Most historically significant naval vessel...?

stikpusher wrote:

USS Enterprise, CV-6. She held the Line in the Pacific. At Midway, her Air Group sank 2 and shared in the sinking of 1 of the 4 Japanese carriers. Had her air group turned the wrong waay as Hornet's did, the battle would most likely have ended disastrously for the US.  Later during teh Guadalcanal Campaign her air group would again be instrumental in stopping the Japanese at the Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz carrier battles as well as later flying from Henderson Field to assist in the defense of the island itself. The whole Pacific War almost certainly would have gone on far longer and bloodier without her contributions of 1942. Not to detract from the other gallant ships that helped hold the line and turn the tide as well, but the Enterprise was usually in the right place at the right time to make key contributions.

Great nomination...any other opinions???

searat12 wrote:

It appears to me that this may be a somewhat pointless question, as there are many ships of significant historical importance, but each is important for very diffferent reasons.  In other words, it is like discussing the proverbial apples and oranges, and I can only think that there will be little agreement as to which is more 'important' relatively than the others....... Perhaps you might re-phrase the question to be a bit more specific?

Mmmmmm...good point, but I didn't write "most important" I wrote "most historically significant"...Yeah, there will be different opinions and different points of view and reasons, but I'm not looking for concensus, I'm looking for a diversity of views...

Ranger with John Paul Jones. He brought the war home to the British and the ship helped turn opinion and bring assets back for the defense of the isles. 

Enterprise is a historically significant ship, I'm not dismissing her, but out situation in WWII was nowhere near as dire as it was during the revolution. 

Very good point Tracy. Japan's goal  during WWII against the US was to defeat them in battle and have the US negotiate a truce/armistace/cease fire, thus allowing Japan free reign over all the territories and resources captured in the opening months of 1942. An actual destruction of the US as a nation was never a goal or possibility.

I (not being as familiar with the Revolutionary War as with WWII) did not know that John Paul Jones and the Ranger had that much an effect upon that war. The birth of a nation itself being at stake, certainly raises any major contribution to a higher status.

Other ships first named here such as USS Maine, USS Arizona, or USS Misouri, are more symbolic figureheads than for actual wartime contributions. Psycologic rallying points, but little more.

Tracy White wrote:

Ranger with John Paul Jones. He brought the war home to the British and the ship helped turn opinion and bring assets back for the defense of the isles.  Enterprise is a historically significant ship, I'm not dismissing her, but out situation in WWII was nowhere near as dire as it was during the revolution.

Both USS Enterprise and Ranger are excellent nominations!  How about Bonhomme Richard under John Paul Jones?  Like Ranger, she took the war directly to the British; but, her achievement in taking HMS Serapis added a certain pinache to the American war effort at sea.

The problem here is that there are so very many possibilities for the most historically significant ship in American naval history. Omitting Mayflower as not being a naval ship, we have Ranger and Bonhomme Richard of Revolutionary War fame, the USS United States and Constellation in the Quasi-War with France, USS Constitution in the War of 1812, CSS Virginia, USS Monitor, USS Hartford, USS Kearsarge, and CSS Hunley in the Civil War, USS Oregon in the Spanish-American War, USS Michigan (the first battleship with a superimposed main battery), and all the well-known American ships of WWII and beyond!

It is an incredibly pleasant topic of conversation!

Bill Morrison 

 I would say the U S Navy's MONITOR would be at the top. Consider that overnight almost every wooden navy in the world was obsolete, in terms of tactics and naval stratagy. Certainly there were a few iron ships in other nation's naval inventory but none had a revolving turret (if my memory serves me correctly). And I believe no turreted metal warships were engaged in battle prior to the MONITOR/VIRGINA shoot out. We take the turreted gun warship as gospel today, but try to imagine what Jack Tar must have thought the day after the battle in his sail propelled wooden man of war.  Consider the first ship that employs laser guns that can pierce any known metal, propelled at 60 knots by some exotic engineering plant with total stealth capabilities, perhaps even undetected by the human eye. Sounds crazy today but if some nation were to put one on the high seas next week, every nation would have today's equivalent  of a "wooden navy".   IMHO!

thunder1 wrote:

