The Longest S.P. Gun in the world?

redleg12 wrote:

MM OK build overall but....I started my military career (long ago) on one of these. A few quick things. I don't know if it is the lighting but it almost looks tan. These were phased out of service with the US Army in the late 70s. Their color was always OD Green. Isreal also used the M107, and this color is closer to their M107 than the US version WAY too many scratches. You would NEVER see a weapon looking in that shape. Scatches would always be touched up. The only place where it would be scrached and metal somewhat exposed would be on the recoil spade. The hydralic elevating cylinders (on either side of the barrel), the inside part of the cylinder will be shiny (polished). Any other state and they would not work. He has a mix of white bumper numbers on the front and back with black numbers and star on the side. They would not be mixed...either all white or all black. Barrel sled (under the barrel, groved area) would be a gunmetal color overall but the grove and high spots would be polished from the movement in the housing. Need to do a better job on the seams between the side skirt and main hull As I said eye pleasing, but....not correct Rounds Complete!!

remember the eighty foot lanyard we used on a brand new barrel <g>?

gary

Oleander13 - Don't worry about posting your models here.  As my good buddy AJ said, we will give you all the help we can.  You have already proven you are not like the OP by your attitude and you are actually building models, not just showing off the work of others and looking for praise on them.  

But to turn to the original question, isn't this: http://panzermodelkit.valka.cz/Pionaj.htm the longest-barrelled self-prop currently in service?

Hard to tell without an actual barrel measurement.  I'm not sure the 2S7 is still in service though.  It is/was basically a Soviet copy of the US M110 series 8" (203mm) howitzer, which was replaced with the MLRS.  Also, the German Panzer Howitzer 2000 may have a longer barrel.  It is hugely long, esp. for a 155mm.

squeakie wrote:

redleg12 wrote: MM OK build overall but....I started my military career (long ago) on one of these. A few quick things. I don't know if it is the lighting but it almost looks tan. These were phased out of service with the US Army in the late 70s. Their color was always OD Green. Isreal also used the M107, and this color is closer to their M107 than the US version WAY too many scratches. You would NEVER see a weapon looking in that shape. Scatches would always be touched up. The only place where it would be scrached and metal somewhat exposed would be on the recoil spade. The hydralic elevating cylinders (on either side of the barrel), the inside part of the cylinder will be shiny (polished). Any other state and they would not work. He has a mix of white bumper numbers on the front and back with black numbers and star on the side. They would not be mixed...either all white or all black. Barrel sled (under the barrel, groved area) would be a gunmetal color overall but the grove and high spots would be polished from the movement in the housing. Need to do a better job on the seams between the side skirt and main hull As I said eye pleasing, but....not correct Rounds Complete!! I noticed that the round didn't have a fuse on it, as well as the brass driving band. The top of the craddle would be suffed up without much paint there as the round is pushed off it. With the breech cracked open the inside of it should be a nice clean silver.     The water cans are the wrong color, and would have had some kind of marking denoting water and also if it was potable water. Also it was not normal for the water cans to be where there are located during a fire mission. The concussion from a zone three charge would have put them in the next county. Didn't see the firing lock, and the hydraulic lines used to elevate the tube on the AG's side (four or five of them 5/16" diameter) looked tobe missing.     Now that I'm done with rivit counting it's a nice piece. gary

Well....I was trying to keep the list short but highlight the major problems...but yes there are those. Plus others I see. As I said its just wrong!!

As for the lanyard to forever, yep the old nuke lanyard Plus was used for new barrels. Lots of good memories.

Rounds Complete!!

HeavyArty wrote:

Oleander13 - Don't worry about posting your models here.  As my good buddy AJ said, we will give you all the help we can.  You have already proven you are not like the OP by your attitude and you are actually building models, not just showing off the work of others and looking for praise on them.   But to turn to the original question, isn't this: http://panzermodelkit.valka.cz/Pionaj.htm the longest-barrelled self-prop currently in service?   Hard to tell without an actual barrel measurement.  I'm not sure the 2S7 is still in service though.  It is/was basically a Soviet copy of the US M110 series 8" (203mm) howitzer, which was replaced with the MLRS.  Also, the German Panzer Howitzer 2000 may have a longer barrel.  It is hugely long, esp. for a 155mm.

