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well, here's a very stupid question....

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  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Thursday, May 7, 2009 11:56 AM
Thanks again for all your help guys, you have answered all of my questions and it is appreciated.

Thanks, Jim
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
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  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Thursday, May 7, 2009 11:48 PM
Hi guys, new question, what is the best method for making bullet holes in people/ blood and gore? I have some dead figures, and wanted to know how best to make them.

Thanks in advance, Jim
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
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  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Friday, May 8, 2009 6:40 AM
not sure on that one mm. only ever did one blood scene and it wasnt very bloody (as it should be...unless your making zombies or something).
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
  • Member since
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  • From: Colorado
Posted by psstoff995 on Friday, May 8, 2009 10:24 AM

Como got it right- it shouldn't be very bloody. The key is you cannot over do it. Hollywood likes you to think blood is bright red and when you get shot it squirts everywhere. The heart's a strong muscle, but only in a Quiten Tarintino movie is it going to get all over the place. Think of a bullet wound as what it really is, a puncture wound. Just instead of a knife or any other sharp object, it’s a projectile moving incredibly fast. There might be some blood from the initial wound, but unless someone has started doing CPR and really pumping the blood up and out of the holes, if the shots killed the individual, it’s really just going to be oozing out as it drains to the lowest point in the body.

If you have a solider laying dead on the ground, the best way to portray bullet wound blood in my opinion is to have maybe a little blood coming out of the mouth and pooling around the neck (maybe he was hit in a lung and he coughed it up before he died?) And then hint at a larger pool underneath the body. For bullet holes in clothing/people- unless your talking about close range shotgun/zombie type stuff, think back again to the puncture wound, it’s such a small piece of metal, when it hits the body, the hole might only be the size of a dime, in 1/35 scale clothing, with folds- it could easily get covered up. I wouldn’t add the hole at all- maybe just a palm sized bloody stain (1/35 palm sized that is). Now if he was shot in his front and now he’s laying on his front- you’d have an exit wound to worry about. That’s always larger (if it exited at all) because the speed of the bullet slowing down transfers from the bullet into the human tissue- think science class, energy cannot be created or destroyed. For as fast as that bullet was going, if it’s going to be going much slower when it comes out, it’s because a lot of transferred energy just tore up the insides.

For modeling that, just get a small drill set, and after drilling the hole, get some putty/xacto knife and try to mold the torn up uniform so it doesn’t just look like a hole in a guys back. There’d be more blood due to a bigger hole, but remember, if the soldier’s dead, gravity is going to be working harder than the heart.

Bullets really kill two main ways, hit a vital organ (lungs/heart/liver/etc.), or blood loss (hit a major artery)- as far as instantly goes, there’s also infection (usually abdominal wounds don’t bleed much, but as soon as that gets hit you worry about bodily waist in the wrong place) etc.
Point is, think about where you’re dead solider was hit/where he’d be loosing blood from.

Now you also don’t want a big puddle on the ground, bloods thick and viscous, and it doesn’t run up hill too well. Think of your groundwork- and if it’s dirt, you might not see much blood beyond the silhouette of the fallen solider.

As far as the color goes, mix in some black/brown/purple- as long as it’s a dark color, with your normal red until it gets to be a murky red. Whatever you do, make sure it doesn’t look like ketchup. And due to the scale color effect, while you might have a great color blood to match your own 1:1 blood (I cut myself all the time in this hobby) it might still look too bright in 1:35.

I think the most important thing about doing dead soldiers (especially if you plan on posting it to a forum like this) is keeping it tasteful. And in my opinion, the only real way you can tastefully depict a dead solider is to do it up as accurately as possible. This is why I gave you such a long, possibly overly graphic response and I apologize for that.

