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Airfix's new 1/100 HMS Victory

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  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:07 AM
The two most convenient web sources for rigging line are Model Expo ( www.modelexpo-online.com ) and Bluejacket ( www.bluejacketinc.com ). Bluejacket carries cotton (not recommended), nylon (ok for the finest lines, but not very good for bigger ones), and linen (great stuff, but it would have to be dyed - and expensive in the necessary quantities). Model Expo, under the Model Shipways label, sells that nice "cotton-poly mix" that - on the basis of limited experience with it - I rather like. I particularly like the "hemp" color and the texture of it; it really does look like rope.

The best (and most expensive) model rope available probably is the material called "Admiralty Brand" linen. It's quite expensive, and the firm that sells it is currently evading my senile memory. I'm inclined to recommend the Model Shipways stuff.

Bluejacket and Model Expo are also good sources for some fittings that you're probably going to want to buy eventually. The blocks and deadeyes that come with the kit really need to be discarded. Styrene plastic is a wonderful, versatile material, but there are some parts to which it just isn't suited. A rigid mold cannot produce a block or deadeye with holes through it and a groove around it. The Heller designers came up with some clever dodges to get around the problem, but they don't really work.

Again, this is a problem that's a long way in the future, but you'll probably want to buy replacement deadeyes and blocks. Some modelers like the wood ones available from Model Expo; my own personal favorites are Bluejacket's cast britannia metal blocks and deadeyes. They aren't cheap, but the expense can, if you like, be spread out over a long period. (You only have to order a dozen at a time.) Yesterday I included links to some pictures of my models; they're rigged with Bluejacket blocks and deadeyes. If you play around a little with that site ( www.drydockmodels.com ) you'll encounter plenty of pictures of models rigged with wood blocks and deadeyes. Take your pick - but the plastic ones in the kit are just about useless.

The Longridge and McKay books probably contain enough info to establish the diameters of line you'll need. The best source on such topics, though, is The Masting and Rigging of British Warships, by James Lees. The diagrams and verbal descriptions in that book are, I think, about the clearest description of the topic in print. Another book that belongs in your library is Seamanship in the Age of Sail, by John Harland. It doesn't contain as much precise data as the others, but it's a wonderful treatise on how old sailing ships actually worked. And the illustrations are spectacular.

Hope this helps a little. Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 16, 2005 11:53 PM
I'll google for places to get the lines from, I guess I need to get the books out to try and figure the correct Dia for them all.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, July 16, 2005 10:26 PM
Vapochilled - it will be a long, long time before you really need to worry much about rigging line. My suggestion, though, is to toss the stuff that came with the kit and buy some line that's made for ship modeling. Dying thread - and getting a nice, even color into it - is far more complicated than simply dipping it. I decided a long time ago that dying thread wasn't worth the trouble. Appropriately-colored thread doesn't cost much, and the stuff MS sells (or that a modeler spins up on a rope-making machine) looks far more like real rope. Besides, far more than four diameters of line will be needed to do even a halfway-decent job of rigging a model like that. If you spend a little extra money on decent line, the improvement in the finished model's appearance will be quite significant.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 16, 2005 5:51 PM
Jtilley, your hired,lol when can you start?
I'll look into those links
Looking at the 4 lines supplied, they look like they might be polyester, they are white so will need dipping.
I'm going to host some pics of the build on my site, once I get them up, I'l leave a link.
Did I mention, I hate canons!!! doing the 24LB lower deck guns, it's just a huge amount of hours, and you don't even see them properly,lol
  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Switzerland
Posted by Imperator-Rex on Saturday, July 16, 2005 3:16 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Drawde

I was also looking forward to the release of the new Airfix Kriegsmarine set (which includes a destroyer and various minesweepers, U-boats and S-boats, all in 1/400) until I discovered that the price is going to be £45.99. This also seems very high (I was expecting it to be somewhere around £20-25) - apart from the destroyer, most of the models in this set must be tiny, and the destroyer can't be -that- big (a 1/600 one is pretty small)

Anyone know if this is also a re-issue? I've never seen these for sale before, individually or as a set, but I'm not exactly an expert. If they are actually new mouldings, the high price is more forgivable.


