heller le glorieux 1/150

There is one thing that I have learned about Airfix by participation in their Forum, and it is that they will produce a kit for a limited production run. When that kit sells out, there are no more until the company decides to produce that kit again.  It seem like an unusual way to run a model company, but so be it.

Bill

One of the great secrets of the plastic kit industry is: how many kits does a company have to produce to make a profit? Answer: I have no idea.

When I was working my way through college in a hobby shop, the distributors told us that, generally speaking, the break-even point was about 100,000 units. I don't have any further verification of that, and, in any case, the business has changed enormously since those days (1973-1980). My strong impression is that the number of modelers has gone way down and the prices have gone way up - partly, I assume, because the companies have to make profits on fewer sales.

A little while ago I took a look at the Eduard website. (I'm pretty sure that website is the real thing, based in the Czech Republic. When Americans go to airfix.com, they see a website that's based in the U.S.) Eduard actually says how many of each kit it has in stock. And the numbers are astonishingly low: about ten of each item - including the brand new ones. I don't know how to interpret that. Surely Eduard doesn't get its investment in a kit back by selling ten copies of it. Does the company keep a tiny store on hand and effectively pop new kits on order, as it runs out? I have no idea.

I won't speculate on how many revised and updated H.M.S. Prince kits Airfix could sell in a year. But my guess is that the figure would be in the hundreds. And I suspect the company just can't afford to operate on such numbers. Just how much does it cost to revise a plastic kit mold? I don't know. I don't really know how the plastic kit business works - and it's a safe bet that the people running it will never tell me.

If Airfix introduces a new sailing ship, I'll probably be among the first in line to buy it - not because I'm likely to build it in this lifetime, but because I want to support firms that make good sailing ship kits.

John,

I couldn't agree more.  That is why I have ordered the Kruzenstern from Zvesda, having the rest of their sailing ships, I have all of the Revell line, including their Flying P-Line ships, and all the Airfix kits.  Perhaps one of them will release a new sailing warship oneday.

Bill

Steve, I meant to answwer this a while back. On my Victory, I got Emerald green oil & mixed with white & thinned to a wash & painted that on my copper botton. It settles in nicely & looks great. I did that on my Constituion 35 years ago. I used Floquil copper which worked great & I could wash over it. If you used acrylic  or lacquer, that would wash good too.

   I have a ton of floquil that is 30 years old & still good. I used it on my HO railroads.

Steve, How do you compare the quality of the Heller kits to the Aifix? I looked at mine & although the Airfix are great kits, the Heller looks like it has much cleaner & better castings.They do have some very nice design features. Heller has full guns on the second deck & I never minded the Airfix way of lower guns. You can't see anything anyway on that small a model. 

     I see you are priming your models before painting, have you always done that. I have off & on depending on the type model. When I started using MM acrylic, without priming it peeled. Tamiya never did that, but I really like MM acrylic as it brushes beautifully, where I have to brush. I do a lot of big brushing on sailing ships.

May I be forgiven for jumping in here? (If not - well, one of the great things about this Forum is that you can quit reading at any time!)

In talking about the relative quality of model companies, we always need to remember that most of them have been around for a long time, and the quality of their kits has changed over the decades (generally, but with plenty of exceptions, for the better). Airfix has been in business since the early fifties, and Heller for almost as long. If I'm not mistaken, the first Airfix sailing ship was the Endeavour, and it was, by modern standards, extremely basic. As Airfix sailing ships got newer, they got better. The Prince is certainly better detailed than the Victory, which is better detailed than the Sovereign of the Seas. And the Airfix Wasa and St. Louis can stand comparison with anything on the market.

I'm also a fan of the Airfix Cutty Sark - one of the few kits in the sailing ship line that are still available. In some ways it's better detailed than the big Revell one. I also like the Airfix Revenge and Mayflower. I haven't seen the Golden Hind, but on the basis of photos it looks like a nice kit.

Airfix sailing warship kits do have one feature I really dislike: those "dummy" gun barrels that plug into holes in shallow depressions representing the gunports. To be fair, the depressions got deeper over the years; those of the Wasa are much better than those of the Victory.

