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Heller Soleil Royal (WIP)

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  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, July 27, 2015 10:33 AM

LOL!

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, July 27, 2015 10:43 AM

Bill, where'd you learn this pleasant piece of news? When I google "Mamoli models" all I get are ads.

The Model Expo website seems to confirm the story. ME has been a Mamoli distributor for as long as I can remember.  As of a few minutes ago, the categories "Mamoli fittings" and "Mamoli wood ship models" were both marked "empty."

That leaves Model Expo with one line of HECEPOBS: Corel (which is just about as bad as Mamoli). And all but one of the Corel kits is marked either "out of stock" or "special order."

Can it be that the era of HECEPOBdom is coming to an end?

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, July 27, 2015 10:50 AM

I Yahooed! (cringe!)  "Mamoli fire". Online retailers are selling the kits at discount stating that there was a fire. Several other sites include that in discussions. There's no way of verifying any of this without either (a) a report from the source, or further digging. I suppose the Blue Jacket folks would know.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, July 27, 2015 11:00 AM

Here's a link to a discussion of the fire at the Modelshipworld forum, which is run by the Nautical Research Guild: modelshipworld.com/.../8068-mamoli-fire . There's not much room for doubt: Mamoli is gone - at least for the time being.

The demise of any HECEPOB company is good news for scale ship modelers. Let's just hope they don't take any of the good wood ship model firms (Model Shipways, Bluejacket, Calder/Jotika, and a few others) with them. Given the apparent decision by plastic kit manufacturers to abandon the sailing ship, the available sailing ship kit market is now mighty small.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, July 27, 2015 11:23 AM

Or Midwest...

The Mamoli Victory is on Amazon, marked down from $ 831.99 to $ 499.99.

Might be $ 299.99 by the end of the month.

Still saving for my tablesaw!

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, July 27, 2015 12:31 PM

Every ad for a HECEPOB kit I've seen has had a "Regular Price" tag, alongside an "Our Bargain Price" tag. I figure the manufacturers and distributors do that to make people who shell out hundreds of sheckels on those...things...think they're getting a bargain.

I really can't discuss the question of HECEPOB prices objectively, because I think the...things...are utterly worthless - except maybe as firewood.

End of rant. Please forgive my enthusiasm over the end of a company that I've always regarded as a blight on the world of scale ship modeling.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, July 27, 2015 12:41 PM

Regarding Sovereign of the Seas kit - I'm pretty sure the Sergal and Mantua kits are identical. (That kit is often held up by serious scale modelers as the ultimate, and most expensive) demonstration of the horrors of HECEPOBdom.) I think the old Airfix kit was great for its day, and can still serve as the basis for a fine, serious scale model. I wish Airfix would reissue it - along with the other grand old sailing ships that Airfix used to make. At the moment, the only Airfix sailing ships are the tiny Cutty Sark, Victory, and Mary Rose, the big Victory, the big Golden HInd, the big Cutty Sark, and the Wasa. (The Airfix modern warship line has also been gutted.)

I don't think I've ever seen the Aurora and Pyro/Lindberg Sovereign of the Seas kits "in the flesh." But it's hard to believe they could outclass the Airfix one.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, July 27, 2015 1:36 PM

I learned sometime last year about the fire from Ages of Sail.  I noted that, when I was exploring their website, there was no heading for Mamoli. I called and asked about the reason since I was so surprised.  Anyway, I am glad that they won't be polluting the ship model industry, at least for awhile.  John, I will get back to you soon about the Pyro/Lindbergh and the Aurora kits. I have them all.

Bill

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, July 27, 2015 2:38 PM

Gentlemen,

I'll begin with the Aurora kit.  As you would expect of most sailing ship kits in the early days of manufacturing plastic models, the sails are the heavy, solid plastic sails and are molded directly onto the yards. All sails and yards for each mast come as a single piece.  There are no planking detail on the hull. All decks are of a single piece.  The shrouds and ratlines are all the heavy, solid plastic typically found throughout that era.  The cannons are simple dummy barrels, and  the gun port lids are molded directly onto the hull.  The gold decorations are well molded onto the hull, and the lines look reasonably accurate.

