Weathering Tutorial--the doog's DML HETZER

Grossartig, Magnifique, Phantastic

exellent job Doog, Even if I read some about washes, it never became really clear to me, but yuor tutorial really helped in understanding better. I guess I have to try a banged up Leo or M1(saw one of those in a little youtube video, and it looked bad). But I have a questions: How would go about it with Nato 3 color camo? the same way?

Thanks, Carves! It's jusr nice to know that these tutorials are helping peole to enjoy thi shobby as much as I am!

Modelfreaks, I'm not exactly sure what to say about "how long" it takes--it takes as long as it does, ya know? How much do you want to do to your model? How many layers of eathering do you wnat or need? BE PATIENT and just judge as -you-go!

LeopardMan--I would do a modern tank the same way. It might not be as noticeable, but I would do the same thing. The only thing is that maybe I would lean toward more white and yellow, to make the tank seem more "dusty".

Great work Doog!

One question. You are using thinner and enamels for washes. Are you using those on top of acrylics?  I have always thought that mineral spirits or enamel paints would damage acrylic paint finishes. Any help on the subject of mixing the two mediums would be appreciated. 

Thanks,

Don

That Hetzer is amazing!!!!! I can't wait for my copy of the magasine. 

I read this toutorial befor and found the info realy helpfull.

Thanks for the tut doog.  It's making me think what I am going to do for my next build.  Never would have thought to do a dunkel wash and then the dull coat.  It might just help me with a problem that I work out in latter stages.

Thanks again and keep giving up your secrets.  I love them and they have improved my builds beyond words.  As you can plainly see by my Ferdinand and my Tiger for the red storm GB.

Thanks

Kim

skullcrusher7 wrote:

Great work Doog! One question. You are using thinner and enamels for washes. Are you using those on top of acrylics?  I have always thought that mineral spirits or enamel paints would damage acrylic paint finishes. Any help on the subject of mixing the two mediums would be appreciated.  Thanks, Don

I have never had a problem with the oil paint washes harming the Tamiya (mostly) or Model Master acrylic paints which I use exclusively.Never once. Once they dry, they're hard as rock. If you don't already use acrylics for your painting, I would strongly recommend you make the switch. For weathering, they really are more convenient, and less troublesome as far as reactivity problems.

Moose, your builds certainly have improved! I'm humbly flattered to be credited with helping you achieve those results in any way, no matter how small!

Plastic_Punisher wrote:

thanks a million for the tut doog, i have a king tiger im going to try some of you tips on. 2 questions tho, when you do the pin wash, how do you decide what colors to use? and also, what dont you like about future? i know alot of people love it, just wondering why you dont use, to each his/her own, but im just curious.

To answer your question, PP, generally I use either Raw Umber or Van Dyke Brown for light-colored models, becasue it looks liek dirt/shadows in the creases. For green vehicles, I use black, or VanDyke brown, which is darker than Raw Umber. Black is too harsh for tan-colored vehicles, IMO.

The "Future" question has been hugely-debated here, but I will suffice to say that, on acrylic-painted models it is simply an unnecessary step. It can be, and is used on enamel-painted models, and as an acrylic barrrier, it helps to protect the delicate enamels coat from thinners used in washes and filters. So if you use enamels to paint, you're probably going to want to use it.

My main peeve about it is that it is soooo "high gloss"--requiring more additional flat coats to tame it. You just don't need to do that on acrylic coats. I've also seen some problems associated with it that I would just rather not risk.

I have to say, however, that I actually tried to find some here in New York, and I was unsuccessful--I wanted to try it out as an overall gloss coat on my car models. There's a guy over in "Auto's" there called "JTRacing" whose finishes are the most superb gloss coats I've ever seen--and all he uses is Future, brushed on "with an old T-shirt"! 

Panzer_Blitz wrote:

Excellent job Doog !!!!......Seriously, you should be writing a book on modeling and weathering. I would definitely buy a copy !! If you haven't submitted something to FSM already, YOU SHOULD !

I catually have had quite a few articles bought and published so far--and more yet to come, hopefully!

Who knows? Maybe when I have a good selection of them published, Kalmbach publishing will some how bundle them together into some kind of book? That would be awesome for sure!

Hamburgular wrote:

Doog, how do you apply the fade technique without streaks or brush strokes, Im a little baffled on that I love the way it looks but I tried it and had a hard time eliminating the streaks , help if you can thanks

I can only think that if you're getting brush strokes, then you're using too thick of a wash? Can you re-phrase your question a little more clearly? What exactly are you trying to do, and with what materials?

the doog wrote:

Hamburgular wrote: Doog, how do you apply the fade technique without streaks or brush strokes, Im a little baffled on that I love the way it looks but I tried it and had a hard time eliminating the streaks , help if you can thanks Uh, the fade technique...you mean using like, a light tan colored wash? I can only think that if you're getting brush strokes, then you're using too thick of a wash? Can you re-phrase your question a little more clearly? What exactly are you trying to do, and with what materials?

