US Coast Guard Barque Eagle

I'm "replying" to get this thread moved back to page 1. The subject has come up again.

Great! Ill give him a call today during work. Thanks a bunch again man, I owe you some pics of it when Im done.

pnawrocki - Glad to be of help.

There may be some potential for confusion here. My good friend Andy Fulcher (we're both proud members of the Carolina Maritime Modelers' Association), I gather, has the Academy 1/350 kit. The one I found is the considerably bigger Imai 1/200 one. I don' t have it in my possession; it's still (I hope) at Denbigh Hobbies, waiting behind the counter for you to get in touch with Dan. All the info you need to contact him is in the post above. I'd recommend calling him on the phone. When he gets your address he'll be able to tell you the cost of shipping. You can trust Dan. He does a great deal of business shipping kits to Navy vessels on deployment.

WOW!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! Now i can stop searching ebay 3 times a day, and finally get down to building this beauty! Ive contacted you via email, do you have AIM? Just tell me what info you need from me and where to send payment and were set. Thanks a million jtilley!

pnawrocki,

I have the Academy Eagle that I will sell you. Contact me off-line modeler2@earthlink.net if interested.

Andy

I'm "replying" to get this thread moved to the head of the list. The subject has come up again.

pnawrocki - I just got back from a three-day trip to Tidewater Virginia. While in Newport News I paid a visit to one of my old stomping grounds, Denbigh Hobby Center. The owner, Dan, is an old friend; I stop in whenever I'm in the neighborhood.

Dan's specialty is plastic aircraft kits, but he carries a fair selection of ships. Relatively few of his customers are interested in them, so the turnover in that department isn't high. Yesterday I spent some time rummaging around the stack of old ship kits, and discovered - still in the original shrinkwrap, but with a pretty thick coating of dust - an Imai 1/200 Eagle.

The price marked on it (obviously quite a few years ago) was $50.00. I told Dan about the kit's importance (i.e., that it's the best Eagle on the market) and that I knew of somebody who was looking for it. Dan had no idea that it was a rare kit. He put it behind the counter, with the understanding that I would notify you that it's available.

Dan does do mail order. He wasn't able to tell me how much the shipping expense would be, because I couldn't give him your address. He'll keep the kit benind his counter for two weeks or so; if you don't order it by then, he'll put the kit on e-bay.

If you're interested, the kit is waiting for you at Denbigh Hobby Center, 14351 Warwick Blvd., Newport News, VA 23602. The phone number is (757) 874-5708. Dan has a relatively small website: www.dhcinc.com . His e-mail address (which he uses to handle mail order) is DHC@DHCinc.com .

Dan's a good, straight-shooting guy; I've been doing business with him for twenty-five years. The price is steep for a plastic ship kit, but I suspect you'd pay at least that much on e-bay.

Hope this is of interest.

The Original Gorch Fock delivered in 1933 was 62 meters on the W/L. This is the ship that Underhill made the set of drawing for. The Horst Wessel (now Eagle) 1936 and the Albert Leo Schalageter (now Sagres) 1938 were 70 meters on the W/L. Gorch Fock II was built from the plans of the Albert Leo Schlageter in 1958 but ended up with a 70.2 meter hull at the W/L. All 4 ships were built at Blohm and Voss

The little Heller kit doesn't look too bad for the scale (if one can live with those injection-molded "sails"). As a model of the Eagle, though, it has some problems.

The basic shapes look about right, but it seems to have an odd conglomeration of features that date from different periods. The painting on the box appears to include the pilothouse at the break of the quarterdeck, but the kit doesn't seem to have it. On the other hand, the kit has the double spanker rig and the painting doesn't. I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I don't think she ever had the double spankers and the "slash" simultaneously before the pilothouse was added. If I'm right, the kit can't represent her accurately at any one date without some bashing.

Putting two and two together, I wonder if what we're looking at here is a fairly old model of the Gorch Fock (either I or II; on 1/600 the differences between them wouldn't be great) with a set of USCG decals added. On this scale Heller probably figured it could get away with that. A clue might be the figurehead. The current figurehead of the Eagle is a highly-stylized eagle (which actually looks to me like a slightly emaciated pigeon). (The painting on the box appears to show the original, German-carved eagle, which was removed a long time ago - and never co-existed with the "slash.") The Gorch Fock's figurehead is an even more stylized albatros. On 1/600 scale the difference between them may not be noticeable.

All this is pretty picky stuff. On the other hand, modelers routinely apply pretty tough standards of accuracy to 1/700 warship kits.

