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make your own m1a2 oif decals

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  • Member since
    November 2012
make your own m1a2 oif decals
Posted by t-bolt on Saturday, August 31, 2013 5:14 AM

Hi Guys,

since it is hard to get custom decals in my city, I plan to make my own using plain decal paper.

looking at tamiya m1a2 oif decal, there are only 2 type of m1a2 tanks which participate in OIF:

2nd Platoon, F Company, 2nd Batallion, 3rd ACR,  Iraq, April 2003

4nd Platoon, F Company, 2nd Batallion, 3rd ACR,  Iraq, April 2003

Is these correct? are there more platoon or company or ACR?

And what are  the words for decal no 17?

that is the one that you you put in the front of the tank, middle position.

Can somebody please let me know?



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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by ajlafleche on Saturday, August 31, 2013 8:44 AM

First, understand, Tamiya give you the markings for two individual tanks in from one company (F). The rest of the tanks in each platoon/company/battalion/regiment would have had different markings. It's as if you had a model of a Porsche in Flying Lizard livery for their two cars at a particular race. You can't assume they were the only Porsches at the start line.

As to making your decals, if you use clear paper, black is the only color that will be fully opaque (it may be all you need, however.)

You are on the computer so you have access to so you can search for Echelon decals. Here's what is available \right now on Ebay and there are likely some at many on line shops as well:

www.ebay.com/.../i.html

Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by t-bolt on Saturday, August 31, 2013 10:07 AM
Thanks for the reply and the link.
However, I can only find echelon decals for m1a2 SEP variants only.
Have the SEP variants the same outer appearance as the regular m1a2?

And it does not have the decal in the middle front position as in tamiya instruction.
I am very curious about that one.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Saturday, August 31, 2013 10:59 AM

The 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment does not contain any "battalions" (did not contain in 2003, now their makeup is different). Because of historical and traditional reasons, United States Cavalry organizations are designated as squadrons (but are battalion-sized units) within the regiment.

Back then, an ACR (Armored) comprised of three ACS (Armored Cavalry Squadrons or ground squadrons), a Regimental Aviation Squadron and a Regimental Support Squadron. Tanks are only located in the three ground squadrons.

The ground squadrons contained three Cavalry Troops (company sized units), a Headquarters Troop (HHT), a tank company (the tank unit is always called a company) and an artillery battery (a traditional name for a company-sized artillery unit). Additionally, the Cavalry troops had two Cavalry platoons and two tank platoons (usually the second and fourth platoons, with 1st and 3rd platoons being the Bradley platoons).

Because it is organized as a regiment, the company/troop lettering is sequential. First Squadron contains A Troop, B Troop, C Troop and D Company (tank); 2nd Squadron contains E Troop, F Troop, G Troop and H Company (tank); 3rd Squadron contains I Troop, K Troop, L Troop and M Company (tank).

There is never a J company or troop because long ago a script letter "I" could be confused with a "J", so they skipped over J.

Bottom line, the markings are correct, but Tamiya's identification should replace the word battalion with squadron. Based on the organization I listed, you should be able to extrapolate just about any tank bumper number in the regiment.

As to the word in the center of the tank on decal #17, it looks to be a tank name.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Saturday, August 31, 2013 11:55 AM

t-bolt
Thanks for the reply and the link.
However, I can only find echelon decals for m1a2 SEP variants only.
Have the SEP variants the same outer appearance as the regular m1a2?

And it does not have the decal in the middle front position as in tamiya instruction.
I am very curious about that one.

Most modelers couldn't identify a SEP from a non-SEP tank. One of the main visual differences was moving the auxiliary power unit from the bustle rack to the left rear interior of the hull. Unless you looked at the bustle rack or the rear corner or the hull, you couldn't really tell one from the other. The straight M1A2 was a rather rare tank; only a few units such as the 4th ID, a couple of battalions of the 1st Cav and the 3rd ACR fielded them. When the Armor Center was at Fort Knox, they had a few for training.

Most units received the M1A1AIM and a few units received the M1A2SEP. I believe all M1A2 tanks have been rebuilt into M1A2SEP.

Now in foreign use, Egypt, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia use the M1A2. 

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by t-bolt on Monday, September 2, 2013 2:30 AM

Hi Rob,

Thank you for the detailed reply!   Yes

It is very enjoyable reading and I learn a lot from reading it.  

Looking at the tamiya kit.

It has the APU on the bustle rack so it is definitely no SEP version.

Is that correct?

And do you know where can I get more information about the M1A2 tank names / logo that they put on the barrel or  other parts?

Do you have some links?

