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$ Friule $ !!!

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  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Dripping Springs, TX, USA
Posted by RBaer on Thursday, May 14, 2015 5:48 PM

Tankerbuilder: Sorry for the last response, I've been out of town.

Friul puts a jig in the early KT sets because the intermediate link is composed of four (five?) pieces and would be a pain to line up without one. That's the only set I've ever seen with a jig.

My feelings on tracks, and Friuls in particular, may go back to one of the reasons I build tanks and not boats: I like tracks. For me, it's part of the fun. Granted, the assembly on some sets with flashed-over holes can be a pain, but I think the results can be worth it. And, I only use them for "dead" tracks. I'm also buying SpadeAce more frequently, as they run about $35/set, shipped from HK.There's no point in spending the money for either if they can actually detract from the result, like so often happens when using them on a tank that runs "live" track.

I really like Dragon's DS tracks for Shermans, great detail and easy to use. Even the newer Tamiya glueable tracks are nice, for Shermans and others.

Anybody need a soap box? I'm done with this one. :)

Apprentice rivet counter.

  • Member since
    June 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
Posted by Reaper420 on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 12:51 PM
It also fries my butt a little that so many guys moan and complain about indy links that I wonder if it didn't herald the appearance of those darned one-piece DS tracks that I so despise. What a monumental step backward for German armor. I can see using those for modern armor which doesn't have sag, but it kills me that now we have to worry about how to sag a Pz IV tracks with DS rubber bands. Of course, you can't really pull it off to today's standards after we've seen indy link tracks, so you have to wind up buying an extra set. I wish Dragon would get their heads out of their mufflers.

I can't agree more. I don't know who came up with that dumb ideas of one piece rubber band tracks. I hate those darn things. Like you said on Modern tanks with no sag, ok, but on WWII era stuff, your up the creek with them. That leaves you to purchase AM tracks of one material or another. As for my skill sagging plastic links, it's good, but could still be better. I often times don't like the look that I end up with. As for saving money, I know I said I don't mind shelling out the dough for metal links, but I also don't mind NOT shelling it out either! LOL!

Kick the tires and light the fires!

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 7:15 AM

Reaper420
The doog,

Sorry about the misspelled name. I'm using my tablet and it auto corrected and I didn't even notice until after I had posted. I'm not trying to say that my way and preferences are better than your or that yours are better than mine. We each prefer our own ways. I have no problem paying almost as much for tracks as I did the kit. And you are right, you can get perfect sag with plastic links, but it takes practice and if you screw up, well your screwed. As far as adding weight, I always do it after the suspension is fully dried and have not run into a problem yet.

lol! You know, I figured--after I posted-- that that's what happened! I've got one of the iPads as well and I am sometimes embarrassed by the goofy posts that come out after the auto-correct has its way. No problem--we're good!

Yeah, you're right about the tracks from that perspective. I guess what gets my goat sometimes is some guys who are a fan of Friuls who can be dogmatic about how realistic the sag looks, when there are many a talented modeler who have never used metal tracks and whose models are outstanding. My contention is that you can save yourself a lot of money by just taking the time to learn to use indy links.

It also fries my butt a little that so many guys moan and complain about indy links that I wonder if it didn't herald the appearance of those darned one-piece DS tracks that I so despise. What a monumental step backward for German armor. I can see using those for modern armor which doesn't have sag, but it kills me that now we have to worry about how to sag a Pz IV tracks with DS rubber bands. Of course, you can't really pull it off to today's standards after we've seen indy link tracks, so you have to wind up buying an extra set. I wish Dragon would get their heads out of their mufflers.

  • Member since
    June 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
Posted by Reaper420 on Tuesday, May 12, 2015 1:01 AM
The doog,

Sorry about the misspelled name. I'm using my tablet and it auto corrected and I didn't even notice until after I had posted. I'm not trying to say that my way and preferences are better than your or that yours are better than mine. We each prefer our own ways. I have no problem paying almost as much for tracks as I did the kit. And you are right, you can get perfect sag with plastic links, but it takes practice and if you screw up, well your screwed. As far as adding weight, I always do it after the suspension is fully dried and have not run into a problem yet.

