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Wonder about the thinking of american plastic model companies

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  • Member since
    August 2008
Wonder about the thinking of american plastic model companies
Posted by tankerbuilder on Saturday, August 8, 2009 8:55 PM
 Hi ,everyone ,especially shipbuilders. Have you ever wanted to be a fly on the wall at the marketing meetings of the model companies here in the good old U.S.A.??? I don,t think 20% of them have the knowledge to be there . I don,t think another 40% have ever attended a model show or asked at a show what the ship modeler really wants .I don,t think any of the industrys bean counters EVER listened to the input from customers.I don,t think that the AMERICAN PLASTICS INDUSTRY (EXCEPT A FEW ) care what they market .They , the other40% have given the market over to the FOREIGN companies . The reasoning is always the same .The general public that builds these won,t buy enough to justify the cost .This is pure BULL !! .90% of what carries an AMERICAN label is plainly marked MOLDED IN CHINA !!! This is in cars ,planes and ships . The industry has completely ignored the proud ships of late ww2 and korea and yes viet nam too . The plastics industry in JAPAN ,CHINA ,POLAND etc seem to read this and are actively vying for our dollar . Why aren,t our companies doing that . Who knows , but I won,t hold my breath . Now where did I put that TRUMPETER ,BUCKLEY CLASS DE ????  TANKERBUILDER
  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: SLC, Ut.
Posted by Batosi420 on Sunday, August 9, 2009 3:34 AM

Hi.

Your 1000% right, but keep breathing.

Here's the truth.

Most americans think plastic models are no more than childerns toys.  Their I said it. 

Think about it. When was the last time you told another adult (NOT a builder) you made plastic models??  Did they suddenly have a kinda dismisive attitude like "Oh those kid things", 'cause I know I've experience it many times. In Europe and Asia it's just taken more seriously than in the States, it's seen as more of a art form than childs play(waste of time).

This kid stuff attitude comes from the US manufacturers (Monogram, Revell, Lindberg, etc...) as well, just look at the kits they make.  Compaired to kits from Japan/China, US kits look sloppy and unrefined.  More like toys. Reason is they (US makers) are aiming for the child market in sales so they don't want to make the kits so complicated kids can't build'em, or so expensive kids can't/won't buy'em.  Theirs a reason US makers invented SNAP-TITE kits and All-in-One simple kits with paint and glue included.

Now if you want to get mad about something how about the AMOUNT of foreign kits that NEVER GET HERE!!  I have several friends, mostly ex-navy, who tell me stories about the hobby stores in Japan/Hong Kong and how their are "Asian market only releases".  Ever anime cartoon series in Japan has it's own model tie-ins.

Ever heard of a Gundam??  If you have then your 1up on most.

It's a cartoon show about giant robots. It's been on Japanese TV for years now and theirs also several full length movies, and ever time a new show or movie debuts EVERY robot has it's own model to go with it.  Their has to be close to 1000 kits by now, no lie.  Just go over to ebay sometime, type in "Gundam" and see what you get.  Here in Salt Lake theirs only 3 hobby stores, and just 2 carry any of the Gundam kits at all and pickins is slim.Banged Head [banghead]

Anyway, like I first wrote your 1000% right and only a fellow "kit killer" knows it and can sympathize.

-Ray

"Artificial Inteligence is No match for Natural Stupidity" -Woody Paige

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Sunday, August 9, 2009 8:05 AM

Having worked in the hobby business as well as being a hobbyist, I can tell you that there is more to this. For many hobby shops, plastic kits are no longer a big money item. The big money items are what most of the LHS's in my city push, primarily RC. The American manufacturers really haven't innovated recently as well. I was hoping that since Revell-o-Gram's recent acquisition by a major player in the hobby industry that they might do something exciting. Instead, the American company that's suddenly doing something interesting is, of all things, Lindberg!

The owners of the kit manufacturers are gravely concerned about the bottom line. Tooling kits takes money, and they seem to be loath to want to provide the infusion of funds necessary to do so. Instead, their strategy is to aim at what seems popular without trying to simply popularize the hobby itself; look at all the "pirate" ship kits out there (most of which are based upon right proper model ships). Instead, the manufacturers (who are really mostly importers these days) aim for the fast return, and lately their marketing strategies are truly scattered. With the big box department stores no longer carrying kits, they are in even more of a quandry. Most kids (which are the key to the industry) don't visit hobby shops the way those of us in our 40's and up did. 

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, August 9, 2009 9:50 AM

Batosi420 notes that "most Americans" think of plastic model kits as products for children.  He's probably right.  But if most Americans do think that they're wrong.

