SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

Heller Soleil Royal (WIP)

66515 views
575 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Friday, February 12, 2016 5:58 PM

I just discovered a mistake I made with this build, and thought I would share it here, for any who follow and want to keep an eye out for it.  (bear in mind that most people might have noticed this right off the bat, but I feel lucky that I caught in in the nick of time)....

I was reading ahead in the plans and referencing Anderson regarding some stay tackles, and noticed that the 3 aftmost lower deadeyes on the fore and main channels are meant for backstays, and thus require smaller diameter deadeyes.

Earlier in the project, I attached the channels and simply attached a deadeye of the size for that particular masts shroud.  Very glad that I didn't run 3 extra shrouds on each mast before I realized and had to remove them later, when it could be much more inconvenient!

Anyway, just a heads up...8 shrouds foremast, 9 shrouds mainmast.  (my new mantra)

Also, as a side note, I was further fortunate that the snafu with Ages of Sail left me with extra lower deadeye strops, now I have enough to fix the issue withough having to wait another month and a half to get replacements of the correct size!  Bonus!

One more also, I've stropped the new deadeyes with the strops before blackening them, and I'll just toss the whole enchilada into the blacken it solution and see if it has any effect on the wood.  If not, that's a good thing, because deforming the strops to fit them over the deadeyes AFTER blackening usually loosens a good deal of the coating and it can flake off.

Thanks for reading!
Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Friday, February 12, 2016 5:47 PM

Thanks, Brochacho!

I've been gambling with the kit-supplied spars, so far the lower stuff is holding up just fine, but I'm nervous about the integrity of some of those t-gallant mast parts...

You and Rob both have some methods for alleviating the sinkholes and pinmarks that sound pretty easy to tackle...thanks, guys!  I'll keep them in mind, and I hope others will, too. :)

Star Wars?  Dude.  I could go on for awhile...but for the sake of brevity here, one word:

Amazing.

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:02 PM

Beautiful work on the bowsprit bud. Are you using the masts and spars from the kit or are you replacing them with wood?

Regarding the ejection marks, I try and get rid of them but either filling with Green putty or a combination of sheet styrene punched to size and then some putty. Bit with the beautiful work you do, the majority of people checking out this beauty, will never notice.

Steve

A non sequitur, I need to email you and find out what you thought of the new Star Wars movie.

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Thursday, February 11, 2016 1:35 PM

thank's dave . I kinda feel the same , can't see them adding much to the finished product , might be able to use them on another project .

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Thursday, February 11, 2016 8:14 AM

Steve-

229 and 230 are spare spars...basically, just extra wood for the ship (mast/yard parts, other structural wood, etc.)....those #s are part of larger group meant to be bundled and stacked on deck, near the boats.

Honestly, I painted mine, got them arranged on deck in various ways, and kinda felt like I didn't want them there.  Now they live in the parts box until I either a) convince myself to put them on the deck anyway; or b) throw them out.

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 8:38 PM

dave can you tell me what parts 229 , 230 ,are for , the imai insructions say to put them on the quarter deck . but blowed if I know what they do, they are on page 15.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 3:34 PM

David_K

Thanks for the input, fellas!

Never heard of Cuticle Nippers, George (aka George C Scott, aka Gmorrison!)....I'm sure my wife must have some around the house...hmmm....lol

A quick google search shows that they look similar to a fine-pointed scissor/sidecutter...might just have to pick up a pair.  I've been using a Fiskars MicroTip little scissor and it works pretty well, but I'm all for experimenting with an upgrade.  Thanks for the tip.

Sure. I also have those scissors, or ones like them. They are indispensible. The cuticle nippers are side cutters, they do a good job of chopping hard things, in particular the little stub of line left when you've seized or served a line, glued it, and then cut the thread off with scissors as closely as you can to the knot. They don't cut soft thread very well.

