Greatest ship vs ship shot ever made?

    Distances???

            My computer is being s   l   o   w...

 I'll try to look it up later.

                    60

OK, second was Israel vs Syria, Oct 73 Battle of Latakia. My memory was hazy about the foe, but it was the Yom Kippur war as I had believed.

Here is a link

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4279

stikpusher wrote:

OK, second was Israel vs Syria, Oct 73 Battle of Latakia. My memory was hazy about the foe, but it was the Yom Kippur war as I had believed. Here is a link http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4279

According to this link, it becomes a toss up between Scharnhorst and Warspite for hits fired from a moving ship against a moving ship. This is primaily due to there rangefinder/determination issue noted here. Roughly 26,000 to 26,400 yards.

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-006.htm

But for overall ship to ship hit, I have yet to find any confirmed (with radar or other electronic instrument) hit further than USS Massachusetts/Jean Bart of 28,000-29,000 yards of moving vs stationary. This was measured with radar.

I was also able to turn up some reports of 30,000+ yard straddles, but no hits, at Leyte Gulf off Samar by the Japanese (34,000yards), and Iowa Class  battleships (35,700yards) off Truk in Feb 1944

In all cases, some very good shooting.

subfixer wrote:

I think the Egyptians sunk an Israeli destroyer with missile firing patrol boats.

Yup, they sure did.  I posted something on it earlier in this thread (or maybe one of the other many nautical discussions sparked by Manny).  There is a story on it in the most trecent (October 2008) Naval History.  The title is The Cruise Missle Comes of Age.  On 21 October 1967, the Israeli destroyer Eilat was hit and sunk by three Styx cruise missles fired from a pair of Egyptian patrol boats.  Out of a crew of 199, 47 sailors were killed, 91 wounded.

Mansteins revenge wrote:

stikpusher wrote: OK, second was Israel vs Syria, Oct 73 Battle of Latakia. My memory was hazy about the foe, but it was the Yom Kippur war as I had believed. Here is a link http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4279   What was the longest distance a ship scored a hit w/ gunfire against another ship in history?

There you go, Manny.  The original question.  No where does it mention whether the firing or the target ship had to be mobile or stationary....  I gotta go with Stikpusher on this one - seems like you have an answer that you decided on and are rejecting any other considerations out of hand...

If mobility is a crucial component to your question, what about the info from Wiki that I posted on the last page regarding Warspite?:

From the Wiki entry on the HMS Warspite (emphasis mine):

"During the Battle of Calabria she was credited with achieving the longest range gunnery hit from a moving ship to a moving target in history. This was a hit on the Giulio Cesare at a range of approximately 26,000 yards (see also the Scharnhorst, which scored a hit on the Glorious at approximately the same distance, in June 1940)."

This seems to suggest that it is not clear cut whether Scharnhorst or Warspite should be given the status you wish to bestow...

bbrowniii wrote:

Mansteins revenge wrote:  stikpusher wrote: OK, second was Israel vs Syria, Oct 73 Battle of Latakia. My memory was hazy about the foe, but it was the Yom Kippur war as I had believed. Here is a link http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4279   What was the longest distance a ship scored a hit w/ gunfire against another ship in history? There you go, Manny.  The original question.  No where does it mention whether the firing or the target ship had to be mobile or stationary....  I gotta go with Stikpusher on this one - seems like you have an answer that you decided on and are rejecting any other considerations out of hand... If mobility is a crucial component to your question, what about the info from Wiki that I posted on the last page regarding Warspite?: From the Wiki entry on the HMS Warspite (emphasis mine): "During the Battle of Calabria she was credited with achieving the longest range gunnery hit from a moving ship to a moving target in history. This was a hit on the Giulio Cesare at a range of approximately 26,000 yards (see also the Scharnhorst, which scored a hit on the Glorious at approximately the same distance, in June 1940)." This seems to suggest that it is not clear cut whether Scharnhorst or Warspite should be given the status you wish to bestow...

Mansteins revenge wrote:

bbrowniii wrote:  Mansteins revenge wrote:  stikpusher wrote: OK, second was Israel vs Syria, Oct 73 Battle of Latakia. My memory was hazy about the foe, but it was the Yom Kippur war as I had believed. Here is a link http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4279   What was the longest distance a ship scored a hit w/ gunfire against another ship in history? There you go, Manny.  The original question.  No where does it mention whether the firing or the target ship had to be mobile or stationary....  I gotta go with Stikpusher on this one - seems like you have an answer that you decided on and are rejecting any other considerations out of hand... If mobility is a crucial component to your question, what about the info from Wiki that I posted on the last page regarding Warspite?: From the Wiki entry on the HMS Warspite (emphasis mine): "During the Battle of Calabria she was credited with achieving the longest range gunnery hit from a moving ship to a moving target in history. This was a hit on the Giulio Cesare at a range of approximately 26,000 yards (see also the Scharnhorst, which scored a hit on the Glorious at approximately the same distance, in June 1940)." This seems to suggest that it is not clear cut whether Scharnhorst or Warspite should be given the status you wish to bestow... Loosen up, bbrowniii...lol...I asked the original question and more clearly defined it when I felt it went out of bounds from my original intent. No big deal. I had an idea that it was the Scharnhorst, but it does seem to be a toss-up, as stikpusher noted...I suppose everyone would come down on their favorite ship with the tie...where's your beef?

goodthing we're talking about ship to ship hits. The Battleship New Jersey recorded several hits at max range on land targets west of Tam Key in late 1968 (over 20 miles. Rounds were fired one at a time, and the first hit was adjusted off a white smoke spotter round. Next call was "right 800; up two hundred" with round dead on the haystack.