Over the past thirty years or thereabouts, plastic scale modeling has, for better or worse, become almost exclusively an adult hobby.  Olde Phogies like me can remember when just about every kid (well, ok, just about every male kid) built models, at least occasionally.  Dr. Thomas Graham's fine book on the history of Revell observes that, from the mid-fifties through the mid-sixties (or thereabouts), model building was the leading leisure time activity for American boys. They bought kits not only in hobby shops but in department stores, drug stores, and even groceries.  To quote Dr. Graham (p. 35):  "The typical eight- to fifteen-year-old American boy could hop on his bike, ride to the neighborhood Woolworth, and check out the newest assortment of kits sitting on the hobby shelves beside the toy department.  If he was lucky, he could speed on to the hobby shop just around the corner with a larger kit selection, where he could check out the array of built models in the display case.  A few minutes later, back at home in his room, he enjoyed the supreme pleasures of popping open the box, smelling the aroma of fresh plastic, sorting through the shiny plastic parts, and imagining what the model would look like when it was assembled.  A few years later, when he reached the mature age of sixteen and discovered the dual attractions of girls and cars, plasic model building would suddenly become very un-cool.  But until then, making and collecting models absorbed the after school creative energies of legions of adolescent boys."

Those days are gone - and they've been gone for a long time.  The entire landscape of modeling has changed.  The twelve-year-old modeler has just about disappeared.  (A couple of years ago I asked a hobby shop owner friend of mine how many of his regular customers were under the age of twenty.  He laughed bitterly and said, "zero.")  The local hobby shop is, except (maybe) in major metropolitan areas, well on its way to extinction.  The prices of kits have risen astronomically - a great deal faster than inflation.  (I can remember when I could buy an airplane kit at the drugstore for 29 cents, and the Revell Cutty Sark, at $10.00 was the most expensive kit on the market.  Nowadays it's not unusual for a 1/72 fighter to cost more than $10.00.)  The plastic sailing ship is almost dead.  (Revell of the U.S. hasn't issued a new one since 1977.  The company has been out of the sailing ship genre considerably longer than it was in it.)  The Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese have taken over a big percentage of the market.  (Even bigger, if we count the kits with American and European labels that are actually produced in Asia.) 

The other day my wife and I paid a visit to the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum, in Washington.  Longtime fans of that museum will remember that the gift shop on the second floor used to look like a great big hobby shop.  Dozens of kids could be seen running around with shrink-wrapped boxes in their hands, begging their parents for money.  At least one company, Revell, was marketing a "Smithsonian Series" of kits.

As of three days ago the Air and Space Museum was stocking exactly one plastic model kit:  the old Monogram Wright Flyer.  And I didn't see a single visitor pick one up and look at it.

I saw something similar a couple of years ago at Mystic Seaport.  Its gift shop used to have a pretty sizable model department.  When I was there most recently, in 2007, I was able to find two kits:  the old Lindberg Bismarck and Hood.  They looked like they'd been there a long time.  No sailing ships - and no wood kits whatever (despite Model Shipways' promotion of its Charles W. Morgan and Emma C. Berry as "official kits of Mystic Seaport).

The people who run those gift shops know what they're doing.  They don't stock models because they've learned, the hard way, that visitors don't buy them.

There are lots of reasons for the demise of the youthful modeler:  the rise in kit prices, the popularity of computer games, etc., etc.  This Forum is full of profound analyses of the problem.  (I happen to think another factor is the miserable state of kids' knowledge of, and interest in, history.  A substantial percentage of the college freshmen who are going to start doing battle with me in three weeks won't be able to name two countries the U.S. was fighting in World War II and won't know whether the U.S. supported the North or the South in Vietnam.)Whatever the reasons, the bottom line is that the goode olde dayes are gone - and they aren't coming back. 

It's easy for the modern model enthusiast to sink into woe and gloom.  A number of other things deserve to be noted as well, though.

As the prices of the kits have gone up, so has the average level of quality.  It's tempting to get nostalgic about the quality of kits in the olde dayes, and some of them were indeed masterpieces of the kit designer's and moldmaker's art.  But the average kit that shows up in the hobby shop (sorry, on the hobby dealer's website) in 2009 is a far more sophisticated product than its counterpart of forty years ago.

The decline of the local hobby shop has been accompanied by the rise of the internet hobby dealer.  Every modeler now has relatively easy access to thousands of kits from all over the world.  (I can remember when the rack of Airfix airplanes in plastic bags at the downtown hobby shop in Columbus, Ohio represented the ultimate in exoticism.) 

The range of subject matter, though still not as broad as Tankerbuilder and I would like it to be, has similarly expanded.  Yes, there are some gaps in it.  (In the sailing ship field, the gaps are bigger than the coverage.)  But I can remember when the only Japanese warship kit available in the U.S. was the Aurora Yamato.

