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Imai Santa Maria 1/60 (WIP)

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  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:14 AM

Dave,

Sorry to hear about your camera, bummer.  How goes the build?  I would love to see some pictures when you have them!

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, November 29, 2012 1:43 AM

David_K

Dang!  That thing IS tiny!  Neat-looking, but tiny!  And I see the forecastle...

I ordered a used copy of The Ship Illustrated, by Bjorn Landstrom from Amazon....it's an ex-library copy, hardcover....and it was only $5...good deal.

Oh I hope its a book you like. I have worn mine to tatters. There's a note from my mom on the fly leaf as a gift in 1968, and I'll bet I look at it every month.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Thursday, November 29, 2012 8:31 AM

I'm sure I'll get a lot of use out of it!  BTW, I said before that I got it from Amazon...my mistake, I actually found my copy on eBay.  It's amazing that a retail copy of a book can be 30 bucks, but a retired library copy can be found in great shape for 5 dollars, shipped!  

Steve, the build is barely off the ground so far!  I think time will be in short supply for me in the coming weeks, what with holiday events, plus we're probably moving in early January...all I've really done is basecoated the parts (wanted to get it out of the way before temps get to below freezing!)....I figure once I get some trim and detail painted, I'll put up a few pics...I'm still hemming and hawwing about the oil paint finishing, think I might start with a thin oil wash, and then slowly add some full-strength oil color with a brush...I don't want to get super-dramatic until I know what I'm doing....

        _~
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     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, December 2, 2012 5:54 PM

Got some detail-painting done today...hull, bulkhead entry, and stern...

IMG_0457 IMG_0459 IMG_0460

 

Next up is the detailing of the deck parts, then I'll  begin some sub-assembly and start in on the wash/weathering trials....

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Monday, December 3, 2012 8:56 PM

Beautiful work Dave!  I am looking forward to you weathering it.  Are you going to use Micro-Glaze from MicroMark?  I' m not sure if "glass" would be historically accurate or not.  Can Jtilley's or any of our other naval historians weigh in?  I haven't gotten that far yet in my studies......

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Tuesday, December 4, 2012 3:05 AM

Lovely work Dave. Will be following this one with interest.....Cheers mark

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Springfield, VA
Posted by crkrieser on Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:12 PM

Looks great!  What paint (color & make) did you use?

Curt

US Army, Retired

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, December 16, 2012 5:29 PM

Thanks, guys!

Curt, I like to use Testors Model Master Acrylics, airbrushed for my basecoats...my favorite colors for *wooden* subjects are Earth Red, Wood, Tan, Dark Tan, and Panzer Schokladnbraun.  The main base color for most of the parts you see here is made from Earth Red mixed with some Dark Tan.  This time I also used Tamiya Acrylic Wooden Deck Tan for the decks (no pics yet), and I really like that color, though I often have trouble with Tamiya paints in my airbrush...I can never get them the right consistency...they're either too wet, or they gum up my nozzle....anyway, it looks pretty good (thanks docidle for suggesting that color!)....

I'll be sure and post some pics after adding some weathering to the deck parts, but this project is kind of on the back burner for right now, so it might be slow-going... :)

Dave  

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:00 PM

Glass certainly existed in 1492, but it was quite expensive.  It looks to me like those diagonally-oriented "gratings" on the bulkheads are intended to represent window frames.  In those days it was normal to make a window out of lots of little panes of glass, with wood or lead muntins.  That was a way to save money:  glass in general was expensive, and good-sized panes of it were extremely difficult to make.

One of my lesser pet peeves about modern Western culture is the window with phony plastic muntins that snap into the frame.  Our house had a bunch of them; my wife and I went around and took them all out.  We recently had to buy a replacement back door; in order to get one from Lowe's without phony muntins I had to special-order it.  The glass industry had to work for centuries to develop the technology to make nice, big, flat panes of glass.  So now we snap pieces of plastic into the frames to make it look as though there are lots of little frames.

Another of my crusades is to get rid of those ridiculous overhead garage doors with phony "hinges" on the sides.  

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:30 PM

There are a number of both architectural and building-sciences reasons for faux muntins (and for faux garage doors, too).  None are much germane to ship modeling, so, I'll not engage in thread drift here.