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Monday, September 2, 2013 8:55 AM

The Tamiya M1A1/A2 OIF kit is of a basic, non-SEP M1A2 tank.  Echelon decals makes a decal set that has a bunch of barrel names for 4 ID M1A2s.  They also do a couple sets that have full markings for 4ID tanks as well.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Monday, September 2, 2013 10:53 AM

Just remember, while the tank bumper number will remain constant, the tank name can change at the whim of the crew or tank commander. Just because a tank had one name in one photo, doesn't mean it had a name back home or when crew members rotated out.

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by t-bolt on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 1:29 AM

The decals are finished.

It is easier than I thought,

you only need a image editing program like photoshop to edit the decals properly.

The plain decal paper is thicker that the regular decal that come with the kits.

However, I manage to cut it as close to the black ink..

Here are some pictures:









  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 5:40 AM

Looks pretty good.  There are a few issue I see though.  First is the box you have on the right rear of the hull.  It is an APU that was used in the late '80s to early '90s and was replaced by the one in the rear bustle rack.  It should not be there as both are not carried and the external rear hull onewas not used on M1A2s .  Second isthe  missing tow pintle on the rear of the hull in the center.  It also looks like you are missing the lower towing lugs on the rear hull as well.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by t-bolt on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 6:51 AM

Thanks for the comment,  HeavyArty.

You are absolutely right about the 3 missing parts: tow pintle and lower towing lugs.

For some unknown reason, I forget to put them.

I am going to fix it soon.

Do I need to paint them  gun metal or the same desert sand color as the rest of the body?

You also right about the rear APU, I did not know about it.

My model is trumpeter, and in the manual, they did not tell what parts to put to make a proper M1A2.

They only tell you that this part is an option, you can choose to make it or not.

I should post here, and asking question first  before I glue the model.

Now it is too late.

I try to pull it a part, however the glue (I use tamiya extra thin) is strong,

I am afraid to damage the model.

Or maybe I should cut it?

Please let me know if you have better ideas.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 7:50 AM

The tow pintle and towing lugs should be the same color as the rest of the hull.  I would try cutting the APU off myself, but that is just me.  I am a bit of a perfectionist.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 9:33 AM

We ditched the external APU by 1991. It was basically a Honda generator in a metal box that was prone to getting beat up as you traveled cross country. It was a fuel saving device that allowed the crew to run the communications, optics and fire control system without the need to have the fuel guzzling engine running.

When we switched from a Cold War defensive army to an offensive army, the need to have a generator on every tank was negated.

Personally, I'd leave it. The Trumpeter kit is very dated and suffers from other errors that were not addressed. Overall, it looks like you built a good representation of an Abrams tank.

While I can't tell from your photograph, it looks like you painted the tail lights amber. Both of the tail lights should be painted red, just like a car's.

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by t-bolt on Wednesday, September 4, 2013 3:25 AM

The tall lights are painted clear red over silver.
This is an experiment of mine, I read it somewhere from the net.
However you are right, the result is not very red.
I have painted the clear red several times, but it seems the paint is very translucent.
Do you know what I did wrong?

Yes I hear that the trumpeter kit is not very accurate.
However I pick it because it is very cheap, I get it less than usd10.
This tank is my first plastic kit after 40 years hiatus, I have just returned to this hobby.
So I think i better start with cheap kit, just in case my skill is not up to standard and ruin the kit.

This kit is the first time I do some airbrushing, drybrushing and wash.
The oil wash turns out to be a disaster, the thinner ate the paint even after I use future over it,
so I switch to pastel powder with water wash.  

And I finally manage to get rid of the APU, here are some more pictures:












What do you guys think about my wash and drybrushing?
Is it too subtle?
Your comments are very welcomed.

Rob, can you elaborate in more details what other major error this kit has?
I would like to know, maybe it can be fix.

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: On my kitchen counter top somewhere in central North Carolina.
Posted by disastermaster on Wednesday, September 4, 2013 5:00 AM

  Considering what you had to work with, this looks pretty dern good.

http://www.intpforum.com/images/smilies/smiley_emoticons_kilroy.gif  The "ONE" biggest thing you can remember to do next time is to hollow out the barrel on that main gun.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/5904/n26e.jpg

 https://i.imgur.com/LjRRaV1.png

 

 

 
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:04 AM

It is looking good to me.  I prefer subtle weathering.  

The Trumpeter kit has a few issues.  The biggest being the left front corner of the turret is not tall enough.  The angle on the lower side is wrong which makes the face too short.  The roadwheel rubber center pieces are sloppy and not well defined too.  There are other issues with it as well.

 You can see a full rundown in Vodnik's great comparison article.

http://vodnik.republika.pl/pages/m1-comparison/m1comp1.htm

 

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Wednesday, September 4, 2013 10:59 AM

I understand building a cheaper kit when you are returning to the hobby; no sense in going expensive.

