Tumpeter 1/200 Fletchers (Yes, plural)

Now!

       That's what I am talking about! If you had visited me in my office(Yes, I had a Porthole too!) back in the 60's on my Gearing on the Nest,(Five Gearings together) You would've sworn that at least three were different ships. We actually Had two Fletchers that had been Frammed in Yards on the east Coast. Boy! did they look strange. And Both Round Bridges at that!

        There were so many Fletchers done that at any one time they looked like a mob in port. But, as is the Navy's wont they all had different features to notice. Deck Layouts,  gear in different places etc. Thses will certainly add a bit of spice to the mix!

From a model company production viewpoint, the Gearings might make a better subject to kit out, what with all the possible options they represent.

Be some overlap with the Fletchers, though, as both went through DDR and DE type designations.

But, there were more FRAM versions of Gearings then near any other.

Hello Cap'n!

I'm not really a ship modeller, but I would like to build the MADDOX some day, and I noticed a long time ago, that it's not easy in any scale. From what I understand I would need a SUMNER class unFRAMed ship with post war modifications. And I would like to show that "electronics van" on it. What would be the easiest way to pull it off - shortening a GEARING or switching the gun houses on a FLETCHER? What would you say? And isn't it strange that such a historically importan ship as MADDOX is missing as a model? Thanks for reading and have a nice day

Paweł

Paweł, why do you think the MADDOX is important as only served in the USN from June 44 til stricken July 2 1972? the SIMS class is a totally different class of destroyer. what scale model do you want to build?

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/731.htm

Thanks a lot for your reply, ddp59!

Sorry I made a mistake, trusting my memory too much - I meant SUMNER instead of SIMS, I already edited it in my original message.

IMO MADDOX is important, because it took part in the Tonkin Gulf incident, and I think this was an important event, listed by many sources as the starting point of the Vietnam War. That's why I would like to have it in my collection and in this case almost any scale would do.

i shortened a1/350 Gearing hull down to a Sumner hull for a member on this site or another site. i have a copy of DD-692 USS Allen M. Sumner Booklet of General Plans 1968 saved on my compter if you need at 64mbs.

Hmmm:

 The Maddox was there in the start of the Gulf of Tonkin thing. So she should be modeled, Good on you Pawel.

Hello ddp59!

If you were so kind, I'd appreciate having those plans for later. Please give me your e-mail or mail me at pmroczko(at)pmroczko.nazwa.pl and we can work out a way to transfer such a big file. I'd suggest using a servece called WeTransfer, very handy for such things. Thanks a lot in advance for your help and have a nice day

Paweł

The Floating Drydock has referrence material on the Fletcher Class destroyers. Do any of you have them and could offer a review?

Paweł, there is 15 files for 64mb so will send it in 4 batches to keep it under 20mb per batch.

BigJim, i've got it saved on my computer but have not really gone thru it yet. is 25.5 mb & 343 pages.

BigJim

The Floating Drydock has referrence material on the Fletcher Class destroyers. Do any of you have them and could offer a review?

I have an ancient set of 1/8" = 1'-0" blueline prints for USS Boyd in her 1953 configuration and they are quite detailed.  They are also almost faded to invisibility.

The CD set of plans is rather highly regarded on the various fora out there.  If now slightly complicated by the ever smaller number of computers with optical disc drives.

Alan Raven's Fletcher Class Destroyers remains a good book to have.  Lester Abbey's Shipcraft 8 - Fletcher Class Destoyers is all about modeling of them, and is a good, if dated reference.

Mark Stille's US Navy Destroyers 1945-88, Fletcher Class to Forrest Sherman Class, is not a bad overview (and could be a good reference point to Pawel's inquiry on Maddox, above).

John C. Reilly's United States Destroyers of World War II remains a bit of a go-to.

As Bill's tagline reads:  "Modeling is just an excuse to buy more books."

Pawel

I would like to build the MADDOX some day

Sumners are even less well represented than Gearings in the model world, sadly.

The Gearings were 14 feet longer--right at amidships--than the Sumners, whether that's worth hacking out of a hull is probably down to the scale used.  Deck houses are very similar between the two.

Sumner Hull and Fletcher hull are very similar--same overall lenght at 376.5' but are wider by 18" at the beam (41' vs 39.5'), with the biggest difference being the draft, 15.75' vs 17.5' (largely at the forefoot, the pointy part of the bow).

