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well, here's a very stupid question....

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  • Member since
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  • From: East TX
Posted by modelchasm on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 6:43 AM

Howdy Jim ...

First off, it's not a stupid question ... anyone that tells you that they never asked it is a liar!

Check out my OIF Figure thread about my 120mm figure. The first post will walk you through the painting of the face. I HIGHLY recommend purchasing the FSM book, "how to paint realistic military figures" ... osprey also has a good book, "modelling and painting figures". However, any good figure/ modeling book should walk you through the steps.

I like the FSM book, b/c it takes it a step further. It takes you through the steps using enamels, acrylics (my preferred), and oils. It talks about the advantages and dis advantages to all.

But, to try and sum up your question (per how I do it) .... First, I would apply a couple of coats of you base color, at least two coats. Then, I go back over it with a darker version of the base color using a wash. Then, I darken the base color again, and using a fine 000 brush, I purposefully pic out the "dark" spots. Best way to do this I've found is to take a black and white picture of the item you're painting and go from there. Then, I go back with a lightened version of the base color for the highlights. Of course, making sure that all these shades are blended as we go. I typically do the eyes (120mm only) after the highlights. The steps are pretty similiar for all scales. Just in the larger scales you have to be more careful of blending and detail work.

One thing to keep in mind is that a 120mm represents a real person at about 10'. A 1/35 figure represents a real person at about 20'. Keep this in mind when you start thinking about how detailed you want to get. How much detail can you REALLY see at 10' ... at 20'.... Just think about it.

Also keep in mind that everyone here has there different tricks. I like to learn by the book, and then test new ideas out branching off those methods.

Best way to learn is to just get to it. Go buy a GI JOE figure if you don't want to test on your actually build. It's cheap, and you can use it as a test-bed for other things as well.

Just my thoughts....

"If you're not scratching, you're not trying!"  -Scott

  • Member since
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  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 6:55 AM

well jim, guess i'll be the first reply. everyone has their own way of painting flesh but its all "pretty much" the same. i found a book at my local hobby shop by francois verlinden called "the system" vol. 1 figure painting. i cant tell you how much this book has helped me in my figure painting especially the flesh tones. so i scanned my copy...i hope this works and i hope this works 4 ya. its invaluable to me!

but like i said, you'll probably get 6 different answers. hope that helps!

"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
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Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 7:06 AM
never mind, modelchasm beat me to the punch. as i said....everyone has his or her own way!
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
  • Member since
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 10:28 AM
Wow..... that was amazing modelchasm, thank you so very much your post about your 120mm figure, liked it so much I read the whole thing, right through to the end. your job on that face was, well, I'm speechless man, that's better that I could do in a million years, thank you so much!!!!! and camo junkie, thank you for your help, the copied pages were very helpful, again, thank you both very much, your comments were very helpful.


Thanks, Jim
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
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  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 2:16 PM

 hey n.p. i'm just glad if its helping you. seems to me (and now this might p.o. a few people or might not who knows but its nothing personal to ANYONE here in the forum), like alot of people give very vague answers or dont tell you everything for what you need to do or know. And i understand when you really want to know an answer and really want help and you cant get it (or they dont want to tell you?). however, that is merely my observation only and may or may not be true.

  i realize the pages i scanned were cut off but even if you just look at the pics you can understand it step by step! it works...really does! Thumbs Up [tup]

"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
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Posted by dupes on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 3:41 PM
You've already gotten some good replies, I know I've read through another thread here on the forum from a few months back a lot - search for "Hermes figure painting tutorial". He's done a great one on how to get more than satisfactory results using just acrylics. Thumbs Up [tup]
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 4:56 PM
OK, cool, thanks guys, and one more question, for 1/35 scale figures, is it better to assemble then paint, or to paint then assemble.
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 5:03 PM
oh yeah, I forgot, once you have started the painting process, on the 1/35 scale figures( whenever it should come ), is it better to paint the uniform areas first, or the flesh areas first?
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
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Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 5:20 PM

 model maniac 96 wrote:
oh yeah, I forgot, once you have started the painting process, on the 1/35 scale figures( whenever it should come ), is it better to paint the uniform areas first, or the flesh areas first?

depends on what your painting (figure wise). i almost always paint the flesh first, especially if you follow the method i gave you. oil paints always make a mess from the constant "removal" of excess paint that always ends up with excess on the uniform. by doing it this way, you can paint the uniform and "cover and hide" by painting over it. again, you will probably have many other answers on this...this is just how i do it. naturally, regardless of whichever you choose to paint first, ya just dont want to mess up what ya already did...i think that makes sense! Sign - Dots [#dots]

"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
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Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 5:25 PM
btw, in my opinion only, 1/35 scale=better to assemble then paint. 1/200=better to paint then assemble...that's just me!
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
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  • From: East TX
Posted by modelchasm on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 5:35 PM

However you paint ... in pieces or assembled ... ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS paint from the inside - out.

Basically, whatever is underneath something ... that will always get painted first. Here's the way it was explained to me. First, you paint the under-roos. Then the under shirt ... then the outer shirt (if its tucked in) ... then the pants, then the belt.

Make sense? But trust me .... you'll only have to do it wrong once before you figure it out for yourself!

 

"If you're not scratching, you're not trying!"  -Scott

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Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 7:02 PM
 modelchasm wrote:

 

Make sense? But trust me .... you'll only have to do it wrong once before you figure it out for yourself!

 

amen brother! listen to this guy!

"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
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Posted by modelchasm on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 7:11 PM

Gee, thanks, camo!?! Make me sound like I did it wrong twice or something!?!?! ...

... ok .... I did. Laugh [(-D]

"If you're not scratching, you're not trying!"  -Scott

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Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 9:15 PM
 its that third one you have to look out for bud! Mischief [:-,]
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
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Posted by modelchasm on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 9:33 PM

Yeah, no kidding!?! Laugh [(-D]

"If you're not scratching, you're not trying!"  -Scott

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 10:49 PM
Thanks so much guys!!!!!! I really think I might be able to make a half-way decent figure, well maybe.....


Thanks, Jim
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 10:53 PM
oh yeah, and same you would use the same basic process to paint the hands right??


Thanks, Jim
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
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Posted by modelchasm on Wednesday, March 4, 2009 12:46 AM

Yeah. You can also appply this method to basic uniform colors as well ... until you start getting into camo colors.

Take my OIF figure for example. The base color is deck tan (Vallejo), the mid-tone is a grey color, and the dark tone is a darker version of the mid-tone. The shadows were created using a slighting darker color of the dark-tone, thinning it out to a nice wash. For the highlights, I just drybrushed the base color over the finished uniform. I had wanted to make the vest and helmet colors a little lighter (sun faded) but I was getting lazy having to paint the ACU pattern, and so I didn't feel like mixing more colors. Hind-sight ... I wish that I had taken the time. It would have only set me back a day or two and it would have been totally worth it.

Bottom-line ... take your dang time. If you get tired of it or frustrated .... put it down, step back and come back later on. $10 bucks says that when you come back, you'll be surprised at how well it looks ... well, most of the time .... so make that $5 bucks!

Hope that helps. Keep the ????'s coming ..... we know you gottem'....

"If you're not scratching, you're not trying!"  -Scott

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Posted by modelchasm on Wednesday, March 4, 2009 12:50 AM

Hey, one thing that everyone has failed to mention thus far (either that or I'm really tired ... congrats, you get my last post...)

You need to be looking at what you're going to be painting with first!!?! Oils, enamels, acrylics ... each one is going to have it's own little quirks and ways to be handled.

Ok, now it's sleepy-time ..... Zzz [zzz]

"If you're not scratching, you're not trying!"  -Scott

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Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, March 4, 2009 1:03 AM

My technique is to just paint the face & hands in the basic "flesh" color I use, usually MM Radome Tan... Then I shade and highlight with lightened and darkened shades of the same, using a burnt umber wash in between fingers... For eyes, I don't do the whites and all that.. My guys are out in the sun and squint, so they're little more than narrow black slits... I paint them to be viewed from normal viewing distances, 5 to 12 inches away from the eye, not to be photographed up close and a 1/35th figure turned into a 1/12th GI Joe-size photo on a computer monitor...  LOL, I doubt that I'll ever approach what some of these guys do here.. I just can't see that well anymore for close up work... 

