Model Kit for German Aircraft Carrier...

QUOTE: Originally posted by adamwehn I've already found and am assembling the 1/720 scale kit from Revell Germany of the Graf Zeppelin, But I was wondering if anyone knows of a larger scale version, 1/35 perhaps.

I do hope you meant 1:350...or that you have a big house.

QUOTE: Originally posted by pemur QUOTE: Originally posted by adamwehn I've already found and am assembling the 1/720 scale kit from Revell Germany of the Graf Zeppelin, But I was wondering if anyone knows of a larger scale version, 1/35 perhaps. I do hope you meant 1:350...or that you have a big house.

Yes I did mean 1:350, I blame this POS Compaq keyboard. And let me tell you, the place I ordered my Graf Zeppelin from sucks as far as shipping is concerned. They wrapped the display box in foam type padding, then dropped it in a thin plastic shipping bag/pouch, and mailed it too me, the upper side of the box was crushed, one of the screws was damaged, but repairable, the hull was cracked in two places. The merchant is netmerchants.com or something like that, they're UK shop/business in County Antrim North Ireland. I'm never ordering from them again, when I mentioned the model was damaged due to their lack of protection they told me it was the royal mail services fault.

On a side note, if there aren't any other kits available at larger scale, when I have a job and the money to do it I plan on custom ordering a larger scale Graf Zeppelin, and may even get an even larger Graf Zeppelin to fit out for Radio Control Operations. For the R/C version I would increase the scale to around 1:175/144 whatever works.

Any kit for the Graf Zepplin is speculative especially since the ship was never completed. After launching and starting to fit out it was discovered that the ship had a serious list problem and would have needed to have some reconstruction/ modification to be brought to service. It also didn't help that the KM high command were mostly dreadnought enthusiast. And with personalities like Goreing and Raeder I'm not surprized that the ship never went into service. Typical third reich fiasco.

QUOTE: Originally posted by seasick Any kit for the Graf Zepplin is speculative especially since the ship was never completed. After launching and starting to fit out it was discovered that the ship had a serious list problem and would have needed to have some reconstruction/ modification to be brought to service. It also didn't help that the KM high command were mostly dreadnought enthusiast. And with personalities like Goreing and Raeder I'm not surprized that the ship never went into service. Typical third reich fiasco.

Raeder was actually an enthusiast about Carriers, he initially called for 4 of them in Plan Z, later reducing them to 2. But it was Goering and Donitz' meddling with his visions of the navy that made him resign his position. Anyways, there's enough data available to work up a model kit of the carrier at the points where she was supposed to be finished that a model can be created, and the ship was actually launched, just never commissioned or used.

i've got some drawings & pictures off the net that includes her hull framing

Graf Zepplin after the beginning of the war ended up being towed east to East Prussia to Koenigsburg to get it out of the range of bombers based in Britian. It was a floating warehouse at that time. All work on large surface units was suspended in December 1939 with the exception of Bismarck, Tirpitz, and Prinz Eugen. Graf Zepplin still had a considerable amount of construction to be done after she was launched. Even if she had been finished and did not have aircraft she would have made a goood surface raider with her 8 150mm guns and large 105mm and 37mm AAW armament. It would have been quite an anomaly though.

QUOTE: Originally posted by seasick Graf Zepplin after the beginning of the war ended up being towed east to East Prussia to Koenigsburg to get it out of the range of bombers based in Britian. It was a floating warehouse at that time. All work on large surface units was suspended in December 1939 with the exception of Bismarck, Tirpitz, and Prinz Eugen. Graf Zepplin still had a considerable amount of construction to be done after she was launched. Even if she had been finished and did not have aircraft she would have made a goood surface raider with her 8 150mm guns and large 105mm and 37mm AAW armament. It would have been quite an anomaly though.

Well all the data I've gathered says that she was scuttled in Stettin before anyone could capture her. Then after the war the Soviets raised her and were planning on repairing her. But in the end they decided it would cost too much or something, so they designated her PO-101, or floating base 101, might have been 01, but whatever. After designating her that they used it as a target ship for soviet pilots to train on how to sink a carrier.

Here's a link to the wikipedia entry for the ship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_aircraft_carrier_Graf_Zeppelin

QUOTE: Originally posted by ddp59 i've got some drawings & pictures off the net that includes her hull framing

Do you still know the URL for the hull frames, I would certainly be interested in making a 1/144 R/C version, and maybe even making moulds for a fiberglass hull.

if you want can email them to you. altogether about 2meg of pictures

I guess nobody knows of a larger scale version of this ship/kit.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ddp59 if you want can email them to you. altogether about 2meg of pictures

I'd like those diagrams you have, my e-mail is adamwehn@yahoo.com.

i am currently building the same 1/720 scale zeppelin..i added the first coat to the flight deck..im working on weathering it and trying to make it perfect.

QUOTE: Originally posted by IronBrigade i am currently building the same 1/720 scale zeppelin..i added the first coat to the flight deck..im working on weathering it and trying to make it perfect.

That's cool, I like to do my ship models as if they were fresh out of construction, no weathering or anything. Makes them more authentic in my mind.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ddp59 if you want can email them to you. altogether about 2meg of pictures

That would be great, I've been thinking of tackling a carrier for while now, but I really didn't feel like doing the 1000th Interprise or the 500th Foch, I wanted something a little more special.

My e-mail is danytalloen@skynet.be

QUOTE: Originally posted by adamwehn QUOTE: Originally posted by IronBrigade i am currently building the same 1/720 scale zeppelin..i added the first coat to the flight deck..im working on weathering it and trying to make it perfect. That's cool, I like to do my ship models as if they were fresh out of construction, no weathering or anything. Makes them more authentic in my mind.

i actually do the same exact thing..if you go to the new members section i have a link there with a bunch of pics of my ships..all of mine look like they rooled right out of drydock..so far for my zeppelin, i coated the flight deck in light tan.i let it dry then dry brushed dark brown over it to make give it an aged looked sort of..i just have to do something with the brush strokes to make them go away and it should be ready to get the detail going..im going to groove out the inlays across the flight deck.

QUOTE: Originally posted by IronBrigade QUOTE: Originally posted by adamwehn QUOTE: Originally posted by IronBrigade i am currently building the same 1/720 scale zeppelin..i added the first coat to the flight deck..im working on weathering it and trying to make it perfect. That's cool, I like to do my ship models as if they were fresh out of construction, no weathering or anything. Makes them more authentic in my mind. i actually do the same exact thing..if you go to the new members section i have a link there with a bunch of pics of my ships..all of mine look like they rooled right out of drydock..so far for my zeppelin, i coated the flight deck in light tan.i let it dry then dry brushed dark brown over it to make give it an aged looked sort of..i just have to do something with the brush strokes to make them go away and it should be ready to get the detail going..im going to groove out the inlays across the flight deck.

Other than painting the flight deck I don't plan to do anything, and I'm just curious what the final color your going to use is. All my data points to the deck being just straight armor/metal.

i painted the deck wood color just to bring out more detail.i am thinking about going over the flight deck with a very watered down gunship grey color..i think the flight deck was made of wood, like our US carriers were..here are some pics of someone else who built this carrier

http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/carrier/grafzeppelin/scale.html

QUOTE: Originally posted by IronBrigade i painted the deck wood color just to bring out more detail.i am thinking about going over the flight deck with a very watered down gunship grey color..i think the flight deck was made of wood, like our US carriers were..here are some pics of someone else who built this carrier http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/carrier/grafzeppelin/scale.html

Of all the details describing the deck I've found it never refers to wood anywhere, just a straight metal deck. Not that I really care, since it never atually got built. And the kit instructions call for it to be the darker gray color, I forget what they call it, but anyways, it's the same color used for the stern and bow plates deck surface.

At this site it says the Flight Deck was 1.9 centimeter armor, converted that's roughly 3/4 inch armor. I've never found any reference to the Graf having a wooden flight deck, and that site you linked me to, only has one image with a wood colored deck, the rest are armor/steel gray. Not trying to rain on your parade or anything, but the Germans got design ideas from the Japanese before beginning construction on the Graf.

http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/2833/kriegsmarine/carrier/grafzeppelin/grafzeppelindata.html

With further research, the Graf Zeppelin was a fleet carrier, and every fleet carrier design I can find refers to armored flight decks, now the escort and auxiliary carriers might have had wooden decks, but All I know is what I've seen and read. Upon further research yes the Essex class carriers had an unarmored wooden deck, but from what I can see/understand they were the exception of carrier design, from what I can see the British, French, and Japanese all used straight steel decks.

The last thing I have to say is that since the ship was never actually completed, and it's your model, do whatever you like with it.

like i said, i wasnt really too sure if the graf deck was metal or wood.for myself, i am leaving the wood paint finish..it looks pretty cool..but i think i will buy another one and do it with a dark gray deck...gives me another reason to buy another kit..muwhahah

Thanks for the drawings, David

QUOTE: Originally posted by IronBrigade like i said, i wasnt really too sure if the graf deck was metal or wood.for myself, i am leaving the wood paint finish..it looks pretty cool..but i think i will buy another one and do it with a dark gray deck...gives me another reason to buy another kit..muwhahah

Okay, well the place I ordered it from no longer lists it on their site, I don't know if they ran out or if Revell Germany stopped making it, but there's lots of reasons to explain it.