The Pyro/Lindbergh kit is larger than the Aurora kit but smaller than that of Airfix.  It does have hull planking detail, unlike the Airfix or Aurora kits.  All gun ports are opened but the cannons are simple dummy barrels molded directly onto strips of plastic, all cannons for each level of gun deck are molded on a single port and starboard strip with the barrels placed to project from the open ports.  It would be relatively simple to scratch build decks and find replacement cannons from the spare parts box or from other kits of similar scale.  All deck levels are separate pieces. However, Pyro/Lindbergh provides the same solid sails/yardarm configuration of the Aurora kit.

I believe that the Pyro/Lindbergh kit is better in some ways than the Airfix kit.  The hull is beautiful with its wood planking the detail of the gold work, multi-piece decks, and the open gun ports. It is inferior to the Airfix kit in the sails, separate yards, the sails, and overall size.  Therefore, it is a toss up.

All three look like their hull lines are accurate.

Bill

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, October 4, 2015 5:23 PM

Hey All-

As the Summer has suddenly become Autumn, I find myself spending a few more hours here and there attending to my model of the Soleil Royal.

Today I got a lot of the stern work finished, so I figure this is a good time to share a few pics.

I have to say, there was much trouble with part-fit.  Lots of little pieces just plain don't fit the way they should (and the way pretty much EVERY Imai kit does)...

Anyway, my good friends Super Glue and Rubber Band have been a big hlep so far, and I'm sure I can count on them for more supprot in the future!  lol

Please have a look at the following:

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Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, October 4, 2015 5:25 PM

Phew!  I was a little worried that the pics might not come through, since I haven't done anything since the new site update...glad to find that things are pretty much the same in that area. :)

 

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     _!__!__!_         
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Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Sunday, October 4, 2015 5:32 PM

David,

That's amazing paint work! It looks absolutely grand!

Mike

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Sunday, October 4, 2015 5:34 PM

Dave,

Pretty dang gorgeous! I am sure glad that SuperGlue came to the rescue....

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Sunday, October 4, 2015 5:42 PM

beautiful as ever dave., really loving this build.,alway's said I would do this ship again , now I have something to aspire too

 

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Sunday, October 4, 2015 5:55 PM

That is some stunning artwork my Friend.....Cheers mark

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Monday, October 5, 2015 8:33 AM

Fantastic work.  It is amazing to think those vessels didn't just capsize as soon as they hit the water.

Great job.....bro.

 

Rob

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Monday, October 5, 2015 8:37 AM

Thanks, guys!  I think the stern is pretty much done, except for the lanterns, which I'll leave off until masts and rigging are closer to being done....lanterns are magnets for snap-offery.

Next steps include some more bow work (more of the goldwork!), and then I believe it's about time to start installing chainplates, then masts and rigging will follow.  I started this kit January first of this year, and I figure I'll have the main hull assembly done within a couple months.  Since I'm planning on installing *simplified rigging* (standing rigging + lifts, braces, halyards, and clewlines) it shouldn't be more than a year before she's done. 

But only time will tell!

Thanks again for tuning in...I'll post another update once I get the bow assembly finished.

Dave

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     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, October 5, 2015 11:15 AM

Actually, if a full-size version of the Heller kit actually had existed, I think it might well have capsized. Comparing the photos of Dave's superb work on the stern with the contemporary stern views (which have been posted several times in the Forum), it's pretty obvious that the stern - like the rest of the hull - is too tall for its breadth. Combine that with the fact that Heller made the topmasts too tall, and we have a recipe for another Wasa disaster.

