Most historically significant naval vessel...?

Yes, the Americans had many heroic defense stories to tell, but the fact is, if the weather hadn't broken, allowing the US and allied fighter bombers to essentially destroy virtuyally all of the German tanks in very short order, the Ardennes would have been a much more protacted affair.  I am quite familiar with the battle history of 2nd Armored Division, as I was the Senior Intelligence Analyst for that Division for four years, including service in the Gulf War.  The books I mentioned about the Ardennes were written by Germans that participated in all aspects of the ground war.  Will Fey, the author of 'Armor Battles of the Waffen SS' was a commander of a Tiger, a platoon leader in a Tiger Battalion (SS-Panzerabteilung 102/502), and was also a very close friend of Jochen Peiper, and is a collectio of memoirs from the German side.  Same goes for my other reference, 'Tiger, the History of a Legendary Weapon', which is also a collection of memoirs from te German side.  If you get a chance, check 'em out!!  And now, back to our usually scheduled naval features......

telsono wrote:

searat12 - you should books from both sides of the situation. MacDonald has more than adequate credentials to speak of the subject as an historian for the US Army's history branch and the book has been praised by other historians like Carl d'Este about completeness on the subject. The work is fair to both sides and covers the battle by dividing it into the three axis of attack the Germans intended. Just going by the actions you mention gives on a partial partisan vies of that momentous battle. Read about the defense of St. Vith (studied by the US Armor school), the actions of the 82nd Airborne on the northern shoulder, the 2nd Armoured Division, the lack of German penetration at the southern shoulder, etc. Also, MacDonald was there! He led an infantry company at the defense of the twin villages of Krinkelt-Rocherath which was told in his first book "Company Commader". The German armor took a great deal of damage in that fight before the GI's retreated. Not reading MacDonald's book is like viewing the Guadalcanal Campaign only from the aviation aspect. Frank's book gives a good overview of that entire campaign. But we should get back to nautical subject that this thread is about. Mike T.

The 6th SS Panzer Army was really pitiful in its performance in the Bulge...the middle group, 5th Panzer Army actually made terrific advances and almost made the Meuse...the Army covering the Southern flank did well considering it was composed of primarily 2nd rate infantry units...regardless, at this strage of the war the German Army simply did not have enough reinforcements, fuel or logistical support to consolidate or hold the gains it made...The 6th Army was so lackluster that most of the panzer units there were disengaged and sent to help beseige Bastogne...

Hitler always maintained that his elite SS divisions never performed as well n the Western front as they did on the Eastern front...I tend to agree, even taking the into account the overwhelming air-superiority on the Western front...the only exception, IMO, would be the 12th SS Panzer Division's performance in holding Caen against the commonwealth forces...the absence of much in the way of mention of the 1st and 2nd SS PD's presence in historical accounts of the Normandy campaign is very conspicious...

Getting back to nautical themes, I would nominate the Gato CLASS as very historically significant in US naval history. More than any other class/type of vessel, they were responsible for more Japanese shipping tonnage sunk than all others, including the carriers. Once the problems with faulty torpedoes had been solved, they had a massive effect upon the Pacific War.

On a side note about the faulty torpedoes, The gantry that was used to test the torpedoes in San Francisco still stands at Hunter's Point. I see it daily just north of Candlestick Point. The extension they used to get greatly height to simulate the impact is painted red and white so not to be a danger to aviation.

Mike T.

How high did they have to raise the torpedos off the ground to get a simulated impact speed? I would think between gravity and the weight of the torpedo it would not have been overly high. Not enough to present a hazard to aircraft. Very interesting...

I nominate the LCI (landing craft, infantry)...

I nominate the LCVP. 

President Eisenhower was talking to Stephen Ambrose (of Band of Brothers fame) about Ambrose's home town of New Orleans and asked Ambrose if he knew Andrew Higgins. Ambrose replied that did not and asked Ike why he asked. Eisenhower replied that Andrew Higgins pretty much made D-Day possible and that he might be considered responsible for winning WWII because of his LCVP design and for getting over 20,000 of them built.

Here is a quote from ye olde Wikipedia:

No less an authority than the Supreme Allied Commander declared the Higgins boat to be crucial to the Allied victory on the European Western Front and the previous fighting in North Africa and Italy:

"Andrew Higgins ... is the man who won the war for us. ... If Higgins had not designed and built those LCVPs, we never could have landed over an open beach. The whole strategy of the war would have been different." - General Dwight Eisenhower

Come on,  We are talking about the MOST significant naval vessel in HISTORY.    That's all recorded human history, guys, something that spanned 30 times more years than USA, and encompassing the rise and fall of all civilization great and small, including many that were, or still are, far larger, longer lasting, and more profoundly and fundamentally influential even to the people of the present day than USA, and we are talking about some landing craft and some ship that might have taken part in pearl harbour in just the last 68 years?