Incidentally, if anybody's interested in building a nice model of a sail training ship and doesn't care which one, the biggest and best available probably is the Heller 1/150 Gorch Fock II.

Here's a picture of the contents of the Heller 1/600 kit. It only has 20 parts, so it's a simple build. I model in 1/700, and have some resin USCG cutters that I'm going to put this one with, if the scale discrepancy is too bad.

There is also another Eagle kit out there. Heller has a 1/600 kit. It's pretty basic but looks to be a nice build for small display piece. I have one on the shelf at home that I'll get to one of these days, along with my old Revell Eagle I got a couple of years back.

If anyone cares, I can photo the Heller 1/600 box and the sprues so you can see what is in it. I picked it up from Tower Hobbies early this year.

I haven't seen either of the two Imai 1/200 kits, the Eagle or the Sagres II. But if Imai is using the same hull parts for both, one of them has to be wrong. All the members of that class had hulls of different lengths.

We discussed this topic some time ago, and a member from Rumania (if I remember right) referred us to a website that contained a concise listing of all the ships in the class - their dimensions, the name changes they'd undergone, and their current nationalities. I'm afraid that thread is buried deep in the pages of the Forum; if anybody else remembers it, maybe you can find it again.

Hey yea thanks, if you could post some pictures of the 1/200 Imai Eagle that would be much appreciated. Ive been looking on ebay 2x a day for it, still no luck . If you dont mind me asking, how much did you pay for yours (just so I can be aware of the potential price range)?. Thanks a lot man

rcboater is correct the 1/200 Imai Eagle is the best.Also Imai made a 1/200 Sagres II.which is the same hull as the Eagle .The Deck and its fittings are different.You just have to watch Ebay they come up for sale 4-5 times a year.Perhaps Aoshima bought these molds From IMai also.
Rod

I'd love to see a set of generic parts for use on as many of the 1/350 scale Academy sailing ships as possible.
FIrst, I'd like to see a serires of ratlines- this is the one thing you can't find anywhere else. Other parts could be included, such as railings ladders, stairs, etc. I know that most of them can be found as odds and ends on other sheets, but not all of us have a big stash of leftovers. It would be nice if a selection of these were found on the same sheet with the ratlines.

As far as I know, there is no 1/250 scale Eagle, at least not by Imai. The only thing close to 1/250 is the original Revell kit in 1/253 as described by jtilley.

I really think the 1/200 scale Imai kit is the "best" modern Eagle, but it will be very hard to find. I got mine off eBay a few years ago- I've only seen once since then. (But I don't monitor it 24x7....) It will probably be expensive, too.

The Minicraft 1/350 kit is only $10, so there's little risk to try one. Regarding jtilley's comments about the pilothouse, the kit does include it. FYI, The pilothouse has been the same size since it was added to the forward end of the bridge. It is basically as jtilley described-- a boxy structure with windows all around, built around the stack for the diesel engine.
Because the stack comes up though the pilothouse, there is not a lot of room inside. The primary reason for the pilothouse was to provide a sheltered location for the radar console, Loran or satnav receiver, and radio gear. Over the years, the electronic gear has been changed, of course.....
(Not sure if I was clear before- but I am the author of the in-box preview I provided the link for.)

If there is interest, I could take a few photos of the 1/200 jkit and post them.
--Bill

QUOTE: Originally posted by rcboater (I do wish someone would make a generic tall ships PE detail set for these little kits.)

What would you like to see? Maybe I can help.

I might. Im gonna look around for that 1/200 scale because a 17.7 inch Eagle is better than a 10.1 inch Eagle.

Rcboater's post says 1/200. Never having seen the kit in question, I can't comment beyond that.

I'm afraid that kit is going to be extremely hard to find - and extremely expensive if you do find it. You might want to consider the 1/350 version. As rcboater says, it's a basically sound kit - and not too hard to find.

wait im confused too...is the rare one 1/200 or 1/250?

Now I'm confused. I know about the Imai 1/350 kit, and rcboater has made us aware that there's a 1/200 version from the same company. But 1/250?

Oops my bad, I dont read too well . Its the 1:250 scale made by Imai not 1:200. I know Imai sold the molds to other companies so what companies did in fact make the 1:250 scale Eagle?

I desperately want to get my hands on one of these, and have been searching the web and local hobby stores like crazy to no avail. If anyone knows where i can get one, that would be greatly appreciated beyond all belief! Thanks guys.

