MG 151 "DRILLING" AUF T-34 PROJECT (VOTE Y OR N)

This picture was discussed over on ML and resourceful guys discovered that it's a Photoshop creation. A modeller made the "what if" pic and stated so but the image has taken a life of its own.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1250069263/apologies+to+all

Does the guy looking at the camera look familiar?

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1133011849/1133234961/help+with+Flakpanzer+T-34%28r%29%2C+and+flackdrilling

Given this situation, I'd eschew trying to get every roadwheel and sprocket correct and just get the "what if" project built.  It'd be an attention getter for sure

Hey Tom-

               even with Roy's information this would be a really interesting project. Are you still thinking of doing it?

I will tell you this- the transmission cover is not in place on this vehicle- that gives you the opportunity to display some of the engine compartment too.

 Steve

Roy,

Thanks for the info and links!

After reading all the info I may still build this because it seams like the s.Pz.Jg.Abt 653 may have built one anyway.

Also since there are no known pictures of it, that leaves it open to "artistic license".

Steve, as you can tell from above, I may just build my oun rendition.

Tom

T26E4,

Per AchtungPanzer.com,

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-t-34r-soviet-t-34-in-german-service.htm

One of the most interesting conversions based on T-34/76 (model 1943) chassis was 2cm Flakvierling auf Fahrgestell T-34(r), an anti-aircraft tank - Flakpanzer. Also known as Flakpanzer T-34(r), it was armed with 20mm Flakvierling 38, which was a four barreled 20mm anti-aircraft L/115 gun. The armament was mounted in a turret made by field workshop (Werkstattkompanie 653) using armor plates from damaged half-tracks. Ammunition was stored in metal cases on a rack at the rear of the vehicle. It served with headquarters of schwere Heeres Panzerjaeger Abteilung 653, on the Eastern Front in early and mid 1944. Flakpanzer T-34(r) can be compared to post-war Chinese Type 63 anti-aircraft tank based on T-34, which remained in service until late 1980s. In mid 1944, this same unit also used other T-34/76 tanks converted to ammunition carriers designated as Munitionspanzer T-34(r).Also, this unit fielded captured recovery version of T-34 tank mounted with 20mm Flakdrilling, which was twin barreled 20mm anti-aircraft gun. Another interesting conversion was done by Kampfgruppe Kienast in Saxony in 1945 - 88mm Flak 36 gun mounted on a modified T-34/76 chassis.

Don't Know, What do you think???

Tom

Hey Tom,

What do I think?

If you really need documentation, (no matter how tenuous), to support it, that will do.

But do you really need it? Show the altered photo- point out that it is a fake.

Show the text above and go for it.

Have you ever seen this:

I had nothing like what you have for "reference". I still enjoyed the heck out of doing it.

Definitely go for it! The idea is too cool to ignore.

And I'd use one of the Dragon 1941 vintage kits.

 Steve

Hi tom: I don't have any means to verify the veracity of that post.  However I'd say a Flakdrilling is a triple barrled AA gun, not a twin (I know you know that).  Must be a typo by the writer.

I know strange, undocumented items did appear.  I interviewed a German tank veteran who surrendered in the Kurland pocket.  He said among the unusual items their forces used were two T-34/85s that were rebored to take 8.8cm ammo.  Also had on hand a captured M3 Lee.  Can you imagine if a pic of those showed up?  Cool eh? 

Anyways, my point isn't to be dogmatic.  I think any potential "one-off" we do w/o proper photo documentation should be explained however so as to not confuse others.  Best of luck w/your project!

Steve,

That's an interesting...uh..Thing you got there.

What exactly is it???

Interesting though..

As someone interested in historical accuracy, I DO need documentation.

I feel like I over stepped with my added gun barrel rack on the Flakpanzer T-34, but considered that since there are very few photos of it and they seem to be early in it's life, they were a logical add-on.

Roy,

As for what you have already stated and what I have just wrote above, it  is a bit of a paradox for me.

If I am going to be perpetuating a myth, then I don't want to build it.

Knowing the 653rd. was "into" "odd stuf" though, it is plausable.

As you said Roy, If I build it I will need to be careful to state that this is an "artis conseption" of what this vehicle would look like "if" it had existed at all.

I think I would like the members of this forum to chime in and put this thing to a vote!

Should I build it or not? Yes or No????????

Tom 

PANZERJAGER wrote:

If I am going to be perpetuating a myth, then I don't want to build it. As you said Roy, If I build it I will need to be careful to state that this is an "artis conseption" of what this vehicle would look like "if" it had existed at all. Should I build it or not? Yes or No????????

Hey Tom!

            I understand what you mean about perpetuating a myth, and the importance of historical accuracy to you.

I don't like people building hypothetical stuff and trying to pass it off as real. But I have no problem with people building "What-If's" and stating that it is what it is.

My "What-If" is the result of a club challenge. Take an E-10 or E-25 and do anything you want with it. I had just moved to a new home when I built it. It was an opportunity to force myself to find everything I needed, unpack and set up the workshop. I decided toput a SturmTiger style gun on the E-25. I used the E-25 suspension and tracks, Panther engine deck vents, T-34 hatches, otherwise its all Evergreen Styrene.

I'd like to see you build the T-34 either way. But now that I understand your mindset a little better, I just wish I could find the picture you need.

Steve

I say go for it.

Terry.

Thanks every body who responded!

I guess it is unanimous!!

OK as soon as the "Weekend Madness GB" is over and I finish the Opel Maultier I am working on.

Probably about 3 weeks.

Stay tooned, and bring popcorn!

I'll post a play by play of the build.

Tom