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Tumpeter 1/200 Fletchers (Yes, plural)

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  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Tumpeter 1/200 Fletchers (Yes, plural)
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, April 5, 2024 12:55 PM

So, Ben, over at Midwest Model Shop on YT revealed the first test shots:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbJVVfb0ch4

Of Trumpy's new Fletcher.  They are modeling Fletcher, Stevens, and The Sulivans.  So there will be both a round-bridge and a square-bridge version.

USS Stevens caught my attention, too.  She is one of the three Fletchers to have been modified to have the after torpedo lanucher and Mount 53 removed and a cruiser catapault installed instead.

The catapault was removed and the torpedo tubes and gun mount were restored, but, her fantail retained her previous arrangements.

Ben points out a slight uh-oh in the sheer line just aft of amidships, and points out that, with the after deckhous in place, this is a neglicable detail (especially considering the hull uh-ohs of trumpy's 1/200 carriers).  Moulded detail o nthe test shots is pretty good, very much in keeping with Trumpy 1/200 releases. 

This ought to be a great size for a Fletcher.  376 feet at 1/200 is 22.56 inches, or 573mm overall.  Which wil lbe a very handy size.

I have no doubt that Steve (aka ModelMonkey) will be able to get us both oval and slab-sided funnel options along with Bath versus Bethlehem bridge castings. 

For that matter, Ben, through MMS already is offering 3d printed 20mm Orelikons that was very delicat and fine items.

Given their current problems, Pontos may not get PE out, but KA likely will.

If theis does not vanish as vaporware, I think this will be a popular kit (even at trumpy sorts of retail prices).

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Saturday, April 6, 2024 8:36 AM

Now!

       That's what I am talking about! If you had visited me in my office(Yes, I had a Porthole too!) back in the 60's on my Gearing on the Nest,(Five Gearings together) You would've sworn that at least three were different ships. We actually Had two Fletchers that had been Frammed in Yards on the east Coast. Boy! did they look strange. And Both Round Bridges at that!

        There were so many Fletchers done that at any one time they looked like a mob in port. But, as is the Navy's wont they all had different features to notice. Deck Layouts,  gear in different places etc. Thses will certainly add a bit of spice to the mix!

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, April 6, 2024 12:31 PM

From a model company production viewpoint, the Gearings might make a better subject to kit out, what with all the possible options they represent.

Be some overlap with the Fletchers, though, as both went through DDR and DE type designations.

But, there were more FRAM versions of Gearings then near any other.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Saturday, April 6, 2024 3:24 PM

Hello Cap'n!

I'm not really a ship modeller, but I would like to build the MADDOX some day, and I noticed a long time ago, that it's not easy in any scale. From what I understand I would need a SUMNER class unFRAMed ship with post war modifications. And I would like to show that "electronics van" on it. What would be the easiest way to pull it off - shortening a GEARING or switching the gun houses on a FLETCHER? What would you say? And isn't it strange that such a historically importan ship as MADDOX is missing as a model? Thanks for reading and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Saturday, April 6, 2024 3:48 PM

Paweł, why do you think the MADDOX is important as only served in the USN from June 44 til stricken July 2 1972? the SIMS class is a totally different class of destroyer. what scale model do you want to build?

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/731.htm

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Saturday, April 6, 2024 6:28 PM

Thanks a lot for your reply, ddp59!

Sorry I made a mistake, trusting my memory too much - I meant SUMNER instead of SIMS, I already edited it in my original message.

IMO MADDOX is important, because it took part in the Tonkin Gulf incident, and I think this was an important event, listed by many sources as the starting point of the Vietnam War. That's why I would like to have it in my collection and in this case almost any scale would do.

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Saturday, April 6, 2024 7:27 PM

i shortened a1/350 Gearing hull down to a Sumner hull for a member on this site or another site. i have a copy of DD-692 USS Allen M. Sumner Booklet of General Plans 1968 saved on my compter if you need at 64mbs.

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Sunday, April 7, 2024 5:10 AM

Hmmm:

 The Maddox was there in the start of the Gulf of Tonkin thing. So she should be modeled, Good on you Pawel.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Sunday, April 7, 2024 9:58 AM

Hello ddp59!

