Sci-Fi suggestions for major firms (plus a rant)

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Sci-Fi suggestions for major firms (plus a rant)

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, October 11, 2003 10:58 PM

In many "most wanted" polls for kits, Sci-Fi subjects are poorly represented. Judging by the contributors to this forum, there are a significant number of Sci-Fi modelers out there. So, why are Sci-Fi kits so scarce? Question [?]

Some model companies are headed in the right direction but the snail's pace of their progress is frustrating. Disapprove [V]

Here are a few examples of what I mean:

Bandai: Currently releasing some cool kits of Star Trek ships. My complaints: I have little interest in pre-painted kits. They seem too much like toys. Bandai's prices are pretty high for me.

FineMolds: Currently releasing nice Star Wars kits
My complaints: The kits are EXTREMELY difficult to get for a fair price. Plus, most of their topics have been done before, even if badly, by ERTL.

Polar Lights: Currently offering ST: TOS Enterprise kits and have plans for the D-7, NX-01 and the Scorpion attack craft from ST: Nemesis.
My complaints: Again, I don't much care for the toylike quality of pre-painted kits. PL made a great decision to produce the NX-01 as a large scale glue and paint model. Then they will follow up with the tiny and, in my opinion, insignificant and forgettable Scorpion? Bad move... but I'll buy one anyway.

Revell-Monogram: Allowed their Babylon 5 license to languish in obscurity after producing only 3 kits, two of which were identical except for the decals. Dead [xx(]

It is really hard to tell if these companies are doing any market research before they decide on what to manufacture. If they do, they haven't asked me!!! Angry [:(!]

Here are a few things I'd like very much to see from these companies. You may say, "Look to garage kit companies for these", but that isn't the point. I'm afraid that most modelers don't have the time, resources, or money to hunt down a second-rate resin kit because the major companies don't want to take the risk.

My wish list:
Reman dreadnought from Star Trek: Nemesis
Klingon Negh'Var dreadnought from "All Good Things" and DS9
Nebula class cruiser from ST: TNG (not a conversion kit)
Any of the following from Babylon 5: Whitestar, Shadow cruiser, Minbari Sharlin, Earthforce Omega Destroyer, Narn G'quan, Centauri Primus, Vorlon cruiser (can you tell I like B5?)

So, what do the rest of you want? And how do we make ourselves heard by the manufacturers?

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therriman

Member since
January 2003
From: Central MI

Posted by therriman on Saturday, October 11, 2003 11:24 PM

I am rather fond of B-5 myself. But I really like the PL TOS "E" kit. It requires some work to get right (seams filled, etc). But, is also easy enough to allow my Autistic son to do one without interferring with work in progress.

Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.

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therriman

Member since
January 2003
From: Central MI

Posted by therriman on Saturday, October 11, 2003 11:38 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by therriman

But, is also easy enough to allow my Autistic son to do one without interferring with work in progress.

On the other kits I'm working on (If it makes any sense).

I'm not sure if I know what I'm talking about. I've really got to get a decent exhaust fan for airbrushing.

Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, October 12, 2003 12:07 AM

I see your point, Tim. Of course, I didn't mean that there isn't a market for the kits these manufacturers are making; I have two of the Polar Lights Enterprise myself, but I really want something "new", not just re-toolings of old subjects.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, October 12, 2003 1:33 AM

I'd still like to see a good version of the Cygnus from The Black Hole. Cleaning the sprues would be a bear, but who cares!
The Scorpion sounds pretty cool, though. Great looking ship.

I think the big problem with getting new Sci-Fi stuff in production is that Manufacturers are not willing to pay the huge royalty fees that go along with making those kits. Can't say I blame them.

demono69

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cmtaylor

Member since
February 2003
From: United Kingdom

Posted by cmtaylor on Sunday, October 12, 2003 4:39 AM

Where do I start?
Decent Models of the craft from the Gerry Anderson TV Series - most of the efforts to date have been overpriced caricatures
NSEA Protector from Galaxy Quest
Martian War Machines from the 1953 War of the worlds that are not overpriced and undersized.
Valley Forge from Silent Running

I could go on all day!

