Should I, shouldn't I? —Advice needed for purchase of very old Revell model

Hi;

 Go to the tool thread and read the post I am going to do right after this one to you.

Bob, do you have a Princess Auto &\or Canadian Tire close to you?

ddp59

Bob, do you have a Princess Auto &\or Canadian Tire close to you?

keep on eye out for sales as got mine for $18.

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-digital-caliper-6-in-0586800p.html#srp

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/6-in-metal-vernier-caliper/A-p2940003e

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/6-in-sae-metric-composite-digital-caliper/A-p8609240e

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/6-in-metal-digital-caliper/A-p8609265e

ddp59

keep on eye out for sales as got mine for $18.

$18! I checked my local (Vancouver) Canadian Tire store, and found the calipers, and discovered that they would cost me $44.99. I don't need them that much! But I would like to have a good pair, so I'll add it my list of modelling toys.

Thanks for your help.

Bob

I was ready to spray the first coat of white paint on the hull my SS Hope/USS Repose model hospital ship when I got to wondering about some “structures” that are evident in nearly all properly exposed photographs of Repose, but aren’t moulded into the model’s hull. They are the raised, vertical strips that extend from the main deck to the waterline; I’ve circled them in red in this image:

At first, I thought they were welds where the hull plates were attached to each other, but they’re too big for that. They seem to be rounded, and perhaps 8 inches (20.3 centimetres) wide. I’m thinking that they may be downspouts from scuppers. Does anyone know?

Whatever they are, I'm thinking about adding them, using half-round styrene rods about 1 or 1.5 mm in diameter. However, having already painted the hull I can't imagine attaching the rods without damaging the paint. In the interests of mental health, perhaps I should ignore them! But I would like to learn your thoughts.

Bob

Bobstamp

I’m thinking that they may be downspouts from scuppers. Does anyone know?

Overboard discharges for things that use seawater for cooling or rinsing, where you want the water to not spray around.

Scuppers just drain over the deck edge.

But, given the various medical facilities inboard, routing the drains over the outside makes sense.

@CapnMac82: Hmmm....  Thanks for this information. It seems I wasn't wrong, not completely. Even though I joined the U.S. Navy in 1962, I served mostly on land, and dry-land sailors don't learn a lot about ships. However, it's amazing how much youi can learn by building ship models, even when they aren't well detailed. Still can't decide whether to try to add those downspouts.

Bob 

I would guess those deck drains are about 6" diameter, and true round. No good reason to make them half round.

That's 0.01 inches, or 0.025 mm at your scale. Nice detail. A nylon paint brush bristle would work well.

Bill

Well, that didn't go well!

I attempted to install "deck drains" on the hull of the "Repose" hospital ship model I'm building, using a Revell model of SS Hope. If you're just now joining this conversation, you may not realize that SS Hope and USS Repose were both Haven-class hospital ships, and that the models were made using the same molds. And now, back to deck drains.

I only completed one drain. I spent at least half an hour on it, attaching a bristle from a broom with tiny drops of crazy glue and then painting it with primer. But it looked so bad, and adding another 15 or so drains seemed so difficult, that I decided to turn back the clock. 

Removing the one drain pipe was easy. It popped off with only slight pressure — the bristles must be made of polypropylene, which for some reason doesn't work with crazy glue. But the glue stuck like crazy to the hull, requiring another hour's of sanding, polishing, and repainting the upper hull with primer. I don't think it will ever look as it did before I tried installing the pipe. 

At this point, I'm planning to complete the build without the drain pipes, even though though the model would look a lot better, I think, if it had the pipes in place. They're obvious in several photos of Repose that I've found on-line. Here's a good example:

Any suggestions on how the drain pipes might still be installed would be welcome, but it might be worth giving up completely on them. Their absence won't be the only problem with this model's detail. I think the model will look pretty good when it's finished, but it will always have toy-like qualities. I do wonder why the original molds didn't include the drain pipes. 

You may recall that I ordered a second model of SS Hope from the same dealer that I bought the first one from, but that order went badly south: despite the eBay listing, it turned out that he didn't have a second model. Yesterday, I found an unopened kit of USS Haven being offered at a low price by a company in Seattle; perhaps the mistakes I am making with the Hope model can be avoided on a second attempt.

Bob

GMorrison

Have you made any accomodations for a base? Now is the time. You've already glued the hull and topsides together so it will be a little trick, but here is what I suggest.

Plan on two pedestals. For longer ships i.e. narrower ones, I usually go it 25% from each end (overall length). Beamier ones; 33%.

check topside once you have your intended dimensions and find a symetrical set of numbers fore/aft that land both points inside a deckhouse.

Once you have that, mark the centerline on the bottom, measure and drill a pair of holes. Flip her rightside up and drill a pair of holes as large as you can get away with, say 1/2".

Grap a pair of long skinny bolts, say 10-24 x 3". and two pairs on nuts. Thread one on each bolt at least 1/2".

Stick each up through the holes in the hull and get anothe nut threaded on each tightish.

Put epoxy on the end of a skewer and butter it around the outside of each nut.

When dry, unscrew the bolts.

I usually put the ship on a temporay base at this point, that's another discussion.

Bill

@ Bill: Thank you for your tips about creating a base for my model of SS Hope as USS Repose. They worked like a charm, although I wasn’t able to find the type of base that I would like to have — the few that are available on line don’t have the right length and width, are exorbitantly expensive, and shipping would double their price. But the base I now have will serve me well as I work on the model.

The following photos show the steps I took to attach the base, using 1½ X ¼” bolts and nuts and J-B Weld epoxy to secure the nuts. 

Holes drilled in bottom of hull:

Bolts and nuts attached to hull:

Nuts glued to hull:

Temporary base attached to hull:

Bob

That's awesome, Bob.

As for the deck drains, at least you gave it a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?

Coming along very nicely. The bottom paint is a nice color, well done.

Bill

GMorrison

As for the deck drains, at least you gave it a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?

Bill

Bob, 6" / 480 = .0125" not .1".

Thanks, ddp59. You're right. I've edited my original post about this topic to reflect reality. And now it's time to leave math to people who know what they're doing and go back to modelling. I thought I had made a typo, but that's not the case. I just had a lot of trouble converting inches to decimals and remembering to double check what I had typed. Yeesh! I think I'll go and sniff some super glue….

Bob 

if you don't mind slightly over scale then can use .5mm rod for drains.

https://evergreenscalemodels.com/collections/14-polystyrene-rod/products/218-020-5mm-od-rod

6" x 25.4mm / 480 = .3175mm

https://evergreenscalemodels.com/collections/14-polystyrene-rod

One possibility: Simply (or perhaps "simply") sand the .02" rod down by 25%. It sholdn't be too hard to do that so that the diameter stays relatively even.

I am unsure, however, how I would attach the deck drains. I tried using super glue on my experiment with broom bristles, which were about the right size, but it was very difficult to position them correctly and apply the super glue. Any suggestions?

An idea did just occur to me: perhaps I could tape the deck drain pieces to the hull so they would stay in place while I lifted them slightly to apply tiny drops of super glue.

Bob 

mark the hull both above & below the drains locations, cut drains to length, flatten 1 side of drain by scrapping with a bade, run a bead of testors glue or similar but not ca as can be knocked off the hull & glue into previously marked locations. let cure then remove excess glue using sharp chisel blade.

I must start with the caveat that I'm not (yet) a boat builder, but what you're looking to do sounds like it would be quite easy to do by:

• Scribe lines with a reasonably thick blade where you want the drain pipes installed, to a reasonable depth that could hide some of the rod (I'm thinking something like O>), thereby eliminating need to sand
• Use the scribed lines to guide installation and hold glue

If you could use a solvent glue, it would hold quickly, but man, that's a risk with the painted hull.  You might be able to use microdots of CA in the groove you scribe, then press the rod into it.

Anyway, I'm offering ideas that I may not be qualified to do, so...  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ddp59

mark the hull both above & below the drains locations, cut drains to length, flatten 1 side of drain by scrapping with a bade, run a bead of testors glue or similar but not ca as can be knocked off the hull & glue into previously marked locations. let cure then remove excess glue using sharp chisel blade.

Bob

is the white part of the hull painted or unpainted? what are you using to remove excess CA or solvent glue or how are you trying to remove it?

ddp59

is the white part of the hull painted or unpainted? what are you using to remove excess CA or solvent glue or how are you trying to remove it?

After my stillborn experience trying to use bristles from a broom, and re-sanding/re-painting the hull, I'm going to complete it without the deck drains. But I've ordered another SS Hope kit in hopes (!) of installing deck drains on it. 

To remove excess CA or solvent glue, I've used X-Acto style chisel blades, files, sandpaper, sanding sticks, and Novus scratch remover and Plastic Clean & Shine. I've yet to bring plastic back to its original smoothness.

Bob    

First, a thank you to the several FineScale members who have offered suggestions about the best way to install deck drains on my conversion of a Haven-class S.S. Hope hospital ship model to a model of U.S.S. Repose. 

