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Pyro/Life-Like (now Lindberg) HMAV Bounty

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  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Pyro/Life-Like (now Lindberg) HMAV Bounty
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Saturday, August 8, 2009 12:55 PM

I've had a copy of the Life-Like Bounty for a while now, a gift from my best friend Doug, a fellow model builder (and a fine one, might I add). I've had this model before in its Academy guise from the 1980's, so I knew what to expect.The model works out to be approximately 1/180.

 From Pyro/Life-Like HMAV Bounty

 In short, this kit is a real mixed bag; it has decent, if crude, deck details and the hull is mostly good except for the bow and head rails and the stern below the waterline.

 

From Pyro/Life-Like HMAV Bounty

From Pyro/Life-Like HMAV Bounty

 Since I amjust using this model as a break from my smaller (and more eyestraining) Santa Maria, I decided to set the following guidelines for building this model -

1.  I could reshape the bow and add a new head.

2. I would cut the model to waterline.

3. I would use as much of the kit's material as possible, including the masts. However, I would correct the sail plan (the one the kit comes with is based on the 1962 Lunenburg built replica (which is much larger than the real vessel, for filming purposes). 

4. This would be a fun project.

I started on the evening of the 7th of August, 2009. I attacked the bow first, rebuilding it with styrene and an ample amount of putty. 

From Pyro/Life-Like HMAV Bounty

From Pyro/Life-Like HMAV Bounty

From Pyro/Life-Like HMAV Bounty

From Pyro/Life-Like HMAV Bounty

 Once I began, though, I decided to take a chance and actually try to correct (if even a little) the lower stern lines.

From Pyro/Life-Like HMAV Bounty

 As of noon on the 8th of August, this is how the model looks - 

From Pyro/Life-Like HMAV Bounty
From Pyro/Life-Like HMAV Bounty

More to come.

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Saturday, August 8, 2009 6:43 PM

Most of the hull is now finished (after a number of hours just plugging away; I'm sick today, not much else to do, don't feel like being in bed...). I'll probably do the headrails this week, but for now going to return to the Santa Maria, who awaits completion. 

 

From Pyro/Life-Like HMAV Bounty
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From Pyro/Life-Like HMAV Bounty
"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Saturday, August 8, 2009 8:29 PM
 HEY V.A.!! Thats a nice looking job . I was beginning to think I was nuts doing these little guys . They can be fun and , depending on what you want to do ,they can be a blast to do!!I did the mayflower and after correcting it to the pics in NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC it was fun , plain and simple . The nice part about these little guys is they don,t take up as much room ! I recently was sent a 1/350 GORCH FOCK (The German Sail Training Ship) Boy is this little ship neat !! Well gotta go .(a 1/96 scale Suite of directors , cats and radars awaits ).  Keep up the great work !! ---tankerbuilder
  • Member since
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  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, August 9, 2009 9:06 AM

Vagabond,

I am impressed, especially by how quickly you work to attain such results!  I am working on my own small model (1/600 scale HMS Shannon) but I am only in the opening stages.  I really like your work!

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
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Posted by EPinniger on Sunday, August 9, 2009 10:46 AM

You're making a very nice job of this old kit! You look to have a lot of skill at working with these small-scale sailing ship models; I try and stick to 1/200 scale and larger, I find rigging in particular hard enough even then.

Will you be scratchbuilding the transom/stern gallery detail? This appears to be blank on the kit, rather like the old Airfix small-scale kits (in these, you usually got a printed paper sticker to put on the stern; I think some of their galleon kits, like the Revenge, also had printed stickers for the decorative painting on the upper works)

  • Member since
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  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Sunday, August 9, 2009 4:57 PM

Hello EP!

The model has a stern gallery molded separately, albeit simple. However, it is usable.

After the eyestraining events of building that Santa Maria (and I still have an Airfix HMS Revenge in the bubble packaging), I may be moving on up to larger models, though not huge; this Bounty is actually about twice the scale I used to build. But, there are plenty of models out there, plastic or otherwise, between 1/100 - 1/200 scales, so shouldn't be too hard a transition.

I also prefer to work with so-called "dogs", ie bad kits. There's a reason for this. For me, the kit is just a box full of material. If enough of the kit is usable (the basic hull shape, for instance), then I'll improvise the rest with wood, styrene, ample amounts of putty and glue. Some kits cannot be salvaged. Many of the Pyro ships fall into this category; either the detail is too coarse for the scale (their USS Constitution, HMS Victory or Flying Cloud) the proportions are horribly wrong (Half Moon, Golden Hind, Brig and sadly their Saint Louis) or they are simply fantasy designs that seem to ignore basic shipbuilding tenets (Ark Royal).

