Should I, shouldn't I? —Advice needed for purchase of very old Revell model

It looks fantastic, Bob.  Great job! 

Turned out great Bob.  Not many of us have subjects so personally significant.  Whats left to build for your 'trip home' collection?

And here it is, my completed model of the hospital ship U.S.S. Repose. In case you missed my earlier posts about this model, Repose was on station off the coast of South Vietnam, near Da Nang, on March 5, 1966, the day that my Marine Corps company was ambushed by a combined company of Main Force Viet Cong and soldiers of a regiment of the People’s Army of Viet Nam (PAVN). I was a U.S. Navy hospital corpsman seconded to the Marines. I was shot through my right thigh as I attempted to give first aid to a grievously wounded Marine. Eventually I was evacuated to a field hospital and then to Repose for surgery. Quite naturally, Repose has a permanent berth in my heart. 

The model was a difficult build, in large part because I am an amateur modeller, at best. And it’s also inaccurate model, at best. Repose was commissioned in August, 1945, so missed most of the Second World War, but took part in the Korean War and much later in the Vietnam War. The ship underwent many changes, having a helicopter landing platform added during the Korean War and subsequently undergoing many changes and improvements, to the point that it’s hard to find any two photographs that seem to show the same ship.  

At one point in the ship’s history it was apparently lengthened. Masts and derricks were added or removed, various antennae were installed/removed, the flying bridge was widened, paint schemes changed, and deck furniture was altered, added, or removed. Lifeboats and rafts and utility craft were updated or dropped entirely. 

One Finescale member pointed out that the model wasn’t wide enough, and that the overall scale of the model was incorrect. Although the model was released in different forms, as the Navy hospital ship Haven and the civilian hospital ship repose, the molds, dating back to the mid or late 1950s, were never updated. I actually ended up buying three “Repose” kits, in part because many parts were poorly molded or warped over time (and, full disclosure) because I really screwed up the painting of both the hull and had a lot of difficulty adding deck drains (which weren’t molded into the hull).  

At the end, despite the difficulties I encountered, I’m very happy with the model, which features a scratch-built Seahorse helicopter (the chopper that came with the kit was far too small and would never have been mistaken for a Seahorse), a scratch-built "tent" on the weather deck that's visible in some Vietnam War photos, DIY decals, a custom decal for the landing platform from Bedlam Creations, and a lot of mostly imaginary antenna and radar arrays.  

And here it is, "sailing" in the custom display case I ordered from Modellers Workshop in Montreal:

Thank you to the several Finescale discussion board members who offered their suggestions throughout the build, which took more than two years. I learned a great deal from them. 

Bob Ingraham

Vancouver

Nice job on the scratched helo.

I've got several kits that have ended up in the box of doom, it takes as long as it takes.

Don't worry about what others think, as long as you're happy and proud of it, that's all that matters.

I'm back! And just today I put the finishing touches on my U.S.S. Repose model. The last step: installing an antenna (after I took the following photop) on the tail of the Sikorsky UH-34 Raven helicopter, which I scratch built to replace the one in the kit, which doesn't really look like a Raven and was way too small. I even added a nearly microscopic Lucky Red Lions insignia decal to the chopper — that was the squadron that flew my Marine Corps battalion about Quang Ngai and Quang Nam Provinces during my brief tour of duty. (A Finescale member, Pawel, created the insignia that I used to print my decals. Thank you, Pawel!) Here is a photo of the tiny helicopter: 

I also added scratch-built radar and radio antennas that weren't included in the kit, and more or less look like what can be seen less than clearly in photos of the ship. 

The Revell kit is a bit of a nightmare to build. Lots of mild warping, plastic that sometimes seemed unaffected by Tamiya styrene cement, and many dimples from the moulding process. Except for a few original decals, I printed my own in an attempt to replicate the ship's appearance during the Vietnam War, but it was difficult to figure out what that appearance actually was because different wartime photos show different paint schemes, different masts, different antennas, and different lifeboats and utility boats. In the end I have a model of what appears to be an American hospital ship, and has decals  identifying it by correct name and hull number, but it would never pass muster if compared to the Repose that I "visited,"as a surgical patient, in 1966.

The biggest problems I encountered resulted from lack of experience. I sprayed, filed and sanded parts too vigorously, failed to wait long enough for paint and glue to dry, and managed to break a few fragile parts through clumsiness. I might as well say it now: some of inexperience resulted in making mistake that simply couldn’t be undone, and I ended up buying two additional kits, one of the U.S.S. Haven and another of the U.S.S. Hope. I had ”hoped” that I could build a second model, but not enough undamaged parts are left for a complete build. But truth be known, I just don’t have the patience to even try to build a second Repose model.

In the end, I have a model that I am proud of, and I learned a great deal by building it. I have started another model, of the submarine Nautilus of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea fame, produced by the Pegasus model company. It seems to be a beautifully designed kit, and I think that my skills have improved enough to make it “come alive”. I especially like that base, a giant squid, painted fire-engine red, that has ensnared the Nautilus in its tentacles. I’ve also ordered a LED lighting kit, from Evan Designs,  to make the submarine’s detailed saloon visible.

Almost forgot: I ordered and have received a custom-made acrylic display case for my Repose model, made for me by the Modellers Workshop in Montreal. I’ll take some pictures soon so you can the finished model.

I’ve wondered if I established a new record for slowness in completing my model of Repose, but checking back in this thread tells me that I ordered the first kit in July, 2020. Not too bad, I guess, considering some of the problems I encountered. Besides, I’m retired, and there’s a pandemic. What else is there to do? I’ve suggested other activities to my wife of 55 years, but she told me just to go back to working on my model ship and leave her alone!

Bob      

no problem.  what i am doing with the Arizona & Haven hulls is kitbashing not using PE. my 2 hospital ships won't have any railings including PE as they are overscale. there is a slightly bigger scale Haven hospital ship as i have 1 off ebay. material seems to be not styrene but maybe vinyl & the model is not full hull but has a really flat bottom.

ddp59

model is 32.85cm x 4.5cm x 1.54cm at 1/482.484. real ship is 520' x 71'6" x 24'6". the model is actually to wide at the main deck level not to narrow. what do you mean by "the time I have left on this benighted planet." cancer?

@1943 Mike, who said:

“When I was around 12, 13, or 14 (1955, '56, or '57) I built (horribly and with no finesse, patience, or skill) a hospital ship and a Viking ship.”

Your hospital ship had to be the Revell Haven. As far as I know, that’s the only scale model of the Haven that’s ever been produced. Subsequent models of USS Repose and SS Hope were both made using the original Haven moulds. I built my first Haven at about the same time you built yours. And I bet that my lack of finesse, patience, or skill exceeded yours! 

One of the mysteries of my life is the disappearance of all of the models, in addition to Haven, that I built in my teens. Every time I blink (well, not every time) I remember a model I built in my teens — F-84 Thunderjet, F-102 Delta Dagger, F-89 Scorpion, B-25 Mitchell, F6F Hellcat, a PBY, the Canberra guided missile cruiser, HMS Bounty, a Chris-Craft cabin cruiser, a sailing dinghy, and a Lincoln Futura concept car. 

I’m sure that I still had all of those models when I joined the Navy at age 19. I never lived with my parents again, but I don’t recall ever seeing the models again. I suspect my mom tossed them out. Apparently I didn’t care enough to enquire about them. Another mystery: What happened to my dog, Smutsie? I have no idea. 

Bob

model is 32.85cm x 4.5cm x 1.54cm at 1/482.484. real ship is 520' x 71'6" x 24'6". the model is actually to wide at the main deck level not to narrow. what do you mean by "the time I have left on this benighted planet." cancer?

Bob,

When I was around 12, 13, or 14 (1955, '56, or '57) I bult (horribly and with no finesse, patience, or skill) a hospital ship and a Viking ship. I can't remember the manufacturer and I can tell you they did NOT deserve a place on the mantel in our living room.

My great aunt, the lady who brought my brother and I up (long, boring story) was generous enough to allow my cruddy models to sit on the mantel for a while.