Yes the Light colored tan wash,the one you apply before the pin wash it seemed to give a faded look to your hetzer, how would I apply this wash on say a 1/72 vehicle, with a wide brush? Your wash looks very uniform to you just apply it with a brush and thats it, because this seems to be giving streaks, I must be missing something, thanks again.   

skullcrusher7 wrote:

Great work Doog! One question. You are using thinner and enamels for washes. Are you using those on top of acrylics?  I have always thought that mineral spirits or enamel paints would damage acrylic paint finishes. Any help on the subject of mixing the two mediums would be appreciated.  Thanks, Don

I think Doog has answered most of your question, and I don't want to derail the thread......but I always remember it from chemistry days, "like dissolves like" meaning you wouldn't do a solvent/alcohol based wash over alcrylic ideally as that is suspended in alcohol based thinner. Nor would you do a mineral wash (white spirit/turps) over enamels.  But a mineral wash over acryilc is fine.  Bear in mind future, kleer whatever you call it over your side of the pond is also a water based acrylic, so don't use an alcohol based wash over that, but oil/enamel wash is ok.....also you can thin acrylics in water and detergent to make them run, but as they dry quickly they're unforgiving compared to oils

right back to Doog, sorry mate 

the doog wrote:

Panzer_Blitz wrote: Excellent job Doog !!!!......Seriously, you should be writing a book on modeling and weathering. I would definitely buy a copy !! If you haven't submitted something to FSM already, YOU SHOULD ! Thanks a lot, Panzer Blitz! I catually have had quite a few articles bought and published so far--and more yet to come, hopefully! Who knows? Maybe when I have a good selection of them published, Kalmbach publishing will some how bundle them together into some kind of book? That would be awesome for sure!

I'll look forward to that, and that part I'm sure I read somewhere about a err....discount....

Do you have any experience of the low odour thinner for oil paints, I'm not too sure, completely clogged when trying to thin enamels, but ok obviously for oils, but also seems to leave wet looking tide marks compared to traditional white spirit thinning 

Hamburgular wrote:

the doog wrote:  Hamburgular wrote: Doog, how do you apply the fade technique without streaks or brush strokes, Im a little baffled on that I love the way it looks but I tried it and had a hard time eliminating the streaks , help if you can thanks Uh, the fade technique...you mean using like, a light tan colored wash? I can only think that if you're getting brush strokes, then you're using too thick of a wash? Can you re-phrase your question a little more clearly? What exactly are you trying to do, and with what materials? Yes the Light colored tan wash,the one you apply before the pin wash it seemed to give a faded look to your hetzer, how would I apply this wash on say a 1/72 vehicle, with a wide brush? Your wash looks very uniform to you just apply it with a brush and thats it, because this seems to be giving streaks, I must be missing something, thanks again.

I just honestly slap that wash on, really thin, with a wide brush, and there's not even a possiblity of brush stroke I have it so thin. I mean, it's really thin! 

Then just either let it air dry, or use a hair dryer on it.

I would bet you're not using enough thinner in your wash?

the doog wrote:

Hamburgular wrote:  the doog wrote:  Hamburgular wrote: Doog, how do you apply the fade technique without streaks or brush strokes, Im a little baffled on that I love the way it looks but I tried it and had a hard time eliminating the streaks , help if you can thanks Uh, the fade technique...you mean using like, a light tan colored wash? I can only think that if you're getting brush strokes, then you're using too thick of a wash? Can you re-phrase your question a little more clearly? What exactly are you trying to do, and with what materials? Yes the Light colored tan wash,the one you apply before the pin wash it seemed to give a faded look to your hetzer, how would I apply this wash on say a 1/72 vehicle, with a wide brush? Your wash looks very uniform to you just apply it with a brush and thats it, because this seems to be giving streaks, I must be missing something, thanks again.    The only reasons I can think of why your washes would do that are 1., too thick a wash, or 2., the wrong kind of thinner? I just honestly slap that wash on, really thin, with a wide brush, and there's not even a possiblity of brush stroke I have it so thin. I mean, it's really thin!  Then just either let it air dry, or use a hair dryer on it. I would bet you're not using enough thinner in your wash?

