Question about PT boat bases in the Pacific

I found some good info as well on these two sites:

http://www.pt103.com/index.html

and 

http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/05idx.htm

The second one is especially nice as it has two photos (one in color and one in B/w) of the PT 117 in perfectly good condition. 

Ok, well here are a few pictures of the protagonist. It is still in my dad's capable hands, and quite frankly, I think he's doing a great job on it so far! Once he is done putting all the plastic together, he'll send it my way (don't be nervous, I only live 15 minutes away) and I'll do the finishing work which includes airbrushing, weathering, and so on. Now that my basement is not as, uh, moist as it once was, I hope to pick it up tomorrow. In the mean time, the Oscar is mostly done. I've painted and weathered the upper surfaces, I just have to work on the undercarriage. I'm not sure if you guys wanted to see a pic of it as this is after all a ship forum.

Any way, myself nor my father are experts on the PT boat, so please, if you see any glaring mistakes or no-no's, let me know! I've been doing my best with research and you all have been more than helpful, but details sometimes fall through the cracks, especially when I have a 2 year old and a pregnant wife and work, so any tips are great (for both the PT and raising two children!)

Here they are:

Here's where its at, any comments and criticism are welcome of course. 

subfixer wrote:

I think that this is the movie that is being referred to: Robert Montgomery was, in actuality, a WWII PT commander and took over directing this movie when John Ford became ill. It is said that he did such a good job of directing, that he got other directing jobs later. The movie won two Oscars.

I recall watching this movie many years ago on the late show and the guy hosting stated that this movie was filmed around Key Biscayne in South Florida.

Bondoman and Tucchase, thank you both for the vote of confidence. I think I'll stick to my original plan of the PT being attacked at the dock by a marauding Ki-43. I finally got the time to read through that entire Unknown History site. Interesting story and great pictures. I did notice that aerial photo of the base which played a part in my deciding to stick to the original idea. The river in my basement is now but a puddle so I can really start cranking things out now - just hope it doesn't rain any more! Then I'll post some pics for you all!

Thanks again -- Jon

Glad to help oddmanrush.  Good luck on your basement!  For the Oscar, I would say, unless you uncover some real info that says the Japanese did not have Oscars in the Solomons, go with your original plan!  Page 6 of PT-109 Unknown History says that on April 7 (I presume 1943) Talugi was attacked by 177 planes, of which 25 were shot down.  I have no doubt some were Oscars.  The article only specifies that some were dive bombers.  No other type was identified in the article.  I am looking forward to seeing your pics when you can, but no hurry.  I know full well how life can interfere with the best laid modeling plans.  Or any other plans for that matter!

PS - That Page 1 has a couple of nice aerial photos of Talugi Base.  Big Base!

"Bulkley in his book called the attackers of 8/1/43 against Lumbari island "bombers"."(sorry, I messed up the quote)

Bondoman, thats what I had read too. Since it was so inspecific, I figured that an Oscar could be just as good as any. I could certainly be wrong, and granted a Rufe might be a better option but I'm just working with what I have in stock. But I'll peruse the internet to see if I can find a good deal. 

Tucchase, when I first opened that link, I probably looked at every picture but those in the Unknown History section. I just looked at it now, and sure enough, it is a GREAT picture of the 117! Thanks for pointing that out. 

Well, I'm going to check the water level in the basement and assess my options here. This is a lot of interesting information which leaves me with some decisions to make! 

tucchase wrote:

steves wrote: A Zero with floats is a Rufe, not a Pete. Interesting!  I was quoting from the PT-109 Unknown History link that was on the link you posted.  It is in the middle of the last paragraph on Page 3. These Zero fighter planes on floats, code-named 'Pete' by the Allies, were the bastard cousins to 'Louie the Louse' and would soon become the newest addition in the Imperial Navy's repertoire of anti-PT tricks. To the PT crews, the Petes would quickly become their most hated adversaries for the rest of the fight for the Solo-mons.

bondoman wrote:

A "zero with floats" is a Rufe, which is an IJN single float fighter that could also carry two small bombs. A "Pete" is a biplane recon affair that could also carry two small bombs. The Fujimi "type zero" kit with two floats is a "Glen", which is pretty purely a two seat recon aircraft. A Ki-43 "Oscar" is an IJA aircraft that could do the job, but would have been operating from land. I'd suggest the Rufe sounds about right, plus it's a really good looking airplane. Now of course, to most people in the Pacific, pretty much any Japanese fighter was a "Zero", so it's inconclusive, but is probably close to accurate for the 117. Lot's and lot's of companies sell these, and pretty cheap on eBay. You could probably get one for $ 10.

I think you've nailed it Bondoman.  The article talks about them carrying bombs as well as strafing them.  It also talks about their base being repeatedly bombed by land based planes, so the Oscar would be appropriate, right?  The base was in Tulagi, North of Guadalcanal.

steves wrote:

A Zero with floats is a Rufe, not a Pete.

Interesting!  I was quoting from the PT-109 Unknown History link that was on the link you posted.  It is in the middle of the last paragraph on Page 3.

These Zero fighter planes on floats, code-named 'Pete' by the Allies, were the bastard cousins to 'Louie the Louse' and would soon become the newest addition in the Imperial Navy's repertoire of anti-PT tricks. To the PT crews, the Petes would quickly become their most hated adversaries for the rest of the fight for the Solo-mons.

A "zero with floats" is a Rufe, which is an IJN single float fighter that could also carry two small bombs.