I found this image several years ago and did post it to some thread (can't remember which) on this site. Here it is again simply so you can laugh and relax about building your model ships .... it's all supposed to be fun!

The guy in the picture is me and you can see the models (barely) on either side of the mantel.

I’ve hit what I guess is an emotional snag with my build of the Haven-class U.S.S. Repose hospital ship.

I’ve given up on my first attempt, in which I used a Revell model of S.S. Hope; Hope originally was another Haven-class ship, U.S.S. Consolation, which was for all intents and purposes identical to Haven and Repose. I managed to make a mess painting the decks and superstructure; I used Tamiya acrylics to paint the decks, and ended up with uneven, streaky grey and tan paint where it should be white, and white paint where it should be grey or tan. And then I managed to damage the deep-red and white paint on the hull when I tried to install scratch-built deck drains. 

Now, having started my second attempt, using a Revell Haven kit, I have realized that these Revell kits (U.S.S. Haven, U.S.S. Repose, and S.S. Hope), all made from the same 1950s molds, are wildly out of scale. Their beam seems too narrow by several scale feet, and their forecastle deck is longer and the poop deck shorter than those of the real ships. Here are comparison photos of Repose and the hull of the Revell version of U.S.S. Haven (the yellow masking tape is there to protect the ship’s railings:

I’ve considered kitbashing the model, which would mean removing the railings, moving the “rail cutout,” deck houses and deck furniture forward, increasing the beam, and using photoetch railings, but taking on those tasks really is impossible, at least for my skill level and the time I have left on this benighted planet. So what to do?

The other models I’ve completed — a helicopter and two airplanes — are sufficiently realistic to satisfy me, but I’m not sure that my “Repose” will ever truly please me. But to stop the effort means the waste of a considerable amount of money, especially since a third Haven model is on its way to me — that one I wanted to paint pure white from stem to stern and keel to topmast, with the only colour being the red crosses. And I’ve even ordered expensive custom-made bases for both of the models.

I would certainly learn a lot if I decide to finish both models, and they will be attractive, but I think I will have to suspend my disbelief and accept that the models will sorta look like Repose, and help me to remember my very memorable time as one of her wounded patients following Operation Utah in South Vietnam in 1966. 

Your thoughts will be welcomed!

Bob

CapnMac82

One of the things about tiny things is that suggestions of shape are often more important than the exact geometry. So, perhaps 0.0125 square strip might be a better than trying to adapt a round to suit. It a person is 12" away from the 1/480 model, they are 480 scale feet away--perciving a true round at such a distance (160 yards) will be a test of human eyesight.

Thanks for your thoughts, CapnMac82. I agree — the suggestion of shape is all that's really needed on such small scales. The deck drains as seen on some photos of the real USS Repose seem to be half-round, so "sinking" the 0.1 mm rods into scored lines makes them appear sort of, kind of half-round. And the scored lines make it really easy to put the rods in place and at right angles to the waterline (assuming that I get the 3M tape strips at a 90-degree angle to the waterline!). In any event, I've got my 0.1mm round rods, and my scriber, and my 3M tape, so I might as well use them. 

I like your analogy of "scale looking" at scale models. I've told my wife that my 1/72 and 1/48 models look best when viewed from about six feet away. And the deck drains I have installed so far look fine, at least in my opinion.   

Some of my experiences in professional photography apply. I spent the last decade of my working life as the owner/photographer of my own portrait studio. Once I took a photo of a wedding party in a local park, but it had a problem: in the foreground were hundreds of shiny pebbles, each one reflecting a bright spot of sunlight. That was in the days before computer programs like Photoshop, so I had to do all of my retouching with brushes and dyes. Before the retouching, all of those bright specs took the viewer's attention away from the wedding party. But after I carefully applied a spec of dark dye to each pebble, the wedding party kind of leapt into prominence.

The same thing happens with models, it seems, but the "retouching" (aside from repairing small painting errors, removing globs of putty and glue, etc.) consists of adding small details, including weathering, that are scarecly noticeable in isolation but add a great deal to realism, so much so that without those details you have a model that looks very much like a model instead of the real thing.

Bob

Bob, i would cut all the railings off as overscaled besides being solid on the model when they are not on the real ship. do it after gluing the decks in place or try it on your 1st model to see how to do it & if you like the look. i've done that to my 2 versions of that class but after i made & glued in place new decks.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/12/091216143.jpg

One of the things about tiny things is that suggestions of shape are often more important than the exact geometry.

So, perhaps 0.0125 square strip might be a better than trying to adapt a round to suit.

It a person is 12" away from the 1/480 model, they are 480 scale feet away--perciving a true round at such a distance (160 yards) will be a test of human eyesight.

Using styrene would warrant a certain amount of sanding, which will "break" the edges to help the round-ness.

Alternately, the other place to look would be in a soft round item like solder, which to steal an idea from above, could be pressed into a scribed line to hold it down a bit.  Using accelerator and a thin CA would be the approach I'd use (as in a spritz of accelerator on the hull, then hold the solder in place and then dribble CA on--which ought to bind instanly).

As you have discovered one of the downsides to Medium & gel CA is that it dries far harder than styrene.  So, the thin may be your answer.

Your Mileage May Vary

First, a thank you to the several FineScale members who have offered suggestions about the best way to install deck drains on my conversion of a Haven-class S.S. Hope hospital ship model to a model of U.S.S. Repose. 

Based on those suggestions, I bought a recommended scriber, some thick 3M tape to use as a guide for scribing, and some .1mm round styrene rods. As the attached photo shows, your ideas worked (and the drains are much easier to install than I ever dreamed they would be):

Now the bad news: I have given up on the first attempt because of multiple problems. The model, based on Revell's release in the mid-1950s of a U.S.S. Haven model and using the same moulds, is just godawful. Nearly all parts have huge amounts of flash and sinkholes on them, and few of them fit well. Both halves of the hull and the upper deck were badly warped, although I was able to glue them together, barely, and the hull still needs some putty. The main deck had to be trimmed a great deal to get it seated properly in the hull.

What really got to me, however, was painting the forcastle, poop deck, and helicopter pad dark grey, the wooden main and first decks tan, and white for the deck houses and equipment. I used brushes and Tamiya acrylics — I don't have an airbrush, which I think would be pretty much useless for the decks anyway. By the time I learned about acrylic retarders, I had made a streaky mess of the decks and the deck houses. I also tried to do some "weathering" on the ship's solid railings to make seem more like real railings, but they just looked dirty, so I repainted them white.

Overall, the model is poorly designed, poorly moulded, and grossly inaccurate in scale and detail. For example, the Seahorse helicopter that comes with the kit is at least a third smaller than it should be, and the deck houses, masts, derrecks, and lifeboats seem to have little similarity to those of the actual ships. Still, because I was a patient on Repose in 1966, I want a model of Repose, so I've started working on another one, this time of U.S.S. Haven, which is identical to the Hope model except for instructions and decals.

I'm currently installing the deck drains, and plan to spraypaint the decks and other superstructure components white, and then add the grey decking, armed with acrylic paint, retarder, and a couple of new, small, angle-tipped brushes. Hopefully things will go more smoothly this time, especially if it the hull doesn't fall off a shelf and break like it did on Sunday! Thank god for modern glues and tools.

There is just no way that my model Repose will look like the real Repose. But at least for me, it will be a version of what the real ship looked like, and that's all that's necessary. I'm building it for me, nor for a judge. The other models I've completed since I reentered the hobby in mid-2019 — an HP.52  Hampden bomber, a UH-34 Seahorse helicopter, and a T-34 Mentor trainer — are similarly inaccurate, but they mean a lot to me because they represent significant parts of my personal history.  

Bob 

ddp59

is the white part of the hull painted or unpainted? what are you using to remove excess CA or solvent glue or how are you trying to remove it?

After my stillborn experience trying to use bristles from a broom, and re-sanding/re-painting the hull, I'm going to complete it without the deck drains. But I've ordered another SS Hope kit in hopes (!) of installing deck drains on it. 

To remove excess CA or solvent glue, I've used X-Acto style chisel blades, files, sandpaper, sanding sticks, and Novus scratch remover and Plastic Clean & Shine. I've yet to bring plastic back to its original smoothness.

Bob    

is the white part of the hull painted or unpainted? what are you using to remove excess CA or solvent glue or how are you trying to remove it?

ddp59

mark the hull both above & below the drains locations, cut drains to length, flatten 1 side of drain by scrapping with a bade, run a bead of testors glue or similar but not ca as can be knocked off the hull & glue into previously marked locations. let cure then remove excess glue using sharp chisel blade.

Bob

I must start with the caveat that I'm not (yet) a boat builder, but what you're looking to do sounds like it would be quite easy to do by:

• Scribe lines with a reasonably thick blade where you want the drain pipes installed, to a reasonable depth that could hide some of the rod (I'm thinking something like O>), thereby eliminating need to sand
• Use the scribed lines to guide installation and hold glue

If you could use a solvent glue, it would hold quickly, but man, that's a risk with the painted hull.  You might be able to use microdots of CA in the groove you scribe, then press the rod into it.

Anyway, I'm offering ideas that I may not be qualified to do, so...  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

mark the hull both above & below the drains locations, cut drains to length, flatten 1 side of drain by scrapping with a bade, run a bead of testors glue or similar but not ca as can be knocked off the hull & glue into previously marked locations. let cure then remove excess glue using sharp chisel blade.

One possibility: Simply (or perhaps "simply") sand the .02" rod down by 25%. It sholdn't be too hard to do that so that the diameter stays relatively even.

I am unsure, however, how I would attach the deck drains. I tried using super glue on my experiment with broom bristles, which were about the right size, but it was very difficult to position them correctly and apply the super glue. Any suggestions?

An idea did just occur to me: perhaps I could tape the deck drain pieces to the hull so they would stay in place while I lifted them slightly to apply tiny drops of super glue.

Bob 

if you don't mind slightly over scale then can use .5mm rod for drains.

https://evergreenscalemodels.com/collections/14-polystyrene-rod/products/218-020-5mm-od-rod

6" x 25.4mm / 480 = .3175mm

https://evergreenscalemodels.com/collections/14-polystyrene-rod

Thanks, ddp59. You're right. I've edited my original post about this topic to reflect reality. And now it's time to leave math to people who know what they're doing and go back to modelling. I thought I had made a typo, but that's not the case. I just had a lot of trouble converting inches to decimals and remembering to double check what I had typed. Yeesh! I think I'll go and sniff some super glue….

Bob 

Bob, 6" / 480 = .0125" not .1".

GMorrison

As for the deck drains, at least you gave it a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?

Bill

That's awesome, Bob.

As for the deck drains, at least you gave it a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?

Coming along very nicely. The bottom paint is a nice color, well done.

Bill

GMorrison

Have you made any accomodations for a base? Now is the time. You've already glued the hull and topsides together so it will be a little trick, but here is what I suggest.

Plan on two pedestals. For longer ships i.e. narrower ones, I usually go it 25% from each end (overall length). Beamier ones; 33%.

check topside once you have your intended dimensions and find a symetrical set of numbers fore/aft that land both points inside a deckhouse.

Once you have that, mark the centerline on the bottom, measure and drill a pair of holes. Flip her rightside up and drill a pair of holes as large as you can get away with, say 1/2".

Grap a pair of long skinny bolts, say 10-24 x 3". and two pairs on nuts. Thread one on each bolt at least 1/2".

Stick each up through the holes in the hull and get anothe nut threaded on each tightish.

Put epoxy on the end of a skewer and butter it around the outside of each nut.

When dry, unscrew the bolts.

I usually put the ship on a temporay base at this point, that's another discussion.

Bill

@ Bill: Thank you for your tips about creating a base for my model of SS Hope as USS Repose. They worked like a charm, although I wasn’t able to find the type of base that I would like to have — the few that are available on line don’t have the right length and width, are exorbitantly expensive, and shipping would double their price. But the base I now have will serve me well as I work on the model.

The following photos show the steps I took to attach the base, using 1½ X ¼” bolts and nuts and J-B Weld epoxy to secure the nuts. 

Holes drilled in bottom of hull:

Bolts and nuts attached to hull:

Nuts glued to hull:

Temporary base attached to hull:

Bob

Well, that didn't go well!

I attempted to install "deck drains" on the hull of the "Repose" hospital ship model I'm building, using a Revell model of SS Hope. If you're just now joining this conversation, you may not realize that SS Hope and USS Repose were both Haven-class hospital ships, and that the models were made using the same molds. And now, back to deck drains.

I only completed one drain. I spent at least half an hour on it, attaching a bristle from a broom with tiny drops of crazy glue and then painting it with primer. But it looked so bad, and adding another 15 or so drains seemed so difficult, that I decided to turn back the clock. 

Removing the one drain pipe was easy. It popped off with only slight pressure — the bristles must be made of polypropylene, which for some reason doesn't work with crazy glue. But the glue stuck like crazy to the hull, requiring another hour's of sanding, polishing, and repainting the upper hull with primer. I don't think it will ever look as it did before I tried installing the pipe. 

At this point, I'm planning to complete the build without the drain pipes, even though though the model would look a lot better, I think, if it had the pipes in place. They're obvious in several photos of Repose that I've found on-line. Here's a good example:

Any suggestions on how the drain pipes might still be installed would be welcome, but it might be worth giving up completely on them. Their absence won't be the only problem with this model's detail. I think the model will look pretty good when it's finished, but it will always have toy-like qualities. I do wonder why the original molds didn't include the drain pipes. 

You may recall that I ordered a second model of SS Hope from the same dealer that I bought the first one from, but that order went badly south: despite the eBay listing, it turned out that he didn't have a second model. Yesterday, I found an unopened kit of USS Haven being offered at a low price by a company in Seattle; perhaps the mistakes I am making with the Hope model can be avoided on a second attempt.

Bob

I would guess those deck drains are about 6" diameter, and true round. No good reason to make them half round.

That's 0.01 inches, or 0.025 mm at your scale. Nice detail. A nylon paint brush bristle would work well.

Bill

@CapnMac82: Hmmm....  Thanks for this information. It seems I wasn't wrong, not completely. Even though I joined the U.S. Navy in 1962, I served mostly on land, and dry-land sailors don't learn a lot about ships. However, it's amazing how much youi can learn by building ship models, even when they aren't well detailed. Still can't decide whether to try to add those downspouts.

Bob 

Bobstamp

I’m thinking that they may be downspouts from scuppers. Does anyone know?

Overboard discharges for things that use seawater for cooling or rinsing, where you want the water to not spray around.

Scuppers just drain over the deck edge.

But, given the various medical facilities inboard, routing the drains over the outside makes sense.

I was ready to spray the first coat of white paint on the hull my SS Hope/USS Repose model hospital ship when I got to wondering about some “structures” that are evident in nearly all properly exposed photographs of Repose, but aren’t moulded into the model’s hull. They are the raised, vertical strips that extend from the main deck to the waterline; I’ve circled them in red in this image:

At first, I thought they were welds where the hull plates were attached to each other, but they’re too big for that. They seem to be rounded, and perhaps 8 inches (20.3 centimetres) wide. I’m thinking that they may be downspouts from scuppers. Does anyone know?

Whatever they are, I'm thinking about adding them, using half-round styrene rods about 1 or 1.5 mm in diameter. However, having already painted the hull I can't imagine attaching the rods without damaging the paint. In the interests of mental health, perhaps I should ignore them! But I would like to learn your thoughts.

Bob

ddp59

keep on eye out for sales as got mine for $18.

$18! I checked my local (Vancouver) Canadian Tire store, and found the calipers, and discovered that they would cost me $44.99. I don't need them that much! But I would like to have a good pair, so I'll add it my list of modelling toys.

Thanks for your help.

Bob

keep on eye out for sales as got mine for $18.

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-digital-caliper-6-in-0586800p.html#srp

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/6-in-metal-vernier-caliper/A-p2940003e

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/6-in-sae-metric-composite-digital-caliper/A-p8609240e

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/6-in-metal-digital-caliper/A-p8609265e

ddp59

Bob, do you have a Princess Auto &\or Canadian Tire close to you?

