Some say he died in the bunker, but...

dahut wrote:

I thought everyones opinion was welcome here, including mine. Just where do you come off? But, I'll explain for you. It's not the conversation I dislike, my boisterous friend. Read my signature line if that worries you. Rather, I rebel against misplaced iconism. My reference to aliens was what is known as a 'simile', which is where two unlike things are compared. It wasn't something to be taken literally. Allow me to reiterate my stance. For years, the debate over Hitler's demise has raged and why? Dead is dead. What would it matter to have his bones, pulling them out of their velvet bag every so often to oooh and ahhh over them? There is a certain macabre interest in such things, Ill give you that. If it remains that way, fine. But it's just like the reliquaries of old. In these, a piece of cloth or fragment of bone is held forth as coming from some certain saint or religious figure. Did it, really? I've seen and touched numerous reliquaries in Europe and the Middle East and I can't tell you what's in there. Who really knows? The faithful go further, though, and imbue these trinkets with "magical" powers to heal and cure, to miraculously save us from harm. Which, of course, they do not. Yet they empower these things with, and even build a dogmatic belief in, the saving powers of those fragments from the past. That's the danger of iconism - idolatry. If you speak with Hitlers own countrymen, the Germans, you'll find that they regret being lured by him. They had a moment of weakness then, as do we all, and would ask that their blindness and failing be allowed to pass. They cannot, must not, forget his legacy - they are cursed with it. But as for the man himself and his remains, well... he was the harbinger of hatred and doom, best faded into the past. I personally think they are right; my opinion if you will. And we all know what they say about opinions, right? As for your response. I appreciate your emotion and just like all opinions, you are entitled to yours. But, be more mindful of your comments in the future. You can disagree without being disagreeable.

Well said, dahut, particularly the part about reliquarties and the faithfuls' tendency to imbue them with special powers.  However, from a scientific perspective I would argue there is value in being able to say, "Yes, this is a piece of Hitler's skull".  I say that based on the debate that did rage about what became of him, and the tendency for some wack-a-doos to claim that, in the absence of any evidence, der Furher is still alive and they must prepare for his return.  On the flip side are the victims and the families of victims who must be left to wonder, "Could he still be alive, could he come back" - sort of like Voldermort in Harry Potter.  So having clear, definitive, scientific proof that he is dead - as a biological anthropologist and osteologist, I can tell you it is pretty tough to live without your jaw and/or a big chunk of your skull - is important.  But, yes, the idea of putting his remains on display or pulling them out now and again so people can ooh and aah over them is offensive.  They should be kept, as they are, safely under lock and key and out of the public eye.

Well said, dahut--and not necessarily "taking sides" here--I think forrest gump's post was perhaps a bit motivated by not knowing where you were coming from in the first post, but you certainly clarified that now.

I went to a big "Schloss" in the Czech Republic where they had a built-in chapel, and there was this reliquary of alleged "Saints bones"--there must have been literally, maybe 150 small piece of bones in this big, compartmentalized, glass=covered curio cabinet...all I could think was "Man, a lot of chickens died to fool a lot of people!" !

I thought everyones opinion was welcome here, including mine. Just where do you come off? But, I'll explain for you.

It's not the conversation I dislike, my boisterous friend. Read my signature line if that worries you. Rather, I rebel against misplaced iconism. My reference to aliens was what is known as a 'simile', which is where two unlike things are compared. It wasn't something to be taken literally.

Allow me to reiterate my stance. For years, the debate over Hitler's demise has raged and why? Dead is dead. What would it matter to have his bones, pulling them out of their velvet bag every so often to oooh and ahhh over them? There is a certain macabre interest in such things, Ill give you that. If it remains that way, fine.

But it's just like the reliquaries of old. In these, a piece of cloth or fragment of bone is held forth as coming from some certain saint or religious figure. Did it, really? I've seen and touched numerous reliquaries in Europe and the Middle East and I can't tell you what's in there. Who really knows? The faithful go further, though, and imbue these trinkets with "magical" powers to heal and cure, to miraculously save us from harm. Which, of course, they do not. Yet they empower these things with, and even build a dogmatic belief in, the saving powers of those fragments from the past. That's the danger of iconism - idolatry.

If you speak with Hitlers own countrymen, the Germans, you'll find that they regret being lured by him. They had a moment of weakness then, as do we all, and would ask that their blindness and failing be allowed to pass. They cannot, must not, forget his legacy - they are cursed with it. But as for the man himself and his remains, well... he was the harbinger of hatred and doom, best faded into the past. I personally think they are right; my opinion if you will. And we all know what they say about opinions, right?

As for your response. I appreciate your emotion and just like all opinions, you are entitled to yours. But, be more mindful of your comments in the future. You can disagree without being disagreeable.

dahut wrote:

This is the whole "ARE there aliens, or not?" debate. What difference does it make? Was Hitler here or there? Did he live or die? Who has his bones? Who cares? It's iconism of the wrong kind, IMHO. He had his shot and blew it, for good reason. Let him rest wherever he is, in peace or not, as the case may be. Let us remember his legacy, instead. Me, I like the little figure of him battling it out with the Russians. Its so contrary to what we did know of him at the end that it becomes funny... cute even.

 If this was about aliens, we would be talking about ufos or usos, not about what we know about hitler. Also if you don't like the conversation, don't read it then!

My opinion is that Hitler killed himself and is in Hell. But anyways nice figure i like it. I agree with the panzerfaust suggestion to.

This is the whole "ARE there aliens, or not?" debate. What difference does it make? Was Hitler here or there? Did he live or die? Who has his bones?

Who cares? It's iconism of the wrong kind, IMHO. He had his shot and blew it, for good reason. Let him rest wherever he is, in peace or not, as the case may be. Let us remember his legacy, instead.

Me, I like the little figure of him battling it out with the Russians. Its so contrary to what we did know of him at the end that it becomes funny... cute even. 

agentg wrote:

Yeah, that's it. Did "they" ever prove scientifically it really was Hitler? Sorry, 28 years as a cop has me thinking skeptically about issues such as this.

In 2000-? 04-05? a scientist compared DNA extracted from one of the tooth cores to that of Hitller's sister. It was a match. 

agentg wrote:

Archangel Shooter wrote: Better yet...put him behind a counter in a McDonalds dio. "Vill du like to SUPER size your fries Mein Herr??" Scott No, no, You VILL supersize de order, ya? I think it's been proven (maybe) the Russians burned the bodies of Adolf and his missus. I'm thinking the skulls recently turned up in a museum somewhere. Someone know/remember more?

Hitler's corpse--the remains of it--were buried in Magdeburg for a long time, under a garage's parking lot. In the late 80's they were secretly dug up by the NVKP and re-burned. The ashes were flushed into the city's sewer system. 

Better yet...put him behind a counter in a McDonalds dio. "Vill du like to SUPER size your fries Mein Herr??"

Scott

I love it! I've done a couple Hitler figures, but I gotta say this one's pretty unique! Great job!

You know, the ironic thing about this is that most Berliners thought that this is the way that the Fuhrer actually checked out. Right up until his suicide, Goebbel's propaganda office churned out "inspirational" messages exhorting the Volksturm and citizens to remain stoic, and to continue fighting, painting the picture always that "our beloved Fuhrer continues to battle the Bolshevik hordes in the streets of Berlin". 

I'll bet you coulda sold enough copies of this in 1946 to retire on! LOL!

Nicely done.  Thanks for sharing.

Regards,  Rick

HA HA HA THAT A GOOD ONE

GOOD THING YOU MENTIONED THE alzheimers, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT HITLER WOULD

USE AN STG-44 ASSUALT RIFLE, ESPECIALLY IF HE DIDN'T LIKE THAT CONCEPT OF A WEAPON

(HITLER DIDN'T EVEN ORDER THET WEAPON INTO PRODUCTION, SADLY)

ALSO what happened to his body afterwards if he fought in the streets of Berlin?

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

Thats one of those " Say hello to my lil friend"

I enjoy the humour in your piece! Very original. He would've ound it a wee bit difficult facing up to the might of the Russian Army with a machine gun and a stick grenade! The alzheimers would have made it difficult to aim!

Nice bit of humour.

Cheers, Arthur