The "aftermarket" for plastic kits, to all intents and purposes, didn't exist thirty years ago.  Now we have access (if we can afford it) to literally thousands of styrene, resin, cast metal, and photo-etched metal parts that modelers in those days could only dream about.   (Remember when it was taken for granted that warship guardrails and radar screens simply couldn't be reproduced on 1/700 scale?)  And as of a few minutes ago, Pacific Front Hobbies listed 1235 different resin ship kits.  That surely exceeds the total number of plastic ship kits that were available from all sources forty years ago. 

The sources of information available these days are far more numerous, detailed, and accessible than they used to be.  I can remember being utterly fascinated by the articles in a long-deceased rag called Scale Modeler (good riddance) and the delightful little Airfix Magazine, when those were just about the only periodicals targeting the non-operating model enthusiast.  (Flying model airplanes and working boats were another matter.)  Today you can find a book on just about any aircraft type or warship class you can think of, and find out about virtually any detail of your subject - in many cases without spending any money (because the material is available on the web).  There was a time when we all assumed that "battleship grey" (Testor's glossy #18) was the right color for any model warship.  Nowadays there are premixed authentic colors (not as many, admittedly, as the aircraft and armor folks have at their disposal), shelves of books and magazine articles to tell you how to use them, and dozens of people waiting enthusiastically on websites like this one to skewer you if you get any of those colors "wrong." 

There are even some positive signs in my own favorite segment of the hobby, sailing ships.  I personally think the plastic sailing ship market is just about dead and unlikely to be brought back to life.  (That's another subject for discussion; I hope I'm wrong.)  But companies like Model Shipways, Bluejacket, and Calder/Jotika have been doing some interesting things -branching out into new subject areas and making ingenious use of new materials and technology.  Those firms are small, but some of the bigger HECEPOB (that's Hideously Expensive Continental European Plank-On-Bulkhead) companies look as though they may be seeing the light as well.  And in the 53 years I've been in the hobby the library of good books on sailing ship models and technology has grown from the dozens to the hundreds.

Will the "big" American plastic kit companies (which actually don't seem to be so big any more) ever get back into scale ships seriously?  I hope so, but I'm inclined to doubt it.  There are just too many market forces working against them.  So for the time being, at least, the American adult scale ship modeler has several options.  One - be patriotic, refuse to buy foreign merchandise, and start looking for another hobby.  Two - take up scratchbuilding.  Three - concentrate on wood and/or resin kits.  (Enough of them are made in the U.S. to keep a modeler busy for quite a few years.)  Four - swallow your patriotic instincts, buy at least a few of those products from overseas (you can use American-made aftermarket parts, tools, and materials), and enjoy the fact that you're living in a golden age of ship modeling.    

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2005
Posted by caramonraistlin on Sunday, August 9, 2009 12:17 PM

Jtilley:

Greetings:

I'm just curious about your comment of "good riddance" to the magazine Scale Modeler. I bought those for years when they were pretty much the only game in town. I always found them to be pretty helpful especially in the days befor the internet. It was the only place I could see what future releases were going to be and where else I could buy models mail order besides the Squadron Shop (I used to order from them when they were in Michigan before they moved to Texas). Where I live (upstate N.Y., Rome/Utica area) hobby shops were few and far between. Do you know something I'm not aware of? Like I said I'm just curious that's all.

Sincerely

Michael Lacey 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, August 9, 2009 6:50 PM

This topic has been much discussed throughout the years on this forum.  I have been continuing to write letters to the manufacturers lobbying for an improvement in the plastic sailing ship situation, all of whom have been saying essentially the same thing, "We'll consider it."  However, John Tilley is correct that we are in a golden age for ship modeling with all of the new kits being released, the advent of resin kits, the significantly higher standards in accuracy and detail, etc.

Please, if you are concerned about the lack of interest on the part of the manufacturers, write to them!  The more letters they get, the more they can see our concerns and act upon them. Searches on any search engine will lead you to their addresses.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 9, 2009 10:59 PM
 jtilley wrote:

Over the past thirty years or thereabouts, plastic scale modeling has, for better or worse, become almost exclusively an adult hobby.  

You got that right.  I get so tired of people here, and other places, wringing their hands every time they feel as though someone has "run off" a young person from modelling because they weren't handled with "kid gloves" in the Forum.  What will be interesting, is when the last of us "old-timers" move on over the next 20 years or so. Will the US market collapse???