Gentlemen! You can't fight in here; this is the WAR ROOM!

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Gundamhead

Member since
June 2003

Posted by Gundamhead on Sunday, October 12, 2003 6:22 AM

Just about every kit you've all mentioned is available in resin. I wouldn't call any one of them second rate either. Pricey sometimes, but reasonable most of the time.
The problem I see most common is scale for most sci-fi stuff. Nobody can stick to one or two scales...

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, October 12, 2003 7:50 AM

I would like to have, in plastic, are:

The X-301 and the X-302 from Stargate, 1/48 scale.

a 1/350 scale Sulaco warship from Aliens

1/200 scale Nautilus from Disney
1/200 scale Seaview

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RogueJ

Member since
March 2003
From: Right Behind You

Posted by RogueJ on Sunday, October 12, 2003 8:37 AM

As mentioned previously, alot of those request are available in Resin. It does seem that besides Polar Lights, most of the major players have left us Sci-Fi modelers high and dry. I've seen dry spells before. Hey look at all the Trek kits coming out PL's NX-01 looks to be a great kit (over 200 parts) and while the Bandi pre-paints my not be YOUR cup of tea, they may be just fine for others. Plus, Fine Mold's line is growing. Yea, a little pricey, but choices are limited. IF you want the kit bad enough and can swing it...bite the bullet.

My wish list? hmmmmmmmm

Delta Flyer
Disney Nautilus
The Time Machine
Supercar
Decent size Y-wing
Accurate Millenium Falcon (listening Fine Molds?)
XL-5
New Romulan Warbird from Nemesis

Just a few..
Rogue

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Rob Gronovius

Member since
December 2002
From: Fort Knox

Posted by Rob Gronovius on Sunday, October 12, 2003 8:41 AM

You mention the real reason for the lack of sci-fi kits, the licensing (or cost of). I hear this is the reason why AMT/Ertl dropped the licenses for Trek and Star Wars. Plus a lot of sci-fi kits go out of favor once the show is over (Voyager kits for one, Phantom Menace for another).

QUOTE: FineMolds: Currently releasing nice Star Wars kits
My complaints: The kits are EXTREMELY difficult to get for a fair price. Plus, most of their topics have been done before, even if badly, by ERTL.

Don't blame Ertl for the bad Star Wars kits. Model Plastics Corporation (MPC, a division of General Mills Fun Group that also owned Kenner, who did all the movie Toys) did all of the original Star Wars kits from New Hope through Return of the Jedi. We should thank Ertl for reissuing kits at decent prices instead of paying collector's prices for former MPC kits. Check this month's Star Wars Insider for information on all these Star Wars model kits.

Ertl purchased MPC around 1988 and AMT/Ertl's original Star Wars kits include Phantom Menace kits, the two-pack TIE fighter set, Death Star, ProShop X-Wing, vinyl figure kits, Shadows of the Empire kits and re-tooling the Millenium Falcon into a cutaway kit and the Star Destroyer into a fiber optic kit. I've probably missed a few, but you get the idea. Some of these later Star Wars kits were of decent quality. The TIEs were nice as was the Trade Federation hover tank and Anakin's Pod Racer, arguably some of Ertl's best sci-fi kits to date.

As far as difficulty in getting Fine Molds kits, ordering direct from Japan through Hobby Link Japan (http://www.hlj.com) cuts the cost of a single kit in half and takes about 3 weeks to one month to arrive. If you have buddies into sci-fi modeling, go in with a group order and save on shipping. I've found their shipping to be more than reasonable and better than doing buisness with some companies based here in the states. I bought two FM X-Wings for $34 delivered. The same kit goes for $40+ a piece at my local hobby shop or on Ebay.

BTW, the PL TOS Enterprise isn't pre-painted, includes numerous waterslide decal options as well as stickers for the kids. A real high quality kit for around $10.

Edit: My daughter just finished the Gungan Sub for our IPMS club build "It Floats" theme. Another nicely detailed kit.