Airfix did have one dud (in my opinion): its HMS Bounty. That one appeared in about 1980, when Airfix was having major financial problems, and is riddled with silly mistakes (like a maindeck that's mounted on a pronounced slope, because the hawseholes are in the wrong places). Anybody wanting to do a Bounty in plastic would be far better advised to pick the old Revell kit.

The Airfix line had/has several big general virtues. All the kits (the Bounty excepted) are the right shape, and the details that are there are right. I get the impression that the designers were doing the best they could to produce historically accurate models, given the limitations of technology and budget. And Airfix never released a sailing ship kit under more than one name.

I've vented about Heller already in this thread, so I won't bother doing it again.

Bottom line: if you're most interested in "carved" ornamentation and lots of parts, you'll be happy with Heller (though the more recent Airfix kits can certainly compete). If you care about historical accuracy, you're (almost) always safe with Airfix - and rarely, but occasionally, safe with Heller.

thank's for that gene , I will have a go at it , I can't compare airfix as I have never done one of there models , unfortunately . I have only done heller , zvezda ,and revel models .

as I have only been modeling for a few year's , heller have the most detail , zvezda the best fit and revel depends on the model .

had a go gene , doesn't look too bad , might dry brush it yet with a greenish white , see how I go .

" />

I have an old glue bomb Discovery.

? , not with you gmorrison ?

jtilley

And the Airfix Wasa and St. Louis can stand comparison with anything on the market.

On a different forum too many years ago we discussed which (wood!) kit of the Wasa was the best. Someone then mentioned that the most dimensionally accurate of them all according to someone in the know at the Vasa museum was... the plastic Airfix one.

I fully concur with John.  When Heller produces an accurate kit of an historic ship, it is usually an outstanding model.  But, doing so is more the exception than the rule.  Many modelers have been duped into believing that they were purchasing an accurate model of a real ship, only to find out that the ship was fictional.  Airfix has only produced one dud, their Bounty, which, of course, is historic.  On the down side, Airfix kits are more simple to build.

I just wish that Airfix would manufacture more of them.

Bill

Bill, I wasn't trying to put Airfix down, but like John & you say, some are really old kits. They do turn out really nice. The 2 fictional Heller kits that I got , Sirene & Gladiateur are very nice castings & seem to fit very well. As always I have just built for fun so a fictional kit doesn't bother me as long as it builds into a nice model. 

   Steve, I think you might have the green a little heavy, but you can wipe it down some. Maybe it's the picture. I will try to put a picture on of my Victory with the green wash.

John, that was agreat post on the kits you just did. Airfix has gotten me realy wrapped up on ships, do I do love them. Little things that Heller had were the windows opened in the glass area. That saves a ton of work. I would love to do another Victory in some thing bigger but not 1/100. I picked up another very nice & newer Airfix Wasa for $9.99 shipped. I couldn't pass it. I felt like Jesse James & wrote the seller about it.  Just nobody bid on it. 

Staale S

 

 

On a different forum too many years ago we discussed which (wood!) kit of the Wasa was the best. Someone then mentioned that the most dimensionally accurate of them all according to someone in the know at the Vasa museum was... the plastic Airfix one.

 

 

 

As I understand it, the Wasa Museum has also endorsed the Revell 1/150 kit - and I believe at least one prominent museum staff member played a prominent role in designing the kit.

It's noteworthy that the museum has not endorsed those enormous, and expensive, HECEPOB kits.

Gene, that's a mighty fine-looking Victory. One tiny suggestion: those two long brown polls that stick out over the beakhead are the foretack bumpkins. The foretacks (the lines leading down and forward from the fore coarse (the lowest square sail on the foremast) lead to those bumkins. They should jut out from the bow at about a 45-degree angle, rather than straight ahead.

John, thank you, I didn't know what they were when i put them on. They do angle at about 30 degrees. You do write great posts & I read them all.

I did want to go back to one thing & that is the rigging machine.. The only way I  personally am going to get ratlines on a ship model is with the pre made ones or the machine. I went back & looked at what i did before & they are way better than the kit supplied ones. I am sorry that I didn't keep going & do it for the Prince as it is a great looking model. I am using the kit ones on the Victory & the ratlines cut off about 5 ratlines short of the tie in point. With the machine you can take them all the way. 