Let's face it, this hobby has evolved into an adult hobby that requires adult funding... 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, August 10, 2009 2:30 AM

caramonraistlin wrote:  "I'm just curious about your comment of "good riddance" to the magazine Scale Modeler. I bought those for years when they were pretty much the only game in town. I always found them to be pretty helpful especially in the days befor the internet. It was the only place I could see what future releases were going to be and where else I could buy models mail order besides the Squadron Shop (I used to order from them when they were in Michigan before they moved to Texas). Where I live (upstate N.Y., Rome/Utica area) hobby shops were few and far between. Do you know something I'm not aware of? Like I said I'm just curious that's all."

As a matter of fact I did have a couple of bad personal experiences with Scale Modeler and its parent company, Challenge Publications.  This isn't an appropriate place to go into those - and the memories are mighty old now; there's no point in dredging them up.  Suffice to say that I was among the many modelers who came to have pretty low opinions of that magazine.  It was notorious, for example, for giving glowing reviews to products that were featured in full-page ads (frequently in the middle of the review article), and the standards of workmanship and accuracy in the featured models were, to say the least, extremely variable.  SM's coverage of ship modeling was particularly weak.  There were also widespread rumors that Challenge Publications was primarily a front for - well, I'd better stop there.

On the other hand, caramonraistlin is absolutely right:  for a long time SM was the only game in town.  It certainly encouraged lots of people - including me - to get seriously interested in the hobby.  And it published the first article by me that ever got published.  (I submitted that rather juvenile effort when I was in high school; they published it when I was in grad school, by which time the model in question looked pretty pitiful to me.) 

SM also spawned another magazine, Scale Ship Modeler.  That one, to my notion, got off to a mediocre start, but its quality went up astronomically when Loren Perry (aka Gold Medal Models) became the editor.  Under his leadership, SSM became one of the better publications in the ship modeling world.  Mr. Perry, unfortunately, departed (rather suddenly, and without explanation, as I recall); SSM's quality went down quite a bit after that, and it wasn't long before it ceased publication completely.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2005
Posted by caramonraistlin on Monday, August 10, 2009 5:57 AM

Jtilley:

Thank you for your reply. I had heard rumors from others also about Challenge publishing. What you said makes perfect sense. I never really noticed some of the things you mentioned. I was just happy at the time to buy a magazine about modeling. I was also less discriminating perhaps naive in my younger days than I am now.

Sincerely

 

Michael Lacey 

 

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Sarasota, FL
Posted by RedCorvette on Monday, August 10, 2009 6:34 AM

A couple of comments:

  • The relatively lower cost of manufacturing is a major factor in driving so much of the kit manufacturing to Asia.  It's not unlike other "American" companies like Nike or Hewlett Packard who manufacture their products overseas.  From a cyclist's perspective, Cannondale and Trek used to tout themselves as "Made in the USA", in spite of the fact that they now source frames Korea and have long sourced their shifters and other components from Japan (in fact even Japanese icon Shimano outsources much of its production to lesser-developed Asian neighbors).  It's all driven by economics and the cost of manufacturing. 
  • Scale Modeler was basically a gallery-type publication, light on technique or "how-to" content.  The quality of the models featured were at time questionable.  Late in their run, they would blatantly re-run articles from previous issues.  A member of my former club submitted an article that was published several times - and  he was never paid.  I remember how estatic I was when I saw the charter issue of FSM - it was like night and day. 

Mark

FSM Charter Subscriber

  • Member since
    January 2004
Posted by Captain Morgan on Monday, August 10, 2009 12:20 PM

I too have trouble admitting I make plastic models to adults. If they dont do it they dont get it.

I believe the plastic model makers need to produce kits for kids and adults. They need to create simple models so kids just dont get frustrated and instead keep there attention on the kit. Hopefully the will stay with the hobby, slowly build their skills to go on to create realistic models as an adult. We as adults should encourage kids to participate in the hobby. Its too easy to push our kids in front of a TV and let them play video games. I belive we shuld encourage their imagination. We could spend $40 on a game or we could $10-20 on a model for them.

I do remember as a kid spending my chore money to get models. I would ride my bike to the hobby store and pick out some model and some paint. Kids cant freely move around like that anymore, at least not here, plus there very few hobby stores.

As for myself I started with planes and tanks and now read mostly about ships on this forum. I have a Blue Jacket USS Olympia and am hesitant to start it. Do you think that the skill building a shipp is harder than tanks or planes? If so, I could be wrong, but if sales drives the market then I could see companies not putting to much effort in ships. I wonder what percentage companies devote to ships?

After reading and seeing all the pictures of ships the members have produced it has made me want to build them. As you can see I dont post that much because I am more of a reader but ships in general has a lot of oppurtunity to grow.

Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die: Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred

  • Member since
    May 2008
Posted by tucchase on Monday, August 10, 2009 1:23 PM
 jtilley wrote:

SM also spawned another magazine, Scale Ship Modeler.  That one, to my notion, got off to a mediocre start, but its quality went up astronomically when Loren Perry (aka Gold Medal Models) became the editor.  Under his leadership, SSM became one of the better publications in the ship modeling world.  Mr. Perry, unfortunately, departed (rather suddenly, and without explanation, as I recall); SSM's quality went down quite a bit after that, and it wasn't long before it ceased publication completely.

I also was an avid reader of SSM and I was sorry to see Loren leave as the quality of the magazine went very quickly downhill.  I wasn't surprised when he left as I was expecting it after his comments in print in SSM accused Tom's Modelworks of having copied his GMM Photo-etch products for their new line.  Within one or two months he was gone, to devote full time to GMM.  Never heard any more about the matter and both companies are very successful with excellent products.  Loren was first out with photo-etch for ships (I believe), and Tom was quick to see the advantages and thought he could do it better.  Plus, Tom's had the resin Arizona to match their photo-etch with.  I believe Loren was surprised to have such good competition so quickly, and he responded badly at the time.  I think FSM started about then but I didn't see it on the shelves for their first year or so, but I was very glad to find something even better to replace my beloved SSM, which had turned to crap before my eyes.  Just my take on an old subject.

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: Lamarque,Texas
Posted by uspsjuan on Monday, August 10, 2009 4:51 PM
hellow all, i'm not sure i completly agree with the statement about other adults reaction to ones model building. i often tell other adults of my hobby.i also tell them that i find it more rewarding to build a subject for someone rather than for myself,and do they have anything they would like to have done. most non-modelers are suprised to find out how many hours actually go into producing a quality scale model. try this approach and see if the reaction is not different
  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:35 PM
 MR TILLEY : I do believe you are very correct . The building of a model ,any model has got to be a pleasure to the builder . I for one ,remember cleaning out a fountain where older boys would use b.b.guns to sink their models . I ,a tender youth of twelve saw a ship in the sludge as the water drained . I approached the service station owner thusly . "Sir : I will clean out your fountain every other week if I can have any model I find "Therin started an eerily fascinating tale of Glue, Typing paper And TESTORS Light Grey paint And their gloss black dulled with talcum powder . My father traveled in his business and except the housekeeper I had no other adult supervision . (my teacher was an exception , she lived right down the block ) Dad returned from an extended trip to something like nine countries in two months . He was greeted by the WHOLE REVELL NAVAL And CIVILIAN ARMADA and some that didn,t even exist then . He was needless to say dumbfounded . He asked calmly  "Whera you getta de money for thisa stuff ?" When I told him ,he verified it with the station owner and the housekeeper . I got to go to a hobby shop!!! A brand new kit all my own!!! TANKERBUILDERS START
  • Member since
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  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:04 PM

I freely admit that I build ship models. In fact, I have built them for many of my friends and they have been received very enthusiastically.  As a History Teacher, I also sponsor a model building club after school; the club has 45 student members that build all types of plastic models. Being an urban school in Hartford, CT, there are charitable organizations that provide the kits and supplies.  I believe there is hope for the future of this hobby!

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    May 2006
Posted by thunder1 on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:04 AM
If my memory serves me, Mr. Perry exited Scale Ship Modeler over editorial content. At that time, 1993, the SSM publisher decided that a change in format was in order to increase magazine sales. The magazine up to that point was exclusivly a scratch built/kit built forum. (The content centered around static built and R/C built ships and boats).  All articles dealt with classic naval/sail/commercial type models as well as radios and ship fittings. Then came the reworked format to include GAS powered boats and all their associated fuels, motors and noise. Like many subscribers, I enjoyed SSM features on "classic" prototypes, be it a battleship, clipper ship or just a plain old rowboat. Suddenly the mag morphed into an modeling abomination, serious ship folk had no interest in "motorized tongue depressors" screaming around the local pond with no more detail on their boats than a self propelled cardboard box. The outcry was heard in the publishers office, the new format was cancelled after two issues. Still, Mr.Perry had left the magazine, and many folk never renewed their subscriptions. The mag continued to soldier on but with many more "recycled" articles from previous editions finally "sinking" from poor circulation and lack of direction. Ship model magazines are a hard row to hoe, consider all the publications that come and go without notice(Model Ship Journal comes to mind). Still I surmise SSM would have been served better if Loren had stayed on.Wink [;)]   
  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: Des Moines IA.
Posted by Jeebus on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:34 AM
 Batosi420 wrote:

Hi.

Your 1000% right, but keep breathing.

Here's the truth.