DanCooper, i think you can get the hull out of it especially that 1 file i noted to you. debating building her or a modern light carrier 144scale to go with my 6(current) other ships, frigates to a battleship

Hey Guys,

i would like to put the wood/armor deck argument to rest. i'm somewhat of a Graf Zeppelin guru and i've done tons of research on her. (she is my fav. ship) i have a photograph taken durring the summer of 1946 which clearly shows the deck of Graf Zeppelin was planked. this is standard Kriegsmarine practice to lay a teak (non-skid) deck over the armor plating. so if you say the deck was armored you are correct, and if you say it was planked you are also correct.

if anyone has any Graf Zeppelin questions, feel free to email me at joseph100@alltel.net

best regards,

Joe

QUOTE: Originally posted by joe100 Hey Guys, i would like to put the wood/armor deck argument to rest. i'm somewhat of a Graf Zeppelin guru and i've done tons of research on her. (she is my fav. ship) i have a photograph taken durring the summer of 1946 which clearly shows the deck of Graf Zeppelin was planked. this is standard Kriegsmarine practice to lay a teak (non-skid) deck over the armor plating. so if you say the deck was armored you are correct, and if you say it was planked you are also correct. if anyone has any Graf Zeppelin questions, feel free to email me at joseph100@alltel.net best regards, Joe

How do you know the deck was planked? I've seen the same overhead shot and I don't see any evidence that it was planked.

I point to this picture from the deck of the carrier and ask again how do you know it was planked?

http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/2833/kriegsmarine/carrier/grafzeppelin/grafzeppelinn3.gif

Here's the overhead, recon image, I've seen, it does not clearly indicate what the deck was made of.

http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/images/europe/grafz-2.jpg

Furthermore, looking at your Graf Zeppelin website, I don't see how you could use those images to state that you know the deck was Planked.

Whoa there buddy. A simple "hey could you substantiate that with a photograph?" would have worked just as well.

The photograph I’m speaking of is copyrighted by AJ Press and I can't post or link to it on this or any other site. It isn't on my site either because it is unique to AJ Press as far as I know. BUT you can see it in the AJ Press reprint of Siegfried Breyer's book "Graf Zeppelin" on page 91. (ISBN 83-7237-156-3) It shows the partially planked flight deck from elevator #2 looking aft. There is a young woman and a Russian soldier standing in the foreground. Judging by this photo, it appears that about 40% of the decking was completed before the work stoppage. (But if you compare these details to known recon photos this number jumps to 75%) This photo is also unique because it shows Graf Zeppelin’s four screws on the flight deck. They where removed to prevent electrochemical corrosion to the hull and placed in a line on the port side. Very high resolution photograph and it leaves nothing to the imagination.

The AJ Press re-release of the Breyer book just hit the shelves about 2 months ago so it is relatively new. The reason I will not post this picture is because not only is it illegal but AJ Press is very sensitive about their copyrights and they get very angry if you cross them. But as I stated above it’s on page 91 so check it out.

Best regards,

Joe

QUOTE: Originally posted by joe100 Whoa there buddy. A simple "hey could you substantiate that with a photograph?" would have worked just as well. The photograph I’m speaking of is copyrighted by AJ Press and I can't post or link to it on this or any other site. It isn't on my site either because it is unique to AJ Press as far as I know. BUT you can see it in the AJ Press reprint of Siegfried Breyer's book "Graf Zeppelin" on page 91. (ISBN 83-7237-156-3) It shows the partially planked flight deck from elevator #2 looking aft. There is a young woman and a Russian soldier standing in the foreground. Judging by this photo, it appears that about 40% of the decking was completed before the work stoppage. (But if you compare these details to known recon photos this number jumps to 75%) This photo is also unique because it shows Graf Zeppelin’s four screws on the flight deck. They where removed to prevent electrochemical corrosion to the hull and placed in a line on the port side. Very high resolution photograph and it leaves nothing to the imagination. The AJ Press re-release of the Breyer book just hit the shelves about 2 months ago so it is relatively new. The reason I will not post this picture is because not only is it illegal but AJ Press is very sensitive about their copyrights and they get very angry if you cross them. But as I stated above it’s on page 91 so check it out. Best regards, Joe

Convenient for you that you can't prove your claims. You mean the first image I linked to, which shows elevator number two, with elevator 3 blown up in the background? Where there is no wooden planking on the deck? Sorry but you don't have the evidence to sway me, I have all the evidence I need to prove you're a crackpot.

I have a simple solution for you to prove me wrong, scan the image from the book into a computer, and e-mail it to me. Nothing illegal with that.

What is your email adress and i'll do it.

i gave you the ISBN for the book, i mean if i where a crackpot would i do that? would i tell you to pick up a copy of a new book that anyone can buy for $20 and turn to page 91 and see for yourself. gimme your email adress buddy.

i think you owe me an appology for your not-so-kind remarks. i never did anything to you and i can't understand why you are being so mean. i have nothing to hide and i will email you a scan of the photo.

Joe