I would say the U S Navy's MONITOR would be at the top. Consider that overnight almost every wooden navy in the world was obsolete, in terms of tactics and naval stratagy. Certainly there were a few iron ships in other nation's naval inventory but none had a revolving turret (if my memory serves me correctly). And I believe no turreted metal warships were engaged in battle prior to the MONITOR/VIRGINA shoot out. We take the turreted gun warship as gospel today, but try to imagine what Jack Tar must have thought the day after the battle in his sail propelled wooden man of war.  Consider the first ship that employs laser guns that can pierce any known metal, propelled at 60 knots by some exotic engineering plant with total stealth capabilities, perhaps even undetected by the human eye. Sounds crazy today but if some nation were to put one on the high seas next week, every nation would have today's equivalent  of a "wooden navy".   IMHO!

I'd divide it into three or five or more eras, and then decide from there.

* pre-revolutionary war; I think they call it a "74 gun ship of the line", and this ship was significant all the way into and thru out the Napolionic Wars.

* Revolution till about 1850; The Ranger would be high on the list, but the Constitution would have been top of the heap

* 1850 till 1880; The ironclads (pick one)

* The era of coal fired battleships has started. The Royal Navy takes over here with the "Dreadnaught". This ship will change all thinking from now on, and render anything built prior to the Dreadnaught as completely obsolite (by the way this is my overall pick!)

* the aircraft carrier. Pick One!

* but alas the fourth most powerfull thing in the world has all but been forgotten! The Trident submarine of course. Any one of them is capable of taking all of Russia or China out by itself (and don't think they don't know this!)

gary

A couple of points Gary. The question was for the most historically significant AMERICAN ship; Dreadnaught was Royal Navy, not United States Navy.

Sure, the Trident boomers are powerful, but he's asking why they are historically significant. I believe it is too early to tell how significant they truly were, are, or will be.

The most important ship in American history? Funny no mention of the Santa Maria yet.

Uhu wrote:

The most important ship in American history? Funny no mention of the Santa Maria yet.

I believe the original question concerned the most important "naval" vessel. The Santa Maria (and her sisters) was an exploration vessel. My vote goes to J.P. Jones' Ranger. She was the first US Navy ship to be recognized and saluted as such by a foreign navy (French) thereby establishing the US as a legitimate nation. The Constitution is a very close second with Enterprise (CV-6) next.

subfixer wrote:

My vote goes to J.P. Jones' Ranger. She was the first US Navy ship to be recognized and saluted as such by a foreign navy (French) thereby establishing the US as a legitimate nation. The Constitution is a very close second with Enterprise (CV-6) next.

(my emphasis); exactly what I was going to type.... cant get much more 'historically significant' than official recognition as an indepedent nation.

Big E in 2nd for me, for the reasons mentioned in other posts.

and if we venture outside the USA, HMS Victory has my vote.

Here are some ships that haven't been considered.

USRC (Revenue Cutter) SCAMMEL, her first Captain was Hopley Yeaton - the first Commissioned Officer of the United States.  All of the Revolutionary naval officers were technically in the Continental Navy.

USRC HARRIET LANE credited with firing the first naval shot of the Civil War.

USRC NAUGATUCK, also known as E. A. STEVENS, was a gun battery that could partially submerge for protection.  She took part in the battle between USS MONITOR and CSS VIRGINIA.

USRC RUSH, seal poachers would often "Come early and avoid the Rush."

USRC HUDSON a 95' steam tug noted for towing the disabled USS WINSLOW out of harms way in Cuba during the Spanish American War.

CGCs EASTWIND and SOUTHWIND captured the Nazi weather and supply vessel EXTERNSTEINE off the coast of Greenland after a brief fire-fight on October 14, 1944.  There were no casualties.   EXTERNSTEINE  was the only enemy surface vessel captured at sea by U.S. naval forces during the war. 

USCGCs STORIS, SPAR, & BRAMBLE worked their way up around Alaska and Canada in 1957.  SPAR & BRAMBLE continued to the east coast; STORIS returned to west to Alaska.  SPAR later became the first US Vessel to circumnavigate North America.

USCGC POLAR SEA became the first US surface vessel to reach the North Pole on August 22, 1994.

Which naval vessel in American history, in your opinion, is the most significant from a historical perspective? Which one, but most importantly, why?