If you were so kind, I'd appreciate having those plans for later. Please give me your e-mail or mail me at pmroczko(at)pmroczko.nazwa.pl and we can work out a way to transfer such a big file. I'd suggest using a servece called WeTransfer, very handy for such things. Thanks a lot in advance for your help and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Roanoke, Virginia
Posted by BigJim on Sunday, April 7, 2024 10:08 AM

The Floating Drydock has referrence material on the Fletcher Class destroyers. Do any of you have them and could offer a review?

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Sunday, April 7, 2024 10:08 AM

Paweł, there is 15 files for 64mb so will send it in 4 batches to keep it under 20mb per batch.

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Sunday, April 7, 2024 10:54 AM

BigJim, i've got it saved on my computer but have not really gone thru it yet. is 25.5 mb & 343 pages.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, April 7, 2024 12:20 PM

BigJim
The Floating Drydock has referrence material on the Fletcher Class destroyers. Do any of you have them and could offer a review?

I have an ancient set of 1/8" = 1'-0" blueline prints for USS Boyd in her 1953 configuration and they are quite detailed.  They are also almost faded to invisibility.

The CD set of plans is rather highly regarded on the various fora out there.  If now slightly complicated by the ever smaller number of computers with optical disc drives.

Alan Raven's Fletcher Class Destroyers remains a good book to have.  Lester Abbey's Shipcraft 8 - Fletcher Class Destoyers is all about modeling of them, and is a good, if dated reference.

Mark Stille's US Navy Destroyers 1945-88, Fletcher Class to Forrest Sherman Class, is not a bad overview (and could be a good reference point to Pawel's inquiry on Maddox, above).

John C. Reilly's United States Destroyers of World War II remains a bit of a go-to.

As Bill's tagline reads:  "Modeling is just an excuse to buy more books."

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, April 7, 2024 1:16 PM

Pawel
I would like to build the MADDOX some day

Sumners are even less well represented than Gearings in the model world, sadly.

The Gearings were 14 feet longer--right at amidships--than the Sumners, whether that's worth hacking out of a hull is probably down to the scale used.  Deck houses are very similar between the two.

Sumner Hull and Fletcher hull are very similar--same overall lenght at 376.5' but are wider by 18" at the beam (41' vs 39.5'), with the biggest difference being the draft, 15.75' vs 17.5' (largely at the forefoot, the pointy part of the bow).

So, at 1/700, a person could be forgiven for taking a Fletcher and just building to the main deck, and scratching up the super structures.  (At 1/700, the beam difference is 0.026" or 0.65mm)  Most of the gun turrets, the hedgehogs, the triple torpedo tubes and the like like are already available as 1/700 aftermarket.  Even the 60s era radar fit is available.

The various TACAN and related domed antennae would be fussy.  There's only the single stern roller ramp for depth charges.  The dual 3"50 Mk33 gun mount might be fussy, given how prominent it is.  The 1964 photo seems to show a Mk 56 director with its SPG-35 dish.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Monday, April 8, 2024 6:03 PM

Hello Cap'n!

Thanks again for the great info! I just ordered Mr. Stille's book, it was even availalble in Poland. I don't think I will build that model anytime soon, but I'm preparing!

For example I have a paper model of USS Mannert L. Abele (DD-733) - so the objective here would be to convert it from WWII fit to the Vietnam fit, and repaint it from three colour camo to haze grey... And this is a big boy in 1:200.

So let's see! Thanks again and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: North Carolina, USA
Posted by Model Monkey on Tuesday, April 9, 2024 2:43 PM

CapnMac82
I have no doubt that Steve (aka ModelMonkey) will be able to get us both oval and slab-sided funnel options along with Bath versus Bethlehem bridge castings...

Cheers, Capn!

We sure do have some Fletcher goodies available in 1/200 scale right now.  There are some more planned depending on market demand.