So, at 1/700, a person could be forgiven for taking a Fletcher and just building to the main deck, and scratching up the super structures.  (At 1/700, the beam difference is 0.026" or 0.65mm)  Most of the gun turrets, the hedgehogs, the triple torpedo tubes and the like like are already available as 1/700 aftermarket.  Even the 60s era radar fit is available.

The various TACAN and related domed antennae would be fussy.  There's only the single stern roller ramp for depth charges.  The dual 3"50 Mk33 gun mount might be fussy, given how prominent it is.  The 1964 photo seems to show a Mk 56 director with its SPG-35 dish.

Hello Cap'n!

Thanks again for the great info! I just ordered Mr. Stille's book, it was even availalble in Poland. I don't think I will build that model anytime soon, but I'm preparing!

For example I have a paper model of USS Mannert L. Abele (DD-733) - so the objective here would be to convert it from WWII fit to the Vietnam fit, and repaint it from three colour camo to haze grey... And this is a big boy in 1:200.

So let's see! Thanks again and have a nice day

Paweł

CapnMac82

I have no doubt that Steve (aka ModelMonkey) will be able to get us both oval and slab-sided funnel options along with Bath versus Bethlehem bridge castings...

Cheers, Capn!

We sure do have some Fletcher goodies available in 1/200 scale right now.  There are some more planned depending on market demand.

No plans as of this writing for FRAM conversions.  The problem being that no two ships were "FRAMed" in exactly the same way so there are just too many variations to produce a single conversion applicable to more than one ship at one time.

Model Monkey

No plans as of this writing for FRAM conversions. The problem being that no two ships were "FRAMed" in exactly the same way so there are just too many variations to produce a single conversion applicable to more than one ship at one time.

That is one cogent observation, and very much one at the ehart of trying to keep a business afloat (no pun intended).

Now, if the trumpy kit becomes popular, I have no doubt that the "maker universe" may wind up with files for various indivudual FRAM ships, as there are a couple of historical note.

Now, that need would be greater if there was a good kit of the Gearing or Sumners in either 350 or 200 scale. 

This is part and parcel of modeling destroyers.  Why are their no decent kits of the RN Tribal Class?  (The "Letter" classes have the issue of only being 5-7 ships per each.)
Why so few examples of the "four piper" (if with the complications of actually being Wickes, Clemson, Caldwell, and "Town" classes).

Pawel

I don't think I will build that model anytime soon, but I'm preparing!

If a person were desparate keen, Iron Shipwright has a resin kit of USS Henley, which, sadly is both spendy and hard to find.

Now, if tough enough to go for 1/700, there's the Pitroad/Skywave kit of Allen M Sumner.

At least one of those on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285352564157?itmmeta=01HV2JAF1KB2S0M8C5YRARJSD0&hash=item42705695bd:g:jZsAAOSwHWJkm4Pu&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0DqX5HBbNZwl0%2FpP%2BNbdyNI4rFbiBZc%2BbIc7fI0rDvRDD14KC9iis4Zzz4xb4vg9VAN%2F3r%2FbTJZTgIr7nBcUnjORarhk64DtKjaMamFoCXukyCwuMMypVZ83aFQjTzjqBdknFsxdDFrdsvPxM6g9gFKKxdLQnVmNx1QDOgZjdukoJLcshgSaARd8vCqK4jtQKHE%2FdnWigRR%2BmNs4RBRDaZkbQ37MI86OTUfmhf9i%2FRDZrWRdQ1q9biZSHw2F7xe22h6C4Sj7dpOaJainowu5mfA%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_DwqdLYYw

And also the Firestar PE set, also on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/173031337849?epid=1030096680&itmmeta=01HV2J37Y491TFRY5W3HQSAG8K&hash=item284978af79:g:RFkAAOSwZW5aMXwt&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8PPv1ovgWROPXJwfduc%2F3PHDlGOSPUobQ%2BucCOvH4hYWl0ki%2BPJfr31FimEBERvuCGUiReGK2Fl7IbpLZK52fYsIaMyvVd%2FfHwOLGbtD8kB1MFpPJ6rVxviFRyFt76qVQRPVHCp1gUqkmY0dqzLJHjBuEKs1lK3ccL91FXzUWw%2FzEzn9qjM3B5KkKcbrt9l%2BNGubJio8P1xSFzerguyQuZTp1iNSMRLpTxvx9GxrNfJVeK2fPX295k6DU9zJVSVbDj1bLSUOucfn9i1LiRApfKgh2BspfYXBkWe9mN%2BSAIpRZZtBQGyNh04ED3D9yRJ7kg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5j_jNLYYw

That would need finding the correct radar suites, SPS-10, & 42, the Mk 25 for the Mk 37 director, and, of course, all the things for the Mk 33 3"/50 mount at the stern.

