DISASTER! What causes this?!

Man, that sux Doog ! Warming the cans is always a good way to improve flow, as far as I've ever heard, no problems attached. Maybe that Tam clear is a bit different. I don't guess it's a prep issue as your color-coats looked fine, but clearly they reacted with each other.......Hey you've discovered crackle-finish ! ok, not funny.    If you start all over I would go with the above advice and lightly sand the whole deal, prime, re-paint and use a totally diffferent clear-coat, as I suspect the formula is off in that can you have(best guess)

Thanks for your responses, guys, but I don't think either of those issues is it. Fort, the plastic was primed with Tamiya Fine White primer, one o fthe best there is, and then accpeted the paint just fine--in fact, painting was finished; all I had to do was clear coat it. Why it attacked BOTH the Krylon AND the Tamiya paint is beyond me!

Secondly, there was no residue of anything as far as I know on the finish. I washed it with dishwashing detergent (grease cutting) before painting, and rinsed thoroughly.If I don't figure this out, it's going to be a sincere problem if I paint this body again and have this happen. 

How much time are you allowing between the color coats and the clear coats? Mixing brands of paints in multicoat finishes can be a real crap shoot! Sorry to see the disaster.

I agree with the above post^^^your problem is incompatibility...the tamiya clear is too "hot" for the enamel,and inturn, is causing the reaction that you see.  The clear is not actually reacting with your primer, it is actually the reaction occuring between your color and clear coats that is causing theproblem.

I am in autobody, and I paint fairly often, and from time to time, you can try to shortcut the procedure,but more often than not, you get problems like yours...

You can try a coat or two of future over your color coat, and after that has dried, use your tamiya clear.

Justin

i recommend using dupli-color paint shop BSP-300 clear. it comes in a 1 quart can and can be airbrushed. its all pre thinned. just load it up and spray. it works over any paint, enamel, acrylic, lacquer . Ive used it on all and there is also no re-coat time window so you can put on as many coats as you want at any time be it 10 mins or 5 months lol.

and its sands and polishes polishes out awesome. and only cost 20 bucks!! should last you at least 20 or 30 cars if you do 3 coats.. you can find it at stores like Napa, Canadian tire etc..

Justinryan215 wrote:

I agree with the above post^^^your problem is incompatibility...the tamiya clear is too "hot" for the enamel,and inturn, is causing the reaction that you see.  The clear is not actually reacting with your primer, it is actually the reaction occuring between your color and clear coats that is causing theproblem. I am in autobody, and I paint fairly often, and from time to time, you can try to shortcut the procedure,but more often than not, you get problems like yours... You can try a coat or two of future over your color coat, and after that has dried, use your tamiya clear.   Justin

Could that be an example of too MUCH paint on top of paint?

I figured maybe that's what it was--incompatibility--but the fact that the Krylon crazed the Krylon makes me wonder what the heck else could be causing this?

I didn't know that Krylon was an enamel--man, it's one fast-curing enamel for sure! 

The drying time was about a good week, and it was hard enough to properly rub out a bit. It's not like I put it on the next day.

70mach1, I"m going to look for that Dupont clear! I can't get Future around here, for some reason. I have a small few containers of it that someone sent me, but I"m not sure how much I'd need for a whole car like this.

JTRACING wrote:

i recommend using dupli-color paint shop BSP-300 clear. it comes in a 1 quart can and can be airbrushed. its all pre thinned. just load it up and spray. it works over any paint, enamel, acrylic, lacquer . Ive used it on all and there is also no re-coat time window so you can put on as many coats as you want at any time be it 10 mins or 5 months lol. and its sands and polishes polishes out awesome. and only cost 20 bucks!! should last you at least 20 or 30 cars if you do 3 coats.. you can find it at stores like Napa, Canadian tire etc..

Thanks, JT! If that's what you use for your blinding-shiny finishes, that's something I'll have to look for too!  I appreciate your help too!

agentg wrote:

Karl I've had this happen before and here's why. The paint you laid down wasn't fully cured. That's why it occurred with Krylon over Krylon, and in this case Tamiya over Krylon. The underlying paint reacts with the fresh coat and "lifts". Krylon is considered a "modified" enamel. Modified in the sense that it dries quite a bit faster. Tamiya clear can be, and is a real mr to use.I will not use Tamiya clear over anything but Tamiya paint. Even then I allow the colorcoat at least a week to cure first. Some say it's safe if used within a certain amount of time,(recoat time) but I don't risk it. You are used to an airbrush which puts paint on a heck of a lot thinner than a spray can. Spray bombs require different techniques. Heating a spray can does help. Ambient temps seem ok. What really affects your finishes is humidity.

