Revell 1:450 Victory Finished

Flint

That looks great Don. What's next for you? 

 

I am working on an airplane and a piece of armor now.  But next year will be a year of ships, concentrating on that genre.  Next ship on the bench will be the Revell kit of Cook's Endeavor.

That turned out nice!  

gene1

Absolutely beautiful Don. I just don't know how you can work that well in such a small model. Do you think you will do another small one? 

 

Probably.  I still have three of those old Heller 1:600 kits.  Depends if I can find PE shrouds/ratlines appropriate for it.  The set I bought for the Victory might work.  There were several smaller pieces left over, but not enough to do a whole ship.

Absolutely beautiful Don. I just don't know how you can work that well in such a small model. Do you think you will do another small one? 

Beautiful job!

Nino

Thanks GM,  Excellent example.

The closed Gun ports look Ochre to me.  Well Done Don!

  

 

I was up at the National Maritime museum today and saw this. The gun ports are painted ochre underneath too! 

JurS

That looks gorgeous, Don. Great job!

With it in full sail, you might want some 1/450 sailors on board!

 

Well, I couldn't find 1:450 sailers, but I did put 1:500 ones aboard, if you look close at second pic.  I figured people were smaller that long ago, right?

The entire build (and the thought processes behind it) is just superb...and the water base is just the icing on the cake!

A really gorgeous piece of artistry!

Nicely done all around Don.

Fine work!

How you can work at that scale is beyond me.

I much prefer the colors you've used than the restoration colors.

That looks great Don. What's next for you? 

very nice indeed don , love the water base .

That looks gorgeous, Don. Great job!

With it in full sail, you might want some 1/450 sailors on board!

Thank You Don.

     Nino

OKay, it is finished!

Here are a couple of photos.  The weather is rainy all week.  I may try to get a few sunlit shots next week.

Here is a closer shot.  Unfortunately, even at f/16 I may have run out of depth of field, or else some missed focus- my basement is really dark today.  Zoomed in to show crew :-)

As far as the "I was there" factor, I once asked my F-I-L what colors his AAF Beaufighter was painted, since all of his photos of it were B/W.

"How the heck would I know. I was too busy climbing in and out of it".

Thanks GM,  Excellent example.

The closed Gun ports look Ochre to me.  Well Done Don!

When Turner painted his massive The Battle of Trafalgar work in 1822-1824, it was based on earlier drawings in black and white he'd made shortly after she returned to England.

Because he had the misfortune of it being displayed in the Greenwich Hospital, everyone who "was there" had an opinion, and he ended up repainting quite a bit of it.

  RE: " I've had to study a lot of paintings before even starting my build. But, that'll be another thread soon. Because just like overpriced coffee shops these days, there's just not enough Victory build logs."

     I think the study of paintings is a great way to go. Details of exactly what changed and when is a fun project. Unfortunately  you may never get the kit built spending time collecting various "proofs".

     There are actually quite a few Build logs out there; some from foreign sites and some from various American forums.  These "Builds" can take years to be completed, so not a lot that are Complete.  Even then, if you want to follow the Research and Build of  another Modeler, that specific time frame chosen may not be your "Cup-of-Coffee".

      The colors of the ship did vary quite a bit. As Launched: side planks were not painted in streaks, but ‘payed’ with a "single broad band of yellow-brown varnish." and they were painted "black and mustard yellow in 1780".    And then in 1805 the Nelson Checker pattern appeared. In 1816 it was a Black and White scheme.  For thoses in-between years of 1767 thru 1816 I bet she had many different looks based on every Captain re-painting the ship about every year.  This year it is Captain Don Stauffer.   So, beautiful Ochre bands it is.

Hey,  even the Box Art from half the  manufacturers did it Don's way:

Airfix, Bandai, Entex, Lindberg, Revell:

And the other half with the Checker pattern......

(The Heller 1/100 kit- is not pictured. Note: the rare Revell kit, upper left, is actually based on a Lindberg 1/333ish mold, not the Revell 1/225 mold.

    Nino.

P.S. Yes, I know, the OEM's get it wrong too often. And I've been told you can't base it on Art work and yet, look at all the Paintings we do depend on for so many historical ships.  Many artists based their color paintings on sketches they drew.  The sketches were B&W! The colors were from memory. 

So, what 'colour" is your wife's tooth brush? Can you remember exactly ?

(Colour:English spelling, it's an English ship!)

The only reason I've always questioned the Nelson Chequer  paint scheme is that there seems to be several different ideas about what it actually was. Some (authors) say it was black on the underside of the gunports (ochre on top), others say it was black on the outside, and some just say the "gunports were black". It won't matter to my build, but it's always been something I wasn't totally convinced by. Mind you, there's several other aspects of Victory I'm not  too sure about either. There's a lot of 'probably' and 'likely' when it comes to this ship.    