 

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Posted by camo junkie on Wednesday, March 4, 2009 7:28 AM

see, everyone has their own way. you have to discover through doing, what makes a good figure for you. find a system that works whether your using acrylics, enamels, oil or a combination. (dont be affraid to use all 3 mediums). i assure you (from a mediocre guy Laugh [(-D]) you'll get really great results your second or third time. so dont get discouraged and no matter what...listen to these guys, they are masters of their crafts!!

 btw, if you use enamels as i do (not sure about the acrylics myself), i usually take a spare sprue from one of my kits dip it into the paint, get a small blob on it and then put it on a cheap $1 plastic painters pallet (although spare styrene or just about anything will work) then use an eye dropper and drop one drop of paint thinner and mix it around. reason being is that thin paint applies better (no clumps), dries faster and looks more realistic. i'm sure that same "basic" idea applies to acrylics as well.

as you can see, i wouldnt write home about any of these figures but they were done with the techniques i told you about (enamel and oil). you can see what "hans" means about the eyes...the oif guy is one of my latest and i left the eyes out...the oil color "filled" it in and considering the scale...its ok as is! most of the other figs were done through variouos stages of practice. just take your time and remember...its paint....you make a mistake...you can always "give it another coat". Wink [;)]

"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
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Posted by commando on Wednesday, March 4, 2009 7:48 AM
Just adding my My 2 cents [2c].  Priming the figure is important.  I've heard horror stories about bleed through, or fading of the flesh color, letting the plastic to show after a couple of years sitting on the shelf.  I haven't been doing this as long as the other guys.  But that little bit of advice always seems to stick in my mind when I'm starting on figures.  I guess the rest is personal preference.  Find what works best for you.  I've adopted different things I've heard & read.  But I always start with the flesh color & work to the darker colors.

'A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.' -Thomas Jefferson -

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Posted by camo junkie on Wednesday, March 4, 2009 9:41 AM

Sign - Ditto [#ditto]

"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
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Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, March 4, 2009 9:49 AM
I only prime if I use Tamiya acrylics or the plastic is a dark color, or I'm using metal figures... Tamiya's aggravating as hell otherwise, lifting off the surface all the time..   They're ok sprayed on though, but I always shoot 'em with a spritz of Dullcoat before handling them and going onwards with the highlighting/shadowing/blending steps..

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Posted by modelchasm on Wednesday, March 4, 2009 11:03 AM

Also .... sounds really dumb, and I never really believed it until it ruined a figure (had to start over on that one...)

.... Get into the habit of washing your hands before you sit down to work ... every time. ESPECIALLY after you eat. Some references will tell you to wash the model before starting to work on it. I still don't believe that one, however, I DO wash it before it hits the booth. (Recant that one ... the only time that I typically wash a model BEFORE construction is if its a resin casting that I've done. Not really worried about commercial casts, but sometimes I don't quite get the ratios right and they might have a little residue on them.) After the first coat of primer goes on, I'm religious about keeping my hands clean when getting ready to handle the model. Since I use acrylics, after I put that first coat on, I don't want to be scrubbing dirt and oil off.

Hope you're taking notes ... this is a pretty good thread.

camo, glad to get a closer look at that OIF figure .... You nailed that tri-color camo as well as the base. The face looks nice too!

"If you're not scratching, you're not trying!"  -Scott

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Posted by camo junkie on Wednesday, March 4, 2009 11:26 AM
 modelchasm wrote:

 

 

camo, glad to get a closer look at that OIF figure .... You nailed that tri-color camo as well as the base. The face looks nice too!

yeah well model, dont tell p.o. that...lol...he thinks i only came "close" to the "grey/green" color! as far as the camo...was just getting somewhat good and the military had to go and change to that Censored [censored] digital pattern!! Laugh [(-D]

"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
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Posted by commando on Wednesday, March 4, 2009 5:17 PM
 modelchasm wrote:

.... Get into the habit of washing your hands before you sit down to work ... every time. ESPECIALLY after you eat.

Nothing like a model with a "BIG OL'FINGER PRINT" on it.Boohoo [BH]

Notice the finger print, lower right above #2 &#3 road wheels. Yuck [yuck]

'A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.' -Thomas Jefferson -

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Wednesday, March 4, 2009 11:01 PM
wow, great, thanks guys!!!! this has really helped me, thank you all so very much.


thanks a bunch, Jim
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:17 PM
OK guys, new question for you, is it better to use enamels or acrylics for flesh areas?? and which brand is best?

Thanks in advance, Jim
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:13 PM
Oh yeah, and can I ask one more question?? when you are doing the last highlight on skin areas, are you supposed to pick that out with a fine 000 brush? or just dry brush it.

Thanks, Jim
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Posted by camo junkie on Monday, March 16, 2009 1:22 PM
jim, ask as many ?'s as u want, only way 2 learn. like all u'r other ?'s...just depends on how u'r painting them/what u'r using on them. is it acrylics, oils, enamals?
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Monday, March 16, 2009 1:25 PM
So far I have been using Tamiya acrylics, and getting pretty good results with them.


Thanks, Jim
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Posted by camo junkie on Monday, March 16, 2009 1:29 PM
ok...well....haha....i cant help ya there....ya need someone with acryl. experience!! i'm sure someone will post an answer for ya soon. i'f i had to guess (only) maybe a drybrush?? again only a guess. sorry cant be more help in this case!
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Monday, March 16, 2009 10:17 PM
 camo junkie wrote:
ok...well....haha....i cant help ya there....ya need someone with acryl. experience!! i'm sure someone will post an answer for ya soon. i'f i had to guess (only) maybe a drybrush?? again only a guess. sorry cant be more help in this case!


no problem, thanks for answering though.

Jim
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Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:23 AM
anytime Thumbs Up [tup]
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Posted by ajlafleche on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:55 AM

If you're going the acrylic route, Vallejo and Andrea are the way to go. Period. They are specifically designed for figure painting, i.e., brush application. The paint will run out before it dries out. I've had some for ten years and it's as fresh as new.

Highlights: Unless you're doing something very textured like fur or hair, NEVER drybrush. Add layers of very thinned until it shows.

My recipe for caucasian flesh is this

Base color: beige red

Shadows: add (Vallejo games) Dark fleshtone

First highlight: Add pale flesh to beige red

Top highlight: Straight thinned pale flesh.

Go here and click on "model Color" then scroll down for the Vellejo tutorial.

If you need to paint ethnic skintones, go here.

Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

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Posted by psstoff995 on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 12:18 PM

 camo junkie wrote:
 modelchasm wrote:


camo, glad to get a closer look at that OIF figure .... You nailed that tri-color camo as well as the base. The face looks nice too!



yeah well model, dont tell p.o. that...lol...he thinks i only came "close" to the "grey/green" color! as far as the camo...was just getting somewhat good and the military had to go and change to that Censored [censored] digital pattern!! Laugh [(-D]



Hey wait a minute! I was looking at a tiny little figure about 1" tall on my computer screen- and I said I think you got closer than anyone I've ever seen who has tried to paint that 3rd color! And it was tiny!!! Now that I have a shot that puts him at his actual scale- I agree- you got it dead on.



Look how greenish mine is!! It looks so goofy on his parka after seeing yours

Jim- As for what paints to use, what’s best etc. If you notice in the background of that shot- I use everything from Testors and Model Master Enamels, Model Master Acrylic, Tamiya Acrylic, even craft store Apple Barrel and Delta Creamcoat Acrylic colors.

The two 1/16 scale figures in the foreground were made with primarily Acrylics, the craft store kind to be exact. The one thing I like about the Acrylics is that I can finish one layer real nice, then spray on a coat of Krylon Matte Finish over top (which is some kind of Enamel based system I believe) and then do washes (with water as my thinner) right over top the clear coat (which, without the clear coat would start to cause the original Acrylic to lift and peel) and if I want to drastically change it, I can use a lot of water thinner and clear off the mistakes, leaving everything under the clear coat intact.