Another error I see from your second set of photos is the commander's M2HB machine gun. You added the blank firing adapter (the large item on the tip with the three rods). It is used during exercises to allow the machine gun to fire blank ammunition. It would not be installed a vehicle in combat.

As far as the tail light, I would have just painted it a gloss red.

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by t-bolt on Thursday, September 5, 2013 4:41 AM

Thanks for kind words and the comments, disastermaster, HeavyArty & Rob   :D

Rob, you are right about the blank firing adaptor,
I did not know what is it except it looks cool to me, so I build it.

And looking at the vodnik site:
http://vodnik.republika.pl/pages/m1-comparison/m1comp6.htm

I find the name of the extra parts that come with the trumpeter kits, such as:
- antenna mast as used on tanks in NTC in the Mojave Desert,
- three piece Hoffman main gun firing simulator device
- warning / hit indicator light with guard support plate

are these parts installed on OIF M1A2 tanks ?

And how about mine roller kit and TWMP?
Are these used on M1A2 tanks?

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:37 AM

- antenna mast as used on tanks in NTC in the Mojave Desert,

- three piece Hoffman main gun firing simulator device

- warning / hit indicator light with guard support plate

The above items, along with the blank firing adaptor are used only in training for simulated combat against other US forces who play the enemy.  They are all part of the MILES (Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement System) gear.  They are not used in combat.

M1A2s can and do mount rollers and TWMPs.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by t-bolt on Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:33 AM

thanks for the explanation, HeavyArty

about M1A2 tanks that use mine roller kit and TWMP,

can I know what platoon and company?

I want to make the appropriate decals for it.

are these information available on the web?

one more question: on the trumpeter decals, there are these words:

LDR DVR GNR TC.

where should I put them on the tank?

there are no instruction about them.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, September 5, 2013 7:41 AM

Usually, every company has a couple blade and/or plow tanks.  There is no set vehicle number that can or does carry them.  It depends on the mission and what is needed where.  Often, the Co XOs tank (A65 for example) carries them.

The LDR, DVR, GNR, TC decals are sometimes placed on each of the four 40mm ammo cans that Trumpeter has for you to add onto the rear turret bustle rack.  They denote a 40mm ammo can for storage for the LoaDeR,  DriVeR, GunNeR, and Tank Commander.  Some units use the ammo cans and some do not.

Sorry I can't be more specific, but ther are no set rules on these.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by t-bolt on Thursday, September 5, 2013 8:07 AM

So it is acceptable to put mine roller and TWMP to 2nd Platoon, F Company, the tank that I built?

Thanks for the decal explanation. That really  clears the matter.

I am putting the CIP panels and the stowage on the tank now.
I notice that spare wheels that on hull rack is often painted dark green,
why is that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M1-A1_Abrams_1.jpg

why don't you paint the spare wheel desert sand like the rest of the tank?

And I have to make the antenna by stretching the sprue.
How long should the antenna be?
Should both left and right antenna be the same length?

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Thursday, September 5, 2013 9:35 AM

Spare wheels come from the manufacturer painted in green. The crews don't bother to paint them until the tank goes in for a new paint job. The type of paint used on the tanks is hazardous and special equipment must be worn while painting.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, September 5, 2013 10:33 AM

Rob covered the spare roadwheel.  For teh antenna, in 1/1 scale, they are 8' long.  In 1/35 scale, they are 2 3/4 inches long.  Both antennas are the same.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by t-bolt on Thursday, September 5, 2013 11:37 AM

Thanks for the replies Rob & HeavyArty.

I am using tamiya paint, what kind of green is suitable?

Dark green or olive?

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, September 5, 2013 11:55 AM

Dark green.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by t-bolt on Friday, September 6, 2013 1:42 AM

I am making the stowage and I am going to put them in the bustle rack and on the side of the turret

Is there any rules that i should know?

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Friday, September 6, 2013 5:00 AM

Nope, some units have an SOP (Standard Operating Procedures - unit rules and regulations) that shows where each tank will put their gear.  Most of the time this goes out the window when you are actually in combat though.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by t-bolt on Friday, September 6, 2013 6:26 AM

Thanks, HeavyArty. for all the replies.  Yes

I am still not very clear about  mine rollers and TWMP
You wrote that usually every company has some tanks with mine rollers and TWMP,
so does it mean that I can put mine rollers or TWMP to any tanks?
Would it be acceptable?

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Friday, September 6, 2013 9:52 AM

Yes, they can be put on any tank.  Where they go within the company or battalion depends on the mission.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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