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Modelling Patton tank interior in 1:35

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  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Modelling Patton tank interior in 1:35
Posted by Pawel on Monday, December 24, 2018 6:51 PM

Hello everybody!

Some time ago I got the strange idea to scratchbuild the interior for my Patton. To be exact, I was already very deep in a conversion of the AFV Club M60A1 to the M728 CEV, and the AFV Club model has some interior there. At first I said I'll only do a little bit, things visible through the driver's hatch - but then I started getting TMs for the CEV and the whole project started creeping and I got mired...

Here's the link to my CEV project:

cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/165990.aspx

Then a tanker contacted me with a request for help - he's trying to build an interior for his M60A1. I made some parts for him and re-started my project by the way.

And then I started drawing in 3D and printing some parts - that's a very cool technology. You can see some of my designs here:

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/nam-models

Now here's the idea: since I already need some interior parts for my CEV, and many parts of it are exchangeable with other Patton tanks, I would like to put up parts like gunner's controls, TC's seat, banana boxes so that anyone interested can have them 3D-printed and build their own M60 or M48 tank interior. Maybe eventually I could have complete interiors for 3D printing?

On the other hand I must say thre are not that many references online but I know we have lots of military veterans here on the forums, so I thought maybe those of you who "been there, done that" could give me a hand on this project here. I could also use a TM or two for the M60A1 or the M48A3, for example.

I would like to hear your opinion on this. Who would be interested to build an interior for the Patton tank?

Thanks for reading and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    August, 2012
  • From: Parker City, IN.
Posted by Rambo on Monday, December 24, 2018 9:01 PM
Wow that's some nice items you have really like the M60s and M14s. I'm not very familiar with the Patton but would be interested in what would be visible through the hatch maybe not the full interior.

Clint

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, December 25, 2018 8:57 AM

Somewhere, some place in my garage, I probably still have my M60A3TTS and CEV TMs.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, December 25, 2018 10:30 AM

Wow, that's some nice stuff Pawel!!!

Right now I need to concentrate on just getting something built out of the box but if I ever decide to detail the interior of a M60 I'll know where to look!

 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Thursday, December 27, 2018 2:45 PM

Hello everybody!

Thanks a lot for your comments and your kind words!

Rob - I'm especially counting on you with this one, given your experience with the subject.

And to show you I'm not only writing about it, but also working on the subject for some time, here's a render of the turret floor ammo boxes for the MGs, also known as "banana boxes":

1:35 banana box set for the M60A1 by Pawel

I have based this 3D design on some photos, and on this diagram I have created:

M60A1 turret floor/banana boxes diagram by Pawel

So I'd like to as you for review of my design and your comments. Thanks a lot in advance and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, December 27, 2018 4:19 PM

Looking great so far.  I would eb up for an M6o interior.  Sounds like agreat project and I will be watching.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: http://smg.photobuck...v231/HeavyArty/?

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Thursday, December 27, 2018 5:03 PM

I would buy at least 5 complete kits.

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Thursday, December 27, 2018 5:29 PM

Just took a look at your Shapeways site. Can you model the M-3A1 grease guns with out the magazine. They were stored in the tank with out them.

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, December 28, 2018 10:37 AM

Hello!

Gino - thanks a lot for your kind words. Good thing to know I'm not only doing this for myself, but that also other modellers could use my work.

M60_tanker - funny thing you're asking me that, I've just finished to work on this render when I read your last post:

1:35 M60A1 coax ammo box by Pawel

So the answer is absolutely, but I didn't think people would want to have bigger quantities of grease-guns with the magazines out.

Currently I'm working on the gunners controls (the TMs call it a power-pack) and the turret traverse gearbox. I'll post my results soon.

As always I'd be grateful for any comments or remarks you might have here. Thanks for looking and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Friday, December 28, 2018 11:43 AM

Looking good. Couple of things. In the drawing, the fire extinguisher was not mounted there. It was mounted under the drivers seat. Also, no ammo boxes were inside the turret. All coax ammo was stored in the banana boxes.

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Friday, December 28, 2018 11:58 AM

Gunner's controls were called Cadillacs, I think that was the company that made the controls. The grease gun magazines were stored in a three pouch container that had a spot on the turret wall to affix it. It could be removed and attached to a soldier's web belt. There were two of them.

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Friday, December 28, 2018 12:58 PM

Rob, you are correct. The second one was strapped to the top of the sight box located under the main gun, forward so the driver could use it.

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, December 28, 2018 1:42 PM

Hello!

Thanks a lot for your comments! That's what I was looking for.

M60_tanker - it's interesting what you write about the fire extinguisher - I have some references where the fire extinguisher is mounted exactly where I modelled it. I have also seen this space blank, so could it be it's a difference between versions?

Also, the TM I have says the big box feeds the coax directly, and the small box is for grenades. The TM also says the pouch with mags for the grease gun should be stowed in the tray in the bustle, between the main gun ammo and the radio. I've seen the second ammo pouch above the instrument panel, to the right from the driver. By the way, are we talking about a pouch like this?:

Rob - Cadillacs, that's a good one. Then the company would probably be Cadillac-Gage?

I was planning to do a separate fire extinguisher to be mounted under the loader's seat, and I'll probably have to develop a version of the coax ammo box without the extinguisher, too.

Thanks again for your comments and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Friday, December 28, 2018 3:32 PM
  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, December 28, 2018 6:46 PM

Hello Rob!

Thanks a lot, that clears it up. Have a nice day!

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Friday, December 28, 2018 9:13 PM

Aw. How come you were not doing this when I was building my M-60 interrior?