If you want to skip the clear coat, you can do all of your primary painting with Enamels, then do your shading and washes with thinned Acrylic and it would damage the undercoats- if you mess up, just get a bunch of water and lightly scrub away.

The way I chose one over the other- simply based on what color I want. Enamels make better OD greens and military colors in general IMHO, but sometimes they need a few coats. My craft store Acrylics have some nice tans and skin tones- and when it comes to me and mixing paints, I only use Acrylics to mix as they can be thinned with water. Also- I think when it comes to painting “wet on wet”, Oils are by far the best- so if you want to do gradient style shading on your flesh tones, use Oils, in my experience, Enamels will dry a little slower than Acrylics, but it depends on how much thinner, what kind of colors/effects you’re going for. I don’t have any flesh colors in any medium other than Acrylics, so that’s what I use. I’d love to try Oils I suppose, but it’s almost a little too slow for me.

I like working fast and nothing beats Acrylic for that

Sorry for the long-winded post, had to catch up a bit!

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

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Posted by psstoff995 on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 12:23 PM
 ajlafleche wrote:

Highlights: Unless you're doing something very textured like fur or hair, NEVER drybrush. Add layers of very thinned until it shows.


I like working fast and nothing beats Acrylic for that.

I agree, however sometimes if I’m planning on putting multiple future coats (not the floor polish stuff- if I’m planning on putting a lot of coats on in the future)- I’ll drybrush the highlight color onto the model, just so I know where the extreme highlights are- sometimes in 1/35 it’s difficult to tell the exact features of the face you’re dealing with. But I do agree, thin coats with subtle differences in color over lots of layers makes for a much more realistic skin tone. As far as uniforms and equipment, in 1/35 you can use washes and drybrushing pretty effectively, however once you start getting much bigger than that, it’s usually better to apply individually by brush- someone wrote up a real nice explanation, let me dig it up.

Edit- here you go!

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

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Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 12:41 PM
 psstoff995 wrote:

 camo junkie wrote:
 modelchasm wrote:


camo, glad to get a closer look at that OIF figure .... You nailed that tri-color camo as well as the base. The face looks nice too!



yeah well model, dont tell p.o. that...lol...he thinks i only came "close" to the "grey/green" color! as far as the camo...was just getting somewhat good and the military had to go and change to that Censored [censored] digital pattern!! Laugh [(-D]



Hey wait a minute! I was looking at a tiny little figure about 1" tall on my computer screen- and I said I think you got closer than anyone I've ever seen who has tried to paint that 3rd color! And it was tiny!!! Now that I have a shot that puts him at his actual scale- I agree- you got it dead on.



Look how greenish mine is!! It looks so goofy on his parka after seeing yours

sorry p.o. was only being sarcastic and giving you a hard time...LOL. thought u saw that aaallloooonnnngggg time ago.

"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
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Posted by psstoff995 on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:00 PM
lol nah, just making sure you didn't think I thought it was only so-so, it really was top notch stuff

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:41 AM

Thanks guys for all your help, it is really helping my figure painting skills.Propeller [8-]

 

                                JimSmile [:)]

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Posted by camo junkie on Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:36 PM
good now when ya going to show us some pics??? Whistling [:-^]
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Friday, March 20, 2009 10:05 PM
tonight I hope, just keep watching this thread, but beware I haven't made that much progress.

Thanks, Jim
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Posted by psstoff995 on Friday, March 20, 2009 10:15 PM

 model maniac 96 wrote:
but beware I haven't made that much progress.

Thanks, Jim

Don't worry- camo's used to seeing updates from me!! Laugh [(-D]

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Friday, March 20, 2009 10:56 PM
 psstoff995 wrote:

 model maniac 96 wrote:
but beware I haven't made that much progress.

Thanks, Jim

Don't worry- camo's used to seeing updates from me!! Laugh [(-D]



ha ha......
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Posted by camo junkie on Saturday, March 21, 2009 6:32 AM
yeah, p.o.'s not much for speed... Whistling [:-^] (j/k)...i'll feel lately im not either!
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Sunday, March 22, 2009 6:54 PM

Well guys, here it is: Some of my new figures for my upcoming Seelow Vingette. Hope you like them! faces are almost done, and the gaps have been filled and sanded.Party [party] Constructive criticism and compliments are always welcome.  

These are just the figures from the vingette. You can check out the full WIP at

/forums/31/957046/ShowPost.aspx#957046

Jim Smile [:)]

 

 

"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
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Posted by camo junkie on Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:54 PM

hey jim, they look like they're coming along. judging from your pics, did you happen to "remove" the mold seams on your figs? i only ask because it looks like they are still there. not a big deal. dont know what your finacial situation is, but you might want to invest in some small files. (i use them on my plastic figs to remove the seams. its an easy process. i also use them to "sand" flatter edges so the torso and legs, etc. fit better. (a hole lot less filling when done that way...filing the joints makes it easier)!! also you might (and this is just my way) get yourself some abroid pro-weld. its fantastic for plastic figs, goes on easily and if ya press down tight (and do it right) no filling and sanding!!!! runs anywhere from $2.50-$4.00 a bottle depending where ya get it! that's my way of doing it...and of course my way isnt gospel...but is my My 2 cents [2c].

anyway, anxious to see them fully painted. you've got the right idea sir. keep the pics coming. Thumbs Up [tup]

"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
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Posted by psstoff995 on Sunday, March 22, 2009 11:44 PM
I agree with camo- you definitely have the right idea. The colors look pretty good, I think in the future you might want to prime the plastic, or perhaps add a few extra coats of the base color as the gray plastic looks like it might be showing through? Or perhaps your washes were too thin? The poses look nice- always a fan of a dio and I can already tell they’re a few artillery men am I right? -perhaps a motar crew

-Chris

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Posted by camo junkie on Monday, March 23, 2009 10:04 AM
priming would work as p.o. suggested. what's going on is that your "stripping"/"lifting" the undercoat of paint off. DONT get discouraged....i used to do the same thing which is y i say your on the right track...(also y i switched to enamels...lol). see, if u look at your pics u can see the plastic showing through the hands and faces and unfortunately, there is no short cuts to painting figures. you have to prime, let it dry then paint. p.o. can tell ya what to do exactly with acrylics (along with many others)...as i said not much help in that department. although the same basic rules still apply. like i said though dont let my comments discourage you, or think you need to throw these guys away...u dont. i tried the acrylics, was doing it the exact same way you were b4 i realized 1) i didnt like painting with acrylics 2) i needed to prime my figs 3) i needed to let my base coat dry...Whistling [:-^] 4) needed to file away/remove the mold seems and make joints fit better...while tedious...makes a hell of a difference and i havent needed to "fill" any joints with putty in a few years now! 5) cannot take ANY shortcuts if i wanted to achieve good results. 6) a miniature file works wonders on plastic figs!! somethings to think about buddy...but you got the right idea and i know (based on my own painting) your gonna get it and get it soon!!! Thumbs Up [tup]
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Posted by camo junkie on Monday, March 23, 2009 10:08 AM
btw jim, the reason y the paint is "lifting" is because you didnt prime them. the paint needs something to "stick" to and therefore wont "lift" with your brush strokes! do that and let it dry then paint...you'll see remarkable improvements!
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Monday, March 23, 2009 10:46 AM

all right, thanks guys! psstoff, you are good man, you shure do know your stuff, the kit is a dragon 8cm mortar. And camo junkie, ok I will try primeing next time, but I was wondering, do you think that I shuold prime these figures right now, because I have the faces done and have also finished the base color on the figuresSigh [sigh], that would take a wile to redo, what do you think???Confused [%-)]

             Thanks, JimSmile [:)]

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Posted by psstoff995 on Monday, March 23, 2009 11:20 AM
Very cool! Lucky guess haha Hmm... I think if you have the faces and base color done to your liking, that might be fine for your first set of figures. I think what you can do is use the base coat, now that it’s dry- as your first layer to prime the plastic so the next layers can stick.

