Revell M48A2 Patton ARRIVED!!

I think that is what the Doog did on his M48 build. Now the Tamiya kit is ideal for making a dio of a power pack change out since the power pack is most of the weight of the tank.

But on the Tamiya kit(M48A3) its suspension is riding too high which means that it is lacking that appearance of being weighed down and thus appears taller.

Yes, Tamiya based theirs on a tank w/out an engine in it.  It sits 3mm too high.  It is an easy fix though.  All you need to do is cut the tubular bar off the bump stops and lower them, allowing the suspension to be lowered 3mm.  You can see the correction on the Magach 3 I did a while ago.

kustommodeler1,

I have Revell/Monogram classic 1/35 scale Patton on the way, and would like some ideas on accessories to dress it up a little if y'all don't mind.

Scratch built tarps, bed rolls, chain link fence, cables, ammunition boxes, stowage of all sorts and even wood stowage boxes.

To split hairs over the 'scale' debate is no dressing up your tank or answering the original question.

'If it looks right than it is!'

Look at pictures of your tank in action from combat photographs of Vietnam. It will give the best examples of how the crew decked out their tank and what sort of gear they needed to survive.

I think I know why the Tamiya has the higher profile. If you look closely at the running gear of both the Monogram kit and the Tamiya kit the Monogram kit(M48A2) sits lower due to to the appearance of being wieghed down by armor and engine which is actually normal as by how the suspension arms sit. But on the Tamiya kit(M48A3) its suspension is riding too high which means that it is lacking that appearance of being weighed down and thus appears taller.  One thin I do notice about the tracks on both kits the monogram tracks actually look like the real thing with the monogram tracks being noticably thicker. The Tamiya tracks are very thin and  just don't look the part you would just be better off using the AFV club tracks on the Monogram kit and using the Monogram tracks on the Tamiya kit.

The only thing I bet my life on is that some day it will end.

I am curious to compare not for the scale but for the detail and match them to pictures to see who got what right and wrong.

The only reason I bought the A2 was because I was going to use either for a M67A2 flame tank or eventually a scratch build M55 and/or M53. But I read that the 1/11ACR (of which I served in the early 1980s)used them when they ran out of A3 models around 1970. So you'll see a few army M48 A2s.....or was that A1s. I forgot...oh well. I have to check the books again.

But future builds will be M67A2 and the SPH/G models. Monogram is supposedly reissuing the M55 in 1/32 and I am going to use that with the A2 to scratch build a M55...or try.

I'm a bit late on this.  I have an original Monogram kit.  The old box with a copyright of 1959 on it.  There is an old catalog inside with all the neato vehicles Monogram made at that time.  The  M3 halftrack, the jeep, weasel, the figures and a couple of others.  It is indeed close to the Tamiya kit in size as others here have said and posted pictures.  Now the other competitor in the field back then, late 50's, early 60's was Renwall.  I still have a few of their old kits around.  Bigger for sure.  I'd assume they are 1/32 scale, as said before, compared to Monograms 1/35.  Even back then, we kids knew that Renwall and Monogram were on different paths.  I was somewhat surprised that Monogram went to 1/32 with their  Pzkfw IV and M4 and M3 and others in the late 60's and early 70's.  Tamiya was making inroads and we thought that 1/35 would be the standard scale.  Eventually it did.  Monograms brief flirtation with it was a dead end.  But I'm happy they are releasing even those, as they were nice kits to build, easy with some nice simple features.  And not too expensive.  Perfect for beginers .

A buddy of mine just built this a month ago as soon as it came out, just for fun.  We compared it to a Tamiya kit i had built up, and they were darn close to the same size.

Sometimes it is useful to be an old fossil with not only the memory, but the evidence in hand.

I'm happy that no one here collects on life bets.

Kustommodeler, here's thelink to my M48 by Tamiya which I just finished. This might give you some ideas on weathering, detailing, and whatnot. Down in the middle of the post is the finished pics.