But there are a number of Pyro kits that have great potential, if you ignore the molded plastic sails. Here's my list from personal experience - 

Good (some work needed for corrections but overall decent) - 

  1. Revenge
  2. Charles W. Morgan (as restored with ship rig; currently an Academy kit)
  3. Cutty Sark (Academy)
  4. USS Constellation (as restored in the 1950's-1960's as a frigate, which it is not)
  5. Mayflower 
  6. Sovereign of the Seas (currently Lindberg's Blackbeard)
  7. Gouda
  8. Bomb Ketch
  9. Gotta Lejon (though a lack of historical information has me wondering)
  10. Joseph Conrad
  11. Skipjack
  12. Fishing Schooner

Fair (some plastic surgery may be needed; be prepared to break out the tools and putty) -

  1. Santa Catarina (upper works need to be reduced; hours of sawing gave satisfactory results. X-Acto's stock soared during this project, I believe)
  2. Spanish Galleon (same as above, though smaller, and if cut to waterline)
  3. Santa Maria (1892 Duro replica. Also best cut to waterline with new deck and details)
  4. Bounty (bow and stern; now a Lindberg kit)
  5. HMS Victory (be prepared to sand, file and wreck numerous tools; coarse detail. Currently Lindberg)
  6. Constitution (same as above)
  7. Flying Cloud (ditto)
Bad (hulls are too round, or they are mishapened things that are best tossed or used for older ships, though scratchbuilding would certainly be easier) -
  1. Golden Hind (round)
  2. Brig (round)
  3. Half Moon (round)
  4. Ark Royal (so much potential, so horribly done)
  5. Nina (d'Albertis version; widest beam too far astern)
  6. Pinta (ditto, and ditto)
"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
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  • From: istanbul/Turkey
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Monday, August 10, 2009 9:20 AM

 Vagabond_Astronomer wrote:
Santa Catarina (upper works need to be reduced; hours of sawing gave satisfactory results. X-Acto's stock soared during this project, I believe)

Greetings VA, I admired your improvisation of this promising little kit. I also have Santa Catarina and just like you, realised the need to reduce upperworks; though I'm not sure about up to where these should be cut. May you post photos of your Santa Catarina if possible please ?

Cheers

Don't surrender the ship !
  • Member since
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  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Monday, August 10, 2009 9:34 AM

I wish I still had the Santa Catarina; through a number of moves and personal misfortunes, that model is long gone (in fact, I had barely completed the hullwork when it was lost). In fact, most of my model ship collection was lost (but oddly, I still have most of my space models, which quite frankly I barely touch and had planeed to use primarily for teaching. Alas, another story).

The way I went about it was to take the wonderful side elevation of the Santa Catarina found in Landstrom's "The Ship" and photocopy it to the correct scale for the kit. If I'm not mistaken, each of the upper levels was reduced 1/8" (3mm) or so, but that project dates back to 1994-1998. The strips that were removed weretaken from the bottom of each section, strip styrene used on the inside to shore up the work. Ditto for the inner bulwarks.

The hull was then assembled. and any additional work done. I did paint the decks and inside of the gunwales prior to hull construction. And that's where the story ends.

Of 30 plus model ships I had from the 1980's through the 1990's, five survived, all kits. The others I had to either find homes for (kits or better made models; some went to the local maritime museum but are now sadly in storage), or were lost through a series of personal misfortunes. My spacecraft model collection only survived due to the fact that most of them were unbuilt and took turns being stored at friends or simply packed. 

Now, I've reached a point where I want most of those space models to go away and get back to ship modeling.

Sorry, didn't mean to wax nostaligic there...

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
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Posted by EPinniger on Monday, August 10, 2009 9:55 AM

Interesting to hear your assessment of the old Pyro kits! I have several of the larger-scale ones including the Santa Catarina, Bomb Ketch and Skipjack (some of these are reviewed on my webpage). Acquiring Landstrom's "Sailing Ships" book has given me thoughts of building the Santa Catarina as my next sailing ship project, though fixing the upper works is a rather intimidating prospect.

Another one to add to your list,  probably in the "good" category though I'm not totally sure of its accuracy, is the 1/200 scale USS Alliance, a late 19th century training ship converted from an 1870s steam gunboat. This was released around the same time as the Joseph Conrad, the detail is fairly decent but there are some odd features, notably all of the hatches on the hull sides being filled with "dummy" gun barrels! I have this one in my stash and will add a review to my site in future.

Others I know of (but have never seen out of the box) are the Dutch Staten Jacht, Persian Gulf Trader, Venetian Carrack, La Reale, and the St.Louis (now sold by Lindberg as "Henry Morgan's pirate ship").