 I will find a glue that works. My white canopy glue or the brush on Loctite super glue might be the answer. I can rig up 2 shrouds in about 20 minutes, but the glue screws me up. Also I thought if you start rigging when you start a new kit , it will give you more glue drying time.  I will let you know. 

   The Sirene Heller kit has a rigging machine that is just one piece & I think that will be much better.

  Also I just thought of this, sometimes you see a model that someone has painted a lot of parts. I solved this a long time ago when i was looking for a Rolls Balloon car. The only one i could find was covered with a lot of paint on the parts. I soaked the parts in a let down solution of Purple Power, 1/2 & 1/2 or less. It cleaned the paint off beautifully & I went & finished a beautiful car. It will take off enamel or acrylic & maybe lacquer.  I also clean my old 1/2 oz paint bottle with a long soak in a strong can of Purple Power. Walmart has it in Automotive. The darn bottles are about 1.50 each. Too much to throw away & they come completely clean. I throw them in a can of Purple & let them & the lids sit for a week. The Purple is only about $5 a big bottle.

   Here is the Rolls

Please excuse any bad typeing or mistakes because i have never typed this much.

John, Thanks, I changed them. I have the masts up & am putting sails on now. I have gone ahead & sewed them on as once I found a fast way to sew them I don't mind doing it.

I use a needle & start from the back of the first hole, up & over & go behind the thread & over to hole 2 & do it again. They come out straight from the front & you have a thread runing behind the sail that I have never seen once it is on the mast.  I use my Formula 560 white glue to glue the sail to the spar before I sew. That glue is super for anything on finished paint because you can clean it off with water untill it's dry. Then it is stronger than anything. 

would some body be able to explain to me what happened here , I sprayed it with humbrol clear , before I oil washed it , and this happened , couldn't really clean it back too good , I have taken it off and started again .

" />

gene , how weak did you make your wash ?

Gene,

After correcting the foretack bumpkins, that will be one fine first rate First Rate!  I have to say that I am envious of your painting skills.  You should write a book.

Bill

Steve, I would say  about 10% color & nearly a full 1/2 oz bottle of spirits thinner.  I always try it on a smalll place at the bottom. You can wipe it off or down with spiits.I got some 2000 grit pads like 3m pads & do a lot of sanding or wipe over with them I got them at Napa Auto. They are for final sanding on cars.They come in a 10" sq. pad.

    Steve, I always use MM gloss or Dullcote or a mix of the two.I  put it on over everything with no problems. Over enamel, acrylic Tempera, or laquer & I use them all on the same model.

    Steve try that Purple Power cleaner. Thin it with water. It never hurts plastic, in fact it comes in a plastic bottle.Sometimes you have to let it sit for a while. That is why I put that Rolls Baloon car on. It was a real mess when I got it. It was clean enough after Purple to paint with Tamiya lacquer.

 Purple Power does come by a different name, or is like Purple. Your Superbe is beautiful. I spray my sails with a raw umber mix after I paint them. I try to go a little heavy in the creases.My umber is also about 10%.I use a very light spray at a distance on the sails.

Thank you again Bill. At nearly 86, my hands do get shaky & I can't paint like I used to. I do appreciate your kindness. Sometimes now I get a little worried that I won't get all my models finished .

I meant to ask Steve if he had the rigging tool or the ready made shrouds. I am determined to find a glue for the rigging tool. Steve if you have the tool, start early on the shrouds so you can each one a good day to dry. I will let you know if I find the right glue. Right now my Forula 560 white glue is at the top. next is some form of super glue, or maybe a combination of the two.

Steve, what kind of paint was the copper What kind is the Humbrol. That is lacquer, enamel, or acrylic ? Although I use Dullcote or gloss lacquer over everything. Were those copper plates you had put on the hull or is that the Heller copper plate casting.. I usually don't gloss over my paint before I wash. I used to at time, but it was MM gloss lacquer ( Metalizer sealer). I just have very few paint problems. 

   I even discovered I could use automotive lacquer over a plastic car if I primed it with lacquer primer first.

Gene, your work is truly inspirational. I'm 65, and I know my models aren't as good now as the ones I built 20 or 30 years ago. If, 20 years from now, I can come anywhere close to the quality of work you're doing now, I'll be a proud and happy man.