Doog's M48

I know you weren't the one. The basic argument is that the Monogram kit is bigger than the Tamiya kit because it was made in a larger scale. But they're both the same size, regardless of scale, which is why I said they were both good enough or both bad enough (in scale size). The fact is they are the same size and would therefore be the same scale regardless of what scale that turns out to be.

Rob Gronovius

That point's really moot because the 44 year old kit is virtually identical in size to the 30 year old kit. They both got it good enough (or wrong enough) to be basically the same size. The argument was that the kits were of different scale and that the Monogram one was bigger than the Tamiya one.

As shown in Stikpusher's photos, the kits are identical in size and both of them are listed as the same scale. You could probably make the argument that the Monogram kit that was argued to be the larger scale actually appears marginally smaller than the Tamiya kit which should have been smaller of the two.

I wasn't making an argument about anything except  that the only way to verify the scale of any kit is to check its dimensions against the prototype.  It's faulty logic to assume that just because the two models are the same size that  they are both precisely 1/35 scale.  Chances are that they are, but the only way to confirm is to actually measure them.  I was not the one making the argument that the Monogram kit was 1/32.

Mark

That point's really moot because the 44 year old kit is virtually identical in size to the 30 year old kit. They both got it good enough (or wrong enough) to be basically the same size. The argument was that the kits were of different scale and that the Monogram one was bigger than the Tamiya one.

As shown in Stikpusher's photos, the kits are identical in size and both of them are listed as the same scale. You could probably make the argument that the Monogram kit that was argued to be the larger scale actually appears marginally smaller than the Tamiya kit which should have been smaller of the two.

Rob Gronovius

RedCorvette:

I drive by a M60 parked in front of the VFW hall everyday on the way to work.  Maybe I'll stick my tape measure in the car one day this week.  ;)

Mark

 

 

It wouldn't do much good to the arguement, the M60 hull is different from the M48 hull so the measurements wouldn't be good basis for comparison.

I know they are different.  M60's had also been mentioned in the thread.  Just trying to lighten up the discussion a bit.

The subtle point I was trying to make was that it's silly to spend so much time comparing two models to each other to determine which one is "right" - at some point you need to compare them with the dimensions of the actual prototype.

Mark

The two sets are the only AFV accessory sets Academy makes in 1/35. I would just suggest using the US metal Water cans not the later plastic Israeli ones unless you will upgrade to a later Israeli Patton. The figures are not quite right for Israelis though being more Early Vietnam with M-14s and such type gear.

Howdy folks the machine is here!!!! I found a copyright date in the plastic, it's on the bottom of the turret housing, and it says 1966.

That reminds me I DID build one of these before. Way back in '76. I had plum forgot. But anyways, this new release has both American and Israeli versions options.

Stikpusher, do you have any kit numbers for the AFV sets you mentioned? What would I need to do, If anything, if I decide to build the Israeli version as far as goodies to carry on the tank? Would the figures in the kit be wrong for Israeli soldiers? Sorry about the dumb-&*$ questions, I've been a car modeler and a few aircraft builder all my life.

Thanks SO much folks!

RedCorvette

I drive by a M60 parked in front of the VFW hall everyday on the way to work.  Maybe I'll stick my tape measure in the car one day this week.  ;)

Mark

 

It wouldn't do much good to the arguement, the M60 hull is different from the M48 hull so the measurements wouldn't be good basis for comparison.

Hans, I don't think I'm splitting hairs, I know I'm right. If it was 1/32 scale, it would be noticeably larger in most dimensions to the Tamiya kit.

I've dug out my unbuilt circa 1972 1/35 scale (clearly stated on the box top) Monogram M48A2 courtesy of eBay and a partially built Tamiya M48A3 kit that I was updating with Verlinden's M48-M60 Upddate set once upon a time. Suffice it to say, I could mate the Monogram upper hull (about the only real thing needed to make it an "A2") to the lower hull of the Tamiya A3 with no difficulty. The turret sizes are virtually identical as well. The taller height of the Tamiya M48A3 is a fairly well known issue and a relatively easy (but a pain it the butt) fix by adjusting the road wheel arms so the tank sits lower. Gino did a good WIP about this some time ago.