Now, I'm taking "naval vessel" to mean "ship," and not "military ship."  So:

Susan Constant, Discovery, and Godspeed -- the three vessels who brought the first settlers to Jamestown, Virginia, which was to become the first permanent English settlement in the New World. 

So I'm arguing that those three ships helped make American history possible.

For the record, the three ships mentioned above landed on May 14, 1607. The Mayflower landed in Plymoth, Mass. in  1620.

If it has to be a U.S. military ship, then there are just too many to choose from. I like Enterprise (CV-6), but I also like the suggestion of ballistic missile submarines. I don't think it is too early to assess their significance. Without them, I suspect the Cold War would have been a lot hotter.

Regards, 

CG Bob wrote:

Here are some ships that haven't been considered. USRC (Revenue Cutter) SCAMMEL, her first Captain was Hopley Yeaton - the first Commissioned Officer of the United States.  All of the Revolutionary naval officers were technically in the Continental Navy. USRC HARRIET LANE credited with firing the first naval shot of the Civil War. USRC NAUGATUCK, also known as E. A. STEVENS, was a gun battery that could partially submerge for protection.  She took part in the battle between USS MONITOR and CSS VIRGINIA. USRC RUSH, seal poachers would often "Come early and avoid the Rush." USRC HUDSON a 95' steam tug noted for towing the disabled USS WINSLOW out of harms way in Cuba during the Spanish American War. CGCs EASTWIND and SOUTHWIND captured the Nazi weather and supply vessel EXTERNSTEINE off the coast of Greenland after a brief fire-fight on October 14, 1944.  There were no casualties.   EXTERNSTEINE  was the only enemy surface vessel captured at sea by U.S. naval forces during the war.  USCGCs STORIS, SPAR, & BRAMBLE worked their way up around Alaska and Canada in 1957.  SPAR & BRAMBLE continued to the east coast; STORIS returned to west to Alaska.  SPAR later became the first US Vessel to circumnavigate North America. USCGC POLAR SEA became the first US surface vessel to reach the North Pole on August 22, 1994.

Oh boy, here we go! The dadburn Coasties are weaseling their way into it now. The subject doesn't include vessels that, if sunk, the crew can wade to shore and await rescue!

(Now to hunker down and prepare for the inevitable onslaught of return fire)

Mikeym_us wrote:

How about the original USS Enterprise which took part in the invasion of Tripoli and which had the original US Marines aboard.

you know, if we just concentrate on the NAME and not just "one ship", Enterprise wins hands down.... 

USS Enterprise (1799) 12-gun schooner / 14-gun brig - Tripoli invasion as stated above

USS Enterprise CV-6 - most decorated vessel of WW2 accounting for 911 enemy planes, 71 ships sunk, and damaged or destroyed 192 more.

USS Enterprise CVN-65 - first nuclear CV 

total of 8 US ships have been named Enterprise (2 Continental Navy) but TEN ships have been named Enterprise by... the UFP (United Federation of Planets) in the Startrek world 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise

subfixer wrote:

Oh boy, here we go! The dadburn Coasties are weaseling their way into it now. The subject doesn't include vessels that, if sunk, the crew can wade to shore and await rescue! (Now to hunker down and prepare for the inevitable onslaught of return fire)

The US Navy never operates more than 7 miles from land.  The Mariana Trench is just under 7 miles deep.

 As for wading ashore when the ship sinks, we can eliminate the Swift Boats and PBR's along with the MONITOR and VIRGINIA. 

Speaking as someone across this side of the Atlantic, can I offer the SS Patrick Henry? The first Liberty Ship, without which we would probably be speaking German over here.

There are two ways to look at this, by historic event or engineering technology.

Fulton's Clermont for providing a standard for steam propulsion.

Erickson's USS Monitor which began the change in how armament was mounted.

The Baltimore Clippers made a change in ship design that evolved from fast privateers in the War of 1812 into the great clipper ships later in the 19th century that plied their wares over the seven seas.

Holland's USS Nautilus a practical submarine

Mike T.

Lufbery wrote:

Which naval vessel in American history, in your opinion, is the most significant from a historical perspective? Which one, but most importantly, why? So I'm arguing that those three ships helped make American history possible.

Strictly speaking, those three ships made European American history possible.  Some Native Americans might consider them signficant for far greater reasons...