Dave, your plan for the rigging makes sense. If you go that route, you'll have plenty of rigging to look impressive, without driving yourself crazy. (I rigged mine with furled sails and all the rigging I could, but it didn't drive me crazy. That happened several years earlier.) You've got a copy of Dr. Anderson's The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast - right? Use the book as your instruction manual for rigging, and throw out the Heller rigging diagrams. And remember to mount the yards in their lowered positions.

So far it looks utterly exquisite. On the basis of your earlier models, I think it's only going to get better. Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Tuesday, October 6, 2015 8:31 AM

Thanks, John.

Yes, I have Anderson's book...at first, I thought it was lacking in clear, definite terms of rigging instruction.  I guess I was expecting it to be more like Petersson's book, full of detailed diagrams.  BUT,pretty soon I realized that it really is a concise and thorough reference for the subject matter.  Pictures are small, but they really aren't even necessary, except for showing any unusual or elaborate runs (like some of the insane crowsfeet, or the complex tackles)....basically the book is broken down into chapters by rigging section, and it's pretty easy to leaf through it to find whatever specific line I'm looking for, and voila!  I can instantly know where the line starts, where it goes, and where it ends. 

Anytime the SR instructions call for a block or a rigging line (I haven't actually run any lines yet, save for the Gammoning on the bow, but I have been attaching blocks to parts for later), I can reference the location in Anderson's book, and easily find out if it's a legitimate part of the rigging, and proceed accordingly.  So far, some of the rigging that I've cross-referenced is correct, while some is at least partially wrong.

The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast, R.C. Anderson.

Anyone building the SR will need this book.

I'm excited to be falling back into a modeling *groove*...didn't get much done on it this summer (though I guess getting the quarter galleries and stern finished is pretty good progress)...but I expect the coming months to be productive and exciting.

One thing in the current progress queue....the main lantern.  If anyone here has built this kit and remembers what the deal is with the lantern assembly, I would appreciate some context.  It looks like "flowery" part of the lantern base is supposed be pushed up and "folded" around the "glass"?  I'm not sure if I'm reading the plans wrong....anybody remember how they assembled the lanterns?  Never mind the fact that the clear plastic is supposed to be painted with super-tiny lines of gold around each pane...that's gonna be fun!
Thanks again!  It's good to back among the active members of the forum!

Dave

 

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     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2014
Posted by kpnuts on Sunday, October 11, 2015 1:27 PM

Sir I have just read this wip from start to here, what a build, I was eyeing this but I know for a fact I don't have the skills to build it ( I would have to build oob and then would struggle ) at least you have shown me that, an incredible build so far.

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, October 11, 2015 2:14 PM

Hi kpnuts-

Thanks for kind words!

I've seen your builds on here, and I was particularly impressed with what you did with your La Reale de France...

Honestly, the Soleil Royal isn't a super-difficult kit to build...it is definitely a commitment, and one that requires the builder to look ahead and not be too anxious to reach completion.  I think some people consider it to be a 10-year project, and some people could finish it in 6 months....all depends on the level of additional work somebody might wish to put in (extra parts, scratchbuilding, error corrections), as well as available time to spend with hobbying.  For me, I'm addressing *some* kit errors, adding *some* extra stuff, and I allow myself a decent amount of time each week for hobbying (except during Summer, when there's too many other things to do!)...I generally give myself a couple hours a day, a couple times a week for shipbuilding, and I expect to have this kit finished within a two-year total construction time (one year for hull construction [almost done with that, on schedule] and one year for masting and rigging)...

Anyway, it does have its problems...mostly part fit and messy instructions, but it's a very fun project.  Even OOB it's a good kit.  You could build it.  Tell you what:  It would be a great test of your gold leafing skills!  So much gold on this kit...