Lol

- Mike Brindos

Figure Painting Moderator -- Genessis-Models

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, December 28, 2018 11:05 PM

Rob Gronovius

LOL! Those mag pouches are straight out of WWII & Korea... I know that the Grease Gun was too. I suppose like the mag pouches and holster for the 1911 pistol, they stayed around as long as the weapon did. Did those mag pouches have the wire attachment for the grommets on a pistol belt, or cloth loops on the backside?

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Saturday, December 29, 2018 10:41 AM

I don't know. The only time we really messed with them was when we conducted lay out inventory. The magazines were still sealed in aluminum packaging. When we fam fired the guns, we just used a handful of magazines that were already used.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, December 29, 2018 11:17 AM

Rob Gronovius

When we fam fired the guns, we just used a handful of magazines that were already used.

 

Please explain.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, December 29, 2018 11:31 AM

GMorrison

 

 
Rob Gronovius

When we fam fired the guns, we just used a handful of magazines that were already used.

 

 

 

Please explain.

 

 

Familiarize Fire- shooting a weapon to familiarize with the type. As opposed to qualifying- shooting for record score.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, December 29, 2018 12:16 PM

Thank you for the explanation.

 

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Saturday, December 29, 2018 2:51 PM

Hello everybody!

I just love the discussion going on here - that's exactly what I have created this thread for.

Mike - glad to hear from you again, it's been a long time! You sure have been an important inspiration to start this whole thing going. First time when you started messing with that M60A1 from AFV Club. Second time when you asked me to make a set of those banana boxes. Back then the technology wasn't available (to me), but then I started learning and now look what cool stuff I can crank out!

Rob, Stick - fam fire! Now that's an insider word! Thanks a lot for explaining this one.

Thanks again for all the comments and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, December 29, 2018 3:28 PM

stikpusher
Did those mag pouches have the wire attachment for the grommets on a pistol belt, or cloth loops on the backside?

By the time they got DLA numbers, the M-1910 wire hooks were out of use on those.

Because the Army kept using the M3A3, the contract to make the carriers was extended and continued on for some time.  They eventually got NSN as the production continued.

If IU remember the discussion over on the USMilitaria forum, some collector had one with a 1982 contract date.  Marine tracks often had khaki examples well into the 60s as they were, A, servicable, and B, inside the track.

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, December 29, 2018 3:39 PM

Pawel
I just love the discussion going on here

It's particularly necessary, too, as what the Book did was different than what the actual Tankers did. 

Partially, that was from the separation of when the tanks & storage were designed, and partially from the fact that the designers did not actually live in the track like the tankers do/did.

Armor Command, for all its foibles, would back up things that made sense for tankers.  Like moving fire extinguishers, or changing stowage poiints.

This is where first-person accounts can be hugely valuable.

I still find it suprising that so few modelers model a "lay out" instpection.  Which is a "junk on the bunk"sight inventory of all the stuff in a track.  This may be because our tread-headed amigos doe not remember those with any joy at all.

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Saturday, December 29, 2018 4:08 PM

Lmao! 

I do not recall anyone sharing fond stories of any inspection lay outs lol!

Apparently that was one of the most miserable events a tanker had to deal with lol.

There are many stories, but no one talks about that inspection lol.

- Mike Brindos

Figure Painting Moderator -- Genessis-Models

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, December 29, 2018 7:51 PM

I do remember when I was a brand new cherry TOW gunner in my first line unit. My assigned weapon was a M1911A1 .45, complete with a black leather holster with those wire hooks to attach to my LBE... in 1984. I was also responsible for our M60 machine gun too. 

Layouts were just a bit more enjoyable than busting track... just a bit...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Sunday, December 30, 2018 11:32 AM

Since each tanker was issued a .45 as a personal weapon, the grease guns were not assigned to any particular member, although one was often the responsibility of the loader and the other, the driver's.

Each crewman needed to be familiar with the use of the weapon in case of a bailout. Don't know who would be physically able to grab the gun after the tank gets hit.

There was an FM on qualifying the SMG, but we did not bother since it was not a requirement and our ammo requirement was not funded to fully qualify.

We did qualify on the M16A2 our Abrams tanks came with, but it was a brand new weapon and every soldier was already familiar with it.

https://www.amazon.com/Submachine-Guns-Caliber-45-M3A1/dp/1940453119

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Monday, December 31, 2018 9:14 AM

Hello Rob!

That's interesting about the Abrams - they put M16A2 in it? Must have used up a lot of space.

For my CEV I have built a bit like that:

1:35 M728 CEV by Pawel

That's the space above the instrument panel in the driver's compartment on the right side. As can be seen I have used wrong pouch for the SMG ammo. The SMG is from the Dragon "Modern tankers" set. By the way it's not the entirely right version of it, neither - it has the cocking lever of the M3 A-nothing version, the lever was absent from the more correct A1 version.

I have the traverse gearbox almost ready - I'll post it soon. Till then I would like to wish you all a happy new year!

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Monday, December 31, 2018 12:00 PM

Pawel

Hello Rob!

That's interesting about the Abrams - they put M16A2 in it? Must have used up a lot of space.

No, not really. It stores vertically in the commanders station. The barrel goes into the round pipe hole and the bungee cord in the bottom picture holds it in place. The minor problem was the "V" shaped supports that the front grips of the M16 and M16A1 would fit into. The A2 had round grips so it didn't quite fit in the mount as well.

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Monday, December 31, 2018 2:24 PM

I don't remember a 3 clip pouch. The one's we had were more like a pouch that held around 20 magazines. Yes Caddillac - Gage. Be careful of pictures on the internet, alot of different countries used this tank, and modified it to their taste.

Funny thing about the fire extingusher located under the loaders step. With the turret facing forward, it was right in front of the outlet for the heater tube. If you didn't throw it in the oddment tray, it would eventually cook off and fill the turret with smoke. Scare the crap out of you if it happened at 3: 00 AM.

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