After looking over the Monogram kit, it's not bad for its age. I can't find a date on the actual plastic, but the instructions I have are copyrighted 1966 & 1972 and comes with the one page Shep Paine diorama insert (those were the best, weren't they?). If I were to make an M48A2, I'd definitely go the conventional route and mate the Monogram upper hull to the Tamiya lower hull and add the Monogram cupola to the Tamiya turret along with other details.

I do remember having my dad help me build the "Love Bug" kit when I was young. It was probably 1972, when I was 8, because I recall asking my dad why our tank did not look like the one on the box insert. I know it was a veteran of the Sand Box Wars and I remember my dad using some sort of gray epoxy to reattach the road wheel arms when they would break off.

As far as the pirated Academy kit, I remember it well and built it and painted it to look like the M48A5 I crewed as a kid. It came in a white box with a photo of the built kit complete with hull snorkel. It was not built as well as Stikpusher's kits (nice job on those for a quarter century ago). That pirated version still exists as the Ironside M67 flametank kit.

Yes, the Academy M48A3 is a "rebox" of the Tamiya kit, and their A5 is a modified "rebox"(read pirated )...

Same scale....

Did y'all know Academy made one too.....a M48A3.

OK, I have too much time on my hands before work. Don't laugh too hard at the quality of the builds as they are all over 25 years ago and were hand painted... No airbrush in those days... The green Monogram M48 was built OOB, as was the Tamiya. The Sand M48 had some mods done- replaced cupola, added handholds from stretched sprue on turret, up gunned to 105mm main gun.

Tamiya M48 TC along with other Tamiya TC figure and Monogram TC

Tamiya M48 between Monogram M48s. The Tamiya is just a bit shorter lengthwise...

Tamiya and Monogram M48s side to side and back to back.Tamiya has a taller profile

Hans von Hammer

Wish I still had the figures of the Monogram TC/driver to compare with the Tamiya TC/driver... 

 

I still have them. The Monogram figures are nowhere near the size of their 1/32 figures of their later armor releases... They look more 1/35 to the Mk.I eyeball.

I've got the old 1970s issue of the Monogram kit handy, but I'll have to dig to get a Tamiya M48A3. I've got the Sgt York handy and can compare the hulls to one another when I get home from work.

I drive by a M60 parked in front of the VFW hall everyday on the way to work.  Maybe I'll stick my tape measure in the car one day this week.  ;)

Mark

Well know you got me thinking that I am going to find a site that has some dimensions of the M48 and see if indeed which is right if any. I know by looking at it that the Tamiya kit's turret is short and squat and has a funny angle.

As for being too high, I'm not sure. Doog did make it lower and it does look right. He also did the turret mod and that helped too. But it's very hard to deal with two dimensions. Adding a third dimension helps. having it in you hand with a rule and some numbers will help. I think it's possible the Tamiya hull is too thin.

I drove a bunch of m113s. ITVs and 577 vehicles and the Tamiya stuff is close but not right. It's a feel thing I did not do the measurements. Again it seems the hull is too thing here to. But not by much. It could just be perception and not reality,

The human mind is notorious for distorting reality. Having the mind interpret scale might be one of those things. Just because it's correct in scale does not mean our mind sees it correctly.

I have an Academy M60 dozer blade(the M728 conversion kit is coming), the tamiya M48 and a monogram M48 coming off ebay. So i think I will get all those hulls out with a rule and calipers and see if I can find some dimensions(I think there are a few websites with them) and do some home work.

Hans von Hammer

Bottom line is that when I'm looking at both, the Monogram hull is longer, wider, and higher than the Tamiya hull... That tells me ONE of 'em is wrong, if 1/35th is the scale for both. 