You can start laying the paint on top of the base coat as long as the gray plastic doesn’t show through you’re doing fine for your first set of 1/35 figures. Camo knows his stuff, he’ll give you some pretty good advise next time around on priming and sanding and filling.

-Chris

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Monday, March 23, 2009 12:58 PM
great, thanks man! I was not going to be happy if I had to prime over a week of total work...


Jim
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Posted by camo junkie on Monday, March 23, 2009 1:01 PM

jim, just follow what p.o. has said 4 now. think of it this way...if in the end you dont like them...you can always repaint them with a primer coat etc. again like p.o. stated, you could use it as a base coat/primer and repaint...however, i know what that intails and unless your sure you want to do that then dont worry about it. picasso wasnt an artist right away either without practice.

as far as p.o. saying i can give ya advice on priming,sanding and filling...LOL...guy doesnt know me as well as he must think he does....haha. as i said, i dont fill/sand if i can help it. one figure i am working on though i have no choice i just cant get the gap between the resin and plastic to "fit" without sanding it down to nothing...therefore i will fill it (but only a small gap). even if you dont want to get some small files...use some sanding paper and gently sand the torso and leg joints as well as the arms. remember though, the idea is not to remove details...just seams and making a "tighter" fit with minimal to no filling and sanding!

with that, keep it going. you may be having problems with the little stuff and may paint a uniform worthy of gold...who knows...dont give up, and believe me again from my own experiences...you'll get there in no time!!!

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Posted by psstoff995 on Monday, March 23, 2009 1:24 PM
 camo junkie wrote:


as far as p.o. saying i can give ya advice on priming,sanding and filling...LOL...guy doesnt know me as well as he must think he does....haha.



Hey now-



These figures have no gaps, are painted very well and look great! You might have cheated on the sanding and filling lol but they turn out like you know what you're doing Tongue [:P]

-Chris

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Posted by camo junkie on Monday, March 23, 2009 1:38 PM
hahaha....awe p.o. seems like your the sensitive kind....lol. j/k buddy. again...only giving you a hard time.... Mischief [:-,].
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Posted by psstoff995 on Monday, March 23, 2009 5:14 PM
hahahaha well hey- how I'm I supposed to live vicariously through your updates if you wont even admit them to be decent filled and sanded 1/35 figures??

BTW do all those figures have a dio in mind? I’d love to see the one you have cooked up for the Delta guy in Woodland Camo

-Chris

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Posted by camo junkie on Monday, March 23, 2009 6:30 PM
actually i already have him in a dio. my very very first one. maybe i'll post a few pics but its "pretty bad" ...lol Whistling [:-^]
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Posted by psstoff995 on Monday, March 23, 2009 6:49 PM
HA!!! Did I ever tell you about my first dio? Whistling [:-^]

-Chris

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Monday, March 23, 2009 8:14 PM
thanks for all your help guys, and BTW, does anybody out there know how to do halfway decent German camouflage?? cuz i have been trying my hand at it, and let's just say that it has not been going very well, so any help would be great!

Thanks, Jim
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Posted by psstoff995 on Monday, March 23, 2009 10:09 PM
You mean like pea pattern? I'd say a reaaaal fine brush and just stab the paint onto the model in a polka dot kinda layered pattern?

-Chris

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Posted by camo junkie on Monday, March 23, 2009 10:26 PM

maybe these will help ya buddy. the pics are pretty self explanitory. but any ?'s i'll try to help ya as best i can. keep in mind that all of these pics were painted using enamels but again, the same basic rules apply.

i hope these help you in some way. i'm not a ww2 guy, so i cant help you out with colors...but p.o. (along with many others) can help you out that way. i can however (as i hope u can see) will help u any other way i can. good luck! Thumbs Up [tup]

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Monday, March 23, 2009 11:16 PM
WOW!!!!!! thank you so much camo junkie, that stuff was amazing, wow...... I can not thank you enough..... thank you, thank you, thank you. that was a huge help!!



Thanks a bunch, Jim
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Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:34 AM

n/p m.m. just remember again that these were painted using enamels and oils not acrylics. your going to get different results using acrylics in that (my opinion) the colors wont be as "rich" may be "lighter". also dont get discouraged if yours doesnt match his....he's a well known professional...even i cant match his level of painting!!! the basic thing you have to see is in the pics themselves. paint your figs (camo design wise, etc.) like he shows you...*ie little patterns and stuff on the uniforms. also, its ok to "cheat". many of those figures i painted and showed you their camo was painted NOT in any particuliar patterns but rather me and my brush just simply "making" random patterns!! a little bit of advice...you dont have to paint it correctly...you just have to make it LOOK like you painted it correctly!!! make sense? 1) it makes it easier to paint 2) it eases the mind so it makes it easier to paint. just as always my My 2 cents [2c]

as far as the thanks...no big deal. remember what i said about not everyone "seems" interested in giving you info like this. dont know if that's really the case but i do know how hard it is to "find" good help! my only goal is to help as many as i can because i've been there and couldnt find the help i needed so i started doing it myself so i know how frustrating it can be! alot of the guys here will help you...i believe that...just sometimes its hard to convey what you need or they're not always interested in repeating the same things over and over again...but who knows. like i said...i'll help where i can so no big deal jim!

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Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 9:37 AM
btw jim, one very very important thing that i (nor anyone else) failed to mention, you should attach your figures to some sort of "handle" while you paint. 1) keeps skin oil off of figs and paint 2) makes it easier to hold and paint! make sense. for instance look at the pics i just made for you. notice how the author has "attached/glued" to different "bases/handles". that's to hold onto while you paint. if you look at my figs in that pic, you'll see one glued to a piece of wood. i use just a drop (DO NOT OVER DO IT) on one foot (very light glue) and set him to the wood and let dry for a few hours b4 painting. anything will do, plastic, wood, wooden door handles...whatever works. you just dont want to handle your figures while painting! the oil in your skin can make the paint not adhere and also "clump" and peel the paint! anyway, when your done painting all you have to do is GENTLY "break" the guy off of the handle...its also easy to break him if you push too hard while painting so gentle strokes with the brush...otherwise you have to reglue in the middle of painting...lol....Whistling [:-^]. again...good painting buddy! Thumbs Up [tup]
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Posted by psstoff995 on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 11:21 AM
WOAH! Nice pictures camo- that'll help me out in the future as well. I'll second what you said about mounting them to something and keeping your hands off- also photographer's dark room dust-less gloves work very nice for when you do have to handle the model.

-Chris

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Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 12:05 PM
n/p p.o. seems like i have a pic for just about everything...Whistling [:-^]. glad they could help though. yes, photo's gloves or even latex will help when handling figures.
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 12:24 AM
again, thank you so much for all those great pics camo junkie! BTW, what book was that copied from?? Cuz I think that I might just have to invest in one of those.

Thanks, Jim
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Posted by camo junkie on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:35 AM

 model maniac 96 wrote:
again, thank you so much for all those great pics camo junkie! BTW, what book was that copied from?? Cuz I think that I might just have to invest in one of those.

Thanks, Jim

my figure painting bible jim...."the system" volume1: figure painting" by francois verlinden and bob letterman. dont know how good your local hobby shop is but if they are they shouldnt have a problem getting it for you. if not you could always try online bookstores. i would (if it didnt entail destroying the book) scan the whole thing for you. anyway, glad they could help you. they've done wonders for me. Smile [:)]

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:03 PM
hey camo junkie, I looked up the book, and it costs SEVENTY @$#&*%^ dollars!!!! so looks like a great book, but I can't shell out that much $$$ on a book right now, would want to though....

Thanks, Jim
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Posted by camo junkie on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:38 PM
jim, someone is ripping you off!!! i paid at best $15-$20 tops!!! granted that was a few years ago but not to where it should $70!!!! that's crazy!!! Censored [censored]. i'll take a look around and see what i can come up with. i mean there's only 47 pages in the thing and print as big as a house!!! hell you've seen pics of it! besides, i'm sorry but the book aint worth that much! i think its great and i consider it (my bible) but even i wouldnt shell out that kind of money for something like that!!!! again, i'll look around and see what i can come up with!! in the mean time just use what ya got and paint those figs!!!
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Posted by psstoff995 on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:42 PM
A few of the old Verlin books are OOP and if you can't find them direct from some place like Amazon or Overstock or the like, it's usually going to be a specialty thing.