What is FRAMing a ship?

They had this program after WWII to convert this huge amount of WWII ships into something useful for the cold war. FRAM is an abbreviation for Fleet Rehabilitation and Modernisation. For example the Fletchers, Sumners and Gearings were modified to be DASH capable (Drone Anti Submarine Helicopter), so they got a helopad and jet fuel tanks, which later proved very useful for hosting SAR helicopters off the coast of Vietnam, and such a conversion also dramatically changed the appearance of a ship. Interestingly the SS (submarines) were also FRAMed.

I hope this helps and I look forward to the experts here to elaborate on the subject...

Have a nice day!

Paweł

Another tell is the replacement of single main mast with a tripod mast to provide stable platform for electronics.

Bill

Hi Pawel!

    What's funny about what you just said.The U.S.S.Brinkley Bass, U.S.S. Ozbourn and another were FRAMMED in Bremerton Wa. Sent to San Diego for Lamps helos. Ya know it's funny there NEVER any ready to come aboard so-Wasted trip. A Lamps helo never rested it's Gear on either ships Helo Deck!

    The Hangar did become a great place for "Ship's Movies and storage of goodies coming home from many foreign Ports. You know we actually go five Honda cars and sixteen Motorcycles(Honda of course) and stereos etc. in there.

I don't think I've ever seen a Fletcher in the flesh. There was a USS Morrison DD-560.

Ok, now for a trivia question: how many Fletchers were at the Battle of the Coral Sea (at a minimum)?

Bill

none. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Coral_Sea_order_of_battle

GMorrison

I don't think I've ever seen a Fletcher in the flesh

Best one to visit--at least for my 2¢--is USS Kidd, in Red Stick.  She's in 1945 anti-kamikaze fit, with a pole mast, five turrets, and Meas 22 paint scheme.

Cassin Young is a free tour (it sits opposite of Constitution in Boston harbor), but you only get to see the main deck.  She's interesting for being one of the very few "reactivated" Fletchers retaining all five turrets.  She was given a tripod mast, but retained "bedspring" air search radar.

The Sullivans in Albany, NY is an interesting trip, if a bit overshadwed by having Little Rock alongside (only preserved Light Cruiser, anywhere).  She's generally in her late 60s, four-turret fit.  Her 3"/50 Mk 33s may be in better shape than the four on Little Rock.   Maybe.

Your Mileagae May Vary

CapnMac82

 

 

GMorrison

I don't think I've ever seen a Fletcher in the flesh

 

 

Best one to visit--at least for my 2¢--is USS Kidd, in Red Stick.  She's in 1945 anti-kamikaze fit, with a pole mast, five turrets, and Meas 22 paint scheme.

Agree about the Kidd.  Great tour. Stopped in one trip back from Nawalins.   Plan for the trip, she's going into drydock sometime in the future.  Getting her loose of the bollards which hold her in place will be an interesting evolution.  

EdGrune

Getting her loose of the bollards which hold her in place will be an interesting evolution.

Especially given the unique way she's on display.

She's on blocks alongside the Mississippi River.  As the river ebbs through the summer and into winter, she goes "dry."  Come the Spring flows of the river, she goes "wet."

It's my understanding they allowed for floods along the river in the mooring/mounting.

So, the tricky part abotu getting her to a dry dock would be in having to wait for full river flow, to float her off her keel blocks.  Yet not have this being under unpredictable water conditions.  I imagine they'd want for more than one River Pilot for the tugs.  But, it would only be a short tow down to the yards on NOLA.

Thanks for the info. I do get down there now and then. Great WW2 Museum.

Answer: At least one Fletcher at the Battle of the Coral Sea. Frank Jack Fletcher, Commander of TF17.

Bill

GMorrison

Thanks for the info. I do get down there now and then. Great WW2 Museum.

Not a problem--it's what on-line fora are for, after all.

Spring is my favorite time for Red Stick, especially in under-insulated metal ships :-)

My other springtime go-to is the Museum of the Pacific War over in Fredricksburg, TX, Nimitz's birthplace.  Fredricksburg is in the Hill Country, and the 3000 or so foot altitude does help moderate temperatures.

Oho!

     Ya gotta catch the Pacific War museum.They have on display one of the last two Higgins boats that ever served in that theater.