Man, I thought I'd let it dry long enough? It was hard enough to polish out a bit. 

Well, perhaps I'll be ok--I picked up some of that Dupont 300 stuff that JT recommended. I'm going to do some tests before I even tryit out for real. D'amn, but I wish that these finished were as easy as the Armor ones!

Thanks for anyone who lent some advice and knowledge, and thanks for all the suggestions! 

BigJim wrote:

My question is, why in the world would you use Krylon paint instead of a paint blended especially for models?

Prolly 'cause it's cheap & usually works fine ? I use one Krylon product alot I don't see mentioned ever in modeling--Krylon Matte Finish #1311-- It;s just an artists' spray fixitive I've been using since long ago doing pencil drawings. Not really a dull-coat, it's semi-matt, but holds down various paint & pigment layers for further work. Works great to seal Tamiya paint so It's not damaged during  continued work.....

~Doog~ was just reading Brett Green's article in the new(Dec) MMI , his kfz 251 Ausf D build and he's recommending " Tamiya TS-13 Clear straight from the can" (that's the one, right? Lucky # 13 ? ) he goes on " I have used this product a couple times recently, and am impressed with it's hard, glossy finish and fast drying time, Having a laquer base, you can use either oil or acylic washes over it too "   He's using it over a 2-tone camo of Tamiya acylic airbrushed and "two thin coats of Tan Filter"  over that. No info about drying time. He's just using the  TS-13 as decal-prep and   he's using it over Tamiya        I just mention all this 'cause I had just been reading him liking this product, just  as you are swearing it off.   No doubt Brett is a very good modeller(though he did kinda blow it on that finish for his Traction 11 on the cover month before last, that was kind of a de-bockle, he describes the struggle in that article)   Personnaly, I've found gloss coats to never be that easy or trouble free, from the auto-shop, to the wood-shop to the model-shop, and Future is just about the best bet(even if plenty of guys have had plenty of trouble even with that ! )

~Indy

BigJim wrote:

My question is, why in the world would you use Krylon paint instead of a paint blended especially for models?

I did a LOT of research into paints before starting into doing cars, and am still learning. Krylon is indeed cheap, and comes in a huge palette of colors. As long as you lay down a good primer, it's a wonderfully easy-to-use paint that dries super-fast, and polishes beautifully to a hi-gloss finish without even a clear coat.

The only reason I used a clear coat was to gloss up the Tamiya Black, which was a but inconsistent in shine. 

You can get a big can of Krylon for under $3.00, and in literally dozens of colors. It sprays on easliy, and cures quickly, I'm still not 100% sure what caused this disaster, but it wasn't the fault of the Krylon. It has something to do with either me polishing it and leaving residue, or something similar. INterestingly, this never happened when I was just shooting coat after coat--ONLYwhen I would sand the coats in between. I'm starting to think that I would be best to just shoot three coats and THEN sand and polish out.

ANd I'm going to try that Dupont stuff.

INDY wrote:

BigJim wrote: My question is, why in the world would you use Krylon paint instead of a paint blended especially for models? Prolly 'cause it's cheap & usually works fine ? I use one Krylon product alot I don't see mentioned ever in modeling--Krylon Matte Finish #1311-- It;s just an artists' spray fixitive I've been using since long ago doing pencil drawings. Not really a dull-coat, it's semi-matt, but holds down various paint & pigment layers for further work. Works great to seal Tamiya paint so It's not damaged during  continued work..... ~Doog~ was just reading Brett Green's article in the new(Dec) MMI , his kfz 251 Ausf D build and he's recommending " Tamiya TS-13 Clear straight from the can" (that's the one, right? Lucky # 13 ? ) he goes on " I have used this product a couple times recently, and am impressed with it's hard, glossy finish and fast drying time, Having a laquer base, you can use either oil or acylic washes over it too "   He's using it over a 2-tone camo of Tamiya acylic airbrushed and "two thin coats of Tan Filter"  over that. No info about drying time. He's just using the  TS-13 as decal-prep and   he's using it over Tamiya        I just mention all this 'cause I had just been reading him liking this product, just  as you are swearing it off.   No doubt Brett is a very good modeller(though he did kinda blow it on that finish for his Traction 11 on the cover month before last, that was kind of a de-bockle, he describes the struggle in that article)   Personnaly, I've found gloss coats to never be that easy or trouble free, from the auto-shop, to the wood-shop to the model-shop, and Future is just about the best bet(even if plenty of guys have had plenty of trouble even with that ! ) ~Indy

I used the Tamiya Gloss over my McLaren M16 Johnny Rutherford indy car. and it looked great! That was painted with Tamiya paints. so I willl just have to use it over Tamiya paints.