-Chris

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Posted by camo junkie on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:56 PM

that's true p.o. but...i found it!!! half.com (they are out of stock) but list price is only $20 bucks! barns & nobels carries it too...(they too are out of stock). however, you can see they are out there and available just not right away....LOL. yeah, stay away from amazon...went there and 2 used copies are going for $71 bucks!!! that's recklessly insane!!! another company wanted $90 for it!!! SoapBox [soapbox]!!! anyway, i only know of those couple of places on the net...however, look around somemore and you'll find it. if not we'll see what we can do.....$90 bucks....man no wonder the economy is like it is!!! Sigh [sigh] Angry [:(!] Banged Head [banghead] Ashamed [*^_^*]

also remember these are online stores so if you have a b & n near you check them out ya never know!!

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Posted by camo junkie on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:13 PM

alright jim...i found it for you and the great thing is it's right here in michigan where im at! the michigan toy soldier company has it for $23! and yes....its new not used!!!! lousy rip off %^&$%^&$#$%%#$%'s!! if you do a search on "the michigan toy soldier company" you'll get their web site. so...there is one more option for you if your interested!! its a great book for figure painting no doubt about it (not $70-$90 great)...Sign - Dots [#dots]. anyway...let me know if ya get it will ya!!

here try this link: http://www.michtoy.com/MTSCnewSite/Books_folder/MiscModeling/misc_Books.html

you'll notice it like 2nd from the bottom!! let me know how that works 4 u!!!

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Posted by psstoff995 on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:33 PM
Good find!! Their online order form is a little “mail order” archaic. However- if you’re in Michigan! Walk in perhaps? Not a bad deal.

-Chris

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Posted by camo junkie on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:38 PM

 psstoff995 wrote:
Good find!! Their online order form is a little “mail order” archaic. However- if you’re in Michigan! Walk in perhaps? Not a bad deal.

less than a 1/2 hour drive from me...wouldnt be a problem (4 me) buddy!!! Thumbs Up [tup] in fact just down the street from wife's work!!

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:45 PM
 camo junkie wrote:

alright jim...i found it for you and the great thing is it's right here in michigan where im at! the michigan toy soldier company has it for $23! and yes....its new not used!!!! lousy rip off %^&$%^&$#$%%#$%'s!! if you do a search on "the michigan toy soldier company" you'll get their web site. so...there is one more option for you if your interested!! its a great book for figure painting no doubt about it (not $70-$90 great)...Sign - Dots [#dots]. anyway...let me know if ya get it will ya!!

here try this link: http://www.michtoy.com/MTSCnewSite/Books_folder/MiscModeling/misc_Books.html

you'll notice it like 2nd from the bottom!! let me know how that works 4 u!!!



Great, thanks man!! and I am 99% sure that I will purchase this book. as soon as I saw those pics you sent me I was hooked.

Thanks, Jim
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:55 PM
and on the topic of figures, does anybody here know how to scratch build a strap for a 1/35 scale rifle?? I am working on a figure and wanted to display his weapon slung over his shoulder, and the kit unfortunately does not include any straps for such weapons.

Thanks, Jim
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Posted by psstoff995 on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:57 PM

less than a 1/2 hour drive from me...wouldnt be a problem (4 me) buddy!!! Thumbs Up <img src=" border="0" /> in fact just down the street from wife's work!!

You been before? Go often? Or new model shop discovery!? Good deal for you- by the look of it they've got a lot of figure kits as well. Sounds like a good carpool trip, drop the wife off for work and swing on by Thumbs Up [tup]Thumbs Up [tup]

-Chris

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Posted by psstoff995 on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:01 PM

 model maniac 96 wrote:
and on the topic of figures, does anybody here know how to scratch build a strap for a 1/35 scale rifle?? I am working on a figure and wanted to display his weapon slung over his shoulder, and the kit unfortunately does not include any straps for such weapons.

Thanks, Jim

Hey! Just did that myself- it was 1/16, but same concept. Use masking tape. Take two strips, stick them sticky side together and then use your trusty ol Xacto #11 blade to cut them to the right width. They take paint well, and if you use a little bit of super glue- will stick great. I’d glue the rifle to some point on the body, then stretch the tape to fit as per that hang you want. You can check out my MARPAT thread, I just got finished adding my slings on. (If you want leather slings, you might want to try lead foil or something a little thicker/more details can be added for WWII clasps and rivets).

-Chris

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Posted by camo junkie on Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:37 PM
yeah jim, was just gonna say p.o. just did one. just so you know besides using tape, you can use foil or even say a 3 x 5 card cut to size and painted for making straps. i use all the above! i personally dont care if they have the "metal things"/sling ties/clasps attached to them or not...but that's just me. at 1/35 scale that gets to be way too small for me to deal with. lol. but p.o. is leading you in the right direction!! so good luck with that! Thumbs Up [tup]
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Posted by psstoff995 on Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:30 PM

Here's the link! Smile [:)]

I agree about the clasps, I tried to stick something on my 1/16 scale (green) sling. Not what I was going for but I guess it works. In 1/35 it's not really worth the headache.

-Chris

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Friday, March 27, 2009 5:19 PM
great guys, thanks or all your help! sorry I haven't replied sooner, I have been VERY busy!!!

once again, thanks, Jim
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Posted by camo junkie on Friday, March 27, 2009 6:23 PM
no written law saying you HAVE to reply. but no big deal either. been busy painting????
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Saturday, March 28, 2009 12:11 AM
 camo junkie wrote:
no written law saying you HAVE to reply. but no big deal either. been busy painting????



I wish...........


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Posted by camo junkie on Saturday, March 28, 2009 7:14 AM
understandable. sometimes we have to put modeling on the shelf for awhile (yes, pun intentional...lol). so no big deal. Thumbs Up [tup]
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:22 PM

thanks camo junkie!, BTW, do you think a complete nubie, (like me) would be able to remove resin figures from their castings without destroying them??Confused [%-)] cuz I was thinking of getting some nice figures from warriors, but no point if I can not get them out....Dunce [D)]

 

     Thanks a bunch!, JimPropeller [8-]

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Posted by camo junkie on Monday, March 30, 2009 7:08 AM

dont let resin intimidate you. its not as bad as you think it is. do i think you could do it...absolutely! its such a piece of cake to do that your gonna look at yourself afterwards and wonder y you didnt do it sooner!! and no offense, but if you CANT do it...you might as well hang it up and end it all because its so easy anyone can do it i assure you. there's no way you can "destroy" them unless you physically saw through them. you can live in fear and be affraid of life around you or you can live without fear and live the life around you. make sense? so good luck and dont be affraid...attack it like you would anything else...its only then that your results pay off!! Dinner [dinner]

simply put jim, be careful, but dont be affraid. yes, you can do it...its really really simple. you have 2 be a little more careful with smaller parts because they can be brittle ie* weapons etc. but if you can cut sprues on plastic figures you can cut sprues on resin figures!!! just that you need to use a saw rather than "breaking them" or using "nippers" to cut them. i dont have time right now but i'll post the basics of it from that book to show you later today! Laugh [(-D]

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Posted by camo junkie on Monday, March 30, 2009 8:33 AM

here jim...here's a couple more pages from my bible!!! its so simple even a caveman could do it... Laugh [(-D]

it mentions using scotchbrite to "clean it up"...that's up to the person doing it in my opinion. i never use it...just my files and have 0 problems!! i also NEVER use nippers on resin...you have no control and can damage the part way too easily. the few minutes it may take to saw is worth not screwing up what your doing. get yourself an exacto-saw and cut down to where you feel comfortable then use an exacto-blade to shave small pieces then file/sand the remainder. use scotchbrite if ya feel that's for ya.