It may be that BOTH of them are wrong.   ;)

My curiosity may inspire me to dig my old Monogram kit out of the stash this evening and do some measuring...

Mark

Hans, you are wrong. Monogram originally produced kits in 1/35 scale, then switched to 1/32 scale to follow Airfix's nice but short line of armor. ...

T...he difference in actual size between the Tamiya M48A3 and the Monogram M48A2 is more a factor of the amount of accuracy used in 1958 vs 1978 (or whenever the Tamiya kit was designed). Even the newer Academy M48A5K kit has some scale issues when compared to the Tamiya kit.... 

Ok, I think you're splitting hairs, Rob... IF the Monogram Patton is 1/35th scale, and the Tamiya M48 is 1/35th scale, then WHY is the Monogram hull larger all around than the Tamiya hull? (I can't check the turrets because the Monogram turret is long gone.. I built the tank first, then a few months later, tore it down to make a CEV out of it, then a few months after that, tore THAT down for an AVLB project..)

Scale fidelity and Robert Reder be damned , which tank scales out to an ACCURATE 1/35th scale model?  Because I can only go by what's written on the boxes, and what I've see before me with both hulls... 

Bottom line is that when I'm looking at both, the Monogram hull is longer, wider, and higher than the Tamiya hull... That tells me ONE of 'em is wrong, if 1/35th is the scale for both. 

Wish I still had the figures of the Mongram TC/driver to compare with the Tamiya TC/driver...

BigDaddyBluesman

Is that the new issue or an older issue?

I think I ordered the new issue. I will let y'all know when I get it. Unless someone has purchased the latest issue we just don't know for sure, do we.

They're the same.  I recently picked up a re-issued one.  Built my first one back in 1962. 

I always remember it as being 1/35 scale.  I think Rob is on the right track that any difference has more to do with the accuracy of the original tooling than anything else.  A lot of older kits don't scale out accurately when you measure them.  

Mark 

BigDaddyBluesman

Is that the new issue or an older issue?

I think I ordered the new issue....

They are the same kit.  It is a reissue of the old kit.  Everything is the same down to the decals.  The only new item is the box, which even has similar boxart to the older versions.

Is that the new issue or an older issue?

I think I ordered the new issue. I will let y'all know when I get it. Unless someone has purchased the latest issue we just don't know for sure, do we.

Hans, you are wrong. Monogram originally produced kits in 1/35 scale, then switched to 1/32 scale to follow Airfix's nice but short line of armor. They produced a few more kits in 1/32 scale, mainly the Sherman, Grant/Lee and Panzers. Then they went back and relabeled their original 1/35 scale kits (Patton, US halftrack, M34, Weasel, etc.) as 1/32. Sort of like Airfix does with their 1/76 vs. "1/72" scale kits. same kits, different scales labeled based on what's popular.

The Patton was originally listed in 1958 as 1/35 scale. In 1972 it "became" 1/32 scale.

My reference is the Monogram book by Robert Reder, one of the original founders of the company. It is dated 2000.

The difference in actual size between the Tamiya M48A3 and the Monogram M48A2 is more a factor of the amount of accuracy used in 1958 vs 1978 (or whenever the Tamiya kit was designed). Even the newer Academy M48A5K kit has some scale issues when compared to the Tamiya kit. It's the same sized kit but they shrunk the tracks in order to get them to fit under the Korean armor side skirts.

One of 'em is wrong then Gino... I got 'em both, the Tamiya and the Mongram, and they AIN'T the same size... The hull of the Monogram tank is visibly bigger, even to the nekkid eye...

The Monogram M48A2 is and always has been 1/35.  Monogram relabeled it 1/32 in the 70's to "match" the scale of their other 1/32 armor kits.  It scales out pretty closed with the Tamiya 1/35 M48A3 and many of the more accurate parts off of it are interchangeable.