Kick the tires and light the fires!

  • Member since
    March 2013
  • From: Puebla, Mexico
Posted by garzonh on Monday, May 11, 2015 1:26 PM

Yep, I have never bought metal tracks, with my exchange rate, even a small jar of acrylici is expensive. So as you mentioned, prices are going very high these days.

I have never used magic tracks, I guess because I have bought old kits, with reasonable prices.

Someone also mentioned in FSM that "rusty" tracks are just a merchandise scam to sell rusty pigments and paints, and I think is true, for any active tank, weather and use just scraps off any rustiness, specially on WWII armor for its (ab)use and armor after WWII just has new techniques and paints to prevent from building.

But, anyway, each one creates its world as they like. Each one of us, is the God of our Armor world, so we dictate rules as how we build things.

Yes, as for the IPMS guys, not everything has to be 100% precise, replicas do not exist in the scale model, they are, after all a: rerpresentation of an actual vehicle, plane, figure.

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, May 11, 2015 6:17 AM

Reaper420
The dog

Your are right and wrong. Yes you are covering the tracks, but for some vehicles, nothing, and I mean nothing captures the correct sag like metal tracks. For me that is the point of using them, but also just because of the weight that it adds to the model giving it a nice quality feel to it. I add metal parts and often times, steel BBs to closed off portions just to add a nice weight feel to the kit, giving the impression of diecast and durability. But as you said, to each his own.

It's "doog", just for the record. Wink

Well, I've heard other modelers make that point, but the way I think of it, when a model is sitting on the shelf, its weight isn't an issue. And a little bit of careful attention in construction can sag indy link tracks to perfectly replicate anything a metal track can do. I mean, it's all just a question of arcs and angles when you come right down to it.

I would also worry about adding weights to models and stressing the joints of the suspension; ie, splaying the suspension if your glue isn't quite dry when you place the added weight in, I would think that in the end, this would cause you more problems than not?

  • Member since
    June 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
Posted by Reaper420 on Sunday, May 10, 2015 11:18 PM
The dog

Your are right and wrong. Yes you are covering the tracks, but for some vehicles, nothing, and I mean nothing captures the correct sag like metal tracks. For me that is the point of using them, but also just because of the weight that it adds to the model giving it a nice quality feel to it. I add metal parts and often times, steel BBs to closed off portions just to add a nice weight feel to the kit, giving the impression of diecast and durability. But as you said, to each his own.

Kick the tires and light the fires!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by T26E4 on Sunday, May 10, 2015 10:07 AM

The biggest waste is people who buy metal links for vehicles (like many US AFVs like Shermans) which have "live" tracks and have no sag.  Buying metal links for those models actually imparts a level of inaccuracy....

I'm not knocking all AM track sets. I have quite a few -- but only got them inexpensively  and if the kit-supplied tracks were woeful.

Roy Chow 

Join AMPS!

http://www.amps-armor.org

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Sunday, May 10, 2015 9:38 AM

garzonh

Reaper,

Yes, casting is perfect, you dont have to cut, sand any left overs. Assembly is fast and easy.

The price is around $40 USD per kit, but just saving a lot of time and trouble I think is worth it.

Think about it-- that's the same for Magic Tracks. Perfect links right out of the bag, and they go together in a snap.

Honestly, with kits breaking the ridiculous $70 mark now, can anyone honestly justify spending yet another $40 on just tracks?  Especially when the kit ones are more than likely just as adequate and accurate these days? And honestly, perfectly suitable ones are available for much less in plastic, and if you're only going to paint them or cover them in weathering, it's crazy to spend the money on metal links.

The only place I could see even considering these kind of tracks would be in a situation where I"m showing a tank on a cobblestone street and might want to highlight the metallic nature of wear on the track faces, and the kit had rubber band yucks. Then again, for $40, I might be just as inclined to spend that money on a new kit with Magic Tracks and have a whole kit of spares to pilfer when needed.

