoice---" $12 ! I only paid  $12 bucks for this !! Wow" I said to me self

~ Indy

I wish I had gone with the Dragon kit over the AFV Club one, but it came in the package with the 251/D and I couldn't resist. The parts are tiny and the build seems overcomplicated, not to mention that the directions are terrible.

Look forward to seeing the end product INDY.