wbill76

 

Bish

Bill, a quick question. I am useing a similar approach to what you did on the Neubau-Fahrzeug. I have applied a Raw Sienna wash and will do some dot filtering later. But i was woundering what you do about the wheels at this stage. Do you give them any treatment or just leave until the pigments. 

 

 

 

It depends Bish, sometimes the wheels will get a wash treatment to supplement the pigment weathering, sometimes I just leave them alone. For darker colored wheels like Panzer Gray, there's not much point in doing much to them since it will get lost under the pigment effects regardless. Lighter colored wheels often get a wash as an added 'layer' to their finish. HTH! 

 

Thanks Bill. I gave mine a light dry brush, but i was thinking along the same lines.

Great details with the radios And the painting. Everything is looking great Bish.

Hey Bish, glad you're getting what you want on the finish with the dot filters. Funny---did you realize you're actually using a filter there too, albeit in a more concentrated form?

By the way, try sanding down a sitting figure's butt. Real people "sink" into a seat more than a figure ever appears to, and you can also lop off the boots and shorten the calves a bit--you won't really be able to tell once you put the figure in the model. Little modifications like that sometimes help me fit them in. 

the doog

Hey Bish, glad you're getting what you want on the finish with the dot filters. Funny---did you realize you're actually using a filter there too, albeit in a more concentrated form?

By the way, try sanding down a sitting figure's butt. Real people "sink" into a seat more than a figure ever appears to, and you can also lop off the boots and shorten the calves a bit--you won't really be able to tell once you put the figure in the model. Little modifications like that sometimes help me fit them in. 

 

Thanks Karl, and yes, i realised this is a filter, but i find this method much better than the pre made ones which i just don't like.

Thnaks for the suggestion on the figure. The butt was already flat, but reading this has made me realised the problem area was the figures lower back. I should really have sanded that as i wasn't taking into account that the figure and seat back are hard when in real life they have some give in them. I should have thought of that. But he is in place  now, but certainly somthing i should really think about in future.

Thanks PJ.

Well, as anyone who has built one of these 251 kits will know, there is a bit of a trick to getting the front wheels to sit right. But this is the worst i have seen. Unfortunatly i left it until this late stage, but luckly i can deal with the issue with the base.

But i was woundering if anyone has figured out why this problem occurs. If the main suspension is right and the front suspension is the correct height, which it looks to be, this should nto happen.

Karl, i was just going through your /17 build from a few years back, should have checke dthat sooner. But when you added the weight go get the front wheels sitting right, was the main suspension already set because i can't quite figure out how adding the weight is helping the front to sit low enough.

Bish

Well, as anyone who has built one of these 251 kits will know, there is a bit of a trick to getting the front wheels to sit right. But this is the worst i have seen. Unfortunatly i left it until this late stage, but luckly i can deal with the issue with the base.

But i was woundering if anyone has figured out why this problem occurs. If the main suspension is right and the front suspension is the correct height, which it looks to be, this should nto happen.

It happens because the suspension needs to also take into account the added height from the track pads. The Dragon 251 C kits have it worse than the D kits but it's possible to leave the front suspension workable by not gluing it all the way down as the instructions indicate you should do. That is usually enough to compensate for the height difference once the tracks are added depending. It was quite a shock the first time I built one of their kits as everything sat nice and pretty right up until I added the tracks and the front wheels suddenly levitated off the ground as a result. 

Bill, the onlt isue with that is that on pics of the real thing, the front wheels don't appear any lower when sitting on a hard surface that the kit front suspenion is. I know the track pads do make it seem to sit rather high.

When you say about not gluing the front suspension, which bit do you mean. I have not glued the springs into position, so the suspension can move that way. Do you mean the square piece that fits into the bottom of the hull.

I can get around it this time by puting the tracks into soft ground, but its a bit of a pain for hard surfaces.

You're right about how the actual vehicle sits, unfortunately, Dragon didn't take that fully into consideration in their overall kit design with the C kits. They almost fixed it in the Ds, but not 100%. The key to making the front workable involves some careful gluing and assembly. I spell out the steps in this build log of a 251/22 D, IIRC you can do the same thing on the C suspension. http://www.bpmodels.net/Model/Album/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=98 HTH!  

Thnaks Bill. I didn't glue this at the same points you indicated, i learnt that from an earlier build, but i also didn't do the test fitting fitting at an early stage. This is definatly worse that the Dragon Ausf D i did and the AFV club kit (not tried one of their C's yet). I think another issue with this is all the gear in the back seems to make it slightly tail heavy, it does seem to sit sligthly back. A little weight at the front and it might have been fine.

O well, i can get over it this time and just have to be more careful in future. I should have learnt by now really.

Work on the weathering has come along really well, i am rather please with my first Pz Grey. The outside was giving the dot filtering treatment. I use oil paints for this, MiG Faded grey and German grey and W&N white. This was followed by some AK streaking grime. The aim here for me was to create the ground in dusty look of a vehicle thats been in the field a long time.