 

 

Well, my first nomination, J.P. Jones' Ranger, on page one of this topic fell by the wayside. How do we know what the correct one is? Do we keep naming them off until someone says "YOU GOT IT"? Are we getting warm?

I think the subject is going along OK, we are getting a lot of different opinions and new outlooks on the subject.

And, if you go back to page one, we will find that the original question was "American history", not the history of mankind.

Chuck Fan wrote:

Come on,  We are talking about the MOST significant naval vessel in HISTORY.    That's all recorded human history, guys, something that spanned 30 times more years than USA, and encompassing the rise and fall of all civilization great and small, including many that were, or still are, far larger, longer lasting, and more profoundly and fundamentally influential even to the people of the present day than USA, and we are talking about some landing craft and some ship that might have taken part in pearl harbour in just the last 68 years?

Okay, throw one out there...I sorta nominated the LCI tongue-in-cheek to get this thread going again anyway...although I suppose it is a valid nomination at least...

How about the (1855) USS Niagara. It helped lay the first transatlantic telegraph line. The first step in instant worldwide communication.

Sky Cop wrote:

How about the (1855) USS Niagara. It helped lay the first transatlantic telegraph line. The first step in instant worldwide communication.

 

Good one.

The first trireme built - according to Thucydides - by Ameinocles for the Samians.

Because it was the first purpose-built warship.

Ever.

Jorit 

Hey, Manny, maybe you should fix the title of this thread to read "American" or change your opening question. The folks are misreading your intent.

jwintjes wrote:

The first trireme built - according to Thucydides - by Ameinocles for the Samians. Because it was the first purpose-built warship. Ever. Jorit

 

UNwarranted reliance on textural evidence.   

 

Original Question:

Which naval vessel in American history, in your opinion, is the most significant from a historical perspective? Which one, but most importantly, why?

...Mayflower? Constitution? Monitor? Maine? Langley? Arizona? Enterprise? Missouri? Nautilus? ....so many to choose from...  

Perhaps the title is throwing them off? Just the omission of the single word "American" misleads the latecomers to this thread.

edit the title to reflect the question as american not world.

Surfboard?

American naval: I vote CV-6 Enterprise #1, BB-38 Pennsylvania #2, and CA-35 Indianapolis #3.

 

Japanese naval: I.J.N. Akagi.

 

German naval: D.K.M. Bismarck.

 

British naval: H.M.S. Hood #1, H.M.S. Ark Royal #2

 

But thats just me.

oops....did I kill this thread with my reply?

How about the Monitor and the CSS Virginia (Merrimack)?

Ray

Yeah Ray, they have been mentioed earlier in the thread, they're good choices, especially the Monitor.

Mansteins revenge wrote:

Surfboard?

Oh, I get it!!!  Woohoo... took me a minute, but I finally figured it out.  Good one Manny!

I am not sure whether it was the Nautilus that was the first nuclear powered submarine,but, whichever one it was I think at least deserves some consideration in light of the changes it created in the tactical situation at the time and since.

mattdavis wrote:

I am not sure whether it was the Nautilus that was the first nuclear powered submarine,but, whichever one it was I think at least deserves some consideration in light of the changes it created in the tactical situation at the time and since.

Didn't Jimmy Carter CO the first US Nuclear sub???

No, he left the US Navy a year before the commissioning of USS Nautilus. He didn't even finish nuclear power school but did serve on diesel boats (USS Pomfret). He was training to be the engineer on the Seawolf when he resigned his commission in 1953.

I nominate the CSS "Hunley" or the "Turtle"...

Well the Hunley certainly showed one path in the future of Naval Warfare, not to mention it was successful in its' mission.

stikpusher - sorry to delay in responding about your comments about the torpedoes. They didn't drop the entire torpedo, just the warhead. The height it dropped from allowed for gravitational acceleration to simulate the impact speed. Although most aircraft do not fly over Hunter's Point, but helicopters could for police or other functions. In the old John Wayne movie "Operation Pacific" they show how the warheads were tested and this film is supposedly pretty accurate in this depiction.

Proto-Submarines like the Hunley really didn't become practical except for scouting until a different means of attack was developed. The spar torpedo and similar devices had limited application as they could destroy the vessel deploying it. After the British Whitehead Torpedo and the addition of gyroscopic control did a weapon that would make the submarine more than an interesting toy.

Mike T.