I've had to study a lot of paintings before even starting my build. But, that'll be another thread soon. Because just like overpriced coffee shops these days, there's just not enough Victory build logs.

Don Stauffer

No, I have decided not to paint the ports black.  During most its service life, I believe the ochre stripes were continuous, with the ports ochre.  That eliminates a lot of work.

The slight problem here is that she was rebuilt quite a bit in 1801-1803, this included full replacement of bow and stern decorations which substantially changed her looks. And once she was out of the rebuild Nelson got her and probably had her checker-painted to his taste, so it is unlikely that she had the "old" style of paint for any time, if at all, in her post-rebuild state.

Flint

From what I've read, the whole point was to be able to signal intention over a distance. Much like how in nature animals use their colours to signal hostility. If the gunports are painted black, then it looks as if the ship is constantly in battle mode. As I understand it, whaling ships painted a white line with black squares along the hull to make seem as if the ship was armed. But surely anybody would've known that a ship of Victory's size was going to be armed to the teeth, why fake it with paint??? Signalling intention could be used in all sorts of ways to either bluff the enemy, or to let nearby ports know that no harm is intended. Here's a little diagram I just knocked together in Photoshop to illustrate my point.

 

Flint

You are overthinking it methinks. If you want to signal anything you use flags, it's what they are there for. Masts are visible way before you can see the hull. Besides, opening the ports and running out the guns can be done very quickly so a "friendly" signal as you suggest would be largely meaningless.

The whole "Nelson checker" thing as in your third picture was, well, a Nelson thing. He liked the looks and used it on his own ships, the ships sailing with him aped it, with him being an admiral and a bit of a hero and all that, and after Trafalgar the Royal Navy as a whole took "his" preferred look and ran with it, as he now had the added attraction of being safely dead. The buff was changed to white in time. The rest of the world aped the Royal Navy in turn. (This is a gross oversimplification of course - the Royal Danish Navy for example had a black and white checkerboard style going in the very early 1800s, before Trafalgar...)

That is not to say that some ships here and there did not use the "checker" style before Nelson, but the most usual practice earlier was to have the outside of the ports in the same - usually a brown or buff - color as the surrounding hull, as per your first picture, maybe with black wales and upperworks and maybe not. Look at paintings and models from the 1600s and 1700s and this is what you tend to see.

One should keep in mind that the painting of a ship was largely left up to the tastes of her captain and first lieutenant, within the limits of what the King was going to pay for which wasn't a whole lot.

Got the foremast and mainmast in, and the standing rigging for them in.  Boy, PE shrouds and ratlines sure look nice.  A suggestion for any kit mfg offering sailing ships- please consider PE shrouds and ratlines, especially for smaller scales.

Nino

 

 

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And, will you try a fine-tip marker for the gun ports?

 

     Jim.

 

 

No, I have decided not to paint the ports black.  During most its service life, I believe the ochre stripes were continuous, with the ports ochre.  That eliminates a lot of work.

Don Stauffer

Here is the mainmast, with the plastic sails, ready to mount into the hull.  Note the Atlantic Models PE shrouds and ratlines.

 

RE:" He sure did enjoy telling how much stolen American hardwood went into building her."

     He better get his history straight.  The British Empire "owned" America (the 13 Colonies) when HBMS Victory was being contemplated.  So, if any wood was ever brought from the Colonies it was not Stolen. I have not found proof that any American wood was used to build Victory.  Wonder where he got the idea.

      In my readings I have found reference to "90% of the timber used was oak mostly felled in the forests of Kent and Sussex",  and some "straight oak" was imported from Gdańsk. Reports are the wood for Victory had been seasoned for 15 years prior to Victory's building too.

 That is not such a good "story" for the tour guide to tell to the younger visitors.  I like tour guides, especially with a bit of salt.

Thanks for the insight from 2015. 

       Nino

JurS

I was there yesterday. She is an amazing sight. The ship is in the middle of a major restoration effort, everything above the lower masts has been removed to storage so it can be restored and preserved. I don't know when she will be fitted out again.

I visited her in May 2015 and she look now like she did then.  Amazing ship to see and to see how she was built.  When I was below deck the tour guide was enjoying himself telling me how the keel was made from stolen American southern oak.  I sure maybe in the past but now they most likely buy it from us now.  He sure did enjoy telling how much stolen American hardwood went into building her.

Mark

I think the masts are supposed to be finished in the next few years (they're up at Chatham for now) but there is concern over the weight of them. I wonder if in the future there may be a glass dome or something enclosing her to prevent the destructive rain water.

Amazing place isn't it? Warrants a couple of days visit to see everything. 

@Mark Carroll There's a good GoPro 4k tour on YouTube if you can't get there. 

Mark Carroll

Would love to see the Victory!

 

I was there yesterday. She is an amazing sight. The ship is in the middle of a major restoration effort, everything above the lower masts has been removed to storage so it can be restored and preserved. I don't know when she will be fitted out again.

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