Brizio wrote:

Just a guess, what about humidity? Did you paint inside or outside?

Ok...

Probably like they said the different brand was not compatible... :(

If itwas anything caused by polishing compoundlefton the surface, it would do what iscalled 'fish eye'  where the paint seems to be forced away from the center of what looks like a ring of dark paint.  The only thing Ican come up with is maybetry letting the car body sit for a few days after sanding before clear coating it...maybe the scratches from smoothing it out 'open up' the top surface, and it needs to curealittle bit more.

As for thecomment about some guys using actual automotive paints...I am fortunate enough to be in autobody, and I also paint, and we often have leftover paint that I use when I paint my model cars...

Hi,

I've had exactly the same effect from spraying Tamiya TS-13 over enamel. The solvent in TS-13 is too 'hot' for the enamel. I'm not familiar with Krylon, but in my opinion, every time you spray TS-13 over enamel, you're rolling the dice, particularly if your coat is a little on the heavy side. It doesn't matter how dry your enamel coat is either.

I use TS-13 all the time, but only over other Tamiya aerosol paint. If you do racing cars like me, don't go too heavy either, it can cause the decals to blister up. If you get it right, its a brilliant, hard, durable, even, non yellowing, easy to love product.

Cheers

Tony

Thanks, Justin, and Tony!

Justin, I've wonderd too if that polishing compound could have been an issue. The reason I think that is because when I would spray simply Krylon ober the Krylon, the same darned thing would happen. Or at least it looked the same; it's entirely possible I suppose that I've had two diffferent reactions here that mimicked each other?

Tony, I think you're right too, about the "hot" nature of the Tamiya clear. I've been doing some research over at Scale Auto forum, and that seems to be the general warning as well.I am forewarned...

Thanks for your input, guys!

Being someone who uses all sorts of different paints at work (auto restoration), I can say that there are a lot of good questions and answers here. Sounds like your environment was pretty good (spraybooth, humidity level that isnt hateful, etc...).

Always things to think about before you paint:

Have any spray or aerosol products been used in the house (or work area) in the last hour?

Are there any open containers of petroleum based products anywhere near your work area?

How long ago did I spray my last coat?

Is there any more bacon in the fridge?

From the photo, it looks to me like your previous coats were still 'gassing out', meaning that they hadn't fully cured. Most modified and multi component paints have several curing agents and other chemicals that basically need to evaporate for the paint to completely set. If you spray another layer on top, it traps those gasses in, and you get the results that you witnessed, Doog.

I rarely shoot anything glossy with models, but the best bet is that when you decide that the paint has cured long enough, wait one more day.

Hope this info helps.

Steve

666Irish wrote:

Is there any more bacon in the fridge?

Mmmmm, bacon!

the doog wrote:

Brizio wrote: Just a guess, what about humidity? Did you paint inside or outside? Painted inside, in the spray booth. The humidity was negligible, really.

Doog,

I had this problem over the summer on a project i was working at my house. I was also using Krylon. I was on the last layer of paint when it krinkled. I found out that I was holding the spray can too close to what i was painting so the aerosol liquid was hitting the painted surface. I had to sand the surface and start over. but i made sure to stand 2 feet back while i was spraying and didn't have the problem again

Hi all

My name is josh i have posted here before i was just looking around when i came across this. Sorry doog your post are really good i look for your post to see what you have came out, I have been painting for a while now and I'm no pro but it all come's down to your prep on all paint's they use different compounds( when i was a kid cleaning the bathroom i was so mad i had to do so i started mixing different cem together and found out that was a bad idea lol) some paints dont mix well with other it could be the pigment in the paint or just bad paint?

test all you paint together on a scrap peace, on that note the only thing i can say simple green