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2014
Posted by kpnuts on Sunday, October 11, 2015 2:59 PM

Much as I love this ship (or at least Hellers depiction of it) I don't have the skills to build it ootb let alone correct the errors, as for the rigging i have no chance of attempting that,look at the mess I made of the La Reale or the SOTS. I take my hat off to you 

  • Member since
    March 2014
Posted by kpnuts on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 11:31 AM

Well I just checked out the ultimate build guide on here and I have to say decision made if I had built it, it would be mostly ootb as my scratch building and knowledge of ships is very limited, but why would I spend 2 yrs building a model that is considered "laughable " as a representation of a scale model. 

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 11:51 AM

Well, I'm going to try my best to not get defensive of the Heller SR kit, but "laughable"?

That's one of the things that perturbs me about a certain mindset of certain modelers.

I, too, read the so-called Ultimate Build Guide thread on here, hoping to learn a lot about construction techniques, pitfalls in sequencing, and general tips.  Instead, I found that thread a descent into bashing the shortcomings of the kit, with so many people showing off their knowledge of *real ships* by highlighting the errors made by Heller in the design of the kit.

Following that build guide (please, there's no offense intended to the creator or participants of that thread) will only lead readers into a pretty much neverending labyrinth of scratchbuilding, modification, and headache.  I turned away from it and never looked back.

Instead, I follow a different set of tenets for modelbuilding:

My reasons for building models (of whatever subject) are so that I can have a fun challenge, something to keep my mind and hands busy during free time, and so that I can produce something that is visually pleasing (to me) when it's finished.  I like to learn and improve my skills during the journey, and hopefully feel pretty proud of the final outcome.

I won't go into the list of things people would like to change about the SR kit, but I've changed the things that matter to me (it's a short list) and I have zero problem with the way my "model" ship is turning out.

Please, I beg you, don't be discouraged by the naysaying.  kpnuts, maybe you're not ready to build the SR yet, and maybe you will never want to build it (I waited until I had several model ships under my belt to attempt it)....but if you ever do want to tackle it, I would implore you to ignore anyone but yourself when making a decision.

On the other hand, if authenticity and accurate detail are of paramount importance to you, then you have the information you need.

Sorry for the rant.  I do tend to be defensive.  I've been fortunate enough that those-who-find-the-kit-lacking have been supportive of my endeavor without bringing up that negativity so far...and I appreciate it.

It takes all kinds to make a world.

Dave

 

 

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2014
Posted by kpnuts on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 1:40 PM

I too looked at that so called guide and soon realised there was no help there at all it just turned into a slag off of what in my humble opinion is a stunningly beautiful ship, I have been doing a bit of digging tonight too and it is apparently not beyond the bounds od possibilty that the heller hull is not far out as there were other ships of a similar size with similar proportions. 

I always remember I used to live near cystal palace in london and (dont know if its still ther but there used to be an island in the middle of the lake with lifesize models of som dinosaurs on it built as the so called experts said they would have been, one of thos dino's(cant remember the name, I think it was an Iguanodon) was depicted with sharp horns sticking up from its paws\claws whatever you want to call them, in 1970 they discovered a whole skeleton and those horns wer on its nose. so what do experts know really. maybe just maybe, watch out in the future maybe there will be another build log and maybe I will be pestering you for info. 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 3:04 PM

Folks are entitled to their opinions. I'd only get upset if someone challenged mine in a rude way, but it's entirely fair to disagree.

Where I would criticize that kit, and I've certainly never built it, would be if someone were to buy it, become frustrated and throw it at the wall, and never try another ship. That seems irresponsible for Heller. The ideal approach is as you've done, to maintain a loose attitude and work your way through some better and more manageable kits first.

Also Dave, you are naturally gifted at this, able to overcome some pretty poor kits.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 5:01 PM

David_K

Well, I'm going to try my best to not get defensive of the Heller SR kit, but "laughable"?

That's one of the things that perturbs me about a certain mindset of certain modelers.

