The Longest S.P. Gun in the world?

chris hall wrote:

But to turn to the original question, isn't this: http://panzermodelkit.valka.cz/Pionaj.htm the longest-barrelled self-prop currently in service? Cheers, Chris.

I don't even want to think abut the road down which this dsicussion could be heading!

redleg12 wrote:

MM OK build overall but....I started my military career (long ago) on one of these. A few quick things. I don't know if it is the lighting but it almost looks tan. These were phased out of service with the US Army in the late 70s. Their color was always OD Green. Isreal also used the M107, and this color is closer to their M107 than the US version WAY too many scratches. You would NEVER see a weapon looking in that shape. Scatches would always be touched up. The only place where it would be scrached and metal somewhat exposed would be on the recoil spade. The hydralic elevating cylinders (on either side of the barrel), the inside part of the cylinder will be shiny (polished). Any other state and they would not work. He has a mix of white bumper numbers on the front and back with black numbers and star on the side. They would not be mixed...either all white or all black. Barrel sled (under the barrel, groved area) would be a gunmetal color overall but the grove and high spots would be polished from the movement in the housing. Need to do a better job on the seams between the side skirt and main hull As I said eye pleasing, but....not correct Rounds Complete!!

I noticed that the round didn't have a fuse on it, as well as the brass driving band. The top of the craddle would be suffed up without much paint there as the round is pushed off it. With the breech cracked open the inside of it should be a nice clean silver.

    The water cans are the wrong color, and would have had some kind of marking denoting water and also if it was potable water. Also it was not normal for the water cans to be where there are located during a fire mission. The concussion from a zone three charge would have put them in the next county. Didn't see the firing lock, and the hydraulic lines used to elevate the tube on the AG's side (four or five of them 5/16" diameter) looked tobe missing.

    Now that I'm done with rivit counting it's a nice piece.

gary

Another side of the coin might be -

an averagely-capable modeller sees the piccies and thinks ' My models are better than that'. He gets encouraged, submits stuff for 'readers' gallery'. These satisfy the sometimes less-than-exacting standards of that section of the Magazine, and his work gets published. Averagely-capable modeller becomes proud of his work and confident in his ability, and is motivated to get even better. Result all round!

Another possibility is that MM takes the criticism that the models he posts here often, and justifiably, receive to heart, and passes them on to the guys from whom he buys his completed models. These, in turn, get their act together, and start to produce better models. Again, result all round!

But to turn to the original question, isn't this:

http://panzermodelkit.valka.cz/Pionaj.htm

the longest-barrelled self-prop currently in service?

Cheers,

Chris.

ajlafleche wrote:

Except that the critiques are very often on extremely basic flaws...silvered and crooked decals, mold and seam likes, fogged windshields, parts installed upside down, poor to non-existent stories in dioramas. These are not ripping critiques, but genuinely basic mistakes from rushed building.

JMart wrote:

This may be a "selfish" post, but I like to see MM posts because of the FEEDBACK that the more experiences modelers post. For example, I really learned from redleg12 response/critique of the build. But Im a newbie/hobby returnee, so this type of feedback/critique maybe old news to the regulars in here....  but remember it is the "not gold medal" type of builds (and critiques) that give us the most valuable lessons..

JMart - I'm glad you got something out of this mess. It was the reason I posted it. I don't want people thinking this was a correct build....it's not. It has some interesting items but for someone like myself who is into US artillery (and lived it) this build was way off. Looks good from a distance....but off

Rob & Heavy - No rank pulling , lets all have a cup of joe and forget MM.

Post comments for guys like JMart as MM & AI are not listening. JMart is a builder and as Heavy said this site is for the guys building and these threads let him know what is wrong, so we are helping the builders. If one person learns something it was worth the comments.

As for the pigs....well what about a talking horse??....I don't know where MM is in that mix but he is deaf to our comments, so lets help the rest see the mistakes.

Heavy - I'm usaully not into Peter Paul and Mary or Cumbya, more Steppenwolf...Born to be Wild.

I must of had one too many happy pills today....

Rounds Complete!!

HeavyArty wrote:

As to the longest SP gun, I believe it does have the longest barrel of any SP gun.

That's the way, finding something good....somewhere

Rounds Complete!!

oleander13 wrote:

I must admit, when I first saw this thread and viewed the photos, I was very impressed with the build.  I don't have the experience however, to tell when simple mistakes are neglected. I haven't even completed my first tank, and when I saw the critiques I immediately felt a bit aprehensive about posting my own work.

Don't feel afraid to post. You will be offered appropriate guidance and support. Guaranteed.

The OP gets somewhat harsher responses because he continues to present models with the same basic errors and never has his builders improve. His lack of netiqutte in only responding in his own threads annoys people as well. Some people bring out the best in others, some do the opposite.