Most americans think plastic models are no more than childerns toys.  Their I said it. 

Think about it. When was the last time you told another adult (NOT a builder) you made plastic models??  Did they suddenly have a kinda dismisive attitude like "Oh those kid things", 'cause I know I've experience it many times. In Europe and Asia it's just taken more seriously than in the States, it's seen as more of a art form than childs play(waste of time).

This kid stuff attitude comes from the US manufacturers (Monogram, Revell, Lindberg, etc...) as well, just look at the kits they make.  Compaired to kits from Japan/China, US kits look sloppy and unrefined.  More like toys. Reason is they (US makers) are aiming for the child market in sales so they don't want to make the kits so complicated kids can't build'em, or so expensive kids can't/won't buy'em.  Theirs a reason US makers invented SNAP-TITE kits and All-in-One simple kits with paint and glue included.

Now if you want to get mad about something how about the AMOUNT of foreign kits that NEVER GET HERE!!  I have several friends, mostly ex-navy, who tell me stories about the hobby stores in Japan/Hong Kong and how their are "Asian market only releases".  Ever anime cartoon series in Japan has it's own model tie-ins.

Ever heard of a Gundam??  If you have then your 1up on most.

It's a cartoon show about giant robots. It's been on Japanese TV for years now and theirs also several full length movies, and ever time a new show or movie debuts EVERY robot has it's own model to go with it.  Their has to be close to 1000 kits by now, no lie.  Just go over to ebay sometime, type in "Gundam" and see what you get.  Here in Salt Lake theirs only 3 hobby stores, and just 2 carry any of the Gundam kits at all and pickins is slim.Banged Head [banghead]

Anyway, like I first wrote your 1000% right and only a fellow "kit killer" knows it and can sympathize.

-Ray

The last time i told an adult that i build plastic models(Tanks), that was his response, until i took one to his store un-built still in the box, a 1/35 Dragon Tiger I w/zimmerit, after it was finished, he offered me 100.00 for it, after thinking about it fo a few i asked what he was going to do with it, and he said he was going to display it in his store in a case, after a little soul searching, i sold it to him, it now resides proudly in a glass case next to the cash register where it recieves compliments dailyCool [8D]
  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: SLC, Ut.
Posted by Batosi420 on Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:22 AM

Hi.

Jeebus that's a great story and something similar happened to me.  Several years ago I was having some health problems that was putting me in the hospital for 3 or 4 days at a time quit often. Between sitting in the hospital and not being able to work is really the reason I came back to modeling after so long.  Lots of free time.

80% of my hospital visits I had a room-mate to talk too, most of which were WWII vets who were getting older and having problems, and their were Nurses and Aides around 24/7 who would always ask questions about the sprue trees spread everywhere.  Most were surprised at how complicated model kits really are.  Once I got a male nurse named Goldman, who turned out to be an Army Reservist who was getting the Army to pay for his medical schooling as he wanted to become a Doctor.

But before his Army Reserve days he was Sargent Goldman of the US Marine Corps, and he told me that he served aboard LHD-2 the USS Essex, a Marine assult ship. And in fact the USS Cole was assigned to the same amphibious(sp) assult-group as the USS Essex when Sgt. Goldman was serving. He had front-row seats to the whole bomobing event.

 I had recently finished a Revell-Germany kit of LHD-1 the USS Boxer, which also had decal options for the USS Essex, which is the way I went. I had even made a Celu-clay ocean on a wooden plaque(sp) base with a namecard and everything. As soon as he told me about serving aboard the USS Essex I knew I had to give the model to him. Last I heard he'd enlarged some pics and framed them and made a kinda' shrine around the model.  I was proud to give him the model and even prouder that he accepted it. Semper Fi Damon!Make a Toast [#toast]

Originally I was trying to give Tankerbuilder 2 answers to his post-

1st- That it is mostly the American attitude towards kitbuilding in general that drives US manufacturers to do what they do. If people don't think scale model building is as serious a hobby as gardening, woodworking, or jewelry making etc... then the sales numbers just won't be their.  And...

2nd- That somewhere out in the world exists a modelkit of almost every ship/tank/plane/car/whatever ever made. The BIG problem is that the majority of these modelkits will never be seen on a LHS shelf and that sucks!(pardon my french)

I truly believe that the 2nd problem is a direct result of the 1st.My 2 cents [2c] 

Also part of My problem is a very small, very limited modeling scene here in Salt Lake City in general, but I have found that when I'm telling Non-builders about my modeling interests having a hobby magizine like FSM or TMMI to show pictures of what's possible makes it easier. Alot!! 