Now this is just a personal thing, everyone has their own opinions, but a big thing to remember, is likely you are depicting a war that actually happened. Some modelers don’t like dead bodies on dioramas, some don’t like Nazi flags on dioramas, I disagree, I feel like war is war and that’s what you get. Modeling a tank accurately is one thing, but if you don’t depict the rest accurately- what’s the point? This being said, you must remember- the 1/35 soldiers you represent, represent (this is kind of a stretch I know, but I like to think so) a casualty number from the conflict you’re trying to represent. So while you might not be trying to replicate a specific person that died, the death alone represents the death from that conflict. So if you have someone whose grandfather passed during D-Day and you have a bunch of US GIs sprawled across the beach all torn up with blood everywhere, that could easily be upsetting. Now if you have a bunch of GIs charging up the beach, with one GI receiving treatment for a leg wound behind an obstacle and a blood-tinged tide is coming up the beach. While not as gory as a video game, I feel that’s more powerful, while also being accurate. It’s tasteful, and as long as the water isn’t BLOOD RED, just the surf has a reddish look- it might not be something a viewer catches until a second look, being that much more powerful.

Sorry I got very long winded on that one. I know some people will tell you don’t do blood, don’t do death, if you do death, don’t do any blood, etc. But I think if you really want to accurately do death (and in my opinion that’s the only way), there some things you have to know. I’m sure I could have said it with less words though... anyway I hope most of them made sense. It’s really just paint work though as far as how you depict it. The key is getting the right color, the right amount, and making sure your dead solider looks natural with the groundwork he’s laying on, not like a standing figure got knocked over by a little brother/pet dog.

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Friday, May 8, 2009 10:40 AM
long winded??? Confused [%-)]....lol. Laugh [(-D]
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
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  • From: East TX
Posted by modelchasm on Friday, May 8, 2009 11:29 AM

He must be done with finals and ready to vent... HAHAH

I agree with psst. I think that if you're going to model the reality of war, just be thoughtful about it and realize that hollywood is not reality. If you're up to it, I would suggest that you look at actual pictures of people who were shot. There's definately a look to "death" that greatly differs from that of someone sleeping.

Done right, you shouldn't have to show a lot of blood and guts.

"If you're not scratching, you're not trying!"  -Scott

  • Member since
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  • From: Colorado
Posted by psstoff995 on Friday, May 8, 2009 11:43 AM
lol nah, just a little bit camo Dead [xx(] haha sorry. How'd you know model?!  Blush [:I] hahaha yeah... sorry model maniac, didn't mean to vent. It's one of those subjects I guess I have a big opinion on. Whistling [:-^]

But as model suggested, if you're up to it, they're pictures out there. People sleeping are comfortable, situated- people that fall over and don't get up just lay there all awkward and their equipment/helmet will be cockeyed and tilted/jostled, maybe laying on top of a weapon, maybe still holding one in a hand- maybe it was acquired by another solider low on ammo or with a jammed weapon.

Just be creative with it, post pictures, ask for tips and tricks along the way.

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Friday, May 8, 2009 1:38 PM
 modelchasm wrote:

He must be done with finals and ready to vent... HAHAH 

yeah that's what i thought too. Propeller [8-]

"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
  • Member since
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  • From: Colorado
Posted by psstoff995 on Friday, May 8, 2009 2:15 PM
hahaha glad I'm so easy to read Tongue [:P]

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Friday, May 8, 2009 8:46 PM
WOW!!!!!! Thank you so much you guys!!!! This is amazing! Thank you so much for all your help you guys!
This is great!

Thanks a bunch!, Jim

P.S. psstoff, Nice vent. ha ha ha ha!!
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
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  • From: Colorado
Posted by psstoff995 on Friday, May 8, 2009 9:19 PM
Blush [:I]Taped Shut [XX] haha thanks model maniac- somewhere in that long essay is a point and a few tips I swear!!Whistling [:-^]

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Saturday, May 9, 2009 8:35 AM

 psstoff995 wrote:
Blush [:I]Taped Shut [XX] haha thanks model maniac- somewhere in that long essay is a point and a few tips I swear!!Whistling [:-^]

not to mention the answers you were looking 4 jim!! Laugh [(-D] again jim, dont worry about thanking us...its all part of the forums. perhaps by doing this and answering your ?'s we can in tern answer someone else with the same question.

as for you p.o....perhaps u should take a writting class or something to vent all those words, sentences, paragraphs, and pages from your fingertips!! Laugh [(-D]