QUOTE: Originally posted by jtilley

Drawde - I'm pretty sure the Airfix Kriegsmarine set consists of reissued Heller kits. About thirty years ago Heller did quite a series of 1/400 German warships. They aren't bad kits - though not quite as detailed as the best of the Heller French ships. (The old Richelieu is a beauty.) My guess is that the kits in the set are good bases for serious scale models, but probably would take some work. There are some good 1/400 photo-etched metal part sets out there.


Tilley - you're right about the Airfix set; except that it seems to be back in Heller's 2005 catalogue as well (kit #81091). I haven't seem the Airfix set but I'm almost sure it is the same one as the Heller. I haven't bought it though, so I don't know about the quality.

Drawde - You get at least 1 submarine, 1 E-Boat, and 3 destroyer-sized ships (1 Torpedoboot, 1 Zerstorer, 1 unidentified ship); but some sources state that you actually get more than those 5 ships: 1 submarine, 1 Torpedoboot, 1 Zerstorer, 2 mine-laying ships, and 6 E-Boat (see http://kitbox.free.fr/news/HELLER2005_P/). According to Heller, the sub is 168mm long, the Torpedoboot 255mm and the Zerstoerer 315mm - all are 1/400 scale. You can get the U-Boat, the Zerstorer and Torpedoboot individually from Heller (provided you find a shop on the web, but this shouldn't be too hard). The price you mentioned seems to be a little harsh: I found out the Heller kit sells for about 40€ in Europe (about 27£)
For photoetched parts, this might help you a bit: http://www.steelnavy.com/WEM400GermanAA.htm

If you consider getting the submarine separately, I would recommend you get Mirage's subs instead. They have an incredible range of U-Boats in that same 1/400 scale, which allow you to build not only the different tower conversion (and AA guns development) but also three different types (to be more precise: type II A-B-C-D, type VII B-C-C/41 and type IX A-B-C-C/40-D/1-D/2).
I never got Heller's U-Boat in my hands but heard it was less accurate and detailed than Mirage's one (see the flooding holes at http://modelstories.free.fr/analyses/avions/MS2004_2P/HELR_VIIC/index.html ; there are numerous reviews on the web for Mirage's U-Boats - make sure to find the ones with the PE parts on the kit). Another advantage for Mirage is that they produced detailled photoetched kits for almost every U-Boat kit (except type IX D).

I am in the process of building my own fleet of 16 little U-Boats, with different tower configuration and colour paints, and have to say I'm quite pleased with the result (one of my biggest satisfaction being to put the tiny type II next to the long type IXD).

One last hint: go to http://www.ibg.com.pl . They have the largest stock of Mirage PE parts (I had to send tens of email queries until I finally found this shop)
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, July 16, 2005 3:11 PM
Vapochilled - there's a lot of room for discussion about rigging materials. The stuff that comes with plastic kits usually is pretty sorry stuff - some sort of flabby cotton mix that shrinks and expands with changes in the humidity. Most kit-supplied line is also far too heavy for the scale. I don't know what Heller is packing with its kits these days, but I'd be reluctant to use it.

Different modelers have different ideas on this score. My personal preference is silk, but it's hard to find these days. Lots of experienced modelers prefer linen. It's good, durable stuff, but hard to find in small diameters - and if you do find small enough linen it's likely to have lumps in it. If you use either silk or linen, you'll find it's only available in a few diameters. That means that in order to rig the model to scale you'll need to build a "rope making machine," which is a bit of a project. (Making the gadget in itself doesn't take long, but spinning the rigging line yourself does.)

Model Shipways (via Model Expo: www.modelexpo-online.com ) sells some stuff it describes as a "cotton/poly" mix that's given me pretty good results lately. I like the color of it, and the lay of it looks like genuine rope.

Here are links to pictures of three of my models. The Bounty and Hancock have silk rigging; for the Phantom I used some silk (I'm running out of the stuff I bought twenty years ago) and some of the Model Shipways line. On a larger, more complex model I'd be a little worried about mixing materials, but for this little schooner I think it will be ok.

http://gallery.drydockmodels.com/album194

http://gallery.drydockmodels.com/album195

http://gallery.drydockmodels.com/album207


One tip: whatever you use for the rigging, don't use coffee or tea to color it. Both contain acids that are highly destructive to fibers; your rigging is likely to start falling apart in a few years. Your first choice should be to buy thread of the right color in the first place. If you can't find the right color, use a fabric dye that's made for the purpose.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 16, 2005 3:11 PM
Revan-i've seen that kit recently-maybe a european re-issue. i Googled and couldn't find it. But all you Victory fans, hear this: Verlinden makes a gun deck cutway with 1 cannon-would make a great compliment to your model. They also make a Lord Nelson figure to match-but he's not in a cask of rum.

