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Heller Royal Louis *WIP 11/21*

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  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:23 AM
Certainly!  I refer you to the exhaustive book 'The French Navy & The Seven Years War' by Jonathan R. Dull.  In it are a number of accounts regarding the state of French ships of that period and following, in which entire campaigns were ruined as a result of plagues that killed the majority of the crews and/or soldiers carried.  These plagues of Typhus were the direct result of poor hygiene aboard, and one direct result was the loss of the great Canadian fortress of Louisburg, because the sizeable fleet sent with thousands of reinforcing troops was decimated by disease. The fleet barely made it back to France with the survivors, and then spread the infection to the towns, with over 30,000 casualties recorded, just within the ranks of the French Navy!  One other standard to note, which carried through much of the Naploeonic Wars was the British custom of stripping, and purposely sinking and refloating captured ships to rid them of infestations of the lice and fleas inherent with french warships.  If this was not possible, then fumigation with burning sulpher pots was often required.  The British very early on made a great study of the diseases inherent with seamen, and many treatises and experiments were carried out.  Such efforts resulted not only in the discovery of a preventative for scurvy in the mid 18th century (lemons and lime juice, which was not 'discovered' or followed by either the French, or the Spanish until AFTER the Napoleonic wars!), but also the great benefits to be acquired by a scrupulous attention to cleanliness of the crew, and cleanliness of the ship, which became virtually a requirement and standard operating procedure for all British commanders, and this spilled over into the British East India company as well.  You might also examine the biography of the great (but filthy!) French Admiral Suffren and his activities in the Indian Ocean for contemporary accounts of the condition and hygiene of French warships (Admiral Satan,' by Roderick Cavaliero).  Not to put too fine a point on it, the French ships stank and their nationality could be easily told if you happened to be downwind of one...... The account of Mr. Boudriot relates to the standard practice on British warships, not French!  Prior to the Revoluution, all ships officers on French warships were members of the aristocracy, and owed their position to court influence, not skill, experience, or training.  the best officers on the French navy in fact received their training through service with the Knights of Malta, not any French naval academy (Suffren is the greatest example of this).  But even here, family connections were paramount, not merit.  Little, or no attention was paid to most of the ships workings by the officers, and even less was paid to the condition of the men, or the conditions they lived in.
  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: The green shires of England
Posted by GeorgeW on Thursday, November 13, 2008 8:32 AM

Thanks searat for the reference to the J.R. Dull book, I have ordered it from Amazon.

I'm not sure I am prepared to assume that Boudriot is referring to British practice,as his work specifically relates to the French 74 from framing thro' to sailing, with only passing references to the British navy; one of which was that the French Navy denied itself the only remedy against the onset of scurvy despite the example given by the English navy!

Perhaps he is describing the laid down procedures or ideal which are more honoured in the breach than the rule, even today the French have a reputation for disregarding their own rules if it suits them.

He is writing at a date of 1780, some twenty years after the Seven years war, had things improved to some extent by then, I don't know.

Anyway on the Seventy-four I am currently building I've no intention of trying to replicate either filth or smell, mine will be an example of a ship run by a conscientious Captain, as described by Boudriot.

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:48 AM

I also strongly recommend the book about Admiral Suffren, probably the finest Admiral the French Navy ever produced!  His naval efforts were remarkable, but the ships in his squadron were filthy, and he was himself as well (Suffren was a glutton, ate with his fingers, often neglected to bathe or shave, or change his clothes for weeks either.  And he was the Admiral!).  Here is a good online reference ref hygiene in the French Navy during the Seven Years war:

http://books.google.com/books?id=T-9JF-J7b0kC&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=French+naval+cleanliness&source=bl&ots=3lpC1W-yBJ&sig=WCOtSO36cNCfvqV70RVbOuFu_hk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA99,M1

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: The green shires of England
Posted by GeorgeW on Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:20 AM

Thanks searat, I looked at the Saffren book on Amazon, but at £80 it was too rich for my blood, so I'll have to defer the pleasure of reading about a less than fragrant, obese naval commander, no matter how brilliant a tactician.

Cheers

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:25 AM

Try to find the book used on ebay.  It really is a good one!

Here are a few more references online for French and British hygiene, and the enormous strides made bythe British long before taken up by the French, or Spanish... This is from 1799, the whole text of which can be seen at:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pbtyc/Select_Docs/124_Medical_Reforms.html

I beg leave to give an instance, in the Formidable, of the great and salutary effects of the proposed improvements. This ship left England, furnished not only with sour kraut and molasses, in common with most others in the squadron, but what was peculiar to herself was an entire supply of good wine in place of spirits; and an experiment has been made in this instance, under my own eyes, to ascertain what degree of health it was possible to attain in a great ship in this climate. With the above advantages together with good discipline and medical care, no man 1 died of disease from December, 1781, to May, 1782, and only thirteen were sent to hospitals, whose complaints were small-pox and ulcers. In the months of May and June last, when at Jamaica, there died of disease in this ship three men, and seventeen were sent to the hospital, most of whom had contracted their sickness on board of French prizes.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Heller Royal Louis *WIP 11/21*
Posted by enemeink on Friday, November 21, 2008 1:21 PM

these things are tiny (2.5mm)!

i've just been spending some time messing around with the dead eyes the last couple of weeks. next time i'll forgoe the string and just use wire for stropping the deadeyes it seems like it would be less of a headache and a little more realistic. and better looking to say the least. oh well, overall i'm pleased with what i've got done.

funny how not so great things look when you get close up......

 

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