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Modelling Patton tank interior in 1:35

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  • Member since
    October 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Monday, January 7, 2019 5:23 PM

I'll see if i can't track down a TM for you. Hopefully the -10 should show you what you need.

Nothing is impossible as long as somebody else has to do it.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Monday, January 7, 2019 4:06 PM

Hello!

Gino, M60_tanker - thanks a lot for your kind words, they mean a lot to me!

M60_tanker - as for the gun mount - I would love to, but I start to feel I lack the reference somewhat. I have some real problems locating a pdf version of the TM-9-2350-257. I've got them for the CEV, its the -222, and they help me a lot, if I could find them also for the M60A1, that would be something.

Now I'll try to post a render with the banana boxes in place and that shouldn't be too hard, as I have those banana boxes are already done in 3D. I have the early sight/rations box already done in styrene, so that shouldn't be too hard neither. I would have the biggest problem with those ready rounds. But eventually I want to draw them in 3D too.My biggest problems here are reference materials and some basic dimensions of parts to start from.

Thanks for reading and have a nice day

Paweł

 

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    October 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Monday, January 7, 2019 1:23 PM

Really looking good Pawel. Are you going to add any detail to the M68 gun mount? I'm also assuming you are using the AFV M60A1/A3 as the start point. I really like your turret basket. Would like to see the drawing with the banana boxes in place. Then all you have left is the sight box w / the 3 round ready rack and the 13 round ready rack on the turret floor. Will you be doing the ready rack located behind the loaders position?

Ray

Nothing is impossible as long as somebody else has to do it.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Sunday, January 6, 2019 6:57 PM

That is looking awesome so far.  I like it.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

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  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Sunday, January 6, 2019 2:22 PM

Hello everybody!

I would like to give you an idea about all the parts I have so far working together. Here's how it would look like if you put them together. Two of the hangers are shown without the tubes - and I have the option of 3D printing the tubes, or leving them off, so that the modeller could substitute some wire - to be decided how it will end up. Of course there's no problem offering both options to be chosen from. OK, the picture:

1:35 M60A1 lower turret assembly by Pawel

I'm still working on the TC's seat and I already made the post a little thinner - it's 2,4mm in diameter now - or 84mm = 3 1/3'' in diameter real life. What would you say, is that right?

Thanks for looking and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, January 4, 2019 5:59 PM

Hello everybody!

I'm working on. Today I'd like to show you another important component of the "Cadillacs" aka in the TMs as the Powerpack or Gunner's Control Unit. Here's what I have:

1:35 M60A1 powerpack - Gunner's Control Unit by Pawel

1:35 M60A1 powerpack - Gunner's Control Unit by Pawel

Again I would like to ask for your comments or remarks, Thanks in advance and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Thursday, January 3, 2019 3:19 PM

Thanks a lot, M60_tanker, for your comment and for your kind words. Have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    October 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Wednesday, January 2, 2019 10:52 AM

As far as I can remember, the A1 and A3 only had the one under the loaders seat. As far as using one in Vietnam, the heater was controlled by the driver. It had a seperate switch and high/low switch Way to hot to even turn on even if it worked at all. Your holy grail is looking good.

Nothing is impossible as long as somebody else has to do it.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Tuesday, January 1, 2019 4:10 PM

Hello!

That's a cool bit of info about that fire extinguisher cooking off... That air duct blowing on it, would it also heat it up in Vietnam? What I mean to ask is can you turn that heat off when it's hot outside?

Rob - my CEV TM also says two extinguishers, one under the loader's seat, the other on the coax ammo box. What were the locations in the -A3?

And today I've got something special for you, my holy Grail:

1:35 M60A1 traverse gearbox assembly by Pawel

What do you say?

Thanks for looking and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, January 1, 2019 10:45 AM

While I never served on an M60A1 of any type, the A3s had two fire extinguishers. Each had a spot in a rack, although I recall one being in the oddment tray.

  • Member since
    October 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Monday, December 31, 2018 2:24 PM

I don't remember a 3 clip pouch. The one's we had were more like a pouch that held around 20 magazines. Yes Caddillac - Gage. Be careful of pictures on the internet, alot of different countries used this tank, and modified it to their taste.

Funny thing about the fire extingusher located under the loaders step. With the turret facing forward, it was right in front of the outlet for the heater tube. If you didn't throw it in the oddment tray, it would eventually cook off and fill the turret with smoke. Scare the crap out of you if it happened at 3: 00 AM.

Nothing is impossible as long as somebody else has to do it.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Monday, December 31, 2018 12:00 PM

Pawel

Hello Rob!

That's interesting about the Abrams - they put M16A2 in it? Must have used up a lot of space.

No, not really. It stores vertically in the commanders station. The barrel goes into the round pipe hole and the bungee cord in the bottom picture holds it in place. The minor problem was the "V" shaped supports that the front grips of the M16 and M16A1 would fit into. The A2 had round grips so it didn't quite fit in the mount as well.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Monday, December 31, 2018 9:14 AM

Hello Rob!

That's interesting about the Abrams - they put M16A2 in it? Must have used up a lot of space.

For my CEV I have built a bit like that:

1:35 M728 CEV by Pawel

That's the space above the instrument panel in the driver's compartment on the right side. As can be seen I have used wrong pouch for the SMG ammo. The SMG is from the Dragon "Modern tankers" set. By the way it's not the entirely right version of it, neither - it has the cocking lever of the M3 A-nothing version, the lever was absent from the more correct A1 version.

I have the traverse gearbox almost ready - I'll post it soon. Till then I would like to wish you all a happy new year!

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Sunday, December 30, 2018 11:32 AM

Since each tanker was issued a .45 as a personal weapon, the grease guns were not assigned to any particular member, although one was often the responsibility of the loader and the other, the driver's.

Each crewman needed to be familiar with the use of the weapon in case of a bailout. Don't know who would be physically able to grab the gun after the tank gets hit.

There was an FM on qualifying the SMG, but we did not bother since it was not a requirement and our ammo requirement was not funded to fully qualify.

We did qualify on the M16A2 our Abrams tanks came with, but it was a brand new weapon and every soldier was already familiar with it.

https://www.amazon.com/Submachine-Guns-Caliber-45-M3A1/dp/1940453119

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, December 29, 2018 7:51 PM

I do remember when I was a brand new cherry TOW gunner in my first line unit. My assigned weapon was a M1911A1 .45, complete with a black leather holster with those wire hooks to attach to my LBE... in 1984. I was also responsible for our M60 machine gun too. 

Layouts were just a bit more enjoyable than busting track... just a bit...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Saturday, December 29, 2018 4:08 PM

Lmao! 

I do not recall anyone sharing fond stories of any inspection lay outs lol!

Apparently that was one of the most miserable events a tanker had to deal with lol.

There are many stories, but no one talks about that inspection lol.

- Mike Brindos "Lost Boy"

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, December 29, 2018 3:39 PM

Pawel
I just love the discussion going on here

It's particularly necessary, too, as what the Book did was different than what the actual Tankers did. 

Partially, that was from the separation of when the tanks & storage were designed, and partially from the fact that the designers did not actually live in the track like the tankers do/did.

Armor Command, for all its foibles, would back up things that made sense for tankers.  Like moving fire extinguishers, or changing stowage poiints.

This is where first-person accounts can be hugely valuable.

I still find it suprising that so few modelers model a "lay out" instpection.  Which is a "junk on the bunk"sight inventory of all the stuff in a track.  This may be because our tread-headed amigos doe not remember those with any joy at all.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, December 29, 2018 3:28 PM

stikpusher
Did those mag pouches have the wire attachment for the grommets on a pistol belt, or cloth loops on the backside?

By the time they got DLA numbers, the M-1910 wire hooks were out of use on those.

Because the Army kept using the M3A3, the contract to make the carriers was extended and continued on for some time.  They eventually got NSN as the production continued.

If IU remember the discussion over on the USMilitaria forum, some collector had one with a 1982 contract date.  Marine tracks often had khaki examples well into the 60s as they were, A, servicable, and B, inside the track.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Saturday, December 29, 2018 2:51 PM

Hello everybody!

I just love the discussion going on here - that's exactly what I have created this thread for.

Mike - glad to hear from you again, it's been a long time! You sure have been an important inspiration to start this whole thing going. First time when you started messing with that M60A1 from AFV Club. Second time when you asked me to make a set of those banana boxes. Back then the technology wasn't available (to me), but then I started learning and now look what cool stuff I can crank out!

Rob, Stick - fam fire! Now that's an insider word! Thanks a lot for explaining this one.

Thanks again for all the comments and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, December 29, 2018 12:16 PM

Thank you for the explanation.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, December 29, 2018 11:31 AM

GMorrison

 

 
Rob Gronovius

When we fam fired the guns, we just used a handful of magazines that were already used.

 

 

 

Please explain.

 

 

Familiarize Fire- shooting a weapon to familiarize with the type. As opposed to qualifying- shooting for record score.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, December 29, 2018 11:17 AM

Rob Gronovius

When we fam fired the guns, we just used a handful of magazines that were already used.

 

Please explain.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Saturday, December 29, 2018 10:41 AM

I don't know. The only time we really messed with them was when we conducted lay out inventory. The magazines were still sealed in aluminum packaging. When we fam fired the guns, we just used a handful of magazines that were already used.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, December 28, 2018 11:05 PM

Rob Gronovius

LOL! Those mag pouches are straight out of WWII & Korea... I know that the Grease Gun was too. I suppose like the mag pouches and holster for the 1911 pistol, they stayed around as long as the weapon did. Did those mag pouches have the wire attachment for the grommets on a pistol belt, or cloth loops on the backside?

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Friday, December 28, 2018 9:13 PM

Aw. How come you were not doing this when I was building my M-60 interrior?

Lol

- Mike Brindos "Lost Boy"

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, December 28, 2018 6:46 PM

Hello Rob!

Thanks a lot, that clears it up. Have a nice day!

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Friday, December 28, 2018 3:32 PM
  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, December 28, 2018 1:42 PM

Hello!

Thanks a lot for your comments! That's what I was looking for.

M60_tanker - it's interesting what you write about the fire extinguisher - I have some references where the fire extinguisher is mounted exactly where I modelled it. I have also seen this space blank, so could it be it's a difference between versions?

Also, the TM I have says the big box feeds the coax directly, and the small box is for grenades. The TM also says the pouch with mags for the grease gun should be stowed in the tray in the bustle, between the main gun ammo and the radio. I've seen the second ammo pouch above the instrument panel, to the right from the driver. By the way, are we talking about a pouch like this?:

Rob - Cadillacs, that's a good one. Then the company would probably be Cadillac-Gage?

I was planning to do a separate fire extinguisher to be mounted under the loader's seat, and I'll probably have to develop a version of the coax ammo box without the extinguisher, too.

Thanks again for your comments and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    October 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Friday, December 28, 2018 12:58 PM

Rob, you are correct. The second one was strapped to the top of the sight box located under the main gun, forward so the driver could use it.

Nothing is impossible as long as somebody else has to do it.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Friday, December 28, 2018 11:58 AM

Gunner's controls were called Cadillacs, I think that was the company that made the controls. The grease gun magazines were stored in a three pouch container that had a spot on the turret wall to affix it. It could be removed and attached to a soldier's web belt. There were two of them.

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