 

Excellent work there.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 9:54 AM

It is my friend. You can fill gaps...and the easy part it carves out nicely and can even be carved if need be..then painted over.  So long as the repair is not structural..it is very reliable.  The notion that it will melt..means your model will be melting from the heat as well...if it gets that hot in the first place......Hmm

 

Good luck.

Rob

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 8:42 AM

That's a really good tip, Rob!  Sounds pretty simple, too!
Thanks :)

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Tuesday, February 9, 2016 1:35 PM

Ejector pin recesses are easy to fix.  First melt some candle wax, Parafin will work..then use a small metal applicator and fill in the depression..when dry carve flush with a knife or suitable tool.  Paint and there you go....gone.

 

Unless you're planning on letting your model get hot..I mean real hot...you have nothing to fear.

 

Rob(I've been doing this for 30 years and have seen no issues)

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Tuesday, February 9, 2016 8:42 AM

Thanks for the input, fellas!

Never heard of Cuticle Nippers, George (aka George C Scott, aka Gmorrison!)....I'm sure my wife must have some around the house...hmmm....lol

A quick google search shows that they look similar to a fine-pointed scissor/sidecutter...might just have to pick up a pair.  I've been using a Fiskars MicroTip little scissor and it works pretty well, but I'm all for experimenting with an upgrade.  Thanks for the tip.

John, it's a shame that this kit has so many sinkholes, ejector-pin marks, etc...I won't be going to great pains to remedy them, but it's worth mentioning that, for those who can't look past these flaws, they are here in abundance and will require a great deal of attention to fix.

Good point about the rigging.  Most of the kits I've built (with the exception of the Black Swan and maybe the Chebec) have had simplified running rigging...halyards, lifts, braces.  But with the Golden Hind, it was suggested that I include clewlines and blocks on the yards since I was displaying furled sails.  I did it, and I liked the effect, and it helped with the bundling of the sails to the yard.  My Soleil Royal will also have furled sails (I have been saving up shoebox tissue paper to experiment with), so I'm going the same route with the clewlines. No buntlines, bowlines, sheets, or any other sail gear.  I think it should turn out okay.

Anyway, thanks again for the suggestions!  :)

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2014
Posted by kpnuts on Tuesday, February 9, 2016 12:42 AM

Superb work dave.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, February 9, 2016 12:40 AM

Looks great, Dave. Except for those ugly sink marks on the sides of the spritsail topmast cap, which are Heller's fault - not yours. Also, it appears that the cap is tapered on both sides when viewed from forward - to make it easier to free from the mold. It should be flat on both the top and the bottom. If you think these molding flaws are worth fixing, it could still be done with a file.

If you're leaving off the "sail gear," you can safely omit the clewlines; they're really in that category. A model with halyards, lifts, and braces for running rigging will look entirely reasonable - as long as the sails aren't there.

Hang in there.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Tuesday, February 9, 2016 12:31 AM

do they cut neater than small nail scissors g morrison

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, February 8, 2016 11:04 PM

Outstanding work, Dave. I just bought a pair, well two pairs, of cuticle nippers. The first ones were the cheapest at CVS and lasted a couple hours, the next are still going strong.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Saturday, February 6, 2016 9:21 AM

Thanks, Steve!  I'm a big Beatles fan Cool

I haven't recorded any songs in a while...I should probably put a couple more videos up on youtube...

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, February 6, 2016 4:48 AM

just saw the nowhere man , not bad my man not bad .,

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Monday, January 25, 2016 10:41 PM

Beautiful work as always bud. 

On the sequence of stepping masts, I have seen it done numerous ways, so I think you are going to have to find what works best for you.

Personally, I try to figure out what I need to secure to the various fife rails and belaying pins and rigging those first. I figure I can rigg them backwards and save myself some headaches. Also, try and get all the blocks that need to be added to the tops, etc... rigged. Then build and rigg all the lower masts.  Working up from inside out. Rigging as much of the yards as possible before attaching them. Heck, you know the drill.

