SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

HMS Victory build

27773 views
167 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, December 5, 2005 12:59 AM

I can see only two possible drawbacks to the fishline Rallynavvie described.  (I assume it's nylon, or some other modern synthetic.)  One - some materials like that are hard to tie into knots, because they're slippery and don't like to assume sharp bends.  But that may not be relevant to this particular material.  Two - as Rallynavvie pointed out, there may be a problem with texture, especially in the larger diameters.  If the stuff looks like it's braided, it doesn't look like rope.

Real rope, in the Victory's time frame, wasn't braided; it was twisted.  As a matter of fact the direction in which it was twisted varied according to the purpose of the particular line.  (We took this up earlier.  Shrouds and stays generally were laid up left-handed; most other lines were right-handed.)  That's why, when ship modelers really start getting into the subject, they start thinking in terms of "rope-making machines."  My little model of the Hancock has more different diameters of line on it than I remember, but they all started out as two sizes of silk thread (plus a few sizes of brass and nickel-chromium wire).  I don't recommend that route for first-timers, though.  My suggestion:  pay some attention to the question of durability (don't use tea or coffee for dye), but concentrate on getting the diameters and colors right.

Regarding color - there's some room for taste and interpretation.  At the time in question, an act of Parliament dictated that all rope supplied to the Royal Navy be soaked in something called "Stockholm tar."  I've never seen Stockholm tar, but it apparently was a rich, medium brown.  That's what the running rigging ought to look like (not pale beige or white).  The standing rigging generally was coated (after it was in place, in some cases) with an ugly concoction containing tar and lampblack which, if it wasn't pure black in color, must have been pretty close. 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 7, 2005 5:11 PM

Well I just got my blocks delivered from Bluejacket, nice and quick.

Two observations, first, a lot of work to make the blocks look good, a few hours with the file.

Second, I'm an idiot! I ordered 3/32 singles, they are damn small !!! I needed 1/8 at most, