Dragon #6312 KINGTIGER (Porsche Turret)

All of these type in Normandy had the zimm---none saw action as I recall...I have this kit in the pre-zimmed version....sweet kit---gonna do mine in whitewash...

I have recently finished a DML Tiger I Late Production (3 in 1) and used an ATAK zim for it. The zim was very accurate with some damage spots making it very real. I believe ATAK has one for  the Porsche Turret . DML  after you bought this kit came out with a zim version. Do send photos as you go along. Wil follow your progress. Good luck!

Thanks for the insight.  Looks like we will have Zimmerit.  Thought these were done only with the zimmerit.  Now do I get aftermarket kits or do i try laying putty?  I have never used putty for this and have been wanting to try it for some time now.  I have a Tamiya coating applicator tool and some Squadron putty.  That is what I might try, I have seen good results of this (if you know what your doing).  My fear is that the squadron putty drys very quickly not giving me much time to make the Zimmerit.  Will have to practice first.  Thanks again for the info.  I will keep updating as i go.

Never tried but want to apply Zimmerit with wood filler. Read a article in FSM on this technique. The good point is its easy to change (water soluble) and chipping or removal is easy as it has a low hold strength to plastic.

Wood filler sounds like an intresting approach.  Would you happen to know which FSM this was in?  Is there one wood filler better than the other for this?  I am preparing some spare parts now in order to practice with the application.  I am willing to try just about anything.  After market kits are great and that is what I had used in the past but I have always wanted to try this, so here goes.  Thanks for the tip.

This will start my experiment.  Will try putty first since I have some but that wood filler sure sounds a lot better.  Might run out to the store and get some tonight.

This is experiment #1.  I used Elmer's wood filler and dabbed it on with a flexible makeup brush (stolen from the wife).  I pulled the foam from the tip leaving just the plastic applicator.  I also find these brushes work great in the right situation to apply dry pigment or pastel. 

The problem I had is that the filler could not be spread.  It would not stick to the plastic and would clump up.  So I then soaked an old paint brush in water and smeared it into the filler.  This seemed to work with a little patience.

I had to let some of the water evaporate but before the filler dryed I then used the zimmerit tool.

After the filler dryed completly I used a can of spray paint to put some paint on just to get an idea of what it would look like.  I know not a very good paint job, it's an experiment.

Next experiment I will paint the plastic first to see if the putty will stick better.  Which brings up one more question.  When zimmermit is chipped of, what color shows underneath?  I have seen models with the red primer showing and some had the base color showing such as Dunkelgelb.  Which would be correct?  Any suggestions on anything above?  Looking for any comments before smearing this all over my Tiger.

Looks like the experiments are a success!

As for the primer underneath question, there's some debate about that since the zimmerit was applied as a paste, given it's shape/pattern/ridges, and then blow-dried until it dried like concrete...then the base color dunkelgelb was sprayed over the zim. Some take the approach that if the zim were to chip off, it would still leave a thin film behind that would've bonded to the primer (after all, that's what primer is for) and others take the approach that it would leave red oxide primer exposed. Either approach is plausible IMHO and you could even go so far as to combine both...meaning you have a large-ish chip of missing zim with primer exposed in the middle and a border of "film" around the edges where the rest of the zim is still intact. Add in the fact that it wasn't uncommon for crews to also repaint sections in the field if large portions of zim had flaked or chipped off and you have lots of leeway in terms of how you choose to depict it under those circumstances.

Good to know I have options.  I will have time to think about the color as a lay down zim.  It has already become very labor intensive.

WOW!  First attempt and it looks great already... good thing you had spare parts to practice on.  I have the same Tamiya Zimm tool set you are using and I have to give it a shot one day.  If I can help, while you use the zimm tool, make shorter strides if possible instead of making one long strides.  Hope you know what I am trying to say...

Just imagine if you are in 1/35 and you are applying zimm within your arm/hand length at the factory.  I personally haven't tried this but apparently I will very soon with my Tamiya Panzer IV Ausf. H for GB I signed up recently. Yikes!  So I will be following your process closely.  Good luck buddy !

Andy,

The time and labor intensity of zim application vs the limited threat protection it offered was one of the reasons it was dropped by the Germans. It had to be applied with hand trowels and added several man-hours to the construction time of new tanks. No coincidence that it was dropped the end of August '44 when things were decidedly not going well and vehicles were urgently needed on all fronts to make up losses.

Your zimm attempt looks a bit too rough to me...not bad for a first-try, but I'd keep practicing a bit more...the medium you are using may be a bit too coarse for the scale...

Tim, does this help you get an idea.

Tony Lee

If it is too rough like Manny suggsted, can it be sanded down alittle?

Not half bad, but it looks too runny for zim.

Cavalier makes a set for this kit...

http://www.cavaliermodels.com/Zimmeritlist.html

CV125    King Tiger (Porsche Turret)  Dragon 6189 & 6312 $19.95

I have had great results with the Cavalier sets...here is a Panther I did with a set.

Been at work for the last week and have not been able to do any work on the Tiger.  I agree with many of the comments made and spent last night scraping off all of the wood filler.  I found the wood filler to coarse when it left the pattern and at times could not get it to leave a pattern at all and it looked like a soupy mess.  Because of this I was unable to make short strides, as it should be.  The wood fillercould not really be sanded or sculpted due to it's poor adhesion.  Still determinend to make my own Zim, I have had time to think of other alternatives.  Since last night I have tryed different wood putties and spackling and was not pleased.  Finally I found an All-Purpose Adhesive (Polyseamseal).  This I have found goes on easy, sticks very good and is easy to shape.  I have tryed this on some spare parts and it looks as if it came out to be the right scale.  It also appears to paint nicely.  This is what I will be applying tonight.  I will post pictures soon.

This is an example on a spare part.  Opinions?

Well work has began.  I put the first coat of zimmerit on the back side and now waiting for it to dry.

While waiting decided to get the road wheels started and get them out of the way.  They are my least favorite thing to do.  I gave them some primer (50% burnt sienna, 25% chestnut, 25% thinner) and then sprayed the base color dunkelgelb.  Then I applied a wash of burnt umber followed with dry brushing with the dunkelgelb mixed with some insignia white.  They will receive some pastel powder when assembled.

Your posts have provided us a great dea of information... it has been very helpful.  I have been hearing great things about the wood fillers in the forums mostly for diomaras but it may not work too well on plastic kits like you have shown us.  It looks like All-Purpose Adhesive (Polyseamseal) is the way to go.  But I was wondering how you can soften it up a bit before you can apply it on the kit?

Tim the wheels look great and the zimm texture looks about right too. Take another look at your box art and the picture I posted of the real thing and you'll notice when the zimm was applied they used shorter horizontal strokes and by doing so created a vertical ridge at the end of the strokes.

I'm no zimmerit expert by no means but yours lacks these vertical ridges always present on the real thing.

Stay with her bud

Tony Lee

Understood, I am still working on the vertical ridge.  I have not been able to perfect that yet.  Did not have that much room in the back.  I will be appling the zim on the majority of the hull today. Should have more room and hopefuly a better working surface.  The polyseamseal is already a thin putty right out of the tube.  It is water soluable and suppose you could thin it out with water.  Do not think it needs to be any thinner though.  Before I put the hull togther i have to build a partial interior around the drivers hatch.  The hatch is going to be open so want to put somthing in there.  Will be looking for pictures of interior.  Later I will also be putting the interior into the turret.  All hatches will also be open on the turret.

Rob

the wheels look great! good job on the zim as well!

Well have not done as much as planed.  Had some water pipes break in the house!  Maybe I should start building some boats.  Decided that I had to get all wheels and tracks on so that I could put the fenders on so that I could finally put some zimmerit on.  Last night managed to get one side installed with tracks.  Tonight figered I would stay late and get the other side done.  I have also started to bent up one of the wheel skirts.  As soon as the skirts are finished and installed  should be able to lay some more zim.

Thats all for tonight.  Believe I am going to be paying  for staying up all night.

It was worth it to me to have you stay up all night. Tracks are excellent.

Thanks

Tony Lee

Thanks for the comments.  Nice to hear good ones from a pro, thats for all the builders here.  Work now continues.

Rob

Making good progress on this one, keep the updates coming!

Little more done tonight.  Still have not made up my mind if I like this or not?  I will let you all comment.  Either way work will continue.  No turning back for this polyseamseal does not come off when fully cured.  Managed to get the glacis and the left side done with zimmerit.  As soon as the zim was layed down I went ahead and put the tools on.  Usually leave those for last to make painting easier but thought I should press them into the zim with a little CA glue before it was to dry.

Was still unable to make the vertical line that is made in the real zim.  If I stoped to much or moved the tool in to many different directions the polyseam would peel up.  Anyway manged to get a few verticals in there.  Was able to get fenders on both sides.  I am pleased with how they came out but realy like it without the skirts on.

Thats the last look at them.  I am building from a picture of a tiger that I have been wanting to replicate in a dio and it has it's skirts on so mine does to.

Tomorrow is back to work for me so not sure when I will be able to get back to the Tiger.  When I do I will zim and tool the right side and then move on from there.

Rob

After my last post was a bit embarrassed about my zim.  After a day of not looking then coming back and looking at it again, I really decided it was no good.  Keep hearing PVT. Mutt and Deafpanzer saying in my head, why did he not use shorter strokes.  So I went to scraping all of the zim off, that took quite a few hours, and then layed down a new pattern of zim.  After getting the old zim off , first I put some guide marks on to follow.  Followed by small (about 1/8) strokes whith the tool.  This is what it is now.  Think it is much better.

Think with paint on it, it might come out fine?

Having a little pride in your work never hurts huh Rob?

Now that looks a whole heap better,give that boy a Gold Star What the heck make it two

Tony Lee

Thanks Tony, good to hear from you.

Rob