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Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Monday, August 10, 2009 9:56 AM
I'm really sorry to hear about your ship model collection :/ Finding enough showspace seems to be a real trouble that all shipmodelers share. Actually, what is the scale of Pyro Santa Catarina ? I always tought it to be around 1/150. Am I correct ?
Don't surrender the ship !
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  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Monday, August 10, 2009 9:57 AM

In an interesting side note...

 While looking up something else (unlrelated to ships), I came across an image of Disneyland's "Columbia". Such a nice looking ship, based on the Columbia Rediviva, the first American ship to saill around the world, 1787. I was curious about the ship and decided to investigate a little more. 

Turns out that this ship replica is also based on plans for the Bounty.

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
  • Member since
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  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Monday, August 10, 2009 9:59 AM

 kapudan_emir_effendi wrote:
I'm really sorry to hear about your ship model collection :/ Finding enough showspace seems to be a real trouble that all shipmodelers share. Actually, what is the scale of Pyro Santa Catarina ? I always tought it to be around 1/150. Am I correct ?

That's about right, somewhere in the range between 1/144 - 1/160, if I recall.

As for my lost collection, I owned a house at the time, had a room set up as my study, had plenty of space at the time. I sorely miss that.

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
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  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, August 10, 2009 10:54 AM

This is going to be a really remarkable model - a true case of a silk purse being made out of a sow's ear.  I'll be most interested to watch its progress.

I have to admit to being something of a nut on the subject of this ship.  Quite a long time ago I put quite a bit of time into a model of her:  http://www.hmsvictoryscalemodels.be/JohnTilleyBounty/index.html .

We had an interesting discussion of Bounty kits - including this one - here in the Forum just a little while ago.  Here's a link to the thread:  /forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1146621 .

Vagabond_Astronomer's photos leave no room for doubt:  the two old, small-scale products we were talking about in that thread (for the sake of simplicity let's call them "Lindberg/Revell" and "Pyro/Lifelike/Lindberg") are two completely different kits.  An additional difference becomes obvious:  the Pyro/Lifelike/Lindberg one has a representation (though not a very good one) of the copper sheathing.  (The real Bounty quite definitely was copper-sheathed - a point that's escaped all the other manufacturers except Airfix.)  The "plates" are ridiculously oversized, and the raised lines delineating them aren't particularly convincing - but at least the company tried.

I will take the liberty of offering one suggestion (which would take a few seconds to implement now - but would be problematic at a later point in the project).  The "pinrails" molded integrally with the hull at the bow are bogus.  The Admiralty drawings of the ship make it clear that there simply was no fiferail or anything similar near the ship's foremast.  (The photos of my model show the solution I came up with for belaying the fore rigging; I can't prove it's right, but it's consistent with contemporary practice.

In the unlikely event that anybody's interested, here's a link to another web discussion in which I participated a few years back:  http://forum.drydockmodels.com/viewtopic.php? .f=10&t=1339&hilit=+Some+info+about+the+Bounty .  There's a fair amount of useful information for modelers in that thread.  (I apologize for the yellow highlighting of certain words.  It apparently got put there when I was doing a search for the thread - and I can't figure out how to get rid of it.)

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Monday, August 10, 2009 8:49 PM
 jtilley wrote:

This is going to be a really remarkable model - a true case of a silk purse being made out of a sow's ear.  I'll be most interested to watch its progress.

Thank you, sir!

 jtilley wrote:

Vagabond_Astronomer's photos leave no room for doubt:  the two old, small-scale products we were talking about in that thread (for the sake of simplicity let's call them "Lindberg/Revell" and "Pyro/Lifelike/Lindberg") are two completely different kits.  An additional difference becomes obvious:  the Pyro/Lifelike/Lindberg one has a representation (though not a very good one) of the copper sheathing.

What hurts is that there was an original Lindberg kit on eBay last week. I was in no position to buy it, but alas, I already had this kit, so...

 jtilley wrote:

(The real Bounty quite definitely was copper-sheathed - a point that's escaped all the other manufacturers except Airfix.)  The "plates" are ridiculously oversized, and the raised lines delineating them aren't particularly convincing - but at least the company tried.

I'm not sure if I want to do the coppering, to be honest. Not from a lack of experience, mind you, but this model looks so nice right now wearing the colors of a typical English ship of the late 18th century. One that wasn't coppered, mind you.

 jtilley wrote:

I will take the liberty of offering one suggestion (which would take a few seconds to implement now - but would be problematic at a later point in the project).  The "pinrails" molded integrally with the hull at the bow are bogus.  The Admiralty drawings of the ship make it clear that there simply was no fiferail or anything similar near the ship's foremast.  (The photos of my model show the solution I came up with for belaying the fore rigging; I can't prove it's right, but it's consistent with contemporary practice.