However, John and Bill's methods are just as valid. In fact they are probably better. I really like John's method of mixing things up to save your sanity. Unfortunately, I am already as mad as a hatter, so save yourself, it is already too late for me.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Monday, January 25, 2016 7:48 PM

Not a big progress report, but I did spend a couple of hours in the garage today, oiling up the mast and masttop parts...I actaully have very few parts left in the box that I'll be using.

Anyway, here's a couple of pics showing the numerous parts for the masts (they'll probably need at least to week to cure in this cold weather)

 

  " alt="" />  " alt="" />

  " alt="" />

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2014
Posted by kpnuts on Friday, January 22, 2016 3:43 PM

Yep its a shame steve5 can't seem to post pics (I'm totally useless with that sort of stuff so can't help)(if it was a hardware problem I could probably sort it, I built my own pc)

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Friday, January 22, 2016 3:36 PM

Completed some touch-up work to the mast parts this week, hoping to get some weathering done to them pretty soon, then I'll have some more progress to report....

Side note:  Looks like we have 3 separate SR WIPs going now on the forum!!  That's very cool, and it has to be some kind of record!  Glad to see people giving her a try, and I'm looking forward to Kpnuts and Steve5 make some progress!  Kpnuts is using the gold leaf for his, and it looks amazing!

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, January 18, 2016 7:45 PM

Is this about what you're talking about, Bill?

I have a little trouble swallowing the holes under the big knee that connects the knee of the head to the stem, but that could be explained by the transition between the original drawing and the engraving. (The engraving probably was tinted by somebody other than the original artist.)

This is fairly typical of the bow construction of a seventeenth-century warship - French or English. The English were in the habit of running the fore tacks through holes in the knee of the head, and adding carved ornaments around the holes.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March 2014
Posted by kpnuts on Monday, January 18, 2016 5:02 PM

I'm definitely interested. 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, January 18, 2016 4:53 PM

See my PM Bill regarding photo posting

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, January 18, 2016 4:42 PM

I just found drawings that seem to confirm a suspicion I have had ever since seeing the bow section painting by Berain about that troublesome hole in the knee of the head.  The text is a French text about the French sailing navies in the 17th and 18th centuries.  These drawings contain sources from the Musee de la Marine in Paris.

They appear to show that the hole should be there BUT was filled with carvings  that took the weight.  I would post the pics but have never learned how to do so.  I would be willing to send copies to anyone who is interested.  It is an interesting possible solution to that hole in the Heller model.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, January 17, 2016 7:29 PM

My experience with wood spars is that the ones I've included get stained, that takes a while, and suggests that all of the parts get finished, then assembled on the boat. John points out the soldering issue- I only wish I were so organized.

Plastic models I tend to paint with the airbrush. Those work better for me all glued together, puttied, cleaned up etc. then painted as an assembly. It's hard to glue painted plastic parts together.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, January 17, 2016 5:42 PM

Well, the best I can offer is to describe the sequence I used the last time I built a three-masted, full-rigged ship model. That was my little scratchbuilt frigate Hancock, quite a long time ago.

My biggest enemy when it comes to ship modeling is monotony, and monotony comes from repetition. So I tried to space out various activities to produce as much variety as I could.

I started by building the bowsprit - off the model. I like to clamp the spar I'm working on in a vise and finish as much of it as possible on the bench, away from the model (for several good reasons). I built the cap, the bees, and all the fittings that I figured would have been on the real mast before it was stepped. Then I stepped it, and set up the standing rigging (including gammoning, bowsprit shrouds, and bobstays).

Then I tackled the main mast. My theory was that, being bigger, it would be the easiest in terms of technique (I was inventing techniques as I went along), and that it would make the fore and mizzen masts seem easier by comparison. I made the main top (quite an exercise; it ended up having fifty or sixty pieces in it), and mounted it on the mast - along with all the other gadgets that I figured would be in place on the real thing before it was stepped. Then the main lower standing rigging (stay, preventer stay, shrouds, and those infernal nichrome wire ratlines - much easier to rig when there isn't much other rigging to get them tangled in).