Oh well, I guess always keep a copy of FSM handy in case of any needed emergency explanations, and always remember that we kit-builders are just unique. (special sounds like we need helmets)

-Ray 

"Artificial Inteligence is No match for Natural Stupidity" -Woody Paige

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: SLC, Ut.
Posted by Batosi420 on Thursday, August 13, 2009 5:42 AM

Hi again.

Forgot to say that...

Jeebus you should ask your Friend w/the display case if maybe he has any more room in that case and maybe suggest that 1 or 2 more of your models would look sooo good there.  At the very least you get a chance to display more of your work, and who knows, maybe your Friend buys another, or even better maybe someone else.Big Smile [:D]

Aaannd...

As long as your maybe suggesting all of this, remember to suggest maybe you could once a month or so switch-out the models for different ones. Keep'n it fresh, ya' know.

Yes my friend, I can see it all now. This could be like your own private gallery and your own private show!Bow [bow]  Oh! And make sure if anyone asks "Who"s the artist??", there only told "Jeebus!"  Your so exclusive you only have 1 name, like Ohpra or Brittney.Bow [bow]

...and Yes my tongue is pressing so hard against my cheek I can feel Ear.Whistling [:-^]

-Ray

"Artificial Inteligence is No match for Natural Stupidity" -Woody Paige

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by cagney37 on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:36 PM

     Other than going to the LHS, there sure are a lack of model kits in stores.  In  the mid to late '50's my local candy store had a supply of kits(mainly Aurora).  Not only did the local supermarket have kits for sale, but they had a display case with a couple of completed models.  

       My local " 5 and dime" used to have a nice selection of kits.  Now, it looks like they're selling off their kits and not replacing them.

       

 

  • Member since
    October 2006
Posted by Plasticbender on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:57 PM

Well, where I live there where about 4 hobby shop stores dedicated mainly to scale models and their supplys, I saw my first Pocher 1/8 scale models there, plastic Revell(I think) Cutty Sark ship....I still have the plastic hull halves in my workshop somewhere, the Tamiya 1/350 line of ships,the diferent plank on frame kits of several manufactures,armor,planes,cars kit galore.....now 2009....only ONE hobby shop dedicated to plastic models is left, is a very small one and the owner is an avid modeler and a very enthusiast "soldier of the line" in the static model survival, I think for him is more of a labor of love and enthusiasm than business.

I tried to support two of the now long gonne hobby shops in my area, by shopping there,buying the kits I wanted from them, even in if it had to be special ordered, several modeler friends told me...." HEY, BUY from the internet...is cheaper and a wider selection".....in part is true, I could get the models cheaper by $20 dollars or a little more, depending on the kit and brand..BUT, I had to pay shipping,buy paints,glue and other materials which now because of import laws can only be shipped a certain way and that is wayyyyy to expensive and time consuming. The owners of my hobby shop where nice guys for most part, some times giving regular customers small discounts in appreciation of their business.....but then, the change became a reality, I remember a holyday seasson that I was at one of these hobby shops, I was with several modelers friends talking with the owner, in a span of 45 minutes about 15 kids with their parents...and NO I am not exagerating....walk into the shop asking about the latest RC moster trucks and cars, some of them stop by the store(which did not deal in RC items) because they saw in the store window the TAMIYA name and two star logo on it, they assumed the store carried the RC line....it did not, the parents asked the kids if they wanted anything else from the store.....the constant replay was.."NO, this toys(plastic kits) are boring!!!!!!!!!!" The owner told us..."It have been like this for a week, with the sale of one of those RC "things" I could do my week sales better than  kits"....right there I knew the hobby was changing and the way of the plastic/static modeler will transform once more, now "new" modelers start not at age 10 or 12 but at 35 or 40 years of age, just go to ANY model show, local or national and you will see what I mean!!!

Well the fate was sealed then, the next two years where worse with the advent of the hyper fast and detailed games consoles..the stores began to close down...and as they say, the rest is history!!!

There are even now PC "virtual modelers" which by they way do terrifc works and with amazing detail but their models can be only appreciated in a computer screen...and belive it or not, some times take longer to "build" one of these virtual models than a hyper detailed plastic,resin or wood model!!!!

So I understand PERFECTLY the first post of this thread, WHY if EVERYTHING is pointing in the direction of a ADULT modeler as a main base for almost EVERY area of static scale models, some companys still keep producing and wasting money and resurses in "toy models" that don't even sell well or are at the discount bins most of the time at the few toy/department stores who still carries "some" type of model kits.

