News from the Navy !

warshipguy

Women have been serving on warships and auxilliary ships as officers crew for almost three decades now and have done well.  I know of no ship with a dedicated OB/GYN.  Destroyers and smaller ships have had them with no physician onboard; these ships have Independent Duty Hospital Corpsmen.  Women have commanded ships as well.

I remember well the Navy of the 1970's and before; women were not really well-regarded as officers or sailors because they were denied the ability to go to sea. I believe that they have proven fully capable and should be able to serve on all types of ships, even submarines.

Bill Morrison

Women have been serving on warships and auxilliary ships as officers and crew for almost three decades now and have done well.  I know of no ship with a dedicated OB/GYN.  Destroyers and smaller ships have had them with no physician onboard; these ships have Independent Duty Hospital Corpsmen.  Women have commanded ships as well.

I remember well the Navy of the 1970's and before; women were not really well-regarded as officers or sailors because they were denied the ability to go to sea. I believe that they have proven fully capable and should be able to serve on all types of ships, even submarines.

Bill Morrison

Thanks for enlightening me Bill and Ed. I thought he had been referring to the real dolphins as I'm aware the Navy uses them to detect explosives under water. I had no idea they were used as an emblem to denote qualifications. As far as not allowing women on subs goes, I had assumed it was due to the cramped and rather non private environment but I did not know there were health and safety concerns. Very interesting.

warshipguy

As a retired US Navy submariner and Independent Duty Hospital Corpsman who served onboard six submarines, I can shed some insight into this matter.  Women have never yet served onboard submarines. Women shipyard workers at Electric Boat in Groton, CT and at the Portsmouth Navy Shipyard sued the Navy back in the 1980's because workers who worked at building submarines were randomly selected  to go to sea during sea trials before delivery.  Their promotions depended upon their going.  Yet, women were prevented from doing so.  The women won.

I was on the first submarine to take women workers to sea, the USS Michigan SSBN 727).  They have since been doing so.

However, taking them as actual crew members has been problematical not for privacy issues (there is no privacy on submarines), but rather for medical reasons.  The Bureau of Medicine and Surgery has prevented their doing so because of the possibility of ectopic (or tubal) pregnancy, a common enough occurence that could result in death if not surgically treated promptly. Submarines do not carry physicians onboard, even if they did, one would probably not diagnose the condition promptly enough to save her life, even if the surgical capabilities existed. They do not.   This situation could be especially acute if it occurred under the polar icecap.

Apparently, BUMED removed  its objections.

As for the Dolphins, there is an intense one-year qualifications program as well. The SWO and Air Warfare devices are based on the submarine qualifications program (The SWO crossed-butterknives did not come about until the 1970's).  As for watches, coners (forward, non-nuke personnel) do not stand Engine Room watches.

Bill Morrison

As a retired US Navy submariner and Independent Duty Hospital Corpsman who served onboard six submarines, I can shed some insight into this matter.  Women have never yet served onboard submarines. Women shipyard workers at Electric Boat in Groton, CT and at the Portsmouth Navy Shipyard sued the Navy back in the 1980's because workers who worked at building submarines were randomly selected  to go to sea during sea trials before delivery.  Their promotions depended upon their going.  Yet, women were prevented from doing so.  The women won.

I was on the first submarine to take women workers to sea, the USS Michigan SSBN 727).  They have since been doing so.

However, taking them as actual crew members has been problematical not for privacy issues (there is no privacy on submarines), but rather for medical reasons.  The Bureau of Medicine and Surgery has prevented their doing so because of the possibility of ectopic (or tubal) pregnancy, a common enough occurence that could result in death if not surgically treated promptly. Submarines do not carry physicians onboard, even if they did, one would probably not diagnose the condition promptly enough to save her life, even if the surgical capabilities existed. They do not.   This situation could be especially acute if it occurred under the polar icecap.

Apparently, BUMED removed  its objections.

As for the Dolphins, there is an intense one-year qualifications program as well. The SWO and Air Warfare devices are based on the submarine qualifications program (The SWO crossed-butterknives did not come about until the 1970's).  As for watches, coners (forward, non-nuke personnel) do not stand Engine Room watches.

The plans I have read for female berthing involves using one of the officers' three-man bunkrooms.  I am not sure about head facilities because on the two Trident boats on which I served, the Officers have one head, The CO and XO share one, the Chief's have theirs, and the crew has one with one watchstander's head one level down from the Control Room.  That is all; they must serve a 163 man crew.  As far as the Fast Attack boats go, they have the same arrangements, only smaller.

When we took women to sea with us, they shared the same berthing and the same heads. There was no privacy; everyone was expected to act as adults. Amazingly, everyone did so.

Bill Morrison

oddmanrush

That's cool Jake...but can you explain some back ground here? There has never been a female on a Submarine patrol before? Interesting. Also, why does she need to qual in a sub for the work she does with dolphins?

I'm not Jake,  but I can begin to answer this question.

The Dolphins he references are the emblem in the US Navy that indicates that one is qualified in submarines.  Dolphins are also used by other world Navys to indicate their crew qualifications.  It does not refer to the marine mammal.

They are like a pilot's wings or the SWO water-wings.  You are not a submariner until you earn your Dolphins.

They are emblematic of the training and experience which the wearer has acheived.  Wearer must stand watches in most, if not all, departments (reactors? -- I'm not too sure if you're not a nuke).  Must understand the systems, and how to deal with casualties, and pass a test in order to be awarded their Doplhins.

The other submarine badge is the deterrent patrol badge.

This badge indicates that the wearer has participated in nuclear deterrrent patrols,  with a star being added in each hole for patrols acheived.   It is possible to have a deterrent badge without Dolphins, but it is rare.   You strive to be qualified in submarines by the end of your first patrol.

As to why females have not served on US submarines before,  up to the Ohios,  there were not enough bunk space to allow everyone to have their own bunk let alone some semblence of privacy  (hot bunking was common).   Putting females in the same bunk space as males was probably not a good idea on SSNs.     With the Ohios,  crews got their own bunks, and crew bunk space was established in the spaces between and around the missile tubes.  This would allow them to establish a female-only bunk pod and allow a bit more privacy. 

That's cool Jake...but can you explain some back ground here? There has never been a female on a Submarine patrol before? Interesting. Also, why does she need to qual in a sub for the work she does with dolphins?

Nothing personal against your wife,  but I think the Admirals made the wrong decision...Again, nothing personal.