Rob Gronovius wrote:

It's not much different from the photos you see in the magazine's reader's gallery or any other non-award winning modeler's build. There are probably casual modelers who see AI's work as better than theirs, and they think to themselves, "If AI's stuff gets ripped, there's no way I'm posting photos of my work."

I must admit, when I first saw this thread and viewed the photos, I was very impressed with the build.  I don't have the experience however, to tell when simple mistakes are neglected. I haven't even completed my first tank, and when I saw the critiques I immediately felt a bit aprehensive about posting my own work. 

Yeah, I know.  Why try? 

As to the longest SP gun, I believe it does have the longest barrel of any SP gun.

the doog wrote:

Rob Gronovius wrote:  HeavyArty wrote: Coombaya....Coombaya.... No, it's actually like the Robert Heinlein quote, "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." It's not much different from the photos you see in the magazine's reader's gallery or any other non-award winning modeler's build. There are probably casual modelers who see AI's work as better than theirs, and they think to themselves, "If AI's stuff gets ripped, there's no way I'm posting photos of my work." Wow. I never thought of it that way.... An astute observation...

Excellent ovservation.

Rob Gronovius wrote:

HeavyArty wrote: Coombaya....Coombaya.... No, it's actually like the Robert Heinlein quote, "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." It's not much different from the photos you see in the magazine's reader's gallery or any other non-award winning modeler's build. There are probably casual modelers who see AI's work as better than theirs, and they think to themselves, "If AI's stuff gets ripped, there's no way I'm posting photos of my work."

I never thought of it that way....

An astute observation... 

HeavyArty wrote:

Coombaya....Coombaya....

In other words, the critiques fall on deaf ears on his side, and the faults may not matter to him or else he would insist they be improved upon in subsequent builds. You make good observations and critiques in regards to the overall build, but your snide remarks make you look like a lesser man.

To quote another old saying, choose your battles wisely. This one's not worth winning or even starting. If you win, what? MM stops posting photos here? He starts to build kits for himself? AI starts to heed your critiques and posts his own photos? And you look like the FSM neighborhood bully? Some win.

It's not much different from the photos you see in the magazine's reader's gallery or any other non-award winning modeler's build. There are probably casual modelers who see AI's work as better than theirs, and they think to themselves, "If AI's stuff gets ripped, there's no way I'm posting photos of my work."

Hmmm.  Enlightening in an odd way.  Personally, I don't own anything I didn't build, but I suppose the pleasure from the hobby for some folks is to own and not build.

ajlafleche wrote:

oleander13 wrote:  Who am I to say what he should or shouldn't do You, as with every other poster, are part of this community. If someone (anyone, not just MM) behaves in a way that you find questionable, you have the right to call him out on it. Most people will learn what is acceptable behavior, whether it's not shouting (posting in all caps) or by giving back some of the kudos they receive.

Thanks AJ,  glad to know this forum really is as good as I thought it was.  It's nice to know that the community actually practices what it preaches.

And let me clarify my previous post....I don't think MM should only post "attaboys", but he should provide constructive criticism and point out flaws in a tactful manner as well as give the old "good job" if he's expecting it on his own posts.  After all, that is what should make us all better modelers.

oleander13 wrote:

Who am I to say what he should or shouldn't do

You, as with every other poster, are part of this community. If someone (anyone, not just MM) behaves in a way that you find questionable, you have the right to call him out on it. Most people will learn what is acceptable behavior, whether it's not shouting (posting in all caps) or by giving back some of the kudos they receive.

tigerman wrote:

Rob Gronovius wrote: May be just to share the work (whomever's) with the members here. He is obviously a fan of scale armor modeling and wants a larger audience to see the builders' work. Perhaps he does not have the skills or the time to build the kits himself and appreciates a more authentic looking model than a Forces of Valor model. Who knows (other than Model Maniac) as to the reasons, and why should any of us care? If you don't like to look at his models, don't. Snide remarks appear petty and should be beneath us. I agree. Sometime last year, he did share some of his own work. Perhaps he is busy or is publicly shy in presenting his own work, I really don't have an answer. He does appear to like armor modeling and if he's sharing others builds, what's wrong with that? Not everyone is a pro, nor do they care to be one.

I agree with both you and Rob's posts.  I enjoy looking at a model whether it's from an expert or a beginner.  I'm a beginner/rookie/novice/newbie myself, so seeing any type of work benefits me.

I understand that MM is a huge fan of armor and I think that's great.  My only gripe with him, however, is that his posts are pretty self-centered in nature.  By that I mean he posts his own models (whether built by him or not is irrelevant) and asks for all forms of comments and criticism without returning the favor in other threads.  I would like to see him posting in other threads commenting and passing those "attaboys" around to others.  But perhaps he's too busy to post in the other threads...that's very possible. 

