Wooden Ship Kits?

Nice thread. I'm doing a "Little Wood Flattie" in "floaters". A fun little boat.

EJ

Funny that this old thread got brought back up after 2 years!

Thanks, you guys!

Dave

Hi Whit-

Sure, I'd be willing to sell that Berlin...I doubt I'll ever get around to doing anything with it. Let me know if you'd like to *talk turkey*....we could work something out...

Dave

OK--David K.  I brought that old thread back up for you to look at.  I hope it helps.

Have you looked at the pictures of my scratch built wood ship models ?

David ;

  You did " steal that kit for sure ! Now here's one for you .I am sitting here and Looking at my " Bluenose " Of wood .No , Don't ask me who produced it .I built it mostly aboard ship in the Navy .That my friend was many years ago .

   I am presently building a Minesweeper by BaD Shipmodels . I don't know if they are even still around .I got this ship from the owner at the time when I assisted him with the WISCONSIN  model for Nauticus . If you've been there and seen the ship the CREDITS are to Keith Mullen And " Gunny ". The last is yours truly

Hello, David.  I had this kit and I have the hull planked up to the keel.  The rest of the kit got thrown out.  If you still have this available, I'd be interested.  Thanks.

Paul-

If you mean the Berlin...you're right, it was a *steal* of a deal!  

David I am calling the cops.  You just stole that model ship!  Nice find and good luck with it.

Paul

John, you're a veritable encyclopedia of model ship knowledge!

"Virginia Pilot Schooner" sounds good to me!  :)

Anyone who is familiar at all with my approach to ship modeling, knows that I'm not what you'd call a *serious* modeler, I'm more of an *imaginative* modeler...and part of that probably has something to do with a general lack of knowledge regarding real ships.  Having said that, I would like to mention that I have a great deal of respect for the *serious* modelers, and I can understand the compulsion to honor an actual subject with the pursuit of authentic detail.  And even now, as I gain more experience and understanding of ships, I find myself admiring those who dedicate themselves to such an end.  I'd bet if I ever build a Consitution, or a Victory (gulp) kit, I think I would show a greater reverance for authentic detail....

Anyway, I don't mean to run off on a ramble....

As for your second point, I have inspected the kit fittings and they seem to be in pretty good shape....no disintegration to report, so I guess this was a fortunate batch....thanks for the heads-up.

Apparently, the Katy was re-issued a few times with various updates, and I think my kit has only the original parts and instructions/plans....I'm going to call in to Model Expo and see if I can get any parts that might help me build it into the most recently-updated version....for example, the newer releases of Katy include some cardstock templates for the hull shaping, which I would like to obtain, if I can....

Thanks again for the info!  I'm looking forward to learning a few things from this kit!

Dave

David_K

Figured I would add some news to this thread, since it's kind of related...

I just bought a ModelShipways Katy of Norfolk pilot boat kit on eBay (solid hull)....it's a *vintage* version, and it is described as complete....I hope to make it my *first* completed wooden kit build.  ModelShipways kits have been recommended to me by a lot of people, and I think this kit will be a good learning project.

I'm still on the lookout for a good plastic kit (or two!), but I think in the meantime, I'll see what I can do with this Katy of Norfolk....

WIP to follow??

Does anyone know this kit, or has anyone built it?

-David

Also a nice subject.

The model railroad set was plagued almost to extinction by the problem of low temperature casting metals. Imagine if everything you younger folk can accomplish with various resins and rubbers was only achieved in lead or various casting metals?

My grandfather was a bit of a Dean in Michigan 1/48 model railroads and I have a lot of his stuff. I have worked for years to take off patterns of the trucks and steam fittings he made masters and cast in "pot" metal. Besides being unable to solder, braze, mechanically fasten or bond the stuff together, as John points out; it is bad for you and disintegrates before your eyes.

On inspection my old Gjoa which sits in my father's study seems to not given back the paint I applied to the "white metal" castings 40 years ago. i suspect those paints were the little Testors square jar enamels , the ones stamped "15 cents" on the caps. To this day those paints remain among my favorites.

The Model Shipways Katy is a fine old kit and an excellent way to break into wood shipmodeling.  A couple of points are relevant, though.

First - be aware that it's not a scale model of a real ship named Katy.  It's a skilled interpretation of a set of plans that appeared in a book published in 1824 by a French naval architect named Marestier, who designed a considerable number of Chesapeake Bay pilot schooners.  (If I remember right, this one was labeled simply "Virginia Pilot Schooner," or something like that.)  I have a feeling that Katy was the name of the wife or daughter of one of Model Shipways' owners.

Second - the one major drawback of those old MS solid-hull kits was their cast metal fittings, which were cast in a lead alloy.  Lead is one of the world's least stable materials.  There are all sorts of horror stories (most of them quite true) about lead model fittings deteriorating due to "lead disease."  The affliction, though, seems to be utterly unpredictable.  I've seen lead fittings deteriorate in a few months; I also have some that have been sitting around for years and look like new.  Your Katy is, by definition, pretty old; if the lead parts don't show the effects of age by now, my guess is that they never will.  But take a careful look at them - and if any of them has a rough, white, powdery substance on the surface, get rid of it (and wash your hands).

Here's a cool website I just found:  http://books.google.com/books?id=M7a5mqVBo1YC&pg=PA128&lpg=PA128&dq=Jean+baptiste+marestier&source=bl&ots=tX2ys4pS54&sig=kDmQUPpDlyQNBQfdoQMPaY8p55c&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Jean%20baptiste%20marestier&f=false

Figured I would add some news to this thread, since it's kind of related...

I just bought a ModelShipways Katy of Norfolk pilot boat kit on eBay (solid hull)....it's a *vintage* version, and it is described as complete....I hope to make it my *first* completed wooden kit build.  ModelShipways kits have been recommended to me by a lot of people, and I think this kit will be a good learning project.

I'm still on the lookout for a good plastic kit (or two!), but I think in the meantime, I'll see what I can do with this Katy of Norfolk....

WIP to follow??

Does anyone know this kit, or has anyone built it?

-David

I already posted this on this thred, but I will riepeat in more dietail : Use a peace of traceing paper to copy the part on your plans, and transfer it to the smoth side of an unfinished piece of 1/4" pannoleing.  Or put your traceing paper copy on a copeing machien and glue the print to a piece of pannoleing, if the pannoleing has a finished face.  The bigest advantage of this method is to make both sides of the part-sametricole---the same.  Folding the traceing paper inhalf and makeing corrections is the best way to keep your hull from looking bowed or twisted.

David,

Don't worry about cutting parts with a scroll saw; that was how it was done in the days before Laser cutting.  I had to do it with an old Aeropiccola HMS Victory and it went well.

I would cut the templates from the duplicate plans, tack them down onto a sheet of basswood, then trace them.  I have done this several times without difficulty, but you have to be careful. I also imagine that that is how the scratchbuilders create theirs; perhaps Crackers could respond.

Bill

Question:

Does anyone have some suggestions for making parts based on plans?  I want to try making the keel and bulkhead/frame parts of the Corel Berlin from scratch so I can have a fresh start with the build...

I took a page of the plans down to Staples last night and got it copied, so now I have a spare page with all the parts I need...I'm just trying to think of the best way to get these shapes drawn onto 1/4" plywood, so I can try cutting them out with the scroll saw.

I was thinking maybe carbon paper, or possibly cutting the shapes out and tracing the outline on to the wood....but it needs to be precise....Help?

Anyone?  :)

pity we are always looking for new members. we have folks who stay current but have moved to the east coast. check nautical research guild website to see if they have any clubs listed near you. and, assuming MSW is still doing their special, check out a SHIPS IN SCALE. i believe they usually have a full page ad about this.

Thanks for the advice, waynec...that's neat about MS offering credit toward future purchases, seems like a good way to encourage people to continue the hobby!

I'm in in the NW, in a small town north of Seattle...I wish there was a shipmodeling club around here...

:)

hi david

i would suggest the model shipways PHANTOM pilot boat. they usually have a special with paints and tools and, if you finish it in 6 months and send in pics you get a credit for the kit toward your next purchase. it is solid hull, fore and aft rigged, and no guns. if you have built large plastic kits, ie large enough to have blocks with the rigging, the rigging really won't be any different. i am getting ready to start the big revell AMERICA.

if you are near denver we have one of the largest wood ship clubs in the country. http://www.rockymountainshipwrights.org

I should see if I can find a *ship museum* somewhere around here...I think it would be cool to see some *real* ship stuff....the closest thing I've seen to authentic period sailing ship stuff was the Hawaiian Chieftain that came through here a couple months ago....and I thought it was really neat!

If I ever get out to the East Coast, I'm sure there would be plenty to see....most notable, the real Constitution...

And by the way Jtilley, I opened the bag of cannon parts for the Berlin....you were right on...the barrels have huge seams (read: metal flash) and aren't so impressive!  Also, their age shows....they will need quite a bit of cleaning up to be usable...  haha  The *brass* fittings all look very neat, though.....just an FYI....

Bill,  New Bedford was great except for the awful rainstorm that hit just after we got there.  I hadn't been to the Whaling Museum for many years, and I was almost awestruck at how much it's changed - for the better.  I always like museums that educate me about things I wasn't thinking about when I walked in the door.  The New Bedford Whaling Museum has the expected fine collections of ship models (Ship modeler to his wife as they're about to see the Lagoda model, on 1/2 scale [i.e., 6"=1']:  "Dear, the next time you complain that my hobby takes up too much space, please remember what happens in the next ten seconds"), scrimshaw, paintings, etc.  I wasn't expecting the anthropological exhibits on the people of the Azores, or the history of conservation.  Great place. 

Thanks for the reply, Bill!

I would like to try and reclaim the Berlin, even if only to gain some experience....at the price, it makes a good practice project, and it's possible that I could make it look alright (?)....

The trouble isn't jjust straightening the keel, because I used some dowel shims to *true* it back up....but the trouble now is that the frames have all been attached already, and now that the keel is straight, a couple of the frames are sitting at wonky angles....it's not symmetrical, and from what I can tell, symmetry is crucial at this beginning stage of construction.  If I could disassemble it, I'm sure it would be possible to get everything back in line, but the frames are quite sturdily attached with what I assume is a copious slathering of CA!

I'm racking my brain, trying to think of a way to make this thing work...I wonder if I should try tracing the plans for the keel and frame parts, get some new plywood, and try to cut them out with a scroll saw?  Though I doubt I could get the accuracy as well as a laser-cutter, maybe I could at least get the parts close to the right shape, and then assemble them with a jig and make sure they are in the right position??

I would appreciate any further advice!  :)

Dave

And, John, I have had that lobster roll you mentioned.  It is delicious!  How did you enjoy New Bedford?

Rattlesnake is a nice kit.  But, I would try to straighten the warp on the Berlin as well.  One method that I have tried with some success is to sandwich the keel piece between two pieces of basswood braces, glueing them in place to straighten the warp. Another is to wet the keel and try bending it into shape.  The key is to not give up; even if it is a total failure, you have gained practise and experience with working in wood.

One problem with some of these kits is that the keel piece sometimes comes warped.  Model Expo will replace the piece for free, no matter the company manufacturing the ship.  Although they advertise that they offer that service if you originally bought the kit from them, I have known them to replace a free part to anyone as long as they sell that kit, no matter if they were the original sellers or not.

Anyway, don't give up on the Berlin; you have been presented with a problem that can be solved.

Bill

Personaly-I enjoy scratch building hulls very much.  I have started 10 and finished nun.  Maby if I didn't injoy cutting keels and ribs from scrap pannoling with a hand held coping saw, and planking hulls by eye with a pen knife [with NO gaps], I would have finished one by now.  My advice--for whots it's worth--injoy your model.

How about some advice?

I'm thinking of beginning my foray into wooden ship modeling with a Model Shipways kit, as per the advice of some experienced builders (as opposed to starting in on an advanced HECEPOB with some partially-constructed errors)....here's one that caught my eye, and since ModelExpo often has offer codes available, I think it could be obtained for a reasonable price.

Some people have seen pics/posts of my previous efforts, and may have an idea of my skill level with plastic (still somewhat green, IMO) and maybe even know my personality a little bit...perhaps I could get an idea of the difficulty of this kit, and some gauge of others opinions as to whether I could complete it satisfactorily???  Or is it likely to become another statistic of a started and never finished relic?

I figure if I could do this one, and the instructions are clear and the kit is decent, maybe I would learn the skills needed to progress further?

It's the Rattlesnake...

www.modelexpo-online.com/product.asp

So, after some closer examination, and a little work, I have an update on the state of the Corel Berlin, and a crossroads before me.

I removed the old planking, and found that the keel (main *spine*) has a pretty bad warp in it.  So, I braced it to a straight line, and saw that the frames (or bulkheads?) are now crooked where the old keel warp was..,..so basically, the thing has been assembled crooked, and now I don't know if it's salvageable.

I had considered getting a scroll saw and tracing out the parts of the keel/frames and cutting them out myself, but it seems like it would be super-difficult to make every cut perfect, and my effort could end up worse than what I have!  We'll see....

Egads, perhaps a time reference might have been apt--was back in the early '80s for that Taney.  Or, for those Laughing Whale kits, for that matter.  A stash can be a wonderful thing--as can building a 3/4" or 1" = 1'-0" boat kit..

Now, if there were just a few more accessories for those scales, say the odd outboard motor os the like.

I built a couple of the Model Shipways solid hulls. After that I would be out of my league.