John, That is so nice to hear for a crazy old, treacerous man that can't & won't work hard anymore. You know age is not so bad on building a model, but rigging & fine painting are hit hard. I will have to send you some pictures of my train layouts. I built at least 7 of them from 1956 to 1993. They were a passion with me. I have pictures of the last 2 & they were really neat. I did old steam engines & geared engines & narrow guage too. I stuck with logging & mining . We went thru a ton of old gold mines in Colorado & took pictures of logging all the way out to Vancouver. 

        That was the fun, with my wife & I we took pictures of trestles, gold mines & old buildings that I would scratch build them for my layouts.

     Thank you again for the nice words, & Warship guy is sending me a St Louis kit & I will start it the moment it gets here. I know you got one from him too. Let me know how yours is coming. I will race you on it. That is one I have really wanted. It is a smaller ship than the Prince isn't it?  I love the French Blue & white colors. I just got them from Hobbylinc today. 

       Thanks again,   Gene

Gene,

Although there is no stated scale on the box, the Saint Louis by Airfix is a larger kit than their Prince.  I believe the Prince is around 1/180; the Saint Louis seems to be around 1/144.  And, I concur fully with John.  I am 62, arthritis is setting in, and, if I do anywhere near as well as you are doing at 86, I will count my blessings.  Your work is inspirational!

I am currently in the middle of a Workers' Comp case based on the beating I took over two years ago in my school.  I may be joining you both among the ranks of the retired sooner than I had expected.  If so, I will then dedicate my time to building up to your very high standards of artistry!

Bill

  Bill,  I wrote a long email before on this and lost it. Grrr. I will start the St Louis as soon as it comes. I designed & built custom hmes for nearly 40 tears & the last 10 were tough with all the regulations, that didn't do a thing for the houses. I had a light heart attack & had 4 way bipass at 60. I quit, wasn't ready, but I wanted to live. My brother finished up & he quit too & we both moved up here. He was battleship sailor in WW2.

  Three months after my surgery we moved to NC & I built our house & then a neat train layout & the last 25 + years have been the best in my life. Building models every day, target practice, reading. You will love it. Do it. You will be surprised at how well you can build when you are old & I am shaky as a dogs tail.

   What was the beating you took? How bad was it ? 

    Gene

I attempted to break up a fight outside my classroom on March 9, 2014. As I separated the students (both girls), the one on my right threw herself against me and I lost my balance. Unknown to me, she was a trained and licensed professional boxer.  I grabbed hold of one of her legs as she tried to go over me to continue fighting the other girl.  As I held her leg, she stood over me and hit me over 25 times on the left side of my head, and kicked me 5 times in the same spot.  I have struggled the last 2.5 years with severe loud shrieking in my ears, loss of balance, TBI symptoms, and PTSD.  I have lost over 96% of my hearing.  So, I have a huge case with Workers' Comp that is nearing completion.  These issues have caused me tremendous problems with teaching.

Anyway, I am looking forward to retirement!

Bill

I just read your post Bill & that is horrible. All 4 of our girls & 3 of their husbands are teachers & we worry about that kind of thing happening with them. I bet the girl is not even in jail. She ought to be in prison for life.

I think the law protecting people in this country is gone. I know the FBI & the Justice Dept are gone. I have always respected cops & one of our son in laws retired as a Sheriff's LT. after 30 years. You ought to hear him talk about the weakness in our law system.

  2 of our kids have taught Special Ed with the DOD in Germany for 18 years & 8 more in Panama. Our SOL & I talked a lot about what they do with a problem kids & in the military they call the parents in & tell them the family will be shipped home if there is more trouble.

   The German schools have it even more right. If a kid causes trouble they go into a special (reform) school & the next time it is jail. They don't have much trouble.

   Again thank you for the St. Louis & I am so very sorry for the harm you went thru.

      Sincerely,  Gene

Gene,

Unfortunately for her, Connecticut had just passed a law making an assault on a Senior Citizen (defined as anyone 60 or over) a Class 1 felony. Yes, she is in prison serving a long sentence. I had turned 60 two weeks before.

Bill

Hooray, Bill that is the most hopeful news I have heard in ages. That is what we need is strong laws,enforced. At nearly 86 I have never had a car wreck, never had a ticket & never had anything but help from cops. Thank goodness for a decent law enforced.

                                   Gene