With the quality of tracks today, I think a modeler has to ask themselves, how much money am I willing to spend on one part whose "gimmick factor" (i.e., the metallic nature of them)  is likely going to be covered up in paint anyway? I just don't get it, but to each his own..

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Sunday, May 10, 2015 6:36 AM

Those look pretty nice

  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Saturday, May 9, 2015 11:21 AM

Well ;

    Certainly faster than the FRUIL tracks .I might build more heavy vehicles now that these are out .Now where did I put that KING TIGER with the Porsche turret .

  • Member since
    March 2013
  • From: Puebla, Mexico
Posted by garzonh on Saturday, May 9, 2015 10:54 AM

Reaper,

Yes, casting is perfect, you dont have to cut, sand any left overs. Assembly is fast and easy.

https://youtu.be/-SD2c8jutqE

The price is around $40 USD per kit, but just saving a lot of time and trouble I think is worth it.

  • Member since
    June 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
Posted by Reaper420 on Friday, May 8, 2015 11:18 PM
Garzonh,

My interest is definitely piqued with those easy links. Can't wait for them to release and give em a try. Not having to do the dang wire is a definite positive to me. Wonder about pricing, more than or less than Fruil I wonder. I bet more just because of the ease of assembly and probably "better material and casting process" claim that I'm sure they will throw out there.

Kick the tires and light the fires!

  • Member since
    March 2013
  • From: Puebla, Mexico
Posted by garzonh on Friday, May 8, 2015 9:03 PM

Try the new "Easy metal links" http://www.easymetallinks.eu/ much easier to assemble than Friule pain staking of puting wire inside it.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Wednesday, May 6, 2015 11:15 PM

disastermaster

pordoi

the doog

Bill Plunk for "Forum President".

Anyone second the motion...?

Yes, but can he carry the Bible Belt States who use metal tracks religiously??  Hmm

Don

Aw right guys.
Don't be so Fruilish.
No talking politics here http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/Knitwit1975/Misc%20smilies/wink05.gif~original

........... I hear it is too late to escape ................already  " tracked" back to the source.........Whistling

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: On my kitchen counter top somewhere in central North Carolina.
Posted by disastermaster on Wednesday, May 6, 2015 10:08 PM

pordoi

the doog

Bill Plunk for "Forum President".

Anyone second the motion...?

Yes, but can he carry the Bible Belt States who use metal tracks religiously??  Hmm

Don

Aw right guys.
Don't be so Fruilish.
No talking politics here http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/Knitwit1975/Misc%20smilies/wink05.gif~original

 https://i.imgur.com/LjRRaV1.png

 

 

 
  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Wednesday, May 6, 2015 6:14 PM

RBaer :

Since when did they put a jig in the track sets ?  My Fruil- model tracks for my Dicker - Max didn't have one .  T.B.

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Dripping Springs, TX, USA
Posted by RBaer on Wednesday, May 6, 2015 5:40 PM

Anthony, I've done the Friuls you're talking about, and the jig works great. The little link/connecting pieces are a pain, but they all go together and you get a very nice look.

I'm firmly on the "metal track" side of the fence, but I build so slowly that the cost tends to become less significant.

Apprentice rivet counter.

  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Wednesday, May 6, 2015 5:27 PM

Okay now !

  I have done one set . Won't do more .Price , Naw , availability of certain types . I do now use a very foreign type on the larger treaded machines I have .They come from -are you ready ? GASP ! LEGO !

They are about an inch and a sixteenth across But man are they heavy on a 1/25 Caterpillar Bull-Dozer .They look great too . Now they have a smaller set available and I am collecting the pieces to do a U.S. Army mid W.W .-2 - Halftrack . Those are only a quarter inch wide .

     Believe it or not , some of the older LEGO construction sets have very nice tracks . They snap together and the extras I have now are holding up well as hangars for speakers for my stereo ( a mini - unit  , by the way )

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Monday, May 4, 2015 6:24 PM

I've never heard of Fruils being used for scourging.......Hmm.........

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Monday, May 4, 2015 5:27 PM

the doog

Bill Plunk for "Forum President".

Anyone second the motion...?