I've always wondered about those. I removed them from my 1988 version, but was never sure. Your solution looks rather plausible (damned Admiralty; did they not take into consideration the needs of model builders two centuries hence?). They will be removed.

Thanks for all the advice. Interestingly, this model has charged to the front of my project list; it has proven to be a fun project. My Santa Maria needs to wait until I decide how it is going to be displayed, as this plays a big part in how it will be finished. 

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
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  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:01 AM

Bow and stern are basically complete. The headrails took quite a bit of work. They are not quite accurate, but they'll do.

 

 The stern gallery came out okay, but not pleased with the windows. Going to replace the insert and windows, certainly. There is also a seam down the rudder that I somehow missed.

 

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
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  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Friday, August 21, 2009 10:55 PM
After much consternation and experimentation, I decided it is simply best to just paint the copper onto the hull. I tried to scribe some vinyl sheet for the purpose, didn't work. Option #2, using foil, simply seemed like too much work on too flimsy a material. So, opted for painting. Going to experiment, though, on making plates.
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Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:58 AM

More work done on the deck. A tiller was added, as is that little structure over it. The ships wheel was also improved a little bit.

 

 Going to be moving on to the rest of the deck fittings. I suspect that the ship's boat is going to be a model in itself at this point.

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Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Friday, August 28, 2009 2:28 PM

More deck furniture; here we see the main mast's fife rail.

 

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Posted by Mikeym_us on Friday, August 28, 2009 4:07 PM
 Vagabond_Astronomer wrote:

3. I would use as much of the kit's material as possible, including the masts. However, I would correct the sail plan (the one the kit comes with is based on the 1962 Lunenburg built replica (which is much larger than the real vessel, for filming purposes). 

I believe that was the same ship used in the filming of the 1970's version of Mutiney on the Bounty with Mel Gibson right? I saw the ship when I was at work a couple years back going through the locks at work (I work at the St. Mary's falls canal locks "Soo Locks" In Sault Ste. Marie).

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Posted by jtilley on Friday, August 28, 2009 11:06 PM

The Bounty replicas built for the Marlon Brando (1962) and Mel Gibson (1984) movies are different ships.  The Marlon Brando version is indeed longer than the original - the extra length being incorporated as a means of accommodating the Cinemascope cameras and Mr. Brando's ego.  It deviated from reality in many respects - the deck furniture, the absence of the little water closet on the quarterdeck, and the configuration of the windlass, among many others.  And, for some reason I've never seen explained, the movie people decided to paint it blue.  (Quite a few artistic renderings of the Bounty made since then have given her a blue hull.  I've never seen any historical justification for that color scheme - or any picture of a blue Bounty prior to the builing of the replica.  Blue paint did exist in the eighteenth century; I suppose it's conceivable that she did have a blue hull.  But I'm not aware of any documentary justification for it.  And I know of no artistic rendering of her with a blue hull that wasn't painted after the movie came out.)

That ship (which I tend to think of as "the blue Bounty" has been in quite a few other flicks, including the Charlton Heston version of Treasure Island and, I believe, at least one of the "Pirates of the Caribbean" movies.

The Mel Gibson one was built (apparently in quite a bit of a hurry) with, as I understand it, a steel hull sheathed in wood.  It actually looks pretty good in the movie, to my eye at least - the biggest deviation being the bright white (obviously synthetic) running rigging.  Apparently the people responsible for the design of this one had at least some idea of how to replicate a real ship.  On the other hand - as we've established earlier, there are two sets of contemporary plans for the Bounty.  This replica obviously was based on the wrong one: the one drawn before the Bethia's conversion to carry breadfruit plants.  Hence the absence of the water closet, among other things - and the fact that a copy of the wrong inboard/outboard profile is hanging on the bulkhead next to Anthony Hopkins's desk.

I haven't heard much about that most recent replica lately.  When I was in San Francisco in 1984 I remember seeing an item in the local paper to the effect that the ship had been seized by the local authorities in conjunction with a drug bust; that's all I know about that story.  I think I read something fairly recently about the ship being in bad shape due to high-speed, low-cost construction methods.  I don't know whether it's still in existence or not.