"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
  • Member since
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  • From: Colorado
Posted by psstoff995 on Saturday, May 9, 2009 9:56 AM
haha then instead of you guys messing with me- it'd be the teacher, and he/she’d complain about how long it was... I'd end up with a D... it'd be terrible Laugh [(-D]

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Saturday, May 9, 2009 11:11 AM
we dont mess with you p.o....we only give you what your looking for! Wink [;)]
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
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Posted by psstoff995 on Saturday, May 9, 2009 11:21 AM
haha oh... what exactly am I looking for? Laugh [(-D]

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Saturday, May 9, 2009 7:30 PM

 psstoff995 wrote:
haha oh... what exactly am I looking for? Laugh [(-D]

 

Laugh [(-D]Laugh [(-D]Laugh [(-D]

"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
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  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Monday, May 11, 2009 11:30 AM

Ok guys next question for you, I got some Gen2 figures from Dragon and found a lot detail and also some PE parts, so how hard are PE gun slings to work with?? is it worth the work, or should I just make my own?

 

Thanks a bunch you guys, you have been a bunch of help already!, Jim

"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Monday, May 11, 2009 12:20 PM
dont know about u but i hate small parts! Banged Head [banghead] so to answer your question...its only as hard as u make it!! Wink [;)]
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
  • Member since
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  • From: Colorado
Posted by psstoff995 on Monday, May 11, 2009 7:46 PM
Hmm.. I'd think PE slings wouldn't really "hang" all that right. Confused [%-)] Can always try masking tape slings first, then if those don't work out, just go with the PE.

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 7:46 PM
Thanks a bunch you guys! you have been a lot of help!!!


Jim
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: East TX
Posted by modelchasm on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 9:05 PM

96,

I agree with psst .... nothing against PE part, heck, I use'm. But for things like slings, PE parts are hard to get JUUUUUUST right. Masking tape at least gives you a little "give" to play with. Sometimes PE can bend or dent at an akward angle.

However, I like using PE for armor stuff and simulating battle damaged stuff.

Just my two cents.

"If you're not scratching, you're not trying!"  -Scott

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:23 AM
Thanks a bunch you guys!!! I have learned so much from you already, but I do have one more question for you guys, do any of you great figure modelers out there know where I can get some Five minute epoxy???


Any help would be great, Jim
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:08 PM
is that glue apoxy or sculpting apoxy?? f its the glue...your local hobby shop should have it...if is the sculpting kind most hardware/plumbing supply places will have it!
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Monday, May 18, 2009 2:13 PM
Ok thanks, my Grandma broke a china plate, somehow it was all my fault.... and I was told to fix it....


Thanks, Jim
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Monday, May 18, 2009 5:23 PM
oh...well mm, sorry 2 hear that. these things happen. try some regular super glue for that. not sure how much it will help especially if its "chipped" as well as broke. good luck with the fix though! Thumbs Up [tup]
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
  • Member since
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  • From: Colorado
Posted by psstoff995 on Monday, May 18, 2009 7:16 PM
Yeah, use super glue for hold, then if you've lost the smaller chips, use the epoxy putty to fill the gaps, then sand smooth, and it's off to the spray booth, hope your freehand's good with the airbrush if it's one of those old Ming plates with the white and blue... Whistling [:-^]Laugh [(-D] jk

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: East TX
Posted by modelchasm on Monday, May 18, 2009 8:42 PM
Heck, after sanding it smooth ... just Future that b*tch to death!!! HAHA!

"If you're not scratching, you're not trying!"  -Scott

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Colorado
Posted by psstoff995 on Monday, May 18, 2009 9:05 PM
Laugh [(-D] yes

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:58 AM
Thanks guys, I didn't reply sooner because I was in Texas Weeeeeeeeeee!!, any way, I gots a question for you, do any of you have any experience with 1/72 scale figures? I was wondering because I have bought a 1/72 tank and wanted some figures to go with it, any help would be great!

Thanks a bunch, Jim
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Colorado
Posted by psstoff995 on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 8:58 PM
Not me- but at that scale, it's really just dabs of paint to get a sense of color, thats it, no real patterns or detail, just general color work for the most part I'd think- that's tiny!!

-Chris

US Army Infantryman

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