Next the fore lower mast and its standing rigging (which took about half as long as the main mast). Then the mizzen mast (which now seemed ludicrously simple) and its standing rigging.

What I did next probably differs from the sequence most modelers use. I made the main yard, complete with all its details (including studding sail booms and irons). I clamped a piece of dowel the same size as the main mast in the vise, and rigged the main yard to it with the truss. Then, using the descriptions in my references, I secured all the necessary blocks and other fittings to the yard, mounted the footropes (from brass wire, so I could make them droop) and made the main course. I rigged as much of the running rigging as I could, and furled up the sail, before transfering the yard from the dowel to the model. Then I added the braces, jeers, and other running rigging. Such lines as the clew garnets, buntlines, sheets, and tacks were already there; they just had to be belayed.

Then the fore lower yard and its sail and rigging, then the mizzen, with the crossjack and lateen yards. (Until the mid-nineteenth century the crossjack yard didn't have a sail on it.)

One advantage of this plan is that it forces you to rig the various lines much as the real ones were. If you get into a situation where you can't set up a piece of rigging on the lower mast before the topmast is in place, you've done something wrong.

Then the topmasts (in the same order - main, fore, mizzen), their standing rigging, and their yards and sails, the topgallant masts and their yards and sails, etc.

This sequence let me switch back and forth: making a spar one evening, making the sail the next, rigging it the next, then making another spar, etc. I was particularly grateful not to have to prepare all the rigging blocks and deadeyes and once. I used britannia ones from Bluejacket; the sequence for blocks was: clean up and drill out (including a few extras), thread on a piece of wire, spray with Floquil primer (no longer among us, alas), brush paint (brown), let dry, remove the wire, rig. Doing that a couple of dozen times is bad enough; doing all of them at once would have done me in. I think the total number of blocks and deadeyes in the model approached a thousand, but I never had to confront more than a couple of dozen at a time.

One interesting rigging feature that some modelers ignore: the staysails. I rigged each of them as soon in the sequence as I could - the topmast staysails as soon as the standing rigging of the topmasts was done, etc. I found that an interesting part of the job, and not especially difficult.

Last came such things as flag halyards, boat tackles, and other miscellaneous gear - and that freakish little flagstaff at the stern with the tiny lateen sail on it. (That one was a real brain buster, and I still have no idea whether I got it right or not.)

Tht's not the only way to do it, of course, but it worked for me (i.e., I actually finished the model without getting chased down by the boys with the butterfly nets). For the benefit of those who haven't looked at my three-year-old thread about that model, here are a couple of pictures of the results: http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/r650/jtilley1/38900015_edited-2_zpsc2ed8d33.jpg

http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/r650/jtilley1/38890030_zps5e61656c.jpg

On my current project, a fishing schooner of about 1912, I'm thinking seriously about making all the spars (there are only about ten of them) and their fittings all in advance, and then setting them up and rigging them. For this particular type of model, that seems like it might go faster and be more fun. Also, the fittings are going to involve quite a bit of soldering. I only want to set up for soldering once, if possible.

Hope that helps a little.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Robert on Sunday, January 17, 2016 4:43 PM

I'm no expert but I always assemble the masts, yards, blocks and upper shrouds prior to stepping the masts. 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, January 17, 2016 2:18 PM

Just flew in from Maui last night (and boy are my arms tired!)...jk

Back from vacation and looking ahead to more progress on the SR....

Quick Poll Question:

In what sequence do you prefer to assemble masts?

For the most part, all of the kits I've built call for the masts to be stepped and assembled in sections, mast, top mast, topgallant, etc....but I've seen and read some instances where people choose to basically comlplete the mast assembly OFF the model, installing blocks, upper shrounds, even yards and sails before stepping the masts.  Leaving the lower shrouds dangling from the masttop until last.  This is presumably to help with access during assembly.

Any thoughts?  I'm just trying to think of how I should approach the next few steps....

Thanks!

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS
FREE NEWSLETTER
By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy.