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Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

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  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark
Posted by 1943Mike on Saturday, October 22, 2011 9:00 AM

To all of you who have built the CS, did you build her with or without sails?

Since the rains are about to begin again for another gloomy Oregon winter I thought I'd ask before making up my mind on my kit. This time I plan to do a better job on the rigging than I did on the USS Constitution I finished a month ago. However, I may not be done in one season this time. I'm going to mull over the information I've gleaned from this thread: /forums/t/129067.aspx?PageIndex=1 and maybe change some of the parts in the kit for a more realistic look.

Your suggestions and opinions are valuable to me so please know in advance that I'm grateful for all your replys.

Mike S.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Sunday, October 23, 2011 11:02 AM

There is an old tradition that seems to have faded away, but for what it is worth I thought I'd mention it.  That tradition was to build naval ships with yards, topmasts erected/up, and some running rigging in place, but no sails, whereas civil/merchant ships were depicted with sails.  I don't know who all adhered to that tradition, but heard it mentioned a few times.

From my own observations, I see naval ships very seldom with sails, so that seems to fit, but on civil ships I see them both ways, about equally.

One observation if you do build it with sails set, paint them.  The vacuformed styrene does not give the appearance of sails, whereas a very light grey/tan flat paint does represent sails well. I assume the Cutty Sark, not being a US ship, would have used linen sails rather than cotton, so would not have white sails, but a linen color.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Sunday, October 23, 2011 11:59 AM

Thanks for that Don.

I've read most of that information before but am grateful that you reiterated it so well and succinctly.

I'd still like to know the thoughts/reasoning on why those who have built the 1/96 CS did or did not rig her with sails.

Question #1: If I rigged her with sails, does the rigging get more difficult due to the sails getting in the way and making more problematic the tie-offs to the pins, eyebolts, yards, etc.?

Question #2: A few of the sails (on sheet H-399 - 6012) are torn and bent badly. Is there a way to repair them? Should I leave them off if rigging with sails? Can I get a "new" sheet from Revell?

Thanks in advance for any more help.

Mike S.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Mike F6F on Sunday, October 23, 2011 3:44 PM

Mike,

I'd vote for no sails.  I've always thought set sails on a static, full hull model just don't look right.

The vacform sails are so heavy that you'll never get the staysails looking right.

Besides the Cutty Sark is very impressive with just bare spars.  

Mike

 

"Grumman on a Navy Airplane is like Sterling on Silver."

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Sunday, October 23, 2011 4:04 PM

Thanks for your vote Mike. That's the kind of opinion I am looking for.

Mike S.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Monday, October 24, 2011 10:48 PM

Mike F6F
I've always thought set sails on a static, full hull model just don't look right.

Which is a poignant point indeed.

It's been thirty-plus since I've had hands-on experience  with the 1/96 CS, but I remember thinking that the 'set' of the yards did not make any sense.  Especially with staysails set

If the rig is in a gentle, starboard-quarter broad reach, then, quite a few of the staysails would be in the wind-shadow of the windward masts.  Further, the spanker (and possibly the spencer) ought be cranked way over. 

Which is not an effect the vacuform sails are going to be very "friendly" towards.  Ditto for how the jibs ought be flying (not drooping down)--which would likely require wire to model the jib sheets.

So, to my mind, with vacuform sails, the yards ought to be hauled around close-hauled.

Which presents another reason to not have sails on a full-hull static display like this--close-hauled, she should show 10-15º of heel.  Should be all sorts of dynamic stuff there, too--like lee backstays slacked away; fore lead shroud slacked to get the courses over, all sorts of things that would look odd on spindles and a fine hardwood base.

"Bare poles" is pretty enough.  Just remember to carve off the alternate yard position on the masts.

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 12:09 AM

CapnMac82,

Thanks for the very technical explanation. Sounds like you've sailed before? It's all above my head but seems to point toward my building her without sails.

Thanks again,

Mike S.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 9:46 AM

I built mine without sails because I like the appearance of a properly rigged ship with yards in their lowered position.  Few model kits get that right; ships are often rigged without sails but with yards raised as if they have them.  John Tilley often made this point and he was correct to do so.

Bill

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 10:33 AM

Thanks for that Bill. Is there a picture of yards in the lowered position somewhere that I can reference?

Mike S.

P.S. Out on a hike. Back this evening.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 12:39 PM

As I said before, been a while, but I remember the Revell kit having both positions moulded on the masts.

Cutty Sark has "doubled" topsails and topgallants.  The lower yar of each of those is affixed the mast cap.  The upper yard then runs in a parrel up the mast from a few feet above the cap, to just below the top. 

The reason this was done is that it allowed a smaller crew to reduce sail by just slacking the upper yard's halyard.

When the yards are lowered, the middle is carried by the halyard, and the ends by "lifts"--these go slack when the yard is hoisted (but were likely triced up with "small stuff"--waste rope yarns--so as to not flap about in the breeze).

By leaving off the sails, you can skip the buntlines and the like, which cleans the appearance up, too.

Which then leaves the "rivet counting" modeler a problem.  CS used a lot of chain and wire rope in the rigging.  Seems like I remember that the topsail sheets are chain--once again, I have to lament a life 7/8 packed away, I'm separated from my Campbell plans.

Prof Tilley has not chimed in here, but i agree with him on the Campbell plans for CS.  They do not always simplify a modeler's life--but good references are often like that, too.

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:38 PM

Bill and CapnMac82,

Of course I knew about the upper and lower positions of the yards on the masts from my Connie! Embarrassed My old brain is just not thinking things through very well right now.

I will try to file away (sand, cut, whatever) the upper "rings" on the masts where the yards would have gone had I rigged her for sails.

This time I won't rig the Sheet & Clew lines as I did with the Connie.

I'd appreciate input as to a good compromise regarding chain vs. rope rigging. I HAVE THE CAMPBELL PLANS but don't want to spend a small fortune on chain and "wire rope" where it might not matter. In other words I want to build the ship well and to a point where I feel the look is authentic without going overboard. I have printed out 7 pages from someone (I can't recall the author but he may be a regular here) who wrote "How to Build Revell's Cutty Sark - A Modelers Guide" which seems to contain lots of useful information on the build I'm about to start.

You all have been a great help again and I thank you. I feel I have enough information to start my project in a month or so and take enough time to create something I'd feel good about showing to this audience.

Thanks again,

Mike S.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:14 AM

Mike,

One of the problems with plastic sailing ships is that the modeller often finds those problematic "rings" on the masts in which to place the yards.  Another is that plastic masts are difficult to rig because of their flexibility. One solution that I use is to make my own masts and spars using wooden dowels cut and shaped by me.  That approach solves many ills.

Bill

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Sarasota, FL
Posted by RedCorvette on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:21 PM

Another option might be to do furled sails using silkpsan model airplane covering tissue. 

That's what I'm planning to do with the Revell 1/196 Consitution that's on my bench. 

I'm building her as she looked in 1997 when they sailed her on her 200th birthday.  They only bent six sails, making the task a bit easier, but offering some unusual visual interest to the model.

Mark

 

FSM Charter Subscriber

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:09 PM

Bill,

I've seen threads with discussion about using wood masts and yards but it's beyond my scope. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Mike S.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:10 PM

Mark,

Another idea for me to ponder. Thanks!

Mike S.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    December 2011
Posted by hoover12 on Thursday, December 15, 2011 1:34 PM

Mike;

I built the Cutty Sark many years ago. When moving from Seattle to Santa Barbara, the model was damaged. I am trying to repair it and could use a copy of the plans, specifically how to rig the bowsprit. Can you help?

 

Thanks,

 

Russ Huber

hoover124@cox.net

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Friday, December 16, 2011 6:19 PM

Russ,

Last night I scanned all the rigging and instruction sheets and emailed you with them as an attachment. Do let me know if you got them OK.

Mike

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    January 2011
Posted by Bugatti Fan on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 11:45 AM

Just a few lines about further reference sources for the Cutty Sark.   There was a book published by a company named Patrick Stephens Ltd. Author Noel Hackney that was specifically about building the smaller Airfix Cutty Sark. The book is a valuable source of information about the ship and the colours used as a good painting guide. There is another book about Modelling the Cutty Sark published by MAP (Model and Allied Publications)  Author C. Nepean Longridge. This book is about the model he built for the Science Museum in London.  Both long out of print so Ebay or secondhand book dealers will be the best place to look  (or in boxes under the tables at model shows!). A previous poster mentioned a book specifically about the Revell 1/96th scale model that I am unaware of.  I would like a bit more info about this book if possible.

As far as I am aware the George F. Campbell plans are still available from the Cutty Sark and are the best available.    Look on their website.

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 12:30 PM

Bugatti Fan,

As I mentioned on the first page of this thread - the eleventh post down from the top, I do have the George F. Campbell plans. Thanks for the other references though.

I recently bought "Masting & Rigging the Clipper Ship & Ocean Carrier" by Harold A. Underhill which, as far as I can see is and will be a valuable reference for me in my building the Cutty Sark and, in a couple of years when that's done, the Heller 1/150 Preussen. I was skeptical about ordering a used book from the web but when I received it on the second of this month I was extremely pleased with its condition. It looks brand new! Dust jacket is pristine and it's the 1976 reprint. I paid $19.99 plus $3.99 S&H for a total of $23.98 - I think a good deal.

Along with the pertinent threads I've bookmarked from this and other modeling sites, I feel I have more than enough information now to build the CS to my satisfaction. Building the Preussen will be another story and will require my continued searching for more build logs and original information on her although the book I've just referenced should help me considerably.

1943Mike

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    January 2011
Posted by Bugatti Fan on Thursday, December 29, 2011 6:46 AM

Hi Mike    Quite right, you did mention that you have the George Campbell plans in an earlier post, so you already have what I consider to be the best set available. Hopefully my post will help other modellers as to where they can obtain them..  Your mention of a Harold Underhill book that you bought jogged my memory. I think that some reprints of the the Underhill books can be sought out via a company named Brown, Son and Ferguson of Glasgow, that I saw in a catalogue of theirs a few years ago. I believe that they also stock a number of sets of sailing ship plans for modellers.

 

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