Bob, do you have a Princess Auto &\or Canadian Tire close to you?

Hi;

 Go to the tool thread and read the post I am going to do right after this one to you.

ddp59

Bob, what did you use to measure the length & width of the model?  the model is wider at the main deck then at the bottom of the hull so otherwords it is tapered when the hull sides should be parallel to each other. the only way to correct that is to narrow the main deck so sides are parallel which messes up the width of all structures on that deck & above.

seahorse drawing https://enacademic.com/pictures/enwiki/83/Sikorsky_SH-34G_line_drawings.PNG

Bob, what did you use to measure the length & width of the model?  the model is wider at the main deck then at the bottom of the hull so otherwords it is tapered when the hull sides should be parallel to each other. the only way to correct that is to narrow the main deck so sides are parallel which messes up the width of all structures on that deck & above.

seahorse drawing https://enacademic.com/pictures/enwiki/83/Sikorsky_SH-34G_line_drawings.PNG

ddp59

Bob, the scale is wrong. real ship was 520' long x 12" x 2.54cm = 15849.6cm / 32.8cm model length = 1/483.2195 scale. i measured a built Haven class model using my 24" caliper that is also metric. that scale gives the model beam of 4.51cm

http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/12/1216.htm

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/revell-h320-169-haven--178933

The "baby helicopter" that's supplied with the kit is clearly too small, but I think I can scratchbuild a slightly larger, believeable version. The kit's "least correct" or "most incorrect" specification seems to be the beam, which should be, as you say, about a half centimetre greater than it is. But I have a "fix" for that, and it's not kitbashing until the beam is correct. I don't even know how to do that! Instead, I'll only look at the completed model from the port or starboard sides, never toward the bow or stern! 

Bob, the scale is wrong. real ship was 520' long x 12" x 2.54cm = 15849.6cm / 32.8cm model length = 1/483.2195 scale. i measured a built Haven class model using my 24" caliper that is also metric. that scale gives the model beam of 4.51cm. do not think Repose got lengthened in 1968 as was continously busy from Feb 1966 to Jan 1970 according to it's Vietnam War Campaigns list.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/12/1216.htm

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/revell-h320-169-haven--178933

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Repose_(AH-16)

@Bill: Thank you for this additional detail. I agree, option one seems best. Looks like I'll have to put off gluing on the main deck and superstructure. 

Bob

P.S. I managed to screw up quoting you. Other users — just scroll up a few posts to see Bill's useful diagrams.

Shipwreck

It sounds like you have a good pre '68 Repose. Now, when were you a guest on her?

 

Some members have recently commented about about the scale of the U.S.S. Hope model that I’m building as the hospital ship U.S.S. Repose. They’ve suggested that the scale for the model is incorrect. That got me to questioning it as well. After spending some time with Google, Scalemates, and various mathematical conversion calculators, I’ve come to some conclusions of my own. Here they are:

Scale of Revell’s model of the hospital ship 

U.S.S. Hope, being built as U.S.S. Repose

• Length of ship before 1968:

520 ft / 6,240 in | 158.5 m / 15,850 cm

(Note: In 1968, a new section was added to Repose, increasing its length by 145 ft (44.2 m). Scalemates says Revell released the Hope model with new tooling in 1962, so it can represent the ship six years or more before it was lengthened.)

• Length of model: 

1.08 ft / 13 in        |.3302 m / 33.02 cm

• Scale of model as indicated by the kit’s description: 

1/471| 0.0021

If the 1/471 scale of model is correct for the ship as it was before 1968, the model should be13.1 inches long, just 0.1 inch longer than its actual length; I assume that some minor errors crept into my measurements, and perhaps into the measurements of the actual ship that are available on-line. 

Conclusion: The scale of the model, at least for the hull and deck parts, is essentially correct.

Math is not my strong suit, but I am confident that I’ve measured the parts correctly and done accurate conversions. However, if you think I’m in error, please let me know.

Coming up soon: My comments about the "baby" Seahorse helicopter that came with the kit.

Bob 

Hi Bob.

We were discussing mounting options.

I like to get my ships onto a base asap to keep from busting stuff off. Sometimes I use a temporary one, or for smaller models I use the final one and cover it with paper and tape. This also is handy for getting things square.

Option 1 is my preferred. Before the deck is added, or while the deckhouse locations are still open. Glue the nut inside the hull and the base can be detached and replaced at least a couple of times.

Option 2 is similar, but the bolt length becomes critical.

Option 3 may be where you are at. 

Bill

Luvspinball

Forgive my ignorance, but if she is just parked on the deck, wouldn't she be stowed with the rotors folded?....

Bob

The Navy hospital ships did not have helicopters that were permanently attached to them (attached in the military, not the mechanical sense). Helicopters based on other ships or ashore were tasked with transporting wounded patients from combat to hospital ships, then after treatment returning them to their units or continuing the evacuation process.

Bob

Forgive my ignorance, but if she is just parked on the deck, wouldn't she be stowed with the rotors folded?  Less likely to injure the crew in choppy seas.  Again, I am untrained in the art of aircraft stowed on ships.  Perhaps if anchored in a calm harbor when ferrying patients on/off they would be in flight configuration.  But perhaps an alternate option.

The paper and copper options sound like the way to go.  Either would be much closer to scale than the "thick" plastic provided.

Bob

OMG no burners!

I would guess everything about that kit part is incorrect- rotor circle dimension etc.

I pulled out my Choctaw references the other day for a different project- the diameter is 56"-0".

At your scale, that's 1.427inches.

Rotor droop is considerable. Looking at photos the droop looks to be at least 36 inches.

Call it 0.075 inches at scale. That's at least 1/16 inch.

Rotation is counterclockwise.

You have instruction from the Choctaw you're building. Or wiki has a nice three view.

The kit part is crap. Everything about it is wrong and getting it right will really look swell.

Save the hub part, toss the rest. I suggest you print it out at scale on stiff paper. 

Paint the back black, cut the thing out and paint the top.

Glue it on the hub, hand brush a little silver. Bend them down 1/16".

Bill

Hi,

I can't vouch for this technique, as I have never tried it for helicopter blades, but you could try "burnishing(?)" the blade set by pushing down lightly at their center with a curved spoon and and rubbing in a circular motion to try and cause a small amount of difference in height between the blade tips and hub center.

Pat

Bobstamp

in a much smaller scale — 1/471;

For 2¢ the answer is in the question.  A 12" droop is 0.0254" (about 0.6mm), which going to be about half the thickness of the plastic rotor blade maybe.  Perhaps a whole thickness.

That's not going to be very visible.

Now, if you replace the blades with, say, 26 gauge copper sheeting, that could be curled, gently, to suit.  Potentially less likely to break, too.  Ok, 26 guage is 0.01875, about 8 inches to scale, but finding thinner will be tough.

Hello Bob!

I'd say don't bother with softening the plastic - just bend them a little and it should be OK. With the exception of plastic so hard it would snap right away some of the bend usually stays with the part. Taking the panny you got in the photo as a jig might help you get all four blades uniform. Hope it helps, good luck with your build and have a nice day

Paweł

how thick are the blades as should be almost paper thin? do you have a piece of .01" sheet plastic to use the pictured rotor as a template to trace & cutout a new rotor out of that sheet plastic?

New problem: 

FineScale members have pointed out that main helicopter rotors, even tiny ones, just don’t look right if they don’t droop. The main rotor of the Italeri 1/72 UH-34D Seahorse that I’m working on came with droop built in, but I’ll eventually be working another Seahorse in a much smaller scale — 1/471; it’s part of the S.S. Hope hospital ship model that's the subject of this discussion; I’m building it as U.S.S. Repose, the hospital ship on which I was a patient after I was wounded in Vietnam. The main rotor of that minuscule model is only 3cm in diameter, 20.5 cm less than the 1/72 model. And it doesn’t droop at all. Here’s a photo:    

Question: How can I get it to droop realistically? I’ve considered heating it over a stovetop burner, but I think it would be difficult to obtain symmetry that way, and it could easily be damaged. Boiling water? Styrene cement to soften the plastic so it can be warped? Your suggestions will be much appreciated.