I can add to the discussion about antique glass, though.  Before the technique of floating glass on molten tine was developed, flat planes were blown from bubbles.  These were flattened out into a disc, and the flatten part cut loose.  The disc generally retained a dimple in its middle.  That dimple was cut around to make flat panes.  Which left the dimpled center as a lower quality/cost item which could be set into cane or muntin to some visual effect.   Today, such roundel glass is now a premium-price item.

Which makes me wonder what would happen if a person turned a donut shape on the end of a metal rod and dimples thin mylar sheets in a regular pattern.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, December 17, 2012 11:08 AM

Thanks to CapnMac82 for reminding me of how to spell "muntin"; I've corrected the spelling in my earlier -post.

I confess I wonder what possible structural advantage there could be to sticking flimsy, removable plastic moldings on a perfectly good window - or fastening phony hinges to an overhead garage door.  But  CapnMac is right:  a modeling forum isn't the appropriate venue for such a discussion.

I will note that there's nothing new about "faux" features on buildings.  In the eighteenth century, painters became utterly masterful at treating wood columns, pilasters, mantel pieces, etc. to make them look like marble.  And George Washington deceived generations of visitors (and lookers at pictures) into thinking Mt. Vernon was made of stone.  (In fact it has wood siding with vertical grooves milled in it, and it's coated with a mixture of paint and coarse sand.)  

One other industry that loves to do such stuff:  the auto industry.  Early car manufacturers made wheels out of wire because there was no cheap, practical way to make them out of solid metal.  The old Ford Woodies had wood side panels because they were cheap.  And it took twenty or thirty years for the manufacturers to figure out how to stamp a hard roof out of one piece of metal.  Recent generations have indulged in fake wood grain (on the bodies of station wagons and minivans), the fake wire wheel (whose "spokes" have nothing to do with the strength of the wheel), and the vinyl top (which allegedly make the car look like a convertible, but which in fact are glued to sheet metal).

In one of my courses we ponder at some length on what such things tell us about the oddities of the human brain.  (Answer:  not much.)  But enough.  Let's get back to ship models.  My fault.

The moldings on that Imai kit appear to be nice, clean, and sharp - as that company's products usually were.  (The ship modeling world really lost something when Imai went bust.)  To my eye those window muntins are a good bit too thick, but that's undoubtedly due largely to the limitations of the molding process.  If one wanted to spend the time and money, one could trim them off and replace them with brass mesh.  (A big variety of that stuff is available these days.)  But for those who don't want to go that far, I'd suggest backing up the windows with clear plastic - maybe painted black on the back.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by dickeywood on Monday, December 17, 2012 1:05 PM

Good afternoon everyone;

Great progress on the ship and I can't wait to see the progress pics. I am sorry to get off topic but I have to shed some light on the subject of windows or as us Architects call it glazing

Prof Tilley, I am a retired Architect and let me add my 2 cents on windows or glazing.  First today's building codes dictate the energy loss is for windows both commercial and residential structures 9 one used a program called “com-check” to see if the building is in compliant). Thus we have low e glass and double and triple pain glass windows. Each of the small glass squares are called lites, and if we had real mutins the cost would skyrocket are each has to be sealed, filled with gas and some times mylar. Thus it is less expensive to to have one large lite with artificial mutins applied to the unit.

Also one can produce very realistic glass in the model by using a produce by Testors. It is cement for clear parts and makes great lites in windows.

Keep the pictures coming.

*** Wood

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, December 17, 2012 1:42 PM

Hmmm, nanny bot to the rescue I see.

Good information Mr. D ickeywood. Just for fun, as an Architect, I then pose the question as to why muntins would even be desired in a modern, triple pane assembly.

I usually use Micro Scale "Krystal Klear" as a glazing material on ships. Remember to install it AFTER putting an overall coat of matte finish on the ship, if that's to be done. White glue is pretty much the same thing. It produces a lumpy kind of finish if the opening is of any size- just the thing here. It can be tinted with water based paint as well.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:39 AM

"Krystal Klear" and Testor's "Clear Parts Maker"  (I think they're pretty much the same thing) would work, all right.  My big reservation about them has always been that they sort of "sag in the middle" - that is, as the stuff dries, it seems to stretch away from the center, with the result that the edges are thicker than the middle, and the whole thing sort of domes away from the surface.  In little tiny applications such as we're talking about here, though, I don't think that would matter significantly.  (Elmer's glue, by the way, will give almost the same effect.)

