Daydreaming: New 1/96 sailing ships

Great thread, so in day dreaming:

Ships I would like to see, 1/96th if possible, would be the 'Golden Hind' or any Tudor era ship.

A nice RN or French '74 would be great as would a large great lakes schooner.

GeneK

 

Sprue-ce Goose:

 

 

CapnMac82:

My library is in storage, but I believe Anatomy of the Ship volume on Bounty  covers some of the differences in the last two ships built/used for MotB movies.

 

 

I was unaware a book had been issued about the HMS Bounty..

I have the Anatomy of the Ship publication on the USS Constitution but the dust jacket did not list HMS Bounty.

I will check on-line for further information.

 

 

 

 I have the "Anatomy of the Ship" book on Bounty, and it is by far the best source I've seen. It's based on the two Admiralty drafts made when it was purchased. There is some info on the last two hollywood ships, but it isn't really specific about all the differences, and doesn't mention the 1930s version. Also don't forget that Bligh made changes both before leaving and during the voyage.

 

We've had quite a few Forum discussions about the Bounty.  I think I can claim to be fairly knowledgeable about the subject; back in the late seventies, when I was working on a model of her (based on the old Revell kit) I read everything I could get my hands on about her.  Here's a link to one of those earlier Forum threads:

/forums/t/106424.aspx?PageIndex=1

Bottom line:  So far as I know, every Bounty kit (with the possible exception of the wood one from Calder/Jotika) has serious problems.  The Revell version is arguably the best of the plastic batch, but turning it into a serious scale model involves a lot of work.  I'm not a fan of the Airfix kit (which wasn't available when I built my little model).  In all honesty, if (heaven forbid) I were to build another model of this ship, I'd almost certainly build it from scratch.  If I'd built my little Revell-originating model from scratch I probably would have finished sooner.

I'm not sure if the publishers could lay any claim to a kit of HMS Surprise . . . she was a real warship.  If the company limited their efforts to the real ship, the publishers have no claim.  I wonder how Mamoli got around this issue; I have that HECEPOB kit that I bought at an extremely good price (under $100.00)!  Oh well . . . a new 1/96 scale kit would be nice

Bill

A  1/96 Pruessen or Peking would be bigger than my hobby room! but I like the idea of something smaller like the yacht 'America' or the topsail schooner 'Pride of Baltimore' would be nice in that scale.

There are many kits that could be reproduced.  The problem is too many hands in the cookie jar.  Too many people want their share of money.  Let's take HMS Surprise.  Say Revell decides to take on the project of making a 1/96 Surprise.  Aside the cost of designing and creating the molds, the first people to come after their share would be the author/publisher, etc of the book.  Revell must have their permission to create the kit.  Then, if Revell is going to use the movie as a reference, they not only have to worry about having to pay the maker of the movie, but the owner of the actual ship could (and note I said COULD, nothing is truly known) demand their own share of the pot. 

This may have been a reason Zvezda had to change their Black Pearl model kit to the Black Swan.  Disney charging too much for license.  Zvezda wouldn't pay, then got a cease and desist.   That's my suspicion anyway.  So Revell simply rehashes their old molds, adding something to make them "new" again.  For Revell, or most of the other major model manufacturers, it's not about offering cool, incredible kits.  It's about the all mighty dollar.  It's about "how do we make the most money off of kit without spending a lot."  So Revell either rehashes old kits or they license another manufacturer's kit.  The 1/350 Wasp kit is a perfect example.  Revell didn't make it.  Revell simply bought the rights to slap their name on it. 

It would be nice to see some new 1/96 kits.  Personally, instead of specific historical ships, I would like to see an "example" of a typical ship of it's type.  A nice Brig, a beautiful Sloop or Cutter, and then the 2 and 3 deck ships of the line, each with options to make them a specific ship.  If I had to name a ship, then I would most certainly like to see the USS Pennyslyvania.  A beautiful vessel.

But, I doubt we'll see anything antime soon...but it is nice to talk about...

nfafan

Yes, I'd buy into a 1/96th frigate Constellation, the Essex, a USS Niagara. But... 1/96th is great for detail - bad for display space. To this end I'd opt for 1/196th to match the current Revell pop of the 1955-vintage Constitution.

I agree in terms of display space.  Would be great to have a 1/196 Guerriere, Java, Cyane, & Levant to display alongside the Constitution.  Maybe even do a reasonably-sized diorama.

Back to 1/96 scale (and going in a completely different direction subject-wise), I'd like to see models of contemporary America's Cup yachts, especially some of the classic 12 meter boats. 

Mark

The problem with those re-releases is that they are the same tired old kits that most of us already have in our collections!  I will not keep buying HMS Victory over and over again just to boost their sales numbers.  I want something new!  Thanks to Revell, we seem to get a new sailing ship every now and then.  Given that Revell seems to be making model kits of the several museum replicas around the world, I cannot wait to see what happens when the Dutch finish their rebuild of De Zeven Provencien.  Perhaps Revell will make a kit of that!

Bill 

Thanks for the info on that book on HMS Bounty !

Sprue-ce Goose

CapnMac82:

My library is in storage, but I believe Anatomy of the Ship volume on Bounty  covers some of the differences in the last two ships built/used for MotB movies.

 

I was unaware a book had been issued about the HMS Bounty..

I have the Anatomy of the Ship publication on the USS Constitution but the dust jacket did not list HMS Bounty.

I will check on-line for further information.

 

 I have the "Anatomy of the Ship" book on Bounty, and it is by far the best source I've seen. It's based on the two Admiralty drafts made when it was purchased. There is some info on the last two hollywood ships, but it isn't really specific about all the differences, and doesn't mention the 1930s version. Also don't forget that Bligh made changes both before leaving and during the voyage.

I believe CapnMac82 is referring to this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Armed-Transport-Bounty-Anatomy-Ship/dp/0851778933

1943Mike

Mikeym_us

maybe the Royal navy has some idea.

Hopefully, recent budget cutbacks didn't prompt the Admiralty to toss out their archives.

CapnMac82

My library is in storage, but I believe Anatomy of the Ship volume on Bounty  covers some of the differences in the last two ships built/used for MotB movies.

I was unaware a book had been issued about the HMS Bounty..

I have the Anatomy of the Ship publication on the USS Constitution but the dust jacket did not list HMS Bounty.

I will check on-line for further information.

My library is in storage, but I believe Anatomy of the Ship volume on Bounty  covers some of the differences in the last two ships built/used for MotB movies.

Not that I can leaf through my copy and summarize them, sadly.

maybe the Royal navy has some idea.

Mikeym_us

which HMS Bounty Warshipguy? the HMS Bounty from the 1950's Marlon Brando Mutiny on the Bounty or the 1970's Mel Gibson Mutiny on the Bounty? I hear the Bounty from Mel Gibson's Mutiny on the Bounty was more accurate.

Bill

I'd like to know how the 1930s movie Mutiny on the Bounty compares to the other movie versions.

I have a photo copy of an old set of blueprints ( for a contest ) of the ship produced for the Clark Gable movie.

What source has surviving information about the actual ship so I can compare with my blueprints?

What I meant was simply that it seems that Revell has been focusing most of their sailing ship efforts on replicas either currently in existence or soon to be in existence.  A replica of HMAV Bounty exists; Revell has a model kit of that ship.  Charles Morgan (the original) exists, the Revell has a model of that ship.  A replica of Batavia has been built, Revell has a model of that ship.

I applaud their efforts!  Any NEW sailing ship kits are most welcome!

Bill 

which HMS Bounty Warshipguy? the HMS Bounty from the 1950's Marlon Brando Mutiny on the Bounty or the 1970's Mel Gibson Mutiny on the Bounty? I hear the Bounty from Mel Gibson's Mutiny on the Bounty was more accurate.

warshipguy

Actually, Revell of Germany seems to be doing just that . . . every new release seems to be of a museum ship.  Look at their past . . . HMS Victory, USS Constitution, Cutty Sark, Charles Morgan.  Although the kits HMAV Bounty, Mayflower, and Golden Hind came before the reconstructions, those ships are now represented as reconstructions.  The Batavia was based on a reconstructed museum ship, and the Viking Ship was based on an intact one found in Europe.  Look at the Dom Fernando e Gloria (although this kit originated in Russia with Occidental).  Finally, their new release of Wasa later this year will continue this trend.  One can only hope that they will continue it with the two British frigates maintained as museums, and the French one building as well as the Zeven Provencien building in Holland.

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but I really wish other manufacturers would join in. Also, these kits are small; I would like a few more 1/96 scale ships.