Thewn i was finally able to add the wheels tracks and tools. One lesson for next time. Even though the wheels will be given a dusting, i think they would be better if painted a slightly lighter grey. Rigt now, it looks like its had a complete set of brand new wheels fitted, thoguh that has given me an idea for future builds. Also, there is the slight floating of the front wheels i mentioned earlier, but this can be solved on the base.

Next up, the dirtying up. I started out with a coat of AK dust effects inside and out. Then straight away i removed some in areas where it might be brushed or fall away. This included the sides, engine hatches, parts of the seats, around the forward MG shield and some parts on top of the radio's.

And then once that had dried, it was back to the spray booth. It got anotehr light coat of dust and then lower down seome earther and dark earth effects.

So, next up will be a flat coat folowed by the pigments before i can fit this to the base.

And speaking of the base, i felt now was the time to add the ground work. I was aksed about useing Celluclay earlier, so this is how i do it. The tols for this job are some acrylic paint, a jug and an old trusty army issue fork, white glue and the celluclay. I have to get this last thing on line. This bag cost abotu £10, but i have had this a couple of years and so far it done about half dozen bases, includeing a couple bigger than this one.

I then guesstemate how much i need, the intention being to make up a litle more than i need. That usually works, but now and again it doesn't.

I then add some brown paint, white glue and a small bit of water. The less water you have to use the better, as it does shrink, which is why i make more than i need.

Now, i don't get to upo tight about getting the right colour, its not like i travel the world collecting soil samples. But i do a bit of research to get a rough colour. This dio is set in the black soil of the Russian Steppe. So i added a bit of black paint until i had the colour i wanted.

Then it time to add it to the base. Tikme for that trusty old fork again.

I normally bring this in doors so it dries faster and leave the excess in the shed. But i didn't want this to dry to fast so left it outside.

And the question your of course asking your self is did i have enough.

Well, of course i did. Never in doubt.

And i even had some left over, which is handy because tonight i topped up around the edges where it had shrunk a little.

I often add the foliage after it dries. But because i want the 251 to sit slightly into the ground, i will add the foiage tomorrow in the area the vehcile will sit, then once i have done the pastels, i can add it. I can then leave the base to dry properly before finishing it off.

Bish the track came out great. I really dose have that used hard during the summer look.  Thanks for the info about the celluclay and how you use it. 

Robert

Looks like you've built up the weathering layers to the point you want it Bish, looking forward to seeing the base come together on this project. 

Thanks guys. The base is coming on and the vehiclke is now attached, getting close to the finish now.

Thanks buddy, and the base is really coming along, should have some more pics by the end of the weekend.

Managed to get this wrapped up tonight. After the last up date, all thats was left was a flat coat and then some pigments. I use MiG pigments and really like these as they can be build up in areas where the dust would build up. I mx the pigment with water and apply wet. Once dry, its just a case of removing the excess. As soon as the pigemnts were done, i fitted the 251 to the base before it got to dry.

As for the base, i had originally considered use the grass mat's by MiG, in this case the Stoney Steppe mat. But these are rather expensive and i would have needed 2. Haveing had a close look at the image of these mats, i figured i could replicate it myself. So useing what i already had and a few extra bits, this is what i ended up with. I may have gone a bit OTT with the stoney bit of it, but i do rather like it. As well as the stones i used some flock and lts of grass tufts.

And with that done, i could put the base to one side to dry fully and get the figures finished. I also got the antrenna's added and a few more bits into the vehicle.

After painting and adding the insignia to the figures, they got a bit of ditying up with some flory wash and a ligt dusting with a thin Tamiya XF-55. Then they were added to the base and all was done. I did end up havign to dicth one of the figures. The Dragon one from the Half track set which is designed to stand in a 251 and lean over the side does not stand in a 251 or lean ove rthe side. Even if his feet fitted between the seats, his stance is not as shown on the box, so he is not leaning as much. He would be more suited to a 251 with a section of seats missing, so i will keep him for later. I was half expecting i would not be able to use him, and i still have 8 figures.

So, here is the end result.

And there you have it. I have really enjoyed doing this and have learned a lot about painting and weathering a Pz Grey vehicle. It took me 4 or 5 builds before i was happy weathering a Tri colour camo, and this has come out much better than i had expected.

Thanks all for following along and for all the comments and some great advice as always.

OK, OK, I'm here...... OH? your done?!

Seriously: Really fine work ,Bish.  The addition of base and figures make the Stud Kuff Minder (or whatever) Much more impressive. All the while showing off the skill you used to get it there.

Thanks for the comments guys.

Great work on the 251  Bish.  Also love the base

A great scene and a great job on your weathering and dusting technique.

Damn, Bish! That looks outstanding! The whole dio really compliments the model extremely well! Ha, I'm at a loss for words! Great job!

Bish, great job on this!

The whole scene looks quite natural, and your landscaping skills never fail to amaze me.

regards,

Jack

Gee, somehow I missed seeing you finish this one. Your usual great work Bish, love the 251, the figures, and the groundwork. Most of all I love the way you set up everything on the base, it looks very natural and real.

Thanks guys, the comments are much appreciated. I am really pleased with the base, i am aiming to put more into those. Even the better half likes this one.

Next challenge will be an urban setting.

Beautiful!

Thanks Goat.