    There was also the deal with the New Jersey shelling a mountain way east of Beruit after they blew the Marine barricks up.

gary

Do hits against mobile remote controlled target ships during exercises count?   

 US, German and Japanese navies all practiced super-range gun fire between wars and achieved enough success during exercises to cause them to believe that hits out to 35,000 yards were practical.     As early as WWI, it was already the doctrine of the Austro-Hungarian navy to begin gunnery engagement at 26,000 yards.   

So 26-27,000 yards were the longest ranged hits achieved in combat.   The longest range gunnery hit from one moving ship against another in both combat and exercise, ever, is almost certainly in greatly excess of 26-27,000 yards.    

Mansteins revenge wrote:

Loosen up, bbrowniii...lol...I asked the original question and more clearly defined it when I felt it went out of bounds from my original intent. No big deal. I had an idea that it was the Scharnhorst, but it does seem to be a toss-up, as stikpusher noted...I suppose everyone would come down on their favorite ship with the tie...where's your beef?

Manny, Manny, Manny... let's not make this about us... lets try to stay focused on the issues that are important to the American people...  oops, sorry, still got 'debate speak' going through my head...

I 'gots no beef', Manny.  I was simply restating stikpushers point that what was framed as an 'open question' at the start was appearing to have a predetermined answer, regardless of what information was presented.  I just like trying to stir up the pot every now and again - don't take it personally...

subfixer wrote: C'mon, Coast Guard Bob!  The question was longest distance not just best shot,

bondoman wrote:

Scharnhorst hits HMS Glorious at 26,300 yards on June 8, 1940, according to Wiki.

BigJim wrote:

subfixer wrote: C'mon, Coast Guard Bob!  The question was longest distance not just best shot, Ah com'on, yer a subfixer! From my periscope, the subject above clearly states "Greatest ship vs ship shot ever made". To which I will put into nomination The U.S.S. Wahoo with Mush Morton & company in Wewak Harbor with a clutch down the throat torpedo shot on a Japanese destroyer.

True, but as with several of Manny's posts, you have to read his initial post to get the full question. He clearly stated "gunfire". Go back and read the first post of this thread, you'll see.

subfixer wrote:

BigJim wrote: subfixer wrote: C'mon, Coast Guard Bob!  The question was longest distance not just best shot, Ah com'on, yer a subfixer! From my periscope, the subject above clearly states "Greatest ship vs ship shot ever made". To which I will put into nomination The U.S.S. Wahoo with Mush Morton & company in Wewak Harbor with a clutch down the throat torpedo shot on a Japanese destroyer. True, but as with several of Manny's posts, you have to read his initial post to get the full question. He clearly stated "gunfire". Go back and read the first post of this thread, you'll see.

True, he did state gunfire, but is it reasonable to argue that, since subs rarely engaged with deckguns, that some of their torpedo shots bear consideration?  Actually, the title says the 'Greatest' ship vs. ship shot.  Did Manny say in the original post if by, 'greatest', he specifically meant greatest range?  Aren't there some shorter range shots that might be considered 'great' simply due to the circumstances under which they were made or the results that they had on the adversary?

EDIT: OK, I re-read the original post, and Manny specifically asks for greatest range.  But since that has been settled (basically) might we reconsider the definition of 'Greatest' to include factors other than range?  How about a short range shot made at night or under adverse sea conditions?  Or an outgunned ship making that one crucial shot that disables or even sinks its superiorly armed adversary?  I'm no  naval historian, but this line of questioning Manny threw out has definately piqued my curiousity...

bbrowniii wrote:

subfixer wrote:  BigJim wrote: subfixer wrote: C'mon, Coast Guard Bob!  The question was longest distance not just best shot, Ah com'on, yer a subfixer! From my periscope, the subject above clearly states "Greatest ship vs ship shot ever made". To which I will put into nomination The U.S.S. Wahoo with Mush Morton & company in Wewak Harbor with a clutch down the throat torpedo shot on a Japanese destroyer. True, but as with several of Manny's posts, you have to read his initial post to get the full question. He clearly stated "gunfire". Go back and read the first post of this thread, you'll see. True, he did state gunfire, but is it reasonable to argue that, since subs rarely engaged with deckguns, that some of their torpedo shots bear consideration?  Actually, the title says the 'Greatest' ship vs. ship shot.  Did Manny say in the original post if by, 'greatest', he specifically meant greatest range?  Aren't there some shorter range shots that might be considered 'great' simply due to the circumstances under which they were made or the results that they had on the adversary? EDIT: OK, I re-read the original post, and Manny specifically asks for greatest range.  But since that has been settled (basically) might we reconsider the definition of 'Greatest' to include factors other than range?  How about a short range shot made at night or under adverse sea conditions?  Or an outgunned ship making that one crucial shot that disables or even sinks its superiorly armed adversary?  I'm no  naval historian, but this line of questioning Manny threw out has definately piqued my curiousity...

OK, how about the shot made by USS Ward on a Japanese midget submarine at the mouth of Pearl Harbor? http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/HURL/midget.html

It wasn't remarkable because of the range but that it resulted in the first casualty in what became the war between Japan and the USA in the Pacific. The crew consisted of Naval reservists from Minnesota and the 4" gun that fired the fatal shot is on display as a memorial at the Minnesota State Capital.

Here is a link to a good Wiki entry on the Ward: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ward

subfixer wrote:

OK, how about the shot made by USS Ward on a Japanese midget submarine at the mouth of Pearl Harbor? http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/HURL/midget.html It wasn't remarkable because of the range but that it resulted in the first casualty in what became the war between Japan and the USA in the Pacific. The crew consisted of Naval reservists from Minnesota and the 4" gun that fired the fatal shot is on display as a memorial at the Minnesota State Capital. Here is a link to a good Wiki entry on the Ward: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ward