My own preference is for clear plastic - because it's flat.  I've also gotten nice results more than once by using exposed photo film - the black stuff that comes at the end of a processed roll.  (Now I'm really revealing my ancient memories.  I wonder how many people out there remember the days when you started to take pictures by loading a roll of film in your camera, and couldn't see the pictures until the drug store processed them?  Three cheers for digital photography.)  But, again, the difference between sheet plastic and those liquid products probably won't matter on those tiny Santa Maria windows.  (One tip, though:  if you use the liquid stuff, don't follow my earlier suggestion about painting the backs.  The paint is likely to dissolve the windows.  I know (don't ask how) that's what happens when you try to brush acrylic paint on the stuff.  I'm not sure what would happen if you used an airbrush.

Re windows - my thinking is along the same lines as Mr. Morrison's.  The phony muntins I'm talking about can't possibly add anything structurally.  (If they did, I would have had a serious problem during the past 18 years, since I took all of them out of my windows and piled them up in the attic.)  Mr. Dickeywood's comment makes sense if we start with the assumption that the homeowner really wants his/her windows to look like they were made from lots of little lights.  My fundamental question is:  why would anybody want his/her windows to look like that?  I guess the answer is:  for the same reason he/she likes phony wire-spoked wheels and a vinyl top on his/her car.  Non-convertible car roofs no longer need to be made out of fabric, wheels don't need to have wire spokes, and windows don't need to be made up of little tiny panes of glass.

My father taught architecture at Ohio State for about forty years, and in his latter years frequently complained about stuff like this.  He did, however, give me a bum steer on a couple of other vaguely similar, modern phenomena.  He ripped two lovely old fireplaces out of the family residence (built around 1912), claiming they were stupid in a house that now had a furnace.  And he always held ceiling fans in contempt (in an air-conditioned house).  When my wife and I bought a house with a fireplace and half a dozen ceiling fans (every one of which I've had to replace since then - and I'm thoroughly sick of that job), I came to realize that the fireplace and the ceiling fan most definitely have roles to play in a modern house. 

I now teach a course in historic preservation and realize that, in the context of the preservation ethic, Dad wrecked that nice old house.  (To be fair, the preservation ethic didn't exist when he was swinging the sledge hammer at the fireplaces.)  If I were hiring an architect to design my wife and me a house today, it would have at least one fireplace and a couple of ceiling fans.  But it wouldn't have phony plastic window muntins.

Interesting stuff to ponder - but enough.  This is a ship modeling forum.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

Moderator
  • Member since
    September 2011
Posted by Tim Kidwell on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:37 AM

Hey guys,

Let's move the architecture-muntin-garage-door-fireplace commentary over to the FSM Ready Room. As you say, this is a ship modeling forum.

Thanks,

Tim

--

Timothy Kidwell
tkidwell@firecrown.com
Editor
Scale Model Brands
Firecrown Media

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:36 PM

Agreed.  My fault.  I'm on vacation and I guess I've got more time on my hands than is good for me.  Sorry.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:48 PM

I share the blame. Back to the ship though, I can't find any drawings or photos of either of the replicas with those diamond panes.It seems like a pretty fussy detail, given the fairly base nature of these ships. I don't own the "Anatomy" edition, maybe it's from there.

Another and perhaps more common glazing material would have been flattened sheets of animal horn, or even skin stretched tight.

Or my suspicion would be an arrangement of a wooden hatch, like a gun port, and some heavy curtains inside.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Springfield, VA
Posted by crkrieser on Sunday, December 23, 2012 4:51 PM

Thanks for the info on the paint used.

I recently bought the Revell 1/90 Santa Maria for my stash and have that on my "future build list."  I built that kit (I should say attempted to build that kit) about 50 years back when I was in grade school.  At this point I'm in the info gathering mode for building and finishing techniques.  I haven't built a ship model since then.  My focus all these years has primarily been aircraft and US artillery pieces.

Many thanks for the info.  I'll be watching for your updates.

Curt

US Army, Retired

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Monday, December 24, 2012 2:18 PM

Sure thing, Curt!  Good luck with your build....I hope to see some pics/updates once you get started!  And remember, there is a HUGE group of people here who love to share advice and insight!  If not for the folks on this forum, I would not have pursued model ship building this far!