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Revan on Saturday, July 16, 2005 2:05 PM
I have a IMAI 1/80 scale Japanese wood kit "cut model" that I purchased a number of years ago in Japan. It's a slice of the Victory at the Main Mast, from top to keelson. All of the instructions are in Japanese!!!!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 16, 2005 10:48 AM
All the large surfave areas, I am priming so I can see any missed sanding, before the top coat goes on. Yes the red rudder and black canon carridges, started on those last night! The thread in this kit is white! I need to give a good stiff cup of coffee before use. why do you not use the thread? what do you use instead?
Big jake, mail sent, thanks
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 16, 2005 9:21 AM
JT- it is a great idea to wash parts-especially resin, and priming may start to obscure detail-like wood grain. LPIB*

*less paint is better, ;-)

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Saturday, July 16, 2005 9:00 AM
Vapochilled,

Contact of off BB and I'll shoot you some pictures of my Victory.

jbgroby@cox.net

Jake in La.

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, July 16, 2005 8:31 AM
Vapochilled - not having actually built the Heller Victory I'm afraid I can't help much. I did spot the mixed up numbers on the deck beams. That made me wonder what other typographical errors might lurk in those instructions.

I'm a little confused by your references to priming. Primer isn't necessary to make modern, high-quality hobby paint stick to styrene plastic. (It is, though, a good idea to wash all the parts in soap and water, to remove any residual mold release.) The Heller Victory that I got was molded in several garish colors - some of them downright irrational. (E.g. - black gun carriages that were to be painted yellow, and a bright red rudder.) If I were building the thing I'd probably give those gun carriage components a sprayed or airbrushed coat of grey to provide a good base for the yellow, but I wouldn't regard it as necessary to prime everything.

My biggest color-related criticism of that kit concerned the rigging line, which was a peculiar, nauseous shade of green. But I recommend discarding any kit-supplied thread in any case.

Drawde - I'm pretty sure the Airfix Kriegsmarine set consists of reissued Heller kits. About thirty years ago Heller did quite a series of 1/400 German warships. They aren't bad kits - though not quite as detailed as the best of the Heller French ships. (The old Richelieu is a beauty.) My guess is that the kits in the set are good bases for serious scale models, but probably would take some work. There are some good 1/400 photo-etched metal part sets out there.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 16, 2005 7:19 AM
I had no idea it was a re-issue of the Heller kit, I assumed with a price as high as £99 it had to be a new moulding. Seems a very steep price for a kit which isn't exactly brand-new and has a number of problems.
Hopefully the instructions should at least be an improvement on the Heller ones.

I was also looking forward to the release of the new Airfix Kriegsmarine set (which includes a destroyer and various minesweepers, U-boats and S-boats, all in 1/400) until I discovered that the price is going to be £45.99. This also seems very high (I was expecting it to be somewhere around £20-25) - apart from the destroyer, most of the models in this set must be tiny, and the destroyer can't be -that- big (a 1/600 one is pretty small)

Anyone know if this is also a re-issue? I've never seen these for sale before, individually or as a set, but I'm not exactly an expert. If they are actually new mouldings, the high price is more forgivable.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 16, 2005 1:56 AM
I'll put this in here rather than start a new thread for now.
this is for anyone who HAS built the heller victory:
I've got the two primed hull sides together tonight, put in the cross braces(after finding out the drawing numbers are wrong!)
Now, before I glue down that lower deck, I see that the mast holes go through into locators in the bottom of the hull X3
Given the accuracy so far, I just want to make sure that those locators are in the correct place to give the right mast angles? If not, then I can do something about it now before the decks go down permantly.
Also, if you have built it, I'd like some info on where those rope loops are supposed to go on the port/strb stern area, drawing just shows them poking through holes around the gun ports?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 10:54 PM
Most of them I don't know or use, but things like LOL, or if it's really funny ROFL I use often, I agree it's very lazy, I should stop using them.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 10:01 PM
Don't worry JT-there's only a few acronyms widely used. You'll get used to them (read as bored) before long.