For my model I used the spar dimensions that were published in the well-known article in The Mariner's Mirror, back in the thirties.  I don't remember exactly what source the author of that article was quoting, but it was an Admiralty document of some sort.  A few changes were made to the sail plan before the mutiny.  Bligh ordered the mizzen mast shortened by several feet (I don't remember the exact dimension) while she was at Capetown.  She originally carried studding sails, but Bligh concluded that the lower ones were "too long," so he "cut them and made a royal out of the canvas."  My model has the "final" spar dimensions (I was trying to represent her as she looked at the time of the mutiny).  I put the royal on the main mast, which seemed the logical place for it.  If (gawd forbid) I were doing it again, I'd probably stow the royal and its yard inside the main topmast shrouds.  At that period it was normal for royals to be "set flying."

The lineage of Bounty kits would be an interesting study.  It's clear that this little Pyro/Lindberg version owes a good deal to the old Revell one - the grandaddy of all plastic Bounty kits and, in my opinion, still the best.  (The competition isn't exactly distinguished.)  In addition to the odd, spurious pinrails abreast the foremast, it reproduces Revell's distortion of the knee of the head.  (The real thing, as represented in the Admiralty drawings, has a subtle ess-curve in profile that Revell thoroughly botched.  So does the Pyro/Lindberg version - and that's not the sort of mistake that two people make independently.)  Yet Pyro made an attempt (albeit not a very successful one) at the copper sheathing - which Revell missed.  (That's a shame.  In that same year, 1956, Revell did a better-than-passable job with the copper sheathing of its 1/192 Constitution.)

My poor old brain remembers one other detail of the color scheme.  The Bounty had, as Bligh put it, "a pretty figurehead of a woman in riding habit."  (The original Ms. Bethia?)  The Tahitians, never having seen a European woman, found it fascinating.  Bligh noted that "I ordered it painted in colors, and they sat staring at it for hours."  That seems to imply that the figurehead was originally one color - probably white.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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Posted by tankerbuilder on Tuesday, September 1, 2009 8:02 AM
 Hi V.A. : It,s me, ye olde tankerbuilder. Hows the build going? The pics look good so far. I just wanted to interject something here, concerning your comments on other ships in this venerable line . The "skipjack" while one of the larger ones, did have some noticable detail differences from my larger wood model. The thing I always liked about these little guys, is that even if you didn,t go to the effort you are, they were a pleasant fun build away from the hard work of a detailed, say,FLETCHER in 1/350. I have one of my remaining group sitting on my stereo in my workroom. I believe it,s supposed to be the MAYFLOWER. Based on the way she turned out ,I would say she,s more like a little fat GALLEON!She looks neat though ,andI am going to build more of them again. Thanks, my friend for the walk down " good memory" lane. Keep us posted O.K..     tankerbuilder
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Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Tuesday, September 1, 2009 10:05 PM

Hello, TB.

The project is going fine. I've had a number of other projects arise recently; I have to help a friend build three US Navy gunboats from the very early 19th century in 1/72. He builds huge dioramas. I'm doing these slightly under scale (more like 1/80) so they don't take up as much space (model railroaders call this "selective compression"). I'll probably take pics of those, but they are a pressing matter so I won't have as much time to journal their construction. 

At this point, the Bounty's deck is basically completed, however. 

 

From Pyro/Life-Like HMAV Bounty

 Also, I have a small collection of bicycles, and been pretty busy getting one of those ready to be my commuter. Suffice to say, good times.

 

Rob

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Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Saturday, September 5, 2009 7:09 PM

Gunboat project is on hold.

The local Hobby Lobby just got in a fresh shipment of copper tape. I bought the 6mm variety. Looks like I'll be coppering the hull after all.

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Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, September 6, 2009 2:28 PM

V-A,

I'm glad that you decided on copper tape!  I was reading the entire thread this morning and was about to make that recommendation.  Terrific job so far!

Bill Morrison

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Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Monday, September 7, 2009 10:11 AM

Thanks, Bill.

Going to try and get some work done on her tonight. I'll post pics, of course...

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Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Wednesday, September 9, 2009 12:11 AM

Aside from a little trimming, the coppering is done.

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 It's not perfect, but considering the size of this model, as well as its vintage, it is a real improvement.

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Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:01 PM

WOW!  Nice coppering!

Bill Morrison

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Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:05 PM
Thank you!
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Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:44 PM

VA,

I believe that you are showing us just what can be accomplished even with a poor kit.  Your work is exceptional!

Bill Morrison

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Posted by Mikeym_us on Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:09 PM
 Vagabond_Astronomer wrote:

Aside from a little trimming, the coppering is done.

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 It's not perfect, but considering the size of this model, as well as its vintage, it is a real improvement.

Now you have to weather the copper as on a sea going vessel of that period it would discolor to a bluish green hue due to the salt water. But the coppering you put on would look brand new when it was installed in the shipyard.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

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