No plans as of this writing for FRAM conversions.  The problem being that no two ships were "FRAMed" in exactly the same way so there are just too many variations to produce a single conversion applicable to more than one ship at one time.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Tuesday, April 9, 2024 6:12 PM

Model Monkey
No plans as of this writing for FRAM conversions. The problem being that no two ships were "FRAMed" in exactly the same way so there are just too many variations to produce a single conversion applicable to more than one ship at one time.

That is one cogent observation, and very much one at the ehart of trying to keep a business afloat (no pun intended).

Now, if the trumpy kit becomes popular, I have no doubt that the "maker universe" may wind up with files for various indivudual FRAM ships, as there are a couple of historical note.

Now, that need would be greater if there was a good kit of the Gearing or Sumners in either 350 or 200 scale. 

This is part and parcel of modeling destroyers.  Why are their no decent kits of the RN Tribal Class?  (The "Letter" classes have the issue of only being 5-7 ships per each.)
Why so few examples of the "four piper" (if with the complications of actually being Wickes, Clemson, Caldwell, and "Town" classes).

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Tuesday, April 9, 2024 6:36 PM

Pawel
I don't think I will build that model anytime soon, but I'm preparing!

If a person were desparate keen, Iron Shipwright has a resin kit of USS Henley, which, sadly is both spendy and hard to find.

Now, if tough enough to go for 1/700, there's the Pitroad/Skywave kit of Allen M Sumner.

At least one of those on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285352564157?itmmeta=01HV2JAF1KB2S0M8C5YRARJSD0&hash=item42705695bd:g:jZsAAOSwHWJkm4Pu&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0DqX5HBbNZwl0%2FpP%2BNbdyNI4rFbiBZc%2BbIc7fI0rDvRDD14KC9iis4Zzz4xb4vg9VAN%2F3r%2FbTJZTgIr7nBcUnjORarhk64DtKjaMamFoCXukyCwuMMypVZ83aFQjTzjqBdknFsxdDFrdsvPxM6g9gFKKxdLQnVmNx1QDOgZjdukoJLcshgSaARd8vCqK4jtQKHE%2FdnWigRR%2BmNs4RBRDaZkbQ37MI86OTUfmhf9i%2FRDZrWRdQ1q9biZSHw2F7xe22h6C4Sj7dpOaJainowu5mfA%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_DwqdLYYw

And also the Firestar PE set, also on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/173031337849?epid=1030096680&itmmeta=01HV2J37Y491TFRY5W3HQSAG8K&hash=item284978af79:g:RFkAAOSwZW5aMXwt&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8PPv1ovgWROPXJwfduc%2F3PHDlGOSPUobQ%2BucCOvH4hYWl0ki%2BPJfr31FimEBERvuCGUiReGK2Fl7IbpLZK52fYsIaMyvVd%2FfHwOLGbtD8kB1MFpPJ6rVxviFRyFt76qVQRPVHCp1gUqkmY0dqzLJHjBuEKs1lK3ccL91FXzUWw%2FzEzn9qjM3B5KkKcbrt9l%2BNGubJio8P1xSFzerguyQuZTp1iNSMRLpTxvx9GxrNfJVeK2fPX295k6DU9zJVSVbDj1bLSUOucfn9i1LiRApfKgh2BspfYXBkWe9mN%2BSAIpRZZtBQGyNh04ED3D9yRJ7kg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5j_jNLYYw

That would need finding the correct radar suites, SPS-10, & 42, the Mk 25 for the Mk 37 director, and, of course, all the things for the Mk 33 3"/50 mount at the stern.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Tuesday, April 9, 2024 9:15 PM

What is FRAMing a ship?

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Wednesday, April 10, 2024 2:29 AM

They had this program after WWII to convert this huge amount of WWII ships into something useful for the cold war. FRAM is an abbreviation for Fleet Rehabilitation and Modernisation. For example the Fletchers, Sumners and Gearings were modified to be DASH capable (Drone Anti Submarine Helicopter), so they got a helopad and jet fuel tanks, which later proved very useful for hosting SAR helicopters off the coast of Vietnam, and such a conversion also dramatically changed the appearance of a ship. Interestingly the SS (submarines) were also FRAMed.