Yes, but can he carry the Bible Belt States who use metal tracks religiously??  Hmm

 

Don

  • Member since
    June 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
Posted by Reaper420 on Monday, May 4, 2015 1:08 PM
There is and always will be a debate about the use of metal tracks. Some people hate them, others love them. Some say using them involves no skill which is not true. In the end, the tracks get painted and weathered, isn't that where the skill comes in? Regardless of plastic or resin or metal. Everyone has their own ways that we like to model, which is why our hobby is so unique. I can buy a kit and tojo can buy the same exact kit, we can decide to model it exactly the same way but the end result will be different and unique because of skill and techniques. For one I love the use of metal tracks and will use them every chance that I get. Just the weight and feel and realistic sag is the draw to them for me. But to each his own, which again is why our hobby is so unique and awesome.

Kick the tires and light the fires!

  • Member since
    March 2007
Posted by KAYSEE88 on Monday, May 4, 2015 11:28 AM

ALRIGHT, THAT'S IT.......only building ruined tank vignettes with busted tracks from now man!

LOL

 

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Sunday, May 3, 2015 8:11 AM

wbill76

The main reason Fruils are going up in price is where they are produced. They are produced in Europe where their costs are all measured in Euros. So, declining dollar value relative to the Euro means higher USD prices. Be prepared to see similar things happening in the future for similar items from Eduard, Aber, Armorscale, etc. The same thing may happen as well to a lesser degree for items coming from Asia depending on how the USD does against their currencies as well. Currency markets are subject to the same capitalist influences as all the others.

As far as the whole "skill vs. AM" debate, it's possible to spend the $$$ and load up a kit with all the AM imaginable and have it finished looking awful...throwing money at a kit doesn't magically transform it into a masterpiece or award winning show stopper, it's the "skill" of the builder at every stage that produces the end result. Using AM items vs. scratchbuilding usually comes down to a question of time/resources more than skill...although both options in the end require it to some degree to produce a solid result. All comes down to where you want to devote your time and skill and there's plenty of room in the hobby for multiple paths that lead to the same destination. Some prefer to scratchbuild, some prefer kit tracks over AM, some prefer PE to resin, and some prefer OOB. Each one requires their own set of "skill" application to be used effectively and depending on what you want to achieve...for some areas to achieve a desired level of detail, AM's the only route to do so, in their judgement, quickly and effectively, and the different manufacturers are happy to oblige.

Bill Plunk for "Forum President".

Anyone second the motion...?

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Sunday, May 3, 2015 8:03 AM

Price change?

They've always been ridiculously priced. No change there!

You can make a set of plastic indy links look just as good.

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by Wood on Saturday, May 2, 2015 8:51 AM

You guys might want to avoid Amazon for Fruil tracks. They're asking $61.70 for almost all of their Fruil track kits. If there are other sources that are less expensive you might want to go that route, and I saw comments that said there were.

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: On my kitchen counter top somewhere in central North Carolina.
Posted by disastermaster on Friday, May 1, 2015 11:31 PM

  If you love drilling http://www.diyaudio.com.hr/images/smilies/Drilling1.gif tiny holes and a trash'n 'ya cash, use those tools and get those Fruils.

 On the other hand, (if 'ya gott'a have 'em) http://stadion.lviv.ua/themes/stadion.lviv.ua/img/smiles/facepalm.gif get the spade ace tracks (courtesy of ebay) they are better, cheaper, and the holes are pre-drilled.

http://images.clipartpanda.com/smiley-face-thumbs-up-animation-huge-thumbs-up-smiley-emoticon.gifAnd for me, I do just fine with the kit tracks.

 https://i.imgur.com/LjRRaV1.png

 

 

 
  • Member since
    June 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
Posted by Reaper420 on Friday, May 1, 2015 4:46 PM
I posted this in my other thread but figured I might get more responses here. Anyone know of a company or website that sells or makes metal sprocket wheels for a 1/35 Tamiya Tiger I Mid? One that will work with the Friul tracks for a Tiger I Mid/late? I just want to add a bit more flash and weight to my Tiger.

Kick the tires and light the fires!

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