Bob

GMorrison

I'm really impressed, Bob. You want some contrast with the crosses that'll be spread all over the ship.

Have you made any accomodations for a base? 

Thank your for compliment, Bill. I will confess that I produced a bit of sweat during the painting of the hull.

I don’t think that there will be any problem with the crosses. They are all placed on the white upper works of Repose. Here’s a Navy photo taken off the coast of South Vietnam about seven weeks after I was a surgical patient on the ship.

If I understand the technique you explained, it’s a way to “invisibly” allow attachment of the model to a base. I had been planning to use the cradles that are supplied with the model (see image below), but your method seems better (and safer).

Bob

I'm really impressed, Bob. You want some contrast with the crosses that'll be spread all over the ship.

Have you made any accomodations for a base? Now is the time. You've already glued the hull and topsides together so it will be a little trick, but here is what I suggest.

Plan on two pedestals. For longer ships i.e. narrower ones, I usually go it 25% from each end (overall length). Beamier ones; 33%.

check topside once you have your intended dimensions and find a symetrical set of numbers fore/aft that land both points inside a deckhouse.

Once you have that, mark the centerline on the bottom, measure and drill a pair of holes. Flip her rightside up and drill a pair of holes as large as you can get away with, say 1/2".

Grap a pair of long skinny bolts, say 10-24 x 3". and two pairs on nuts. Thread one on each bolt at least 1/2".

Stick each up through the holes in the hull and get anothe nut threaded on each tightish.

Put epoxy on the end of a skewer and butter it around the outside of each nut.

When dry, unscrew the bolts.

I usually put the ship on a temporay base at this point, that's another discussion.

Bill

Surface_Line

Red for the bottom?  Yes, a black undercoat would help a lot. The red you want is almost maroon, and very flat.  And if it has a touchof brown to it, that's not bad either.

Rick

red for the bottom?  Yes, a black undercoat would help a lot.  The red you want is almost maroon, and very flat.  And if it has a touchof brown to it, that's not bad either.

Rick

can always try these. https://www.bnamodelworld.com/hobby-tools-supplies-hobby-knife-blades-trumpeter-models-tr-09924?zenid=dde2a0b588132c607fdd32c3a7d9f00e

Tanker-Builder

Guess what? Some of those puppies can be fixed. The ones in tight areas can be fixed too. It's by careful( Very Careful) applications of C.A. You can build it up in layers like they do resin lakes in and on Model RailRoad sites. The whole trick is, Do NOT use Accelerator!!!

Thanks for the tip. I've managed fill most of the sinkholes with putty, at least enough to hide them. The big challenge was finding a small enough X-Acto-type chisel blade to smooth filled sinkholes that are in very cramped spaces on the deck. Next time I'll try C.A. 

Bob

Hi;

 Guess what? Some of those puppies can be fixed. The ones in tight areas can be fixed too. It's by careful( Very Careful) applications of C.A. You can build it up in layers like they do resin lakes in and on Model RailRoad sites. The whole trick is, Do NOT use Accelerator!!!

I'm near the point of painting the hull of my model S.S. Hope, which I am building as the hospital ship U.S.S. Repose (the subject of this thread). The instructions call for the lower part of the hull to be red. I have a rattle can of Tamiya Pure Red (TS-86), which is very bright, if the cap is any guide. Is it a reasonable plan to lay down an undercoat coat of black (following the primer) and then spray a light coat of red over it to simulate a darker-red, weathered look?

Bob 

GMorrison

I should clarify. I didn't mean to be flip; actually there is some use to gluing down details over casting flaws that cant be fixed. As long as one is systematic and not too excessive in application, it can be a "sell" as superdetails.

Bill

It didn't occur even occur to me that you were being flippant, Bill. Nor did I understand that your comment was a suggestion. Now it all makes sense, and such "super details" are a great idea, especially since I think those sinkholes are going to be difficult to camouflage.

After filling them all with putty, and noting that one application wasn't enough, I realized that at least some of them will be hidden by the overhang of the ship's upper decks. Still, I have a lot of them to deal with. This red dots in this photo show the location of the sinkholes that aren't hidden by the superstructure (and I may have missed a couple):

Since the kit's detailing is pretty poor to begin with, some fake-but-believable detailing should help to make the model seem more realistic.

Bob

Bob,

I should clarify. I didn't mean to be flip; actually there is some use to gluing down details over casting flaws that cant be fixed. As long as one is systematic and not too excessive in application, it can be a "sell" as superdetails.

Bill

Bobstamp

The bigger problem is presented by the many sinkholes. I'm filling them, but the putty and sanding will obliterate some of that fine detail.

Ah, the "joys" of older (and elderly) kit building.

You could scribe your own planking lines.  To scale is probably out of the question (would be a blizzard of lines) so, you'd want to decide on a representational width, say 1/16 or so, after all the pothole filling.

Or, you could ger a coat of paint down, and use a 4H pencil to get lines in, which would obviate using a wash.

Or not, this is yours to build.  We are but spectators.

GMorrison

Bob, that's what scale crates of medical supplies are for!

Bob, that's what scale crates of medical supplies are for!

CapnMac82

Is there any tesxture on the deck at all?

Base of Radome Tan, perhaps, with a wash or uneven over spray of Deck Tan.  Possibly with an Umber oil wash to bring out details.

Then, hand paint the details as required.

That's my 2¢

@CapnMac82:

I took a closer look at the deck, and it does have barely visible planking on portions of all decks. It's such fine detail, however, will probably be hidden by even a thin coat of paint, but perhaps a darker wash would give the illusion of detail. The bigger problem is presented by the many sinkholes. I'm filling them, but the putty and sanding will obliterate some of that fine detail.

Bob

...

No detail at all, smooth as a baby's bottom except for about 20 sinkholes that will have to be filled. Thanks for the suggestion.

Bob

Bobstamp

I’m open to suggestions about the wood tones.

Is there any tesxture on the deck at all?

Base of Radome Tan, perhaps, with a wash or uneven over spray of Deck Tan.  Possibly with an Umber oil wash to bring out details.

Thne, hand paint the details as required.

That's my 2¢

I guess one of my first tasks in building S.S. Hope as U.S.S. Repose will be painting the decks as realistically as possible, medium grey for the main deck and helicopter pad, “blond” tones for the upper decks, and grey again for the flying bridge. This is one of the best pictures of Repose’s decksthat I’ve seen:

I’m open to suggestions about the wood tones. On such a small scale model, it would be silly to try to try for a wood-grain effect, so it’s mainly colour plus, perhaps, a bit of weathering.

Bob 

leave the railings on til after you glue the decks to the hull as the bottom of the railings hid the edges of each deck level.

Bobstamp

"Should I, shouldn't I? —Advice needed for purchase of very old Revell model”

No more "Should I, shouldn't I?" because I did!

The model of the Haven-class ship model SS Hope arrived today in good condition, and I have to say I'm quite excited about building it to represent USS Repose, the hospital ship I was evacuated to after I was wounded in South Vietnam.

I knew that the model's quality wouldn't be up to 2020 standards since the original molds were used to make it, and it is indeed clunky: Some details don't seem to have been part of the original Repose at all. The fit is iffy — there's lots of flash and some sink marks, and two of the deck sections are warped in opposite directions, but that’s what tape and rubber bands were made for. 

I’m undecided about what to do about the railings, which are way too large for the scale, but too small to open up. I’m pretty sure I’m not ready to get into the fine detail that photo-etch parts would provide or the finicky work that attaching them would entail. (I’m wondering if painting the openings between the rails and posts to simulate “open air” would be effective or even possible. I may try that, and if it doesn’t work and the rails get too messed up, I’ll fall back on the back-up kit that I’ve purchased. I firmly believe in the old maxim, "If you screwed up once, you'll probably screw up again!)

I’ve read quite a bit about the experiences of other builders of Revell Haven-class models, but I’m certainly open to more advice.

Bob

don't worry about my somewhat kitbashing as these are my models & those are yours. look at my General G.O. Squier link as i'm using the Hope hull there.

Just found these very nice models of USS Haven, built from an SS Hope kit. The web page has no information about the build itself or contact information for the builder. The deck colours seem to support some of the posts in this thread. I'm really beginning to look forward to building my SS Repose! I'm a bit concerned about ddp59's comments about scratch-building the decks, but the model shown in these pictures, built straight from the Hope box, seems to be sufficiently realistic looking for me.

Bob

just correcting the sides of the hull so that they are parallel to each other instead of angled away from each other from the hull bottom. because of the correction, new decks & superstructures have to be made. hull is not touched at all except for the removal of all the railings. i do this all the time.

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=165137

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=165105

Bobstamp

The "green stripe," I'm thinking, is actually an age-toned dark grey stripe. I don't think it was painted like the "red" crosses — the stripes' edges are perfectly straight and parallel. (During the Vietnam War, Repose didn't have any stripes on the hull, red or green.)

Ah, no, the Green Stripe is mandated by the Hague Conventions of the Laws of Armed Conflict as a required marking for hospital ships.  As are the number and size of the red crosses.  That's whiy the absence is striking.

Navsource generally only uses "historical" photos with attributable info.  So, generally only first-source photos that have not been doctored or altered except on the original. 

Now, that does not mean that variances in computer monitors, the resolution of the source and display, and the like, do not create anomolies.  Even the film stock used for the photos matter.  So, we generally have to take a grain of salt or two with such data.

So, the early B&W photos certainly suggest wood upper decks from at least the 01 or 02 and up.  The color does not suggest teak, though; more of a redwood color to me. Or not. 

Marine wood decks are typically made up of 4x4 about 20' long set on "Z" sleepers over the metal base deck; the wood is generally for traction, andor to add stiffness to thin (1/4") shell plating decks.

Now, since 1947 or so, Auxillary ships like hospital ships were operted byt the US Merchant Marine, and embarked with USN BuMed personnel as needed.  So, the wood decks might have been  covered in linoleum of a yellowish-red-orange color.  Or one of the various Deck paints might have been applied.  Linoleum was used on USN ships in areas that might need more traction--signal platforms and searchlight flats.

Those are all generalities, sadly.

ddp59

To make the hull sides perpendicular, all new decks have to be made which means new superstructures.

I think I'll have to get the model in hand before I fully understand this. It seems from your description that you are going to kitbash the kits so much that you'll essentially be building them from scratch, which is not something I'm ready for. 

Bob

there is no newer kits as they used the original molds as used on your models & mine.  the width of the hull at the main deck on the models are wider at 5cm when it is supposed to be 4.5 cm. the scale of the model when measured calculates to 1/482.484 scale. the real ship is 520' long by 71.5' wide. http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/12/1215.htm

model is 32.85cm long by 4.5cm using the above scale. the reason for the 2 different width dimensions has to do with the mold as they have tapered sides to allow parts to be extracted easier then perpendicular sides.

to make the hull sides perpendicular, all new decks have to be made which means new superstructures.

ddp59

good. what did you pay for the 2nd 1? i'm doing 2 of mine for 2 different time periods as with helo pad & without. mine will have all new decks & superstructures due to the correct beam of 4.5cm instead of almost 5cm.

 

good. what did you pay for the 2nd 1? i'm doing 2 of mine for 2 different time periods as with helo pad & without. mine will have all new decks & superstructures due to the correct beam of 4.5cm instead of almost 5cm.

I went ahead and ordered the model of Hope that was listed on eBay. And then, moments later, I got a message from Modelma'am saying that he had just mailed the correct model to me. In an earlier email he said he didn't need me to return the Long Beach model.

I actually like having two examples of models I've decided to build. Twice now, having a second model has saved me the trouble of trying to obtain replacements for broken/lost parts, and one of the second models has served as a useful test bed.

Thanks to everyone for their advice and information.

Bob

amphib

Navsource has a series of pictures taken on commisioning day for the Repose. These show a wood deck on the level that had the whelen davits and perhaps others. As to the color, it would appear that the steel decks were painted white and perhaps the wood as well.

2nd that motion as could do a dispute with ebay backing you as you never got the model you paid for.

Bob,

  Message Modelmamm as soon as you can.  I was curioius about that kit being listed again. I sent him a message about it but he never replied.

  He has relisted it yet again, this time with a bidding option.

Unless he told you he has an EXTRA kit, you will want him to remove the listing and send you the kit.  Guess you will have to return the Long Beach.

It is the best deal I have seen on ebay for a Revell Hospital ship.

If it were me, I think I would just buy it for the Buy Now of $27.00  and figure out the other issue later. ebay will cover you i bet.

     Jim.

Navsource has a series of pictures taken on commisioning day for the Repose. These show a wood deck on the level that had the whelen davits and perhaps others. As to the color, it would appear that the steel decks were painted white and perhaps the wood as well.

CapnMac82

Here's Haven, whih what appear to be Deck Gary decks

Then, this one, of Repose, seems to show the 100 and 01 Decks in Deck Gray, and the 02 and above decks in tha "wood" color.  (Which, frighteningly enough, seems to resemble the Sand Yellow + Rust color recommendation by Revell--unless those aew redwod decks, maybe?)

All of these VN era photos of Repose show here without the green stripe, which is curious.

I think there's are explanations for the odd colours in these photos.

The photo of Haven seems to me to be a black-and-white photo that has been rather badly coloured by hand or perhaps with a computer. If you enlarge the photo, you can easily see that the red crosses are not even close to being "squared away":

You can even see parts of the cross that weren't covered by red, and look tan; I think this is an old photograph, "sepia-toned" by age, that someone has tried to "accurize". In addition, there is a very blotchy cross midship on the topmost deck, and an odd "Christmas tree" antenna "decorated" with red blotches that are apparently supposed to be lights.

The "green stripe," I'm thinking, is actually an age-toned dark grey stripe. I don't think it was painted like the "red" crosses — the stripes' edges are perfectly straight and parallel. (During the Vietnam War, Repose didn't have any stripes on the hull, red or green. Other Repose photos, from the 1950s show only the crosses, too.)

Before the advent of inexpensive, accurate colour printing, there were professional artists who used watercolours and oils to colorize black-and-white photos. This photo of the Haven wasn't coloured by a professional! 

Now about that Repose photo: There are no obvious, distinct shadows, so the day was probably lightly overcast, which is excellent for photographing high-contrast subjects. The upper decks are well lighted by the sky, whereas the lower decks are lightly shadowed by the overheads and therefore appear darker than the upper decks.

I'm sticking with the "theory" that Repose's decks were wooden.

Bob

P.S. I've now seen a similar image of Repose similar to the one at the top of this post. I'm now convinced that some postcard company hand-painted a black-and-white photograph of Repose so they could publish "color" postcards. That technique is not at all uncommon, although it's usually done with more finesse.

Navsourse can be a gem, or a frustration.

Here's Haven, whih what appear to be Deck Gary decks

Then, this one, of Repose, seems to show the 100 and 01 Decks in Deck Gray, and the 02 and above decks in tha "wood" color.  (Which, frighteningly enough, seems to resemble the Sand Yellow + Rust color recommendation by Revell--unless those aew redwod decks, maybe?)

All of these VN era photos of Repose show here without the green stripe, which is curious.

Nino

Wasn't that "Modelmamm" that you bought from?

There is HOPE!

  There is  another listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/REVELL-1-471th-SCALE-HOSPITAL-SHIP-SS-HOPE-85-0007/164265293021?epid=16016798376&hash=item263ef974dd:g:UO8AAOSwe9Vb~7Ft

Shows as NEW too.  In fact, it looks like the original Listing, including the price,

 

Nino

Thanks, Nino. That's right, it is Modelma'am I'm dealing with. The eBay listing seems identical, so yes, there may be HOPE!

Bob

Bobstamp

Some days just don't go as planned...

 

Bob 

 

Wasn't that "Modelmamm" that you bought from?

There is HOPE!

  There is  another listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/REVELL-1-471th-SCALE-HOSPITAL-SHIP-SS-HOPE-85-0007/164265293021?epid=16016798376&hash=item263ef974dd:g:UO8AAOSwe9Vb~7Ft

Shows as NEW too.  In fact, it looks like the original Listing, including the price,

     Nino

Bob, have some patience to see what happens.

You can bet that the seller felt terrible for sending something different from what you had arranged. 

Was this Long Beach in the plain white box with just a paper picture glued on?  That was the wayRevell sent their Master Modeler Club offerings, many years ago.  Many years ago (but some less than "many many") I got a couple of those - a Long Beach and a harbor tug.  Don't think I have opened them yet.  I assume they have the right kits inside...

Some days just don't go as planned...

Following advice in this thread, I ordered a Revell model of SS Hope in hopes of building it as the hospital ship U.S.S. Repose, where I had surgery following my being wounded in Operation Utah in South Vietnam in 1966. Yesterday, our letter carrier called to say he'd left a package for me in our apartment building's mail room. I went right down there to retrieve it, and was pleased to see that it contained my SS Hope model. However...

When I opened the box, out slid a model that certainly wasn't SS Hope. It was the "atomic cruiser" USS Long Beach. I immediately sent a message to the dealer, via eBay, and he immediately apologized for his error and said he would get back to me. He did, several hours later, saying that he would "try" to find the SS Hope model, and that he wasn't sure it was worth having me return the Long Beach model, unless it was the only one he had in his stock! I'm sure that I'll eventually obtain an SS Hope model, but I am just a little irritated! Ebay sales don't always go smoothly, but I've never hae one that was screwed up that badly. And I may end up with a Long Beach model that I don't want.

Bob 

Great photos. Thanks for helping to figure out the colour question.

Bob

An additioinal Color pics; USS Repose, 1969.  Nice wood decks.

(Pics may not post here so links below.)

(You can click on the "x" of the "photo" and the picture will appear)

 http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/12/09121613.jpg

http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/12/09121617.jpg

Nice collection:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/12/1216b.htm

    Nino

I've never found more than a scarce handful of colour photos of any of the Haven-class hospital ships, but these links will show you two of the seemingly helpful ones:

https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/408983209895990399/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/26574751@N06/18502817304/in/photostream/

These photos both show yellowish decks.

This video shows a few images USS Repose with what appears to be a dark steel grey deck:

https://www.amazon.com/Hospital-Ship-USS-Repose-Corpsmen/dp/B0010VUY86

I remember how surprised I was when I went aboard an American cruiser at Yokosuka, Japan to deliver a message. Sailors were holystoning the wooden deck, which was a soft, light grey, perhaps with overtones of brown. I also remember getting chewed out when I leaned against a bulkhead waiting for an officer to reply to the message. We corpsman weren't always squared away!

Bob

Bobstamp

 Here's an aerial photo showing the barges that facilitated the transfer of wounded soldiers to Haven, obviously taken before the installation of the ship's helipad.

This is a collective question.  Looking at that photo, what color is the deck? 
Looks a little pale to be Deck Gray, but the contrast of all that white could be throwing off the contrast, too.

Or, is that a green deck?

These were often MSC ships, even with "USS" names, and they often were more merchant painted than USN painted.

One thing is for sure, the half-yellow half rust color called out in the Revell instruction sheet is flat wrong.

Hi;

 I know I am late to the conversation. I would definitely do the rail removal thing. REVELL always told you in the instructions to paint the "Rails- Walls"? silver? Who ever would paint warship or other vessel rails silver, anyway? Even on the S.S. Lurline in the seventies the rails were white with Wood cap-rails.

I learned that, thanks!

I missed the SS versus USS. 

Bill

G,

You were sot of correct when you said "Hope is a Comfort Class ship. Her sisters are Comfort and Mercy. They have no real resemblance to the Haven Class."

The deal is that we made a point to say USS Haven and SS HOPE, as SS HOPE was actually the former USS Consolation (AH-15), not to be confused with the Navy's USS Hope (AH-7).  You are certainly right that AH-7 was not similar to the USS Haven class.

Note - I capitalize SS HOPE because that was how it was painted on the side of the ship, but it doesn't seem to have been any kind of acronym and it was a part of Project Hope, so I should try to write it in mixed case just like the name of a Navy ship.

Best regards,
Rick Heinbaugh

ddp59

no problem. was the shipping cost $12 or are you doing pickup? you are the 2nd Canadian that i know off that served in Vietnam as i worked with 1 during the early 80's who was there with the 101st airborne.

Modelma'am knocked the shipping price down to $10. North Van's not far but I don't drive and don't want to risk public transit, even though BC has very nearly flattened the COVID-19 infection curve through social distancing and wearing of masks in public. 

I was still an American when I was in Vietnam, although I did not volunteer to go to Vietnam. I'd become a Navy hospital corpsman and was seconded to the Marines, which don't have their own medical personnel. About 10,000 Canadians did volunteer for Vietnam. Those who survived, even if wounded, receive no benefits, and their records were destroyed soon after the war. My wife and I emigrated to Canada in 1969 and are now dual Canadian-American citizens.

Bob

no problem. was the shipping cost $12 or are you doing pickup? you are the 2nd Canadian that i know off that served in Vietnam as i worked with 1 during the early 80's who was there with the 101st airborne.

ddp59

Bob, got an email from modelmaam about the shipping to Canada for that model.

"All updated now. Thanks for pointing this out

Bob"

@ddp59: Thank you for helping with this. The Hope model has been ordered and paid for.

Bob, got an email from modelmaam about the shipping to Canada for that model.

"All updated now. Thanks for pointing this out
Bob"

GMorrison

Nice piece of information.... 

 Here's an aerial photo showing the barges that facilitated the transfer of wounded soldiers to Haven, obviously taken before the installation of the ship's helipad.

One of the best items in my Vietnam War collection of stamps and covers is a Japanese postcard, posted by an American sailor from Haven after it had transited the Suez Canal on its way to drop off French Army survivors of the battle of Dien Bien Phu at Oran, Algeria and Marseille. Those prisoners had become POWs of the Viet Minh following the battle, which played a major role in ending French colonialism in Indochina.

Bob

i contacted him too but with a link to this thread & that you live across the harbor from him. that $12 shipping is from his "Hope" post.

@ CapnMac82 & ddp59:

I have sent a message via eBay.com telling the seller that I want to buy the SS Hope model, but have not yet had a response. eBay.com won't let me purchase it because the seller "May not ship to Canada." The same listing is not available on eBay.ca.

Bob

Scalemates scale is wrong for that model as i measured 2 have class models using my 2ft calipers that is both metric & imperial then did the calculations to get the scale.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/12/1215.htm

Bob, use CapnMac82's link to get the Hope for $26US as you can do local pickup from this area North Vancouver, British Columbia, V7R 2P8

SHIPPING TO CANADA -   $12.00

https://www.ebay.com/itm/REVELL-1-471th-SCALE-HOSPITAL-SHIP-SS-HOPE-85-0007/193294859821?epid=16016798376&hash=item2d01457e2d:g:UO8AAOSwe9Vb~7Ft

Nice piece of information, and the photo matches the artwork on the box. Good work.

So Revell didn't do so bad there. 

This is a never-ending story!

According to Wikipedia, "SS Hope was a hospital ship operated by Project HOPE. This vessel was originally a US Navy hospital ship, USS Consolation (AH-15)." Consolation, according to Wikipedia and several other sources, was a Haven Class ship, and the first hospital ship to be fitted with a helipad, during the Korean War. Previously, when patients were transported to the ship by helicopter, the helicopters landed on barges next to the ship and lifted aboard by crane, obviously not the most efficient way to get critically wounded soldiers into the ship's operating rooms. The idea for the helipad came from a surgeon who was on Consolation's medical staff.

Bob

Revell, although not uniquely; had a terrible habit of renaming kits and reissuing them without much regard to accuracy.

Hope is a Comfort Class ship. Her sisters are Comfort and Mercy. They have no real resemblance to the Haven Class.

A nifty site to visit is scalemates. They are a member driven data base, usually quite accurate, of kits, histories of same, reviews, very often pdfs of the cartoon pages, and aftermarket parts available.

Bill

Bobstamp, You have the best guys on the site advising you & I think , buy it is the word. I have at least 5 or 6 p-51's in my cabinets that belonged to my CO in WW2 & I have looked forever for Ralph Parr's F-86 decals in Korea. Neverer found his or Glenn Eaglestons F-86 decals. Definetly give txhe decals a coat of Decal coat by Microscale.

                I've been around a long time & still build models a lot. Some things you only see once.

                                         Gene

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my original post. I've learned more about these Haven-class models than I knew I needed to know! I decided to order the S.S. Hope kit from the seller in North Vancouver, but there's a hitch: the listing says he may not ship to Canada, even though he lives only a long stone's throw away from me. OK, a VERY LONG stone's throw, across Coal Harbour, but if just one smallish apartment building weren't in the way, I could see North Vancouver from my living room. When I tried to buy it anyway, eBay.com informed me that it wasn't available to me because I live in Canada! I've written him to express my interest. 

Until I joined FineScale.com, I wasn't aware so many iterations exist of many models. I wasn't aware of S.S. Hope at all. The decals shouldn't pose a problem; I've been designing and printing my own, and as GMorrison wrote, the crosses and green stripes could be painted. 

I'll let you know what happens regarding the eBay Hope kit in question.

Bob

Because the 1960 kit will probably have bad decals.

Repose will only need the name and hull number, you can mask and paint the crosses stripes etc.

Scalemates lists this as 1:471

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/revell-h320-169-haven--178933

And they list the kit (as SS Hope) as in production as recently as 2008, so I'd not spend extra for the box art (which often drives the collector's market).

The USS Haven kits appear to all have crosses and green stripes, which are essential parts of USN hospital ship markings

They have a set of the 1968 instructions:  https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/3/1/4/111314-11-instructions.pdf

Looks like the Hope kits had only crosses for decals.  You get a helo, too.

I have no idea why the instructions say to paint the decks half Yellow sand and half rust red.  I'd be inclined to NATO Medium Green or Deck Gray.

I also have no idea why what look to be LCVP on the fore hatch have what appear to be bench seats in them, either.

You might want to look at this, it's in Vancouver:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/REVELL-1-471th-SCALE-HOSPITAL-SHIP-SS-HOPE-85-0007/193294859821?epid=16016798376&hash=item2d01457e2d:g:UO8AAOSwe9Vb~7Ft

IF it fits your need (and it sounds like it), the time is right (for you), the thing is nibbling away in your mind to "build me, build me". Then whats stopping you? Yes, you can wait for the "get a better price" in some indetermanit time in the future. But do you want to?, if not, go get it.  Besides if you find another model of the ship and it less expencive you can get that one too. Then you can have fun rebuilding it into a better version ----Fun Awaits. 

ddp59

Nino, the Haven class hospital ship model is actually 1/482.484 scale not around 1/470 scale.

 

 1/482!   Even better!   Love that scale range. Thanks for the update.

   My new rant:  Remove Revells plastic similated "railings"!

      Nino

Revell:  Hope, Haven, and Repose.  All good.

Nino, the Haven class hospital ship model is actually 1/482.484 scale not around 1/470 scale.

http://www.modelerjoe.net/shipmodellist.html#RevellHaven

Lindbergs 1/520 Neches tanker can still be gotten as USS Kennebec 1/501.4 scale from Lindberg\Round2models

BUY IT! 

(If too expensive, I bet you'll find a better price in the near future. keep watching.)

  It is around a 1/470 scale.  A whole bunch of 1/440 thru 1/520 scale model ships are still out there and could look great together.  

I love the 1/500ish scale.  Not too big to display and not too small so details are easy to add.

A few ideas for the future:

  NS Savannah  (some say 1/445, so close.)

  Revell Yorktown class CV's ( 1/487)

  Revell Pittsburg/ Helena CA  ( 1/480)

  Revell Canberra/ Boston CG (1/480)

  And then you have the 1/500 stuff by Nichimo, Monogram, Mastercraft, Frog,  and Renwal.

The old Revell 1/509 Longbeach  and Lindbergs 1/520 Neches tanker round out the similar or "almost close" in-scale stuff.

Sorry that these kits are OOP except for the Atlantis re-pop of Revell and a Renwal kit. 

Enjoy your Hospital Ship.  Personal attachments make for the best choices in models.

     Nino

Bob, ouch on the $65 not including shipping as i think you can find a better deal then that & i live east of you in Ontario. right now i have 2 those Haven class kits being built but not out of the box. the reason i say that is the decks make the hull wider then the lower half of the hull. the hull bottom is correct shape except for missing keel bulges but the hull sides are supposed to be vertical not sloped away from the decks which means all new decks. cutoff all the railings as should not see them at that scale.

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=165137

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=165105

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=183327

Agreed, yes you should go for it.

However, before going for a high-priced item on eBay, you should be open-minded about substitutes.  Since 1954, that same set of moldings has been released by Revell as as USS Haven (in 1954), USS Repose (1960), SS HOPE (1961 and USS Repose (1967) - all the same set of moldings.  (The HOPE kit was a civilian charter, so it doesn't have the decals for the green stripes and red crosses.)  Also, you may find it packaged by AHM or possibly Advent in the US, or Lodella (Mexican Revell) or Brazillian Revell, the proper name of which escapes me.  In my experience, the plastic of the earlier release was more brittle, but your mileage may vary.  I hate to screw up somebody's sale, but $65 seems exhorbitant for that kit.  I'd be happy to pull one out of the stash and give it to you for a more reasonable price, but as you say, postage from the US can be a bear.

Build-wise, just besides the kit's age, the biggest considerations are that it has the molded-in railings and flat bottom that were characteristic of 1950's Revell ships.

You can see examples of a really nice build at http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/service/other/haven-480-dc/dc-index.html and another at http://www.modelships.info/debrisfield/gallery/atle-haven.html.

Even if you don't get carried away with surgery (no pun intended, but I like it) and photo-etch, you can fix the model up nicely with a paintbrush.  Just look at the various bumps and lumps on the decks and paint them the way they should appear, rather than vanilla like the instructions.

This is a great opportunity to build a model of something that has real meaning for you.  Guess I need to get hot and start building kits of the ships I served on, to take my own medicine.  Enjoy!

Best regards
Rick

There’s a little bit about the Haven/Repose on this compilation of older ship kit reviews. It is definitely going to be clunky by today’s standards; the kit is over 60 years old now! Given your personal connection, you should get it and build it anyway.

http://www.modelerjoe.net/shipmodellist.html#RevellHaven

GMorrison

Oh, considering your personal connection, you should buy it.

Short answer, I'm with Bill.

Longer answer if you're interested:

With your history, I don't see how you can not buy this kit, even it were the worst kit ever produced.

Personally, when I stumble across a kit that brings back a memory from builiding as a kid, my credit card tends to come out long before my brain engages. I've not regretted a purchase yet.

I also don't think it matters if you were to build it or not. Display it in a the box somewhere you can see it often. Or build it if you want. The 'memory' kits I've bought bring me joy everytime I look at them sitting in my small stash. Might build them someday, might not.

And thank you for serving.

Oh, considering your personal connection, you should buy it. I remember some years back our member Fred (Onyxman) backdated one into it's original C4 cargo ship.

It has a flat bottom and it's box scale, somewhere around 1/480.

Gold Medal Models makes a great PE set for a group of those kits, including things you'd need specific to the Haven/ Repose/ Hope kits.

http://www.goldmm.com/ships/gms500-5.htm

I can't comment on the price, but these things aren't easy to find. I hope the postage is reasonable.

I'd be prepared for issues with the decals, but the kit on eBay looks clean, sealed and well taken care of.

I've never built this one, but I have built the other models from that group like the T2 tanker, the Hawaiian Pilot and the Montrose APA. They are nice, detailed, old fashiony kits.

Using PE on these will involve cutting off a lot of plastic railing. I am just finishing my 1955 vintage Midway. 

Bill