I've been lucky enough to find some time to work this morning, and I wanted to share a couple of update pics...applied some weathering to the deck parts with oil paint...they came out okay!  Please take a look:

Here's a deck piece with just a basecoat (Tamiya Wooden Deck Tan, acrylic, airbrushed) and a thin black oil wash... IMG_0466 Here's another piece with the basecoat and wash, PLUS a *weathering* coat of artists oils... IMG_0467 IMG_0468 I was kind of taking it easy. because I didn't really know how it would look, so it's not very dramatic...but I'm happy with it, for a first try! IMG_0469

 

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Springfield, VA
Posted by crkrieser on Monday, December 24, 2012 3:12 PM

Dave, looks great!

Curt

US Army, Retired

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Monday, December 24, 2012 4:53 PM

Dave,

Looking GOOD!

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Monday, December 24, 2012 5:28 PM

Thanks, Guys!  

Steve, I learned a lot from you!  Happy Holidays, everyone!

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 10:03 PM

Dave,

Are you going to make the hull darker then?  As I said before, well done my Padawan apprentice.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Thursday, December 27, 2012 4:07 AM

Am liking what you have done so far.....Cheers mark

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Thursday, December 27, 2012 8:39 AM

Padawan! ....I've always been a huge fan of Star Wars!

You know, I didn't realize how much the oils would darken up my base coat (which was super light)...so it is quite a bit darker than I expected....luckily, the hull is basecoated in a darker color already, so yeah, I guess it'll end up pretty dark after the oils go on...hopefully not too dark, but I always like the hull to be darker than the deck...

I got a pretty good black wash on the hull the other day, so maybe this afternoon I'll start in with the oil weathering...there's so much *texture* to the outer hull of the SM, what with all the wales or whatever, it's going to be very 3D!!

I'll post some before and after pics of the hull when I get some more done...and you'll notice I didn't make a below-waterline hull color...it's all one base color.  :)

Thanks!

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Thursday, December 27, 2012 3:32 PM

Dave,

With the black wash you're going to get a darker tone no matter what.  The cool thing is that it will look like Rod Millard's ships which is no small thing!  So don't fret too much l

Because it is looking good!

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Friday, December 28, 2012 4:06 PM

Thanks, Steve!  The two people who have inspired me to try this finishing technique are yourself and Rod Millard...both of your painting styles share some elements, but they both have distinct looks to them....I've tried to develop something of an *in-between* method...using some thinner washes (just to help fill in the corners and add more depth), plus a more dramatic dry-brush blend with the oils.  Of course, I have a bunch to learn, but I have to say--I'm digging these oil paints in a big way!  

Anyway, I got some more time to work on it today (!!), so I weathered the hull halves...here's a few pics:

Here's a hull half with just the base paint and a thin wash for darker corners:

 

IMG_0470 Then I basically slathered on a bunch of oil paint, being careful to get it into every little nook and cranny: IMG_0471 Then I purposefully and meticulously blended the oils, them removed a lot to reveal *relief* texture: IMG_0472 Here's a pic of the left side. Like I said..not as dramatic as some of Docidle's stuff, but I think it looks okay! IMG_0473 Here's a (blurry) comparison shot of before & after: IMG_0474

 

Hope you guys like it!

Now I have to start thinking of how I want to approach the display base/stand...the kit came with something, but I've seen cooler stands made by some of you guys, so maybe I'll look into that a bit more...I get the feeling I need to decide before I install any deck parts, so I can drill through the keel or whatever...but there's definitely some assembly in my future!!!

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Friday, December 28, 2012 4:42 PM

Looks like real wood to me. Well done!

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, December 28, 2012 11:17 PM

Quickly my two bits about your stand.

First of all the keel is not level- it has draft. So two pegs the same length won't do. And she's small so a light touch is needed.

Second, a little in the older style would be good. Not sure what that means but a guess might be a little wrought iron or some such.

A very nice job so far David. I stand by a comment I made to another of the forum members off line. You are a star.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Friday, December 28, 2012 11:45 PM

Dave,

You should be very pleased with the results.  The painting looks awesome!  Well done bud.

Steve

       

 

 

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