Thank you for your help doog, I will address both of those issues and see if its any better I think that it was that I was not using enough thinner it makes sense, thank you again for your help and letting me tap into your modeling wisdom

Eoin6661 wrote:

the doog wrote:  Panzer_Blitz wrote: Excellent job Doog !!!!......Seriously, you should be writing a book on modeling and weathering. I would definitely buy a copy !! If you haven't submitted something to FSM already, YOU SHOULD ! Thanks a lot, Panzer Blitz! I catually have had quite a few articles bought and published so far--and more yet to come, hopefully! Who knows? Maybe when I have a good selection of them published, Kalmbach publishing will some how bundle them together into some kind of book? That would be awesome for sure!   I'll look forward to that, and that part I'm sure I read somewhere about a err....discount.... Do you have any experience of the low odour thinner for oil paints, I'm not too sure, completely clogged when trying to thin enamels, but ok obviously for oils, but also seems to leave wet looking tide marks compared to traditional white spirit thinning

Enamels are weird paints; I've used them just a bit on some car models and it reminded me why I stopped doing cars 20 years ago and started doing Armor! They can be a real pain in the....I use acrylics on my cars now. 

the doog wrote:

Plastic_Punisher wrote: .....what dont you like about future? i know alot of people love it, just wondering why you dont use, to each his/her own, but im just curious.    The "Future" question has been hugely-debated here, but I will suffice to say that, on acrylic-painted models it is simply an unnecessary step. It can be, and is used on enamel-painted models, and as an acrylic barrrier, it helps to protect the delicate enamels coat from thinners used in washes and filters. So if you use enamels to paint, you're probably going to want to use it. My main peeve about it is that it is soooo "high gloss"--requiring more additional flat coats to tame it. You just don't need to do that on acrylic coats. I've also seen some problems associated with it that I would just rather not risk.

Good morning Doog,

I couldn't agreee more that the Future debate is hugely debated and does, in the end, come down to personal preferences.

At the risk of speaking out of turn, however, I will express my advocacy for using Future (or other type sealant) especially over acrylic bases.  Acyrlic paints by their vary nature are pourus vs. enamals and will eagerly soak up any topical layer what is applied.  Now, that can be used to good effect if those are the results you are looking for, but I find that it is very easy to "loose control"  ending up with an overly dark presentation.  Once the acrylic has been "stained" there really is no turning back.

If, however, you have a protectant seal, ie Future, then I feel as though I have a lot more flexibility, or a safety net if you will, to make adjustments.  While still damp a wash can be manipulated to remove excess.  Futher, by the very nature of a "slippery" surface, techniques such as pin washes will be much more effective due to the lessened flowing resitance vis-a-vis over acrylics only.

Addionally, the glossy surface provides the perfect platform (if not required) for the successful application of decals to prevent silvering.

As for the "sooo high gloss" aspect, yes in the beginning you do have a very shinny model.  But, it has been my experience that the results of the subsequent weathering steps (especially the use of artists oils) that nearly all, if not all of the glossyness is matted.  If not, then I have found a light misting of Model Masters Flat Clear does the trick.

In the end, however, it is personal preference.  It is particularly during the painting and finishing steps that our "individuality" is allowed to flourish.  Happily, there is no right nor wrong way, only the way which best suits the individual modeler.

thanks,

Rick

RickLawler wrote:

Good morning Doog, At the risk of speaking out of turn, however, I will express my advocacy for using Future (or other type sealant) especially over acrylic bases. In the end, however, it is personal preference.  It is particularly during the painting and finishing steps that our "individuality" is allowed to flourish.  Happily, there is no right nor wrong way, only the way which best suits the individual modeler. thanks, Rick

I'm happy to have you contribute to this thread! For as much as it can be a good reference thread for this type of finishing, the more the merrier!

It's funny, that the thing you mention about Future being "slipperier" is eactly why I don't use it for washes. I actually have learned to count on the "tooth" of the flat acrylic to "grab" the color of the wash. In fact, I don't know how this technique here would have worked with that tendency to slough off the colors? I have also found that, on the rare occasion when I have "over-washed" a DY base coat, it's sometimes very desireable to then hit the inside panels with a light DY coat to mitigate the wash color saturation. It can leave an interesting "post fading" look to the finish...

Actually, ..........bless me father, for I have sinned.......I actually tried to find some Future here in the area stores, but have had no luck. I really wanted to find it to use as a finish on a car that I'm buidling for a Christmas present. There's a guy over in "Auto's" who uses it for a mirror-like shine, and it's quite simply amazing as a gloss coat.

I have never had a problem doing pin washes without it.

Proof, Doog that everyone has their own techniques... the tricks that work for them.

"I actually tried to find some Future here in the area stores, but have had no luck."

It's readily available here in the supermarkets, in the household section with the dust spray and floor mops.

Later,

Rick

RickLawler wrote:

It's readily available here in the supermarkets, in the household section with the dust spray and floor mops. Later, Rick

Ye gods hath spoken:

"NO  'FUTURE'   FOR  THE   DOOG!" ................

Just to add to the glosscoat debate, it may be worth noting that not all acrylic paints are created equal.

I also don't gloss coat over Tamiya acrylics and have had satisfactory results with the oils+thinner mix that I am currently using. However, in experimenting, I have found that the same mix, while it has no ill effects on Tamiya acrylics, will attack Gunze acrylics.

I haven't as yet used Gunze as a primary coat, but it's worth keeping in mind for future reference.

dupes wrote:

Doog, have you tried Wal-Mart? I know that's where I scored mine.

vector123 wrote:

for the color dots do you let it dry?

OK sounds good.