A "Pete" is a biplane recon affair that could also carry two small bombs.

The Fujimi "type zero" kit with two floats is a "Glen", which is pretty purely a two seat recon aircraft.

A Ki-43 "Oscar" is an IJA aircraft that could do the job, but would have been operating from land.

I'd suggest the Rufe sounds about right, plus it's a really good looking airplane. Now of course, to most people in the Pacific, pretty much any Japanese fighter was a "Zero", so it's inconclusive, but is probably close to accurate for the 117. Lot's and lot's of companies sell these, and pretty cheap on eBay. You could probably get one for $ 10.

surfsup wrote:

Another movie to look at for Ideas is PT 109. It shows up Base details including the T Jetty. The movie also depicts an Airborne Attack on the PT Base. From what I remember, it is well shot in the Pacific and gives you a rough Idea for details that you might be looking for....Cheers Mark

That movie was filmed in the Florida Keys - east of Key West.  The actual island used for the PT Base is now a resort spa.   Apparently the local residents were quite concerned about the filming of the movie and the large military presence, as the Cuban Missile Crisis happened a few months earlier. 

Tucchase, of course I'll be posting pictures as soon as I can. I've been delayed in my building because my basement (where my work bench is) has been taking on water during the recent rains. For a while, I was afraid that I'd be building the PT boat for my own transportation! But the water is slowly evaporating and the dehumidifier is working overtime. I should, however, give you a little back ground to this project if you wish. This is a joint project, between my father and I. He doesn't like to paint, so he builds much of the model and I finish the small details, paint, and weather it. This is our way to get him back into the hobby after 13 years away from it and to have a little father son time. Its fun. So this is our 3rd project, I'm working concurrenlty on this and a B-25 Mitchell (he builds faster than I finish) so I'm a little bogged down.

Sorry, I get excited about builds tend to ask questions about issues I haven't even reached yet which may lead others to believe I'm a lot further along in my progress than I actually am, but as soon as I get the chance, I'll put some build pics up for you all.

Jon

A Zero with floats is a Rufe, not a Pete.

oddmanrush wrote:

Hmmm, so what you're saying is that the Ki-43 that I'm working on isn't a viable option to be doing battle, per se, with my PT boat? I guess this is where personal preference versus complete historical accuracy comes into play. I don't have a 1/72 Pete sitting in my stash and I'm not willing as yet to drop the dough for another kit. Maybe I should make this more of a ficticious encounter, not necessarily based on the story of the actual PT 117. I'm assuming that an Oscar would pounce on a PT if it saw it as a target of opportunity, so maybe this idea isn't too far off. Isn't it great how you can ask one question here and then wind up reassessing the layout of your entire project! Haha, you guys have been more than helpful with this! Jon

Nope! Not suggesting that at all.  Just letting you know about another option to consider once you mentioned maybe having the diorama of the boat underway.  I have no doubt the Oscar was one of the common planes used to bomb the bases, so it would be very appropriate for your diorama, either way.  If the Oscar hadn't been used in this area, I am sure someone else would have mentioned it by now.  You're going to post pics as you build aren't you?

Tamiya makes a 1/50 scale "Pete" Seaplane. Kit No. MA111 300.

Jeff 

Hmmm, so what you're saying is that the Ki-43 that I'm working on isn't a viable option to be doing battle, per se, with my PT boat? I guess this is where personal preference versus complete historical accuracy comes into play. I don't have a 1/72 Pete sitting in my stash and I'm not willing as yet to drop the dough for another kit. Maybe I should make this more of a ficticious encounter, not necessarily based on the story of the actual PT 117. I'm assuming that an Oscar would pounce on a PT if it saw it as a target of opportunity, so maybe this idea isn't too far off. Isn't it great how you can ask one question here and then wind up reassessing the layout of your entire project! Haha, you guys have been more than helpful with this!

Jon

I looked online to see if there were 1/72 Zero "Pete" varieties. Fujimi makes one variety-a recon plane with 2 floats. Hasegawa makes another with a single main float and outriggers. Both are listed at Squadron and presumably others. If the "pete" you are looking for is the biplane version, I don't know what to suggest

Regards,

Stenscience

Well it looks like I have my work cut out for me but if it includes watching John Wayne movies, I can live with that! Steve, thanks for that link. There are a lot of great looking photos there that should be useful.

I'm also playing with the idea of having the PT under way and under attack rather than being under attack at its mooring. I think visually, that would be more attractive and it would ease the pressure I put on myself to get the base looking just right. What do you guys think? 

Right now, the boat is painted basically two shades of gray. I've read the threads on PT colors, and I think that gray will work Ok.  The kit only came with 3 crew members, is there a place I can get a hold of more? Or perhaps I can fashion a few out of some extra 1/72 scale figures I've got in the spares box. Jeez, I'm getting chatty...

Thanks for the tips! Looks like I'll be wandering around the movie store, unless I can find it On Demand but I'm never that lucky!

Jon

Yeah, they were on some kind of flatbed trailers with trucks pulling them, IIRC.  A great movie!

 In Harm's Way, John Wayne's son got killed during the attack on the Japanese task force.  He went back to PT boats after seeing how much of a louse the Congressman turned Commander really was.  Another epic movie.

Tom

If my memory serves me well, the final scene of the movie has two PT boats on flatbed trucks being transported to a river/lake to interdict the Japanese forces. That would make a great diorama in 1:35 scale. Does anyone recall the  movie scene?

Mike