I was completely unaware of the 1/200 Imai kit. There seems to be a hole in the middle of my knowledge of plastic ship model history. It appears to center right around 1980 - when I quit working in a hobby shop and got a job in a maritime museum, where I wasn't making enough money to think about buying such things. That was right around the brief heyday of Imai kits, which were some of the best ever.

I think the basic problem with the little Imai 1/350 kit is that the company used many (if not all) of the same parts to represent several ships. The series also included the Gorch Fock, the Sagres, and maybe one or more of the Eagle's other near-but-not-quite sisters. I suspect the kits may have been identical except for the decal sheets. In Imai's defense, at that time (the mid-seventies) most modelers were building their Eagles according to the incorrect Underhill plans. I rather suspect Imai used those plans for several of the kits in the 1/350 series. That would explain - partially - such things as the ancient-looking ship's boats.

I'm not sure about this point, but on the basis of the photos in the review to which rcboater linked us, it looks like the 1/350 kit doesn't include the big modern pilothouse. There was a deckhouse at the break of the quarterdeck for quite a while, but the one in the kit appears to be an older, smaller one without the big windows in the front. It wouldn't be too hard to modify the kit, using sheet styrene. As I recall, the new pilothouse is actually a pretty simple structure - basically a steel box with windows in the front. I think it functions largely as a classroom for teaching navigation to the cadets in bad weather. As I remember, for good weather navigating there's a big, collapsible chart table on the quarterdeck outside it.

Rather remarkably, this kit does seem to have the double-spanker rig - which the real ship didn't have in 1976. In any case, a nice little kit and a sound basis for a good scale model.

One small bit of trivia about the markings. The "Coast Guard Slash" originated during the Kennedy administration; the Eagle got hers (to the accompaniment of quite a bit of bitter argument) a few years later. (We took this up in another Forum thread a year or so ago. It seems the subject still ignites some emotions - on both sides.) When the "slash" was added, so were the words "Coast Guard." Sometime between 1989 and 1991, at the behest of one of George Bush's Secretaries of Transportation, it was decided to add the letters "U.S." As ships and aircraft came in for repairs and got repainted, "U.S." was added - in the same Zurich Bold Extended font - to their hulls and fuselages. (I found this out when I was doing a series of drawings of CG aircraft, in 1991. A Hercules that had just been delivered to the CG Air Station in Elizabeth City had the "U.S."; older helicopters in the same hangar didn't.) There was a period when some said "U.S. Coast Guard" and some said "Coast Guard." I'm not sure exactly when the Eagle got her "U.S." added; she certainly had it when I took pictures of her in 1994, and she has it now. The decal sheet in the Imai/Academy/Minicraft kit apparently doesn't. The good news is that if you buy two kits you can scrounge the necessary letters out of COAST GUARD. (Slice up a T to make the periods.)

I once e-mailed Loren Perry, of Gold Medal Models, and suggested that he make some parts for sailing ships. He wasn't interested. He claimed he didn't know the subject well enough (I rather doubt that; he's an extremely knowledgeable man), and that his modern ship and railroad lines were keeping him more than busy enough. I wish one of the photo-etching companies would get interested in this sort of thing. The potential is there all right. On 1/350 scale photo-etched shrouds and ratlines could be pretty convincing. Some of the parts in the GMM 1/350 merchant ship or warship set would be applicable to those Imai schoolships - the handrails and ladders, for instance. But I don't think the sailing ship modeling fraternity in general has yet appreciated the potential of the medium.

Wow thats great!! I didnt even know they made a 1/200 scale Eagle. Would you reccomend the Imai 1/200 scale Eagle or the Imai 1/350 scale Eagle to make a more accurate modern day Eagle.

By the way I thought your "Model Kits of the USCG" article on your website was awesome because I am so interested in making Coast Guard models. Im currently in the process of doing a HH-65A Dolphin and have a Cobra Company HH-60 Jayhawk conversion kit coming in for my HH-60B Seahawk. I also saw a C-130 in Coast Guard colors that I was really tempted to buy. If I could only figure out how to make white paint stick I would buy it in a heartbeat.

I'm sorry I didn't see this thread earlier-- I certainly can contribute.

JTilley was right on with most of his comments-- I only have one correction:

There is one other plastic kit that he missed- a 1/200 scale plastic kit by Imai. As far as I can tell, it is long out of production- I got my copy on Ebay, and I'd guess it dates from the early 1980s. At 1/200 scale, it is the biggest plastic kit of Eagle out there. The kit is pretty rare, but I have seen it come up for sale on ebay a couple of times in the last year. It is the best kit to build an Eagle as she appeared when I sailed on her in 1980. The kit has the pilothouse, and a single spanker, and inflatable raft stowage instead of boat stowage amidships. The kit also has a good lookign USCG 26 foot MSB- the only kit I've seen of any USCG ship with one of these. The kit includes decals for the USCG Stripe and "Coast Guard" lettering. (The last boxing of the Revell kit, released in the 1980s, included these decals as well, but the rest of the kit still reflected the ship as she appeared in 1957.)