Dan
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, July 15, 2005 9:49 PM
Gentlemen, I thank you.

I thought it might mean "lots o' luck." Seems that phrase is in the lexicon trowlfazz cited, but "laugh out loud" makes more sense.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 9:41 PM
Hey Jtilley check this out:
http://www.gaarde.org/acronyms/
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 9:37 PM
"laughing out loud"-there are many acronyms as well as emoticons used because we hate to type.

Dan
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Australia
Posted by womble on Friday, July 15, 2005 9:36 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jtilley

Fully realizing that I'm about to reveal my status as a relative newcomer to the fine art of blogging, I feel like I need to ask a question. Just what the heck does "lol" mean?


laugh out loud

just an example of how lazy we are with the English language these days Cool [8D]
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, July 15, 2005 9:07 PM
Fully realizing that I'm about to reveal my status as a relative newcomer to the fine art of blogging, I feel like I need to ask a question. Just what the heck does "lol" mean?

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 10:08 AM
lolok, have thought about it, but I really don't have an issue with the time frame on this one, I'll see how they turn out once I start painting them. As for the masts, I was goint to put brass tube up the insides to give some strength to them
Trowlfazz, heard it before, but suddenly it's tempting,lol
Big Jake, once you've dragged your self away from the porn catalouge,lol if airfix do sens something worth reading, I'd love a copy please.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Friday, July 15, 2005 7:28 AM
I emailed Airfix and was contacted for my mailing address, but the message did not give any details one way or the other. I hope thay send something in the mail. I like that funny feeling when you put up at home and see a "Plain Wrapped package in the mail box" either it's an adult surprise (HAHAHAHA) or something to do with modeling.

Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 7:28 AM
Hey Vapo! Youshould model a submarine race.

Sorry, very old joke.
Dan
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: On the way to AC+793888
Posted by lolok on Friday, July 15, 2005 5:20 AM
The best thing to save your sanity and the look of the kit is to just ditch the plastic cannon and buy brass and wood ones. I did and it makes a world of difference. The spare ones I placed in front on the base unpainted so viewers could see the different sizes of gun and show off the brass.Also a good Idea to replace the top masts with wood.Saves some heartache down the line.
Finally as nobody has mentioned it yet.THROW the vac sails as far away as possible......Don't go there.
I did also hear a rumour from a German model shop owner here in Warsaw that a german model ship company is going to produce a full set of 'Authentic' Ratlines for the heller kit and the Soleil Royale ?? Could be hot air as so many rumours are.
Jim Ryan Ex-Pat Limey in warsaw.Poland. " MENE,MENE,TEKEL U PHARSIN"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 14, 2005 10:52 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by trowlfazz

JTilley-Je suis francais but you are a real model affieicenado (sp?). I'll stick to dreadnoughts but your knowledge is an inspiration.

Dan


one shade of grey and half a dozen canons,lol sheesh, where's your sense of adventure? you've not lived till you've sat and glued together 100 canons.....looked and the join lines on them and burst into tears!Sad [:(] I have 30 of them ready for priming, I have one hull half de-flashed one anchor that refuses to dry, things are going greatTongue [:P]
maybe I'll do the custom racing version of victory? one canon on the bow, one mast, one sail and all one colour to save on paint weight!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 14, 2005 10:13 PM
JTilley-Je suis francais but you are a real model affieicenado (sp?). I'll stick to dreadnoughts but your knowledge is an inspiration.

Dan
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: On the way to AC+793888
Posted by lolok on Thursday, July 14, 2005 3:14 PM
Hi Sailors,
Big Jake,you can put me down for a set as well..After all these years it would be amazing to see a PROPER set of instructions for the good old Victory. If they have done a new set,Airfix could probably make a tidy sum on just selling those to all us Heller kit owners.
When i bought my first one,a scary number of years ago,it did not even have the English???? (translation) I had to write to heller asking for it. When it came I realized I should not have bothered.
Thats when I began my library of Victory era books.
Jim Ryan Ex-Pat Limey in warsaw.Poland. " MENE,MENE,TEKEL U PHARSIN"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:41 PM
yes, even in French,lol

big jake,
That would be excellent, keep us posted?
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