That said, I decided to try Crackers' advice.  I downloaded the plans for the 1/96 scale Model Shipyard British frigate HMS Cleopatra.  I started using the templates for the paper model to cut the pieces out of sheet styrene; I have built the keel and the frames so far.  If this works, I may later try the HMS Bellona, HMS Mercury, and HMS Enterprize in the same scale.

Bill

You are paraphrasing John Tilley when he called such practises fraudulent.  No other business could get away with it.  In the case of the Alabama and the Thermopylae/Pedro Nunes, plans were readily available and should have been used in designing the kits.  I believe Revell cheated its customers when they released these kits.

I find it interesting that, when Lindberg released its 1/72 Japanese submarine, the rage and outcry rang throughout the modeling world about its gross inaccuracies; nobody bats an eye when Revell releases or re-releases the Beagle, Alabama, Thermopylae, etc.

Oh, Great Modeling Gods in the sky, please give us new and accurate sailing ship kits!

Bill

Re popping hulls from the wrong ships to try to simulate another by changing some deck details to cheapskate is simply deception. This is taking advantage of buyers trust that what they are getting is a true scale model when they build their kit.  Also re popping an ancient  kit that has been out of circulation for years and printing 'new' on the box is also an insidious practice. I guess that it will stop only if anybody takes the trouble to complain to make an official complaint to a trading standards authority who have the clout to take them to task.

As far as new 1/96th scale kits go, I would like to see the Gloucester Schooner ELSIE,  HMS Warrior and Brunel's Great Britain kitted.   Viability as kits.....That'a another thing!

I can think of a few that I'd like to see...

The Bluenose and Gertrude L. Thebaud, Baltimore Clippers, the mighty J-Boats of the early America's Cup,

The German Seeadler of WWI fame...

We can only hope.

Ray

The CSS Alabama kit actually bears little resemblance to the actual ship.  You are correct that the basic hull from the USS Kearsarge was used for the Alabama kit.  The actual Alabama had very raked masts while the kit's are vertical.  The cannons are incorrect as well, and are in  the wrong places.  If you were to examine a deck plan of the real ship and compare it to the kit, you would also find that much of the kit's deck furniture is incorrect and badly placed.

Many of the same issues plague the Thermopylae/Pedro Nunes kits as well. It's a shame; these ships deserve to have detailed models made, as do many other sailing ships.

Bill

With regard to the 1/96th scale Revell Kearsage and Alabama kits

also the 1/96th scale Cutty Sark and Thermopylae/PedroNunes kits.

Hulls are correct for Kearsarge and the Cutty Sark.     However, I think that the same hull mouldings have been used to take shortcuts to make the other model kits, only because their sizes are roughly similar. The real ships lines are on record for anyone to see.

Arrest the usual suspects?

Daydreaming ?

I think it must be the filler putty fumes.....

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how well the Revell Re-issue Kearsarge and Alabama kits did on the market?

The kits seemed to fly off the shelves as soon as they hit the stores.

I'm shocked, shocked to find that daydreaming is going on here! (with apologies to the character Captain Renault as played by Claude Rains) but I must admit, you guys are my kind of day dreamers.

Miike S.

A more accurate CSS Alabama would be nice, it was a very attractive ship I think.  I had thought the Kearsarge was supposed to be very accurate, but a later fit than the one she had fighting the Alabama.  It is inaccurate?  Personally I'd love to see a French or Spanish first-rate like l'Orient, l'Ocean, Santisima Trinidad, Santa Ana or San Jose.  Or how about the French-built Admiral Kornilov? 

(sigh)... still hung up on the idea of a 1/96 Sovereign of the Seas in plastic...

I think a Royal Navy 38 gun frigate would be a great choice-- HMS Guerierre, et al.    In classic Revell form,  it could be sold as a variety of ships.....

USS Newark C-1. That would be something.

Absolutely!

Bill

I balked at buying the re-issues of the U.S.S. Kearsarge and C.S.S. Alabama mainly due to comments about inaccuracies though lack of display space at the time did factor into the decision

Would anyone be interested in more accurate versions of Kearsarge and Alabama as well as a U.S.S. Hartford and U.S.S.  Minnesota?

A War of 1812 Great Lakes warship would be a compact model and an intact version was found a few years ago.

Also, I realize they aren't sailing ships, but 1/96 scale representations of the most important American Civil War ironclad designs would go well with a sailing ship collection.