 Who am I to say what he should or shouldn't do

Rob Gronovius wrote:

May be just to share the work (whomever's) with the members here. He is obviously a fan of scale armor modeling and wants a larger audience to see the builders' work. Perhaps he does not have the skills or the time to build the kits himself and appreciates a more authentic looking model than a Forces of Valor model. Who knows (other than Model Maniac) as to the reasons, and why should any of us care? If you don't like to look at his models, don't. Snide remarks appear petty and should be beneath us.

I agree. Sometime last year, he did share some of his own work. Perhaps he is busy or is publicly shy in presenting his own work, I really don't have an answer. He does appear to like armor modeling and if he's sharing others builds, what's wrong with that? Not everyone is a pro, nor do they care to be one.

Rob Gronovius wrote:

May be just to share the work (whomever's) with the members here. He is obviously a fan of scale armor modeling and wants a larger audience to see the builders' work. Perhaps he does not have the skills or the time to build the kits himself and appreciates a more authentic looking model than a Forces of Valor model. Who knows (other than Model Maniac) as to the reasons, and why should any of us care? If you don't like to look at his models, don't. Snide remarks appear petty and should be beneath us.

Roger that!

May be just to share the work (whomever's) with the members here. He is obviously a fan of scale armor modeling and wants a larger audience to see the builders' work. Perhaps he does not have the skills or the time to build the kits himself and appreciates a more authentic looking model than a Forces of Valor model.

Who knows (other than Model Maniac) as to the reasons, and why should any of us care? If you don't like to look at his models, don't. Snide remarks appear petty and should be beneath us.

i think he is posting it here for the feedback wich he can then pass on to his builders.

You haven't seen his posts for long then.  He doesn't pass the comments on and doesn't care about the quality.  The models never improve and his only responses are, "Thanks for the kind comments," or he makes excuses at to why they are the low quality they are.  The excuses usually deal with how pressed for time his builders are or that is the way all the "professional" builders in Thailand do it, etc.  All he seems to be looking for are "attaboys" on his purchases.  I don't even know why he posts here.

well you got a point there.. the part of the toys.

but what i meant to say was, don't need to get personal. just keep it to the build. i think he is posting it here for the feedback wich he can then pass on to his builders.

cheers rob

...also i think almost everybody (speaking for myself anyway) could only dream of such a collection.. made by yourself of someone else who get's payed.

Hmm, I guess we have different ideas on what a hobby is.  I would much rather have a small collection of well built models that I actually built, as opposed to a huge "collection" of mediocre kits that I bought.  For that, he may as well just buy a bunch of pre-made toys like those by Forces of Valor or the likes.  I thought this site was geared towards people who actually build models to display what they have built and discuss techniques, kits, etc.  Not a showcase for something that is bought.

well.. aside from the acuracy things mentioned above, i think the model looks great.

all the techniques on wich some of us (including me) struggle to get right look good to me. chipping, washes, ect.. lookin good there modelmaniac.

as for the post above, it's by now well known modelmaniac doesn't build the models himself, a while ago when he stopped posting because of these "not nice" remarks, everybody started asking where he was. also i think almost everybody (speaking for myself anyway) could only dream of such a collection.. made by yourself of someone else who get's payed.

 nuf said.. i'm going back building

Yup, another six foot gem.  Any closer and it starts looking pretty bad.  To add to Redleg's comments, the incorrect decals are silvered as well.  The tracks are all out of whack on the left side too. 

...probably my most prolific month of all time:

OOOHHH.  Meaning you bought a bunch of mediocre models built by other people.  You must be so proud of your accomplishment.

MM

OK build overall but....I started my military career (long ago) on one of these. A few quick things.

• I don't know if it is the lighting but it almost looks tan. These were phased out of service with the US Army in the late 70s. Their color was always OD Green. Isreal also used the M107, and this color is closer to their M107 than the US version
• WAY too many scratches. You would NEVER see a weapon looking in that shape. Scatches would always be touched up. The only place where it would be scrached and metal somewhat exposed would be on the recoil spade.
• The hydralic elevating cylinders (on either side of the barrel), the inside part of the cylinder will be shiny (polished). Any other state and they would not work.
• He has a mix of white bumper numbers on the front and back with black numbers and star on the side. They would not be mixed...either all white or all black.
• Barrel sled (under the barrel, groved area) would be a gunmetal color overall but the grove and high spots would be polished from the movement in the housing.
• Need to do a better job on the seams between the side skirt and main hull

As I said eye pleasing, but....not correct

Rounds Complete!!