I, too, read the so-called Ultimate Build Guide thread on here, hoping to learn a lot about construction techniques, pitfalls in sequencing, and general tips.  Instead, I found that thread a descent into bashing the shortcomings of the kit, with so many people showing off their knowledge of *real ships* by highlighting the errors made by Heller in the design of the kit.

Following that build guide (please, there's no offense intended to the creator or participants of that thread) will only lead readers into a pretty much neverending labyrinth of scratchbuilding, modification, and headache.  I turned away from it and never looked back.

Instead, I follow a different set of tenets for modelbuilding:

My reasons for building models (of whatever subject) are so that I can have a fun challenge, something to keep my mind and hands busy during free time, and so that I can produce something that is visually pleasing (to me) when it's finished.  I like to learn and improve my skills during the journey, and hopefully feel pretty proud of the final outcome.

I won't go into the list of things people would like to change about the SR kit, but I've changed the things that matter to me (it's a short list) and I have zero problem with the way my "model" ship is turning out.

Please, I beg you, don't be discouraged by the naysaying.  kpnuts, maybe you're not ready to build the SR yet, and maybe you will never want to build it (I waited until I had several model ships under my belt to attempt it)....but if you ever do want to tackle it, I would implore you to ignore anyone but yourself when making a decision.

On the other hand, if authenticity and accurate detail are of paramount importance to you, then you have the information you need.

Sorry for the rant.  I do tend to be defensive.  I've been fortunate enough that those-who-find-the-kit-lacking have been supportive of my endeavor without bringing up that negativity so far...and I appreciate it.

It takes all kinds to make a world.

Dave

 

 

 

 

Well said David,

First, I want to say, some of us are model builders, and then there are artisans, you are the latter.  Very beautiful piece of work. I really like your style.   In regards to your post, the Heller kits can turn out to be wonderful works of art and for me, have been and enjoyment because they have such deep detial that allows for depth and expression when it comes to painting. 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 6:29 PM

Artisan?  I like the sound of that! :)

Thank you guys for the compliments!

I agree with what you said about Heller's kits. I've only built this one, but many consider their Victory to be one of the finest model ships ever designed, so they definitely have what it takes to make great kits.  I really wish they would design some more large-scale model ships.  Using modern technology, Heller could blow us away with something super-duper!  It's unlikely, though....the market is so small for sailing ship kits, it's a big investment and a low-return risk...bean-counters will probably not go for it.  :(

Anyways, I was going over some past posts on this thread, and realized I forgot to include some pics I took while working on the galleries...so let's take a step back in time, and I'll add a couple here:

First, I traced the outline of a gallery onto some Evergreen (.020" I think) flat sheet

Cut it out to match the profile

Then I attached some sheet at a right angle to act as the gallery floor, and cut out some notches around the gunport and also some small divots that were in the way of the wale/gallery mating surface so I could achieve a close fit to the hull

After some test fitting and fine tuning of the shape, I also made some small rectangular strips to fill in the corners between the gallery and the stern (did this for both sides)

Final test fit, and it looked pretty good.

I then glued on the previously-removed panels from the galleries to the new false-wall of the hull, painted everything, and voila!  Here's another picture (that I've already posted here once) that shows the gallery in place....you can see that the foremost panels from the gallery windows are not installed on the hull behind it....the reason for this is that they were from a curved surface (those fore windows were curved), and after I flattened them down, they didn't look right.  The outline of them was not even close to being square/rectangular, and they looked out of place.  So I left them off.  Now, however, I feel like that fore section would look better if I'd put something (anything) there, because it looks pretty empty behind the first windows...oh, well...not the end of the world.

Thanks for looking, I hope this adds something useful to the thread.

Dave

 

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        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 6:35 PM

Gorgeous work, David.

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 9:56 PM

I really love your build's dave .,I have done the ship before , and have never been really happy with my build . I will do it again , but I will wait to you have finished your's so I can really study ,where I can do a lot better effort , funny though it's my wife's favourite ship of mine , go figure !!

 

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