OK....Lets get technical....the M107 is a GUN and thus is the longest SP GUN. The 2S7 and Panzer 2000 are HOWITZERS. We will do the research to see the winner of that contest but...The M107 is the LONGEST GUN. (Why do I feel like a rabbi at a group circumcesion)....(I'm not going there Al)

Rounds Complete!! 

squeakie wrote:

Now that I'm done with rivit counting it's a nice piece.

ajlafleche wrote:

Except that the critiques are very often on extremely basic flaws...silvered and crooked decals, mold and seam likes, fogged windshields, parts installed upside down, poor to non-existent stories in dioramas. These are not ripping critiques, but genuinely basic mistakes from rushed building.

 But I guess my reaction would be 'so what?'  Not in the sense that those flaws are not important, but in the sense that, hey, they have been pointed out to MM time and time again, but he doesn't seem interested or concerned.  If they are good enough for him, and he wants to post 'em here, more power to him.  Particularly because, by now, I am sure he knows he is going to get ripped....  He doesn't seem interested in improving - so what?  Is it a pre-requisite to be a member of this site that one must be seeking improvement?

Rob Gronovius wrote:

It's not much different from the photos you see in the magazine's reader's gallery or any other non-award winning modeler's build. There are probably casual modelers who see AI's work as better than theirs, and they think to themselves, "If AI's stuff gets ripped, there's no way I'm posting photos of my work."

Well said and very astute observation.

Jon_a_its wrote:

It's Riv-et! (& Ped-ant, btw...)

redleg12 wrote:

HeavyArty wrote: Oleander13 - Don't worry about posting your models here.  As my good buddy AJ said, we will give you all the help we can.  You have already proven you are not like the OP by your attitude and you are actually building models, not just showing off the work of others and looking for praise on them.   But to turn to the original question, isn't this: http://panzermodelkit.valka.cz/Pionaj.htm the longest-barrelled self-prop currently in service?   Hard to tell without an actual barrel measurement.  I'm not sure the 2S7 is still in service though.  It is/was basically a Soviet copy of the US M110 series 8" (203mm) howitzer, which was replaced with the MLRS.  Also, the German Panzer Howitzer 2000 may have a longer barrel.  It is hugely long, esp. for a 155mm. OK....Lets get technical....the M107 is a GUN and thus is the longest SP GUN. The 2S7 and Panzer 2000 are HOWITZERS. We will do the research to see the winner of that contest but...The M107 is the LONGEST GUN. (Why do I feel like a rabbi at a group circumcesion)....(I'm not going there Al) Rounds Complete!!

OK...I promised an answer

The M107, 175mm gum is 60 calibres in length or 34.3 feet

The Panzer Howitzer 2000, 155mm howitzer is 52 calibres in length or 26.4 feet and

The 2S7, 203mm howitzer is 52.4 calibres in length or 37.4 feet.

So the M107 is the biggest GUN but the 2S7 is the biggest HOWITZER.

Hope you enjoyed that...PS...for those who ask, calbres in barrel length is measured from the barrel end to the breech and is the length/barrel diameter. (There is a unit measurement as useful as the furlong!!). Artilleryman tend to know this kind of (sometimes useless) stuff.

Rounds Complete!!

redleg12 wrote:

The M107, 175mm gum is 60 calibres in length or 34.3 feet

Geesh, and I thought big league chew was hard on my jaw...

nobody brought it up, but what about the railway guns used in WWI & WWII? There were also some coastal pieces that were pretty big as well. Lastly are you all sure about the length of the 175 barrel? Seems like only yesterday I was told down at Sill that the barrel was 32 foot long and weighed 19,000lb. with 1 1/2" of droop in it. But then again they may have been talking about the barrel minus the breech. Lastly the 175 gun was just about the most expensive piece of arty the U.S. government ever used with a barrel life factor of 80 compaired to 10,000 for a 155mm howitzer. It's only money!

gary

Squeakie -

I confirmed in one book I have and one site on the internet, they call the length 60 calibre.

60 x 175 = 10,500/25.4 = 413/12 = 34.4 feet. That is end of barrel to end of breech. The breech was about 2 1/2 feet long as the old brain cell (only one left)try to visualize.

In any case, 32 or 34 feet, it was still a BMF. The barrel droop always cracked me up. It even had to be accounted for by the FDC. The problem was you could not account for barrel whip when you fired!!

I need to find an M107 on display somewhere. I would love to get up next to it one more time.

OK....now I feel ancient...soon we will talk of catapults....but....it feels good to remember that smell of muzzel blast!!

As far as railway and costal...well yes, they are bigger but the original question was longest SP weapon. So thats how we ended up here.