Model companys have to listen to the ADULT modelers and aim at that sector with more energy and attention, which for most part is the one that can afford the $30/50 to $300 dollars models....and they have to DELIVER A QUALITY PRODUCT because they are dealing with a more mature and historicaly oriented group, not a "passing stage modeler" that in a couple of years(or months) or less would not even look at model kits......if they are lucky(model companys) and the kid didn't discover the amazing electronics games and virtual world first.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 29, 2009 3:58 PM
 Plasticbender wrote:

There are even now PC "virtual modelers" which by they way do terrifc works and with amazing detail but their models can be only appreciated in a computer screen...and belive it or not, some times take longer to "build" one of these virtual models than a hyper detailed plastic,resin or wood model!!!!

...I refuse to recognize this activity as modeling...
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Sarasota, FL
Posted by RedCorvette on Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:45 PM

Why do people keep resurrecting threads that are months if not years old?

Mark 

 

FSM Charter Subscriber

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:52 PM
It's late at night, and no one else is on here posting anything interesting....Whistling [:-^]

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Thursday, October 29, 2009 10:15 PM

Kids are building models--  Just not the way us Olde Pharts did when we were kids. 

Lego models!

 Have you looked at the fancy Lego kits?  They teach the importance of following directions adn diagrams, and how part placement is critical-- get something wrong in step 3,and the thingamabob instep 7 won't fit.

"But they're just toys!" lament the Pharts.   (Not unlike the old  Monogram SBD Dauntless, with the retracting landing gear, operating dive brakes, working bomb drop, etc.,  and other kits from that era....!)

The old days are gone-- and aren't coming back.   But is that really all that bad?   I'd say the reality is that we are now living in the golden age of plastic modeling.  It is an adult hobby, with an amazing amount of subjects available in kit form, with an astounding selection of accessories and supplies to boot.    One of my favorite modeling subject areas is WW1 aircraft-- I've seen a real explosion in the number and quality of the kits available, just in the last 15 years.

 

 

Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:38 PM
 Mansteins revenge wrote:
...I refuse to recognize this activity as modeling...

Your loss; way to marginalize people who put in hard work. 

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Sarasota, FL
Posted by RedCorvette on Friday, October 30, 2009 9:13 AM
 Tracy White wrote:
 Mansteins revenge wrote:
...I refuse to recognize this activity as modeling...

Your loss; way to marginalize people who put in hard work. 

I didn't take as desparaging comment on the skill or effort required for virtual modeling, just that it's not "traditional" modeling in that it involves a completely different set of skills and doesn't produce a physical, tangible result that you can put on the fireplace mantle (at least not without a computer monitor).

I used to do some CAD and 3-D design work in my job and can testify to the fact that it is a challenging skill to master and probably requires more abstract skills than "conventional" modeling.

It's somewhat like comparing wooden ship modeling to plastic ship kits.  In one you fabricate parts from raw material stock where in the other you glue together pre-molded plastic parts.  I know some "purist" wooden modelers who spurn plastic kit "assemblers" as not being real modelers.

I think it all fits under the broad definition of what defines a hobby.  If someone derives pleasure, and relaxation from it, then that's good with me.

Personally, I'm becoming more "retro" in my modelling in that I'm embracing wooden ship modeling more and more.  I enjoy the challenge of learning new skills and derive satisfaction from actually creating something out of raw materials.  Not that I'm giving up plastic modeling, but it's just a different thing that I happen to enjoy.

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

FSM Charter Subscriber

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Friday, October 30, 2009 12:12 PM
If you have a Dragon Benson/Gleaves or Gearing, an Admiralty ModelWorks cruiser, or most anything designed and released in the last 5-10 years then you do h ave a physical, tangible result that came from a computer model. It is conceivable that in another ten to twenty years these models could be sold as a file that people download and use their home "rapid prototyping" printer to fabricate before painting and final assembly. I suppose Manny will like that even less.

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, October 30, 2009 12:46 PM
 Tracy White wrote:
 Mansteins revenge wrote:
...I refuse to recognize this activity as modeling...

Your loss; way to marginalize people who put in hard work. 

Not intended as a negative comment; just my point of view as to a definition....There's a lot of things that require hard work that isn't modeling...Not questioning that it is hard work...

I'm sure you aren't quick to jump on me because of past threads, are you?Wink [;)]

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, October 30, 2009 1:40 PM

Red Corvette wrote:  "It's somewhat like comparing wooden ship modeling to plastic ship kits.  In one you fabricate parts from raw material stock where in the other you glue together pre-molded plastic parts.  I know some "purist" wooden modelers who spurn plastic kit "assemblers" as not being real modelers."

I've given up on trying to "defend the legitimacy" of plastic kits to wood model enthusiasts.  The scratchbuilders among them don't bother me so much; the ones who do bug me are the ones who buy, and actually finish, one or two HECEPOB kits, and then feel they're entitled to look down their noses at plastic modelers.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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