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Posted by psstoff995 on Monday, March 30, 2009 1:17 PM
 camo junkie wrote:

and no offense, but if you CANT do it...you might as well hang it up and end it all because its so easy anyone can do it i assure you.

eeeeeek!!! Ahh!! Sad [:(]Black Eye [B)]Dead [xx(] ....Angel [angel]

lol, but yeah, it's not that hard. I recommend (if you plan on doing a lot of 1/35 or especially if you start doing 1/16 scale resin figures) investing in a dremel tool with a fine grit sanding attachment. It really takes a lot of the work out of removing the large chunks of resin. Not as much fine control as a saw in the upper speeds, but if you start slow and get a hang of it, you can end up working the parts with the speed pretty high to quickly blow through the excess resin. You can always stop before you get too close, then switch over to a grit sandpaper of your choice for the detail work. If you do chose to sand over saw- be aware, you’ll be throwing a ton of sawdust size resin pieces and a fine dust will cover everything- so only go at it if it’s a nice day outside or if you got a nice shop vac- and make sure no models are laying around! Tongue [:P]

Other than that, the only difference between resin and plastic is the need for super glue, and the fact that it’s almost always required that you prime the piece well before painting. The same rules for filling gaps (however there’re usually no “seems” that need trimming) applies.

PS! Good pictures as usual camo!

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Posted by camo junkie on Monday, March 30, 2009 2:23 PM
 psstoff995 wrote:
 camo junkie wrote:

and no offense, but if you CANT do it...you might as well hang it up and end it all because its so easy anyone can do it i assure you.

eeeeeek!!! Ahh!! Sad [:(]Black Eye [B)]Dead [xx(] ....Angel [angel]

lol, but yeah, it's not that hard. I recommend (if you plan on doing a lot of 1/35 or especially if you start doing 1/16 scale resin figures) investing in a dremel tool with a fine grit sanding attachment. It really takes a lot of the work out of removing the large chunks of resin. Not as much fine control as a saw in the upper speeds, but if you start slow and get a hang of it, you can end up working the parts with the speed pretty high to quickly blow through the excess resin. You can always stop before you get too close, then switch over to a grit sandpaper of your choice for the detail work. If you do chose to sand over saw- be aware, you’ll be throwing a ton of sawdust size resin pieces and a fine dust will cover everything- so only go at it if it’s a nice day outside or if you got a nice shop vac- and make sure no models are laying around! Tongue [:P]

Other than that, the only difference between resin and plastic is the need for super glue, and the fact that it’s almost always required that you prime the piece well before painting. The same rules for filling gaps (however there’re usually no “seems” that need trimming) applies.

PS! Good pictures as usual camo!

i told you i have a pic for almost everything!!! Whistling [:-^]

and jim, u can use a dremel if that's what u like too...just way too messy like p.o. says...y i dont use it!!

btw p.o., that quote you did of me...lol....well...its true isnt it...might as well hang up the phone....LOL.

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Posted by psstoff995 on Monday, March 30, 2009 5:21 PM
Yeah I s’pose you're right, resin does become a huge part of the hobby when you start going into real specific figures and aftermarket kits.

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Posted by camo junkie on Monday, March 30, 2009 7:18 PM
no, i just meant it was funny!!! LOL.
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Posted by psstoff995 on Monday, March 30, 2009 10:42 PM
hahahaha oh- yeah it was Laugh [(-D]

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Posted by JWalker on Sunday, April 5, 2009 12:58 AM
A good tip I picked up in Art school...when painting eyes or teeth. The whites of the eyes should be only as white as the lightest highlight of the flesh. So pretty much never use plain white for the whites of eyes or teeth.
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Sunday, April 5, 2009 11:33 AM
 JWalker wrote:
A good tip I picked up in Art school...when painting eyes or teeth. The whites of the eyes should be only as white as the lightest highlight of the flesh. So pretty much never use plain white for the whites of eyes or teeth.


Thanks, JWalker!!
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Sunday, April 5, 2009 11:39 AM
OK now, new question, I was wondering, since you guys have been such a great help to me with painting white mens faces, how would you go about painting the face on an African-American soldier??

any help would be great, thanks, Jim
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Posted by JWalker on Sunday, April 5, 2009 2:32 PM
Testors has different flesh tones in their acryl lineup. Including a dark brown that could work well for dark complexion. But if you have to mix your own Id start with a burnt umber base and mix in a little sienna. For highlighting Id stay away from adding just white to the base color but instead use a bit of yellow, tan or even regular flesh color to lighten up the brown.

Another good method(also learned in Art school) for testing out different color combos is to make a 10x10 grid of squares. Along the vertical make a list of colors 1 through 10 and the same along the horizontal.
Now fill in each square by mixing the corresponding colors that match that grid and when your done you have 100 color combinations and a good reference for the future
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Thursday, April 9, 2009 11:31 AM
thanks, JWalker
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Posted by modelchasm on Friday, April 10, 2009 11:31 AM

96-

I hope that you're writing this stuff down .... this is all good information that you really won't find in books. Like camo said before, some people aren't all that great about sharing information. I've found this to be mostly true b/c people tend to develop thier own tricks/ ways and don't really want to spill thier secrets. Some techniques might have taken years to perfect!

So that's why I said I hope you're writing this stuff down. If there's one thing that I've found in modeling, its this ...

You can learn different techniques from lots of people. You can even do something EXACTLY the same way as someone else .... but its going to come out different for YOU. Modeling isn't about following instructions and color guides. Its about ingenuity .... in all aspects.

You started all right by buying some figures to play with and test out techinques with. Just dive into it .... I promise you'll be suprised at how fast you'll get better.

Keep listening to these guys .... they learned from the best! HAHAHAHA!!!!

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:55 PM
 modelchasm wrote:

96-

I hope that you're writing this stuff down .... this is all good information that you really won't find in books. Like camo said before, some people aren't all that great about sharing information. I've found this to be mostly true b/c people tend to develop thier own tricks/ ways and don't really want to spill thier secrets. Some techniques might have taken years to perfect!

So that's why I said I hope you're writing this stuff down. If there's one thing that I've found in modeling, its this ...

You can learn different techniques from lots of people. You can even do something EXACTLY the same way as someone else .... but its going to come out different for YOU. Modeling isn't about following instructions and color guides. Its about ingenuity .... in all aspects.

You started all right by buying some figures to play with and test out techinques with. Just dive into it .... I promise you'll be suprised at how fast you'll get better.

Keep listening to these guys .... they learned from the best! HAHAHAHA!!!!



Oh yeah, I am definitely taking notes.
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Posted by camo junkie on Friday, April 17, 2009 7:39 AM
i wanted to tell you '96 that for your first figures they turned out ok. do you know how to put a darker "shadow" color in the folds of their uniforms? for instance, your guys in gray, add some black to the gray paint and then carefully paint that color just into the folds of the uniform to give it shadows...i dont want u ruining these guys u already have but if ya have a guy to practice on give it a shot. if your not sure what im talking about let me know i will see if i can find some sort of pic and description to help ya out. oh, go back in these post and look at the german pics i put up for you...specifically the german "zeltbahn" uniform. it shows him putting a darker color in the "folds" to achieve his shadows.
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Posted by Cadet Chuck on Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:31 AM

 

Admittedly, I have a lot of difficulty doing flesh tone shading on figures.  I purchased a set of six flesh tones in acrylic from Andrea and I suppose with lots of practice, they would work well, but I didn't have much luck with it.  I found that spraying a medium flesh base coat with an airbrush and then very sparingly adding lighter and darker tones of the same color for the shadows works well.  Also, I have actually used real ladies' makeup powders for the shadings, instead of paint.  This worked out well for me- you can also use powdered pastels brushed on and worked in with your finger, very lightly.  Be careful not to overdo it- natural lighting will enhance your work with real shadows, which is why photos sometimes look better than the actual model.

Here's my best work to date- a resin Wonder Woman, by sculptor Vance Rudzinskas.

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 9:59 AM

Thanks Cadet Chuck! nice figureWink [;)]

And now I got another question for you guys, what is the best stuff to use for dry fitting figures together? I tried modeling clay, but it just got everywere and then I had to spend forever getting it offBanged Head [banghead]

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Posted by modelchasm on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 10:02 AM
use just a SMALL drop of CA glue. Holds things together, and easy to snap apart. Once you get ready to glue it for real, use the pin and glue technique.