Rounds Complete!!

I guess the M107 was the longest SP gun then.

Could you not argue that the longest self-propelled guns of all time were the main armament aboard the IJN Yamato and Musashi - 18.1", 45 cal. for 67.88ft, and the longst currently existing those aboard the now-decommissioned ex-USN Iowa-class battleships - 16", 50 cal for 66.67ft?

Cheers

Chris.

OK...I think we are talking land based, SP, on its own carrage...movable.

If we talk guns in general then we have Battleships, Rail Guns, Coast Artillery.

Somehow guys always come down to who has the bigger one...I'm not going there Al...

Rounds Complete!!

redleg12 wrote:

Squeakie - I confirmed in one book I have and one site on the internet, they call the length 60 calibre. 60 x 175 = 10,500/25.4 = 413/12 = 34.4 feet. That is end of barrel to end of breech. The breech was about 2 1/2 feet long as the old brain cell (only one left)try to visualize. In any case, 32 or 34 feet, it was still a BMF. The barrel droop always cracked me up. It even had to be accounted for by the FDC. The problem was you could not account for barrel whip when you fired!! I need to find an M107 on display somewhere. I would love to get up next to it one more time. OK....now I feel ancient...soon we will talk of catapults....but....it feels good to remember that smell of muzzel blast!! As far as railway and costal...well yes, they are bigger but the original question was longest SP weapon. So thats how we ended up here. Rounds Complete!!

I trained on 175's and eight inchers, and was supposed to have gone to a unit that used them. Needless to say that was the last time I was ever around one. The next time I came close to one was when we set a night logger up on LZ Ross alittle southwest of Da Nang. About midnight I was blasted into oblivion from the muzzel blast ( we got there after dark, and had no idea they were there)!! I thought we were being hit with 152mm arty! Needless to say we moved out of their way. I remember seeing them load them up on a ship to get rid of the used up barrels. They said they took them out in the ocean and just dumped them! Did you ever get to see them use a 175 in an anti-personel mode? Talk about a flame thrower!

    My main form of excitment was putting the little can fuses came in between the fuse and the projo. You could hear them "screaming all the way into Laos." We had to stop doing that after we shot H&I's on the otherside of a MAC-V place, and kept them and in their bunkers all night long! (not that it mattered much to us)

gary

For H&I missions, take a C-Rat lid, cut it in half, wedge on each side of the fuse as you screw it into the projo.(or flod in half and use a shear to cut the center out then open) Make it somewhat even to balance the round going down range

....That bugger screams like hell going in.

Yep....been there, done that!

Its also a great alarm clock in the morning!!! (Good morning...now go clean your pants)

Makes a 105mm round sound like a 16" at danger close!!

Rounds Complete!!

redleg12 wrote:

For H&I missions, take a C-Rat lid, cut it in half, wedge on each side of the fuse as you screw it into the projo.(or flod in half and use a shear to cut the center out then open) Make it somewhat even to balance the round going down range ....That bugger screams like hell going in. Yep....been there, done that! Its also a great alarm clock in the morning!!! (Good morning...now go clean your pants) Makes a 105mm round sound like a 16" at danger close!! Rounds Complete!!

we always used that little black can that a 565 fuse came in. It has a little lip on one end that will seat under a PD fuse, and also aligns itself. But later we found that every once in awhile the rounds would tumble on the way down. Just step on the cat's tail, and you know what the music sounds like.

    The unit I first went with was a first strike outfit out of Bragg, and these guys were good (as in really good). First thing I noticed when I went inside their bunker was all the cases of beer (must have been two hundred cases!!). It was stacked to the cieling everywhere, and even outside under a tarp! It turns out that these sections used to race thru one round zone sweeps for a case of beer, and they had only been beat once because they blew the recoil cylinders. The first one I saw them do, the guys on the other end called a checkfire after they were about seven or eight rounds into it. Can still hear them on the radios telling them they had about forty five more rounds in the air and they best dig alittle deeper really fast. These guys would do nine rounds in about a minute and ten seconds; with time of flight being about a minute and twenty seconds. Last I heard (about ten years ago) those guys still held the U.S. Army hip shoot record at three minutes and forty nine seconds.