It is a good kit-- but does have a couple of shortcomings- there is no detail at all on the exterior of the hull. (Eagle has pretty pronounced riveted hull plates.) The other thing is the fact that the planking is represented by recessed lines , but they are only run fore and aft. (Makes the deck look like it was planked with a single planks that runs the full length of the deck.)

I checked the Imai kit- the length is right, too. At 1/200 scale, the model should be just shy of 18 inches long, and it is.

The 1/350 scale kit is closer to the ship's current appearance than the old, old, Revell kit. However, the kit is a little light on detail. (I do wish someone would make a generic tall ships PE detail set for these little kits.) I did a kit preview for Modeling Madness a year or two ago-- you can see it here:
http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/misc/michaelseaglepreview.htm

If you want to get a copy of the USCG official plans, I highly recommend going through the USCG Museum Northwest, in Seattle, washington. They have a great collection of USCG plans, and their prices are very reasonable. (I think I got mine for $10 about 4 years ago.) These are copies of the offiucial USCG plans- some are USCG drawings in 1/96 scale, while a couple of pages are the original German plans in 1/100 scale.

Your choices boil down to:
1. Get a copy of the Revell kit if you want to do a 1957 Eagle.
2. Get the Academy kit for a 1980's Eagle.
3. Find a copy of the Imai kit, ffor the best 1980s Eagle, but expect to wait for one, and pay $50 or more for it.

Hope this helps,

-Bill

This month's issue of Sea Classic Magazine has an article on the Eagle. It is written by someone who served aboard the ship. Some new and old pictures are included.

Wow, the information you provide is incredible. Thanks a lot, i do believe thats it...for now
Thanks again.

The basic scheme is as follows:

Hull above the waterline - white. (Whether to make it pure white or an off-white on a small-scale model is a matter of opinion and taste.)

Hull below the waterline - dark red anti-fouling paint.

Waterline stripe - black. (Again - pure black or slightly lighter, depending on individual taste and opinion.)

Superstructure bulkheads, rail stanchions, boat hulls, etc. - white.

Deck planking - unpainted wood.

Wheel box and other wood deck fixtures - varnished mahogany.

Masts, yards, and other spars - "spar color." (That's a yellowish buff.)

Here's the link to the CG Historian's Office page, quoting current CG painting regulations: http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/USCG_Painting_Regs_1973.html

Also recommended: the Coast Guard's "Visual Images" site: http://cgvi.uscg.mil/ . Click on the big yellow word "LOGON" at the top of the home page, then type in "uscg" (in lower-case letters) for both "USER ID" and "PASSWORD." That will take you to a page with a search function. In the "What?" box at the top of that page, type "Eagle"; then click "Search." You'll get 277 color photos of the ship.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Hey man thanks again for all your help. I really appreciate it! Since you seem so knowledgeable in this subject would you happen to have the correct military colors for the boat? Thank you!
(last thing i promise/hope)

If I were you I'd cross that bridge if I came to it. The decals in the kit may be fine.

If they aren't, there are several possible solutions. Several products on the market can be sprayed on deteriorated decal sheets, and sometimes work. There's a separate topic in this Forum for decal problems; I'd better leave this one to the folks who know more about it than I do.

Another alternative is to buy replacement decals. Superscale makes one sheet of U.S. Coast Guard aircraft markings - and CG aircraft and ships use the same font and the same insignia. The Superscale sheet contains the "U.S. Coast Guard" lettering and the Coast Guard shield in many different sizes; I suspect one of them would work fine for a 1/350 scale ship.

As a last resort, if you have a computer (as you obviously do) and a reasonably good printer, you can make your own decals. The big problems would be the "U.S. Coast Guard" lettering on the sides and the crossed anchor shields in the middle of the slashes. The font the CG uses for the lettering is called Zurich Bold Extended. It's part of the standard set of fonts that comes with WordPerfect. You could print a copy of the CG shield from the CG website,scan it, and reduce it to the proper size. Several dealers (one is Micromark, www.micromark.com ) sell blank decal paper that you can run through your printer.

My guess, though, is that the decals on those two e-bay kits are all right. The pictures suggest that the kits are in pretty good shape.