Based on those suggestions, I bought a recommended scriber, some thick 3M tape to use as a guide for scribing, and some .1mm round styrene rods. As the attached photo shows, your ideas worked (and the drains are much easier to install than I ever dreamed they would be):

Now the bad news: I have given up on the first attempt because of multiple problems. The model, based on Revell's release in the mid-1950s of a U.S.S. Haven model and using the same moulds, is just godawful. Nearly all parts have huge amounts of flash and sinkholes on them, and few of them fit well. Both halves of the hull and the upper deck were badly warped, although I was able to glue them together, barely, and the hull still needs some putty. The main deck had to be trimmed a great deal to get it seated properly in the hull.

What really got to me, however, was painting the forcastle, poop deck, and helicopter pad dark grey, the wooden main and first decks tan, and white for the deck houses and equipment. I used brushes and Tamiya acrylics — I don't have an airbrush, which I think would be pretty much useless for the decks anyway. By the time I learned about acrylic retarders, I had made a streaky mess of the decks and the deck houses. I also tried to do some "weathering" on the ship's solid railings to make seem more like real railings, but they just looked dirty, so I repainted them white.

Overall, the model is poorly designed, poorly moulded, and grossly inaccurate in scale and detail. For example, the Seahorse helicopter that comes with the kit is at least a third smaller than it should be, and the deck houses, masts, derrecks, and lifeboats seem to have little similarity to those of the actual ships. Still, because I was a patient on Repose in 1966, I want a model of Repose, so I've started working on another one, this time of U.S.S. Haven, which is identical to the Hope model except for instructions and decals.

I'm currently installing the deck drains, and plan to spraypaint the decks and other superstructure components white, and then add the grey decking, armed with acrylic paint, retarder, and a couple of new, small, angle-tipped brushes. Hopefully things will go more smoothly this time, especially if it the hull doesn't fall off a shelf and break like it did on Sunday! Thank god for modern glues and tools.

There is just no way that my model Repose will look like the real Repose. But at least for me, it will be a version of what the real ship looked like, and that's all that's necessary. I'm building it for me, nor for a judge. The other models I've completed since I reentered the hobby in mid-2019 — an HP.52  Hampden bomber, a UH-34 Seahorse helicopter, and a T-34 Mentor trainer — are similarly inaccurate, but they mean a lot to me because they represent significant parts of my personal history.  

Bob 

One of the things about tiny things is that suggestions of shape are often more important than the exact geometry.

So, perhaps 0.0125 square strip might be a better than trying to adapt a round to suit.

It a person is 12" away from the 1/480 model, they are 480 scale feet away--perciving a true round at such a distance (160 yards) will be a test of human eyesight.

Using styrene would warrant a certain amount of sanding, which will "break" the edges to help the round-ness.

Alternately, the other place to look would be in a soft round item like solder, which to steal an idea from above, could be pressed into a scribed line to hold it down a bit.  Using accelerator and a thin CA would be the approach I'd use (as in a spritz of accelerator on the hull, then hold the solder in place and then dribble CA on--which ought to bind instanly).

As you have discovered one of the downsides to Medium & gel CA is that it dries far harder than styrene.  So, the thin may be your answer.

Your Mileage May Vary

Bob, i would cut all the railings off as overscaled besides being solid on the model when they are not on the real ship. do it after gluing the decks in place or try it on your 1st model to see how to do it & if you like the look. i've done that to my 2 versions of that class but after i made & glued in place new decks.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/12/091216143.jpg

CapnMac82

One of the things about tiny things is that suggestions of shape are often more important than the exact geometry. So, perhaps 0.0125 square strip might be a better than trying to adapt a round to suit. It a person is 12" away from the 1/480 model, they are 480 scale feet away--perciving a true round at such a distance (160 yards) will be a test of human eyesight.

Thanks for your thoughts, CapnMac82. I agree — the suggestion of shape is all that's really needed on such small scales. The deck drains as seen on some photos of the real USS Repose seem to be half-round, so "sinking" the 0.1 mm rods into scored lines makes them appear sort of, kind of half-round. And the scored lines make it really easy to put the rods in place and at right angles to the waterline (assuming that I get the 3M tape strips at a 90-degree angle to the waterline!). In any event, I've got my 0.1mm round rods, and my scriber, and my 3M tape, so I might as well use them. 

I like your analogy of "scale looking" at scale models. I've told my wife that my 1/72 and 1/48 models look best when viewed from about six feet away. And the deck drains I have installed so far look fine, at least in my opinion.   

Some of my experiences in professional photography apply. I spent the last decade of my working life as the owner/photographer of my own portrait studio. Once I took a photo of a wedding party in a local park, but it had a problem: in the foreground were hundreds of shiny pebbles, each one reflecting a bright spot of sunlight. That was in the days before computer programs like Photoshop, so I had to do all of my retouching with brushes and dyes. Before the retouching, all of those bright specs took the viewer's attention away from the wedding party. But after I carefully applied a spec of dark dye to each pebble, the wedding party kind of leapt into prominence.

The same thing happens with models, it seems, but the "retouching" (aside from repairing small painting errors, removing globs of putty and glue, etc.) consists of adding small details, including weathering, that are scarecly noticeable in isolation but add a great deal to realism, so much so that without those details you have a model that looks very much like a model instead of the real thing.

Bob

I’ve hit what I guess is an emotional snag with my build of the Haven-class U.S.S. Repose hospital ship.

I’ve given up on my first attempt, in which I used a Revell model of S.S. Hope; Hope originally was another Haven-class ship, U.S.S. Consolation, which was for all intents and purposes identical to Haven and Repose. I managed to make a mess painting the decks and superstructure; I used Tamiya acrylics to paint the decks, and ended up with uneven, streaky grey and tan paint where it should be white, and white paint where it should be grey or tan. And then I managed to damage the deep-red and white paint on the hull when I tried to install scratch-built deck drains. 

Now, having started my second attempt, using a Revell Haven kit, I have realized that these Revell kits (U.S.S. Haven, U.S.S. Repose, and S.S. Hope), all made from the same 1950s molds, are wildly out of scale. Their beam seems too narrow by several scale feet, and their forecastle deck is longer and the poop deck shorter than those of the real ships. Here are comparison photos of Repose and the hull of the Revell version of U.S.S. Haven (the yellow masking tape is there to protect the ship’s railings:

I’ve considered kitbashing the model, which would mean removing the railings, moving the “rail cutout,” deck houses and deck furniture forward, increasing the beam, and using photoetch railings, but taking on those tasks really is impossible, at least for my skill level and the time I have left on this benighted planet. So what to do?

The other models I’ve completed — a helicopter and two airplanes — are sufficiently realistic to satisfy me, but I’m not sure that my “Repose” will ever truly please me. But to stop the effort means the waste of a considerable amount of money, especially since a third Haven model is on its way to me — that one I wanted to paint pure white from stem to stern and keel to topmast, with the only colour being the red crosses. And I’ve even ordered expensive custom-made bases for both of the models.

I would certainly learn a lot if I decide to finish both models, and they will be attractive, but I think I will have to suspend my disbelief and accept that the models will sorta look like Repose, and help me to remember my very memorable time as one of her wounded patients following Operation Utah in South Vietnam in 1966. 

Your thoughts will be welcomed!

Bob

Bob,

When I was around 12, 13, or 14 (1955, '56, or '57) I bult (horribly and with no finesse, patience, or skill) a hospital ship and a Viking ship. I can't remember the manufacturer and I can tell you they did NOT deserve a place on the mantel in our living room.

My great aunt, the lady who brought my brother and I up (long, boring story) was generous enough to allow my cruddy models to sit on the mantel for a while.

I found this image several years ago and did post it to some thread (can't remember which) on this site. Here it is again simply so you can laugh and relax about building your model ships .... it's all supposed to be fun!

The guy in the picture is me and you can see the models (barely) on either side of the mantel.

model is 32.85cm x 4.5cm x 1.54cm at 1/482.484. real ship is 520' x 71'6" x 24'6". the model is actually to wide at the main deck level not to narrow. what do you mean by "the time I have left on this benighted planet." cancer?

@1943 Mike, who said:

“When I was around 12, 13, or 14 (1955, '56, or '57) I built (horribly and with no finesse, patience, or skill) a hospital ship and a Viking ship.”

Your hospital ship had to be the Revell Haven. As far as I know, that’s the only scale model of the Haven that’s ever been produced. Subsequent models of USS Repose and SS Hope were both made using the original Haven moulds. I built my first Haven at about the same time you built yours. And I bet that my lack of finesse, patience, or skill exceeded yours! 

One of the mysteries of my life is the disappearance of all of the models, in addition to Haven, that I built in my teens. Every time I blink (well, not every time) I remember a model I built in my teens — F-84 Thunderjet, F-102 Delta Dagger, F-89 Scorpion, B-25 Mitchell, F6F Hellcat, a PBY, the Canberra guided missile cruiser, HMS Bounty, a Chris-Craft cabin cruiser, a sailing dinghy, and a Lincoln Futura concept car. 

I’m sure that I still had all of those models when I joined the Navy at age 19. I never lived with my parents again, but I don’t recall ever seeing the models again. I suspect my mom tossed them out. Apparently I didn’t care enough to enquire about them. Another mystery: What happened to my dog, Smutsie? I have no idea. 

Bob