    I doubt we shot five hundred rounds in the whole time I was over there after about six in the morning. Never was that lucky. We always worked the graveyard shift. Shoot from about eleven till about five in the morning or first light. Seemed like if it were in daylight hours they only wanted one howitzer, and that was always the base piece (good for them)

     a 155 round is just one good way of getting your undivided attention

gary

GA.modelmaker wrote:

some great stories and good info coiming out. red heavy and squeakie and who ever served i say THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. mines all most done so heavy red rob and any one else get your knives sharped to cut mine up .

GA - The most important thing is you are happy with it when it is done. We will point out items to help as this site is a learning experience. We are not here to cut it up. Just attaboys are not always the best but I and I hope the others will offer constructive review...good and improve.

I try to give it in somewhat a professional manner an expect the other to do the same. No matter who is building on this site or how good they may be, sometimes you are so far in the forest you can't see the trees.

I can't wait to see how you are doing. Safe and ready to fire, just waiting on your post!!

For my brothers here and myself thanks for the thank you. Glad you can enjoy the stories. Many of us like the hobby because it brings back the stories.

Squeakie - I presume that "pig" was rockin!!

(The M114 towed howitzer was called the pig) 

Rounds Complete!!

redleg12 wrote:

GA.modelmaker wrote: some great stories and good info coiming out. red heavy and squeakie and who ever served i say THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. mines all most done so heavy red rob and any one else get your knives sharped to cut mine up . GA - The most important thing is you are happy with it when it is done. We will point out items to help as this site is a learning experience. We are not here to cut it up. Just attaboys are not always the best but I and I hope the others will offer constructive review...good and improve. I try to give it in somewhat a professional manner an expect the other to do the same. No matter who is building on this site or how good they may be, sometimes you are so far in the forest you can't see the trees. I can't wait to see how you are doing. Safe and ready to fire, just waiting on your post!! For my brothers here and myself thanks for the thank you. Glad you can enjoy the stories. Many of us like the hobby because it brings back the stories. Squeakie - I presume that "pig" was rockin!! (The M114 towed howitzer was called the pig)  Rounds Complete!!

actually those guys were like a machine during a zone sweep. Each had a job, and no one ever questioned it. In the first section I was in there was no chief ( not at all uncommon), and really rank never showed up either. The last howitzer I was on had a four man crew with no chief. The ranking person was a Spec Four! Months later we got a shake & bake for a chief, and the First Sargent got rid of him about 60 days later, but by then we were upto eight men. I should write a book about some of the adventures and miss adventures we went thru. It would be about as funny as the movie MASH ( I was the guy who nailed the door shut on the E-5 and above four holer). I could devote a complete chapter to great rat adventures alone! (do you know how many dead rats can be fired out of a 155 barrel?) Life's not all bad you know.

gary

Well, dispite the accuracy issues, Overall I really like this build! Tell A.I. he did some nice work, but to please research his builds a little before hand.

Chris,

squeakie wrote:

nobody brought it up, but what about the railway guns used in WWI & WWII? There were also some coastal pieces that were pretty big as well. Lastly are you all sure about the length of the 175 barrel? Seems like only yesterday I was told down at Sill that the barrel was 32 foot long and weighed 19,000lb. with 1 1/2" of droop in it. But then again they may have been talking about the barrel minus the breech. Lastly the 175 gun was just about the most expensive piece of arty the U.S. government ever used with a barrel life factor of 80 compaired to 10,000 for a 155mm howitzer. It's only money! gary

What's the 2nd gun in the 5th picture? Saw one on my way home from Texas in SW MO somewhere, didn't read the sign though cause I was in a hurry.

---------------------------Kevin

Kevleerey wrote:

What's the 2nd gun in the 5th picture? Saw one on my way home from Texas in SW MO somewhere, didn't read the sign though cause I was in a hurry. ---------------------------Kevin

that's the last incarnation of the M110a3 (?) If anybody ever wants detailed pics of one let me know as I have a bunch.

gary

I know, it's not an SP, but at 16 inch 100 caliber thats a 40m barrel!

squeakie wrote:

Kevleerey wrote: that's the last incarnation of the M110a3 (?)

It is an M110A2.  There never was an A3 version.  The last A2s were retired in the mid '90s from Army National Guard units and the USMC.

All the M110 verisons were in areas where there was snow both here in the states, in Germany and in Korea.

The problem with the M110 in the cold was the hydraulic systems. If it was really cold, fluid would have to be replaced with a different grade.

If the tube was cold, the first round fired would make the whole weapon kick like a horse.

Lastly, beacause of its design, there was no shelter for the crew.

Artillery is interesting in the cold. especially real cold.

Rounds Complete!!