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J-Hulk

Member since
February 2003
From: Tochigi, Japan

Posted by J-Hulk on Sunday, October 12, 2003 11:11 AM

Well said, Rob.

Memeau, I understand your feelings about prepainted kits, but to equate the Bandai series of Star Trek kits to "toys" does a serious disservice to those excellent kits. Plus, there is nothing stopping a modeler from repainting them, if unsatisfied. You're right about the price, though: they ain't cheap.

Speaking of toys, I reckon the proliferation of SF toys in the market tends to keep the production of quality model kits low, particularly for trendy subjects like Star Wars and Star Trek.

Stuff like the Valley Forge or a Martian War Machine just wouldn't sell in today's market, I'm afraid. Heck yeah, I'd buy both of them (at least three Martian War Machines!), but I bet you couldn't fill a school bus full of youngsters today who have even seen "Silent Running."

And that's why there's the big cottage industry of "overpriced" resin kits out there now.

By the way, I have the old Lunar Models Martian War Machine, and I think it's great! At 16" wide, I don't think it's undersized at all. It was my first foray into vacu-formed and resin multi-media kits, but it went together no problem and looks pretty sweet sitting there on my shelf! The lighting kit was pretty dodgy, though. Better off doing that yourself!

But I digress...

~Brian

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, October 12, 2003 6:22 PM

Ravenstar Studios will be releasing a 1/1400th scale TNG Romulan Warbird and the Valdore from Nemesis. Sadly, though, he's discontinuing his Trek line by the end of the year. Time to scrape some cash together!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 13, 2003 10:55 AM

Okay, okay... I admit that some of my opinions may not have been fair to the kit manufacturers. That is the risk that one takes when making generalities.

Nevertheless, I want to thank you all for sharing your thoughts here. If we don't talk about it, how can we learn about it?

-Mark

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J-Hulk

Member since
February 2003
From: Tochigi, Japan

Posted by J-Hulk on Monday, October 13, 2003 11:46 AM

Absolutely!
I think you started a great topic, Mark.
I don't think any of us would say there are enough high quality, reasonably priced kits of the subjects we love.

Now, how do we let the major companies know what we want? Direct mail?

When I was at the Shizuoka Hobby Show last May, I had a chance to talk to Mr. Suzuki, president of FineMolds. He was really receptive and very interested in what I had to say about science fiction kits, particularly concerning Star Wars kits, obviously. He was quite surprised to hear that I personally wasn't too excited about the new Slave I (perhaps my least favorite Stars Wars design, but that's just me!), but he listened with great intent when I expressed extreme enthusiasm for a fantastic new Star Destroyer or Millennium Falcon (my two favorite designs from the Star Wars universe). He gave no hints as to what was to come (we already knew about the Tie Interceptor, also a design I'm no so crazy about!), but seemed very interested in my opinions.

If more people could speak directly to the folks in charge of the major (or not so major) companies, perhaps they would realize that there is a market out there, and more importantly, they would realize what that market wants.

Any other ideas?

~Brian

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 13, 2003 11:57 AM

Thanks, J-Hulk! I appreciate your kind words.

Indeed, how do we let the manufacturers know what we really want? And, directly related to that question, to whom do they listen? They must perceive a demand for the kits they sell, otherwise they wouldn't bother making them. So... who tells the big guys that another Enterprise or Slave I would sell but an AOTC AT-TE wouldn't?

Curious...

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roadkill_275

Member since
September 2003
From: North East Texas

Posted by roadkill_275 on Monday, October 13, 2003 12:12 PM

Just a thought, With the rash of movies coming out do you suppose there will be new kits coming out too? Looking forward to the new Thunderbirds live action! and I really hope they kit some of those ships! and that Limo!