I hope this helps and I look forward to the experts here to elaborate on the subject...

Have a nice day!

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, April 10, 2024 2:27 PM

Another tell is the replacement of single main mast with a tripod mast to provide stable platform for electronics.

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Wednesday, April 10, 2024 2:39 PM

Hi Pawel!

    What's funny about what you just said.The U.S.S.Brinkley Bass, U.S.S. Ozbourn and another were FRAMMED in Bremerton Wa. Sent to San Diego for Lamps helos. Ya know it's funny there NEVER any ready to come aboard so-Wasted trip. A Lamps helo never rested it's Gear on either ships Helo Deck!

    The Hangar did become a great place for "Ship's Movies and storage of goodies coming home from many foreign Ports. You know we actually go five Honda cars and sixteen Motorcycles(Honda of course) and stereos etc. in there.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, April 11, 2024 6:11 PM

I don't think I've ever seen a Fletcher in the flesh. There was a USS Morrison DD-560.

Ok, now for a trivia question: how many Fletchers were at the Battle of the Coral Sea (at a minimum)?

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Thursday, April 11, 2024 7:41 PM
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, April 12, 2024 4:02 PM

GMorrison
I don't think I've ever seen a Fletcher in the flesh

Best one to visit--at least for my 2¢--is USS Kidd, in Red Stick.  She's in 1945 anti-kamikaze fit, with a pole mast, five turrets, and Meas 22 paint scheme.

Cassin Young is a free tour (it sits opposite of Constitution in Boston harbor), but you only get to see the main deck.  She's interesting for being one of the very few "reactivated" Fletchers retaining all five turrets.  She was given a tripod mast, but retained "bedspring" air search radar.

The Sullivans in Albany, NY is an interesting trip, if a bit overshadwed by having Little Rock alongside (only preserved Light Cruiser, anywhere).  She's generally in her late 60s, four-turret fit.  Her 3"/50 Mk 33s may be in better shape than the four on Little Rock.   Maybe.

Your Mileagae May Vary

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Friday, April 12, 2024 6:47 PM

CapnMac82

 

 
GMorrison
I don't think I've ever seen a Fletcher in the flesh

 

Best one to visit--at least for my 2¢--is USS Kidd, in Red Stick.  She's in 1945 anti-kamikaze fit, with a pole mast, five turrets, and Meas 22 paint scheme.

Agree about the Kidd.  Great tour. Stopped in one trip back from Nawalins.   Plan for the trip, she's going into drydock sometime in the future.  Getting her loose of the bollards which hold her in place will be an interesting evolution.  

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, April 13, 2024 12:25 PM

EdGrune
Getting her loose of the bollards which hold her in place will be an interesting evolution.

Especially given the unique way she's on display.

She's on blocks alongside the Mississippi River.  As the river ebbs through the summer and into winter, she goes "dry."  Come the Spring flows of the river, she goes "wet."

It's my understanding they allowed for floods along the river in the mooring/mounting.

So, the tricky part abotu getting her to a dry dock would be in having to wait for full river flow, to float her off her keel blocks.  Yet not have this being under unpredictable water conditions.  I imagine they'd want for more than one River Pilot for the tugs.  But, it would only be a short tow down to the yards on NOLA.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, April 13, 2024 1:01 PM

Thanks for the info. I do get down there now and then. Great WW2 Museum.

Answer: At least one Fletcher at the Battle of the Coral Sea. Frank Jack Fletcher, Commander of TF17.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, April 14, 2024 12:21 PM

GMorrison
Thanks for the info. I do get down there now and then. Great WW2 Museum.

Not a problem--it's what on-line fora are for, after all.

Spring is my favorite time for Red Stick, especially in under-insulated metal ships :-)

My other springtime go-to is the Museum of the Pacific War over in Fredricksburg, TX, Nimitz's birthplace.  Fredricksburg is in the Hill Country, and the 3000 or so foot altitude does help moderate temperatures.

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Sunday, April 14, 2024 12:24 PM

Oho!

     Ya gotta catch the Pacific War museum.They have on display one of the last two Higgins boats that ever served in that theater.

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