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Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 10:33 AM
i use either a small drop of ca glue as model stated or i use ambroid proweld...but again such a small amount i can "break" the limbs/head/etc. off when i get the desired results!
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Posted by Huxy on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 10:38 AM

When I dry-fit, I use nothing. Just placing them quickly togheter to see fit...

 

When I test-fit them, I use a small, tiny drop of glue. Mainly CA glue. Wink [;)]

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:44 PM
Thank you Modelchasm and camo junkie! I will try that, But modelchasm, what is the pin and glue method?

And Huxy, I do suppose I mean TEST, fitting then ha ha ha ha.....

Thanks, Jim
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:51 PM
Oh yeah, and another quick question, what color do you use to paint the whites of the eyes on 1/35 scale figures?? I tried plain old white, but then the eyes of the figure just seemed to POP, not a very good look.

Thanks in advance, Jim
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Posted by psstoff995 on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 5:02 PM
1/35- you reall don't paint the whites of the eyes, just add in a dot or slit of a dark brown or black ish, even on 120mm, or 1/16 scale, paint them the base coat that you used for the flesh, that's how I've learned it

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Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 6:18 PM
vallejo has an "offwhite" that i used to use that looked convincing. u may want to try that since u use the acrylics! rather than "paint" the whites with a brush...i used to dip the point of my blade from my exacto knife into the paint then gently "scrape" it in the eye socket area. then do the exact same thing with black paint...actually...reverse that...did the black first then "scraped" the white in two spots on each side of the pupil to make the pupil (make sense)?!?! i still use this method for my figs but i use oils instead (my prefered method). its much easier to use oils on the eyes this way because you can control every aspect of the application!! good luck bud! Thumbs Up [tup]
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 6:28 PM
Thanks a bunch camo junkie! I think I will start using oils for the eyes.

Again, Thanks a bunch, Jim
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Posted by modelchasm on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 7:20 PM

96,

Sorry for the wait ... The "pin method" takes small pieces of pieces of paperclips, straight pins, wire ... whatever you want to use. Drill a small hole, in the case of attaching an arm, in the torso where the arm connects. Then, take a fine point sharpie, and draw a cross/ plus sign where the arm will connect with the hole being where the cross crosses itself. Then take the arm and place it on the torso in the position that you want it. Then take the sharpie again and make small dots on the arm where you see the lines coming on that you drew on the torso. Take the arm off and then connect the dots, making another cross on the arm this time. Drill the hole in the arm where the cross crosses itself. Now take your pin, I usually cut it after I glue it to one side ... after it dries of course. Glue in one side, then mount the arm with a little glue and BAM! ... your done.

Sounds like a long process, but it is really pretty quick and will definately strengthen you figure. I do this on ALL connections for my figures. Feet, legs, torso, arms, head ... everything.

Hope this helps.

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Posted by camo junkie on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 8:41 PM

 model maniac 96 wrote:
Thanks a bunch camo junkie! I think I will start using oils for the eyes.

Again, Thanks a bunch, Jim

again jim u can use acrylic paint and pretty much achieve the same results if your careful. what i love about oils is if you make a mistake they can easily be removed and redone because they dont dry right away. basically only have to "wipe" them away and redo it. the acrylics u can do the same thing only u need water to "remove" any mistake and u might if u'r not careful remove your flesh tones from the face/eyes! just a thought anyway jim.

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Posted by Phil_H on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 8:44 PM

 camo junkie wrote:
vallejo has an "offwhite" that i used to use that looked convincing. u may want to try that since u use the acrylics! rather than "paint" the whites with a brush...

Even better than "off-white", try 70837 "Pale Sand". It's light enough to show a difference, but not so contrasty as to give your figures "panda eyes".

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Posted by camo junkie on Wednesday, May 6, 2009 11:41 AM

never thought of that but i see your point phil...thanks!

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Wednesday, May 6, 2009 10:17 PM
Thanks Guys!
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Posted by camo junkie on Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:19 AM
anytime mm! Propeller [8-]
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Thursday, May 7, 2009 11:56 AM
Thanks again for all your help guys, you have answered all of my questions and it is appreciated.

Thanks, Jim
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Posted by model maniac 96 on Thursday, May 7, 2009 11:48 PM
Hi guys, new question, what is the best method for making bullet holes in people/ blood and gore? I have some dead figures, and wanted to know how best to make them.

Thanks in advance, Jim
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Posted by camo junkie on Friday, May 8, 2009 6:40 AM
not sure on that one mm. only ever did one blood scene and it wasnt very bloody (as it should be...unless your making zombies or something).
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Posted by psstoff995 on Friday, May 8, 2009 10:24 AM

Como got it right- it shouldn't be very bloody. The key is you cannot over do it. Hollywood likes you to think blood is bright red and when you get shot it squirts everywhere. The heart's a strong muscle, but only in a Quiten Tarintino movie is it going to get all over the place. Think of a bullet wound as what it really is, a puncture wound. Just instead of a knife or any other sharp object, it’s a projectile moving incredibly fast. There might be some blood from the initial wound, but unless someone has started doing CPR and really pumping the blood up and out of the holes, if the shots killed the individual, it’s really just going to be oozing out as it drains to the lowest point in the body.

If you have a solider laying dead on the ground, the best way to portray bullet wound blood in my opinion is to have maybe a little blood coming out of the mouth and pooling around the neck (maybe he was hit in a lung and he coughed it up before he died?) And then hint at a larger pool underneath the body. For bullet holes in clothing/people- unless your talking about close range shotgun/zombie type stuff, think back again to the puncture wound, it’s such a small piece of metal, when it hits the body, the hole might only be the size of a dime, in 1/35 scale clothing, with folds- it could easily get covered up. I wouldn’t add the hole at all- maybe just a palm sized bloody stain (1/35 palm sized that is). Now if he was shot in his front and now he’s laying on his front- you’d have an exit wound to worry about. That’s always larger (if it exited at all) because the speed of the bullet slowing down transfers from the bullet into the human tissue- think science class, energy cannot be created or destroyed. For as fast as that bullet was going, if it’s going to be going much slower when it comes out, it’s because a lot of transferred energy just tore up the insides.

For modeling that, just get a small drill set, and after drilling the hole, get some putty/xacto knife and try to mold the torn up uniform so it doesn’t just look like a hole in a guys back. There’d be more blood due to a bigger hole, but remember, if the soldier’s dead, gravity is going to be working harder than the heart.

Bullets really kill two main ways, hit a vital organ (lungs/heart/liver/etc.), or blood loss (hit a major artery)- as far as instantly goes, there’s also infection (usually abdominal wounds don’t bleed much, but as soon as that gets hit you worry about bodily waist in the wrong place) etc.
Point is, think about where you’re dead solider was hit/where he’d be loosing blood from.

Now you also don’t want a big puddle on the ground, bloods thick and viscous, and it doesn’t run up hill too well. Think of your groundwork- and if it’s dirt, you might not see much blood beyond the silhouette of the fallen solider.

As far as the color goes, mix in some black/brown/purple- as long as it’s a dark color, with your normal red until it gets to be a murky red. Whatever you do, make sure it doesn’t look like ketchup. And due to the scale color effect, while you might have a great color blood to match your own 1:1 blood (I cut myself all the time in this hobby) it might still look too bright in 1:35.

I think the most important thing about doing dead soldiers (especially if you plan on posting it to a forum like this) is keeping it tasteful. And in my opinion, the only real way you can tastefully depict a dead solider is to do it up as accurately as possible. This is why I gave you such a long, possibly overly graphic response and I apologize for that.

Now this is just a personal thing, everyone has their own opinions, but a big thing to remember, is likely you are depicting a war that actually happened. Some modelers don’t like dead bodies on dioramas, some don’t like Nazi flags on dioramas, I disagree, I feel like war is war and that’s what you get. Modeling a tank accurately is one thing, but if you don’t depict the rest accurately- what’s the point? This being said, you must remember- the 1/35 soldiers you represent, represent (this is kind of a stretch I know, but I like to think so) a casualty number from the conflict you’re trying to represent. So while you might not be trying to replicate a specific person that died, the death alone represents the death from that conflict. So if you have someone whose grandfather passed during D-Day and you have a bunch of US GIs sprawled across the beach all torn up with blood everywhere, that could easily be upsetting. Now if you have a bunch of GIs charging up the beach, with one GI receiving treatment for a leg wound behind an obstacle and a blood-tinged tide is coming up the beach. While not as gory as a video game, I feel that’s more powerful, while also being accurate. It’s tasteful, and as long as the water isn’t BLOOD RED, just the surf has a reddish look- it might not be something a viewer catches until a second look, being that much more powerful.

Sorry I got very long winded on that one. I know some people will tell you don’t do blood, don’t do death, if you do death, don’t do any blood, etc. But I think if you really want to accurately do death (and in my opinion that’s the only way), there some things you have to know. I’m sure I could have said it with less words though... anyway I hope most of them made sense. It’s really just paint work though as far as how you depict it. The key is getting the right color, the right amount, and making sure your dead solider looks natural with the groundwork he’s laying on, not like a standing figure got knocked over by a little brother/pet dog.

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Posted by camo junkie on Friday, May 8, 2009 10:40 AM
long winded??? Confused [%-)]....lol. Laugh [(-D]
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Posted by modelchasm on Friday, May 8, 2009 11:29 AM

He must be done with finals and ready to vent... HAHAH

I agree with psst. I think that if you're going to model the reality of war, just be thoughtful about it and realize that hollywood is not reality. If you're up to it, I would suggest that you look at actual pictures of people who were shot. There's definately a look to "death" that greatly differs from that of someone sleeping.

Done right, you shouldn't have to show a lot of blood and guts.

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Posted by psstoff995 on Friday, May 8, 2009 11:43 AM
lol nah, just a little bit camo Dead [xx(] haha sorry. How'd you know model?!  Blush [:I] hahaha yeah... sorry model maniac, didn't mean to vent. It's one of those subjects I guess I have a big opinion on. Whistling [:-^]

But as model suggested, if you're up to it, they're pictures out there. People sleeping are comfortable, situated- people that fall over and don't get up just lay there all awkward and their equipment/helmet will be cockeyed and tilted/jostled, maybe laying on top of a weapon, maybe still holding one in a hand- maybe it was acquired by another solider low on ammo or with a jammed weapon.

Just be creative with it, post pictures, ask for tips and tricks along the way.

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Posted by camo junkie on Friday, May 8, 2009 1:38 PM
 modelchasm wrote:

He must be done with finals and ready to vent... HAHAH 

yeah that's what i thought too. Propeller [8-]

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Posted by psstoff995 on Friday, May 8, 2009 2:15 PM
hahaha glad I'm so easy to read Tongue [:P]

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Friday, May 8, 2009 8:46 PM
WOW!!!!!! Thank you so much you guys!!!! This is amazing! Thank you so much for all your help you guys!
This is great!

Thanks a bunch!, Jim

P.S. psstoff, Nice vent. ha ha ha ha!!
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Posted by psstoff995 on Friday, May 8, 2009 9:19 PM
Blush [:I]Taped Shut [XX] haha thanks model maniac- somewhere in that long essay is a point and a few tips I swear!!Whistling [:-^]

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Posted by camo junkie on Saturday, May 9, 2009 8:35 AM

 psstoff995 wrote:
Blush [:I]Taped Shut [XX] haha thanks model maniac- somewhere in that long essay is a point and a few tips I swear!!Whistling [:-^]

not to mention the answers you were looking 4 jim!! Laugh [(-D] again jim, dont worry about thanking us...its all part of the forums. perhaps by doing this and answering your ?'s we can in tern answer someone else with the same question.

as for you p.o....perhaps u should take a writting class or something to vent all those words, sentences, paragraphs, and pages from your fingertips!! Laugh [(-D]

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Posted by psstoff995 on Saturday, May 9, 2009 9:56 AM
haha then instead of you guys messing with me- it'd be the teacher, and he/she’d complain about how long it was... I'd end up with a D... it'd be terrible Laugh [(-D]

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Posted by camo junkie on Saturday, May 9, 2009 11:11 AM
we dont mess with you p.o....we only give you what your looking for! Wink [;)]
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Posted by psstoff995 on Saturday, May 9, 2009 11:21 AM
haha oh... what exactly am I looking for? Laugh [(-D]

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Saturday, May 9, 2009 7:30 PM

 psstoff995 wrote:
haha oh... what exactly am I looking for? Laugh [(-D]

 

Laugh [(-D]Laugh [(-D]Laugh [(-D]

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Posted by model maniac 96 on Monday, May 11, 2009 11:30 AM

Ok guys next question for you, I got some Gen2 figures from Dragon and found a lot detail and also some PE parts, so how hard are PE gun slings to work with?? is it worth the work, or should I just make my own?

 

Thanks a bunch you guys, you have been a bunch of help already!, Jim

"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Monday, May 11, 2009 12:20 PM
dont know about u but i hate small parts! Banged Head [banghead] so to answer your question...its only as hard as u make it!! Wink [;)]
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Colorado
Posted by psstoff995 on Monday, May 11, 2009 7:46 PM
Hmm.. I'd think PE slings wouldn't really "hang" all that right. Confused [%-)] Can always try masking tape slings first, then if those don't work out, just go with the PE.

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 7:46 PM
Thanks a bunch you guys! you have been a lot of help!!!


Jim
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: East TX
Posted by modelchasm on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 9:05 PM

96,

I agree with psst .... nothing against PE part, heck, I use'm. But for things like slings, PE parts are hard to get JUUUUUUST right. Masking tape at least gives you a little "give" to play with. Sometimes PE can bend or dent at an akward angle.

However, I like using PE for armor stuff and simulating battle damaged stuff.

Just my two cents.

"If you're not scratching, you're not trying!"  -Scott

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:23 AM
Thanks a bunch you guys!!! I have learned so much from you already, but I do have one more question for you guys, do any of you great figure modelers out there know where I can get some Five minute epoxy???


Any help would be great, Jim
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:08 PM
is that glue apoxy or sculpting apoxy?? f its the glue...your local hobby shop should have it...if is the sculpting kind most hardware/plumbing supply places will have it!
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Monday, May 18, 2009 2:13 PM
Ok thanks, my Grandma broke a china plate, somehow it was all my fault.... and I was told to fix it....


Thanks, Jim
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Monday, May 18, 2009 5:23 PM
oh...well mm, sorry 2 hear that. these things happen. try some regular super glue for that. not sure how much it will help especially if its "chipped" as well as broke. good luck with the fix though! Thumbs Up [tup]
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Colorado
Posted by psstoff995 on Monday, May 18, 2009 7:16 PM
Yeah, use super glue for hold, then if you've lost the smaller chips, use the epoxy putty to fill the gaps, then sand smooth, and it's off to the spray booth, hope your freehand's good with the airbrush if it's one of those old Ming plates with the white and blue... Whistling [:-^]Laugh [(-D] jk

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: East TX
Posted by modelchasm on Monday, May 18, 2009 8:42 PM
Heck, after sanding it smooth ... just Future that b*tch to death!!! HAHA!

"If you're not scratching, you're not trying!"  -Scott

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Colorado
Posted by psstoff995 on Monday, May 18, 2009 9:05 PM
Laugh [(-D] yes

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:58 AM
Thanks guys, I didn't reply sooner because I was in Texas Weeeeeeeeeee!!, any way, I gots a question for you, do any of you have any experience with 1/72 scale figures? I was wondering because I have bought a 1/72 tank and wanted some figures to go with it, any help would be great!

Thanks a bunch, Jim
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Colorado
Posted by psstoff995 on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 8:58 PM
Not me- but at that scale, it's really just dabs of paint to get a sense of color, thats it, no real patterns or detail, just general color work for the most part I'd think- that's tiny!!

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Thursday, May 28, 2009 3:34 PM
i stay away from 1:72 mm. waaaaaayyyyy too small for my tastes! i think p.o. probably has the right idea though.
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Friday, May 29, 2009 11:41 AM
All right, thanks guys!
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
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