Kevin M. Bodkins "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup" American By Birth, Southern By the Grace of God! www.milavia.com Christian Modelers For McCain

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Hoser

Member since
January 2003
From: Foothills of Colorado

Posted by Hoser on Monday, October 13, 2003 12:37 PM

Does anyone know the fate of Halcyon? They did quite a few kits from the Alien / Aliens movies - lots of Alien figures, the Space Jockey, Sulaco, Narcissus, Drop Ship, A.P.C. and the Nostromo. You can still find these on eBay, but the last time I saw a mint Nostromo it went for over $200.
Halcyon's molds are hopefully still around somewhere, it would be nice if one of the major mfg's could pick these up and do some re-issues.

"Trust no one; even those people you know and trust." - Jack S. Margolis

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J-Hulk

Member since
February 2003
From: Tochigi, Japan

Posted by J-Hulk on Monday, October 13, 2003 12:55 PM

That's a very good question...I loved their Predator 2 kit, as well as the Alien series stuff.

~Brian

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WizArtist

Member since
May 2003
From: USA

Posted by WizArtist on Monday, October 13, 2003 3:00 PM

Sigh.....I remember buying an X-wing kit for $8.00.

The problem is simply the fact that model making is a cash driven enterprise. And while I would be more than likely to purchase nice releases, the average modeler probably wouldn't. Plus, the fanboys have a tendency to buy toys rather than a kit they could put some love into. So if you are going to make an investment would you want a 100% return on money or 10,000% on a model with a more universal appeal?

What is really needed, is for a true sci-fi afficianado (with large sums of cash :D ) to decide to become the Moses of model making. Gear up a company to produce GOOD kits at reasonable prices without trying to squeeze every cent out of the product, but do it for the LOVE of Sci-fi modeling.

And yes......I realize I'm not in Kansas anymore.

Brian Whisenhunt

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 13, 2003 3:19 PM

Quick! Everyone who can, go out and buy tickets for the next U.S. Powerball Lottery! One of us is bound to win the jackpot and, Voila!, instant model company!!!

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cmtaylor

Member since
February 2003
From: United Kingdom

Posted by cmtaylor on Monday, October 13, 2003 4:24 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by roadkill_275
Looking forward to the new Thunderbirds live action! and I really hope they kit some of those ships! and that Limo!

You're in the minority! Quite frankly, I'd rather see decent kits of Derek Meddings originals, not these these travesties

Gentlemen! You can't fight in here; this is the WAR ROOM!

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Rob Gronovius

Member since
December 2002
From: Fort Knox

Posted by Rob Gronovius on Monday, October 13, 2003 6:57 PM

Yeah, it's easy to knock kits that were made in the late 1970s. When I bought the original X-Wing, Vader's TIE, R2-D2, C3PO, Star Destroyer and yes, the lighted Millenium Falcon in 1977-78, I thought they were truly cool, but the quality of the kits was below the standard of Monogram armor and aircraft kits I also owned at the time. I remember buying these kits at JC Penney and getting the Star Destroyer and Falcon for Christmas.

I guess making a model of a movie model that was created by bashing dozens of various models together gives a lot of room for error. At least we got models of the movie vehicles. I can remember sacrificing old Airfix, Monogram and Revell kits to create my own sci-fi kits.

And J-Hulk, I'm with you, I'd love to see a new high quality Star Destroyer kit. I still have the original one my little brother gave me for Chirstmas that was built straight OOB with tube glue. I bought the Sub Level accurization set and was planning to rebuild the kit, but the built kit has too much sentimental value so I acquired one of the reissues to accurize. Besides, the plastic on the old kit has become extremely brittle and breaks easily.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 13, 2003 8:06 PM

14-10-103
Hey guys,
Just to add my two cents worth...
I am stargate fan and would love a g'ould death glider and the f-303 in 1/48 scale too.
Any chance they already exisit?
I have bought two of Babylon 5 Starfurys (could resist) and have had two x-wings and two tie fighters in the past, but thought they were long gone by now, unitl i signed on to this crazy site.
I always thought there was a lack of interest on the part of the manufacturer, like they didn't know quite what to do with the merchandise.
Maybe this has changed.
And as we are on the subject , is it still possible to get Will smiths fighter from Independance day? Just curious.

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Woody

Member since
December 2002
From: Third rock from the sun.

Posted by Woody on Monday, October 13, 2003 8:59 PM

Hey guys, I wanted to share a thought with you. I'm an aircraft builder that has been bitten by the sci-fi bug. I have a couple Enterprise B's and a USS Grissom, that I traded for, on the way as we speak. I also plan on ordering a few PL TOS Enterprises shortly. The point I'm trying to get to is that my fellow modelers kit bashing of the PL kits has inspired me to join what I see as a rising trend. I haven't built a sci-fi kit since the 70's, but I'm excited about trying my hand at it. As more people start or turn to sci-fi modeling, the consumer base will swell. That is your hope for more and better kits. I feel it is inevitable that this segment of scale modeling will grow. Share your work, it's more helpful to your cause than you know!

" I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way." --John Paul Jones

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philp

Member since
December 2002
From: USA

Posted by philp on Monday, October 13, 2003 10:37 PM

Hi all,
I am very excited that we have 3 manufacturers currently making new kits from Star Trek and Star Wars. While the Bandai kits are a little too rich for my blood and the same with most of the Garage kits, I will probably buy most of what PL is releasing and will try HLJ for some more of the SW kits (got the X-Wing, probably one of the best SF kits ever). Would love to see PL release the old Romulan warbird, BOP, 1701-D and a few others in the 1/1000 scale. Would also love to get the USS Bozeman (graduated from Montana State). In SW would love a 1/72 Y-wing, Falcon and a TIE bomber, maybe a new AT-AT and AT-ST with in scale Snowspeeder and Jawa Crawler. Got the get the new Batboat. Would love for someone to bite the bullett and get the liscense for the TV Batmobile. Know the cost would be high but feel they would recover it many times over. Hasagawa is doing some 1/72 kits from Robotech that look real nice. Would love to see Battletech rereleased in 72nd. Not much of a fan of the Gundam but it is getting some new blood into Sci-fi.
I am selling some of my older kits (got to fund the newer stuff). If you are interested, take a look over at Starship Modeler or IPMSUSA.

Phil Peterson IPMS #8739 Join the Map http://www.frappr.com/finescalemodeler

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Gundamhead

Member since
June 2003

Posted by Gundamhead on Monday, October 13, 2003 11:17 PM

Yeehah, visit this site and look through the listings. You may find things that interest you.
http://www.federationmodels.com/

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J-Hulk

Member since
February 2003
From: Tochigi, Japan

Posted by J-Hulk on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 8:52 AM

Oh yeah, another recent SF release is Aoshima's very nice Interceptor from "The Road Warrior," and at about 20 bux US, it isn't that expensive at all!

~Brian

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 1:12 PM

I'm gonna have to check out that Interceptor. $20 is definitely in my price range! And a cool subject for a "cop's kid" like me!!

-Mark

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Aurora-7

Member since
December 2002
From: Connecticut, USA

Posted by Aurora-7 on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:12 PM

If scale modeling as an industry has been having a tough time then the sub-hobby of sci-fi modeling is going to have an even tougher time. You can see just from the forums here that sci-fi down not have the same amount of activity that aircraft and armor receive. I think in the terms of shear numbers, sci-modelers are a loyal, passionate, but a minority in the scale modeling population. You see it in hobby shops and model shows. -and kit manufacturers know this. Thank God for the internet or sci-fi modelers would never meet people to share their work with!

But if Polar Lights is successfull with their new Star Trek line, maybe it'll send the message the that a reasonably priced, good quality kit of a sci-fi theme can find a customer base.

As for movies, I'd love to see Isaac Asimov's Foundation book series or Larry Niven's book series (Ringworld) made into a movie.

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Woody

Member since
December 2002
From: Third rock from the sun.

Posted by Woody on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 11:32 PM

Yes to Ring World! Cool [8D]

Rumor has it that "The Moon is a Harsh Misteress" may be headed to the big screen. Talk about Ring World, how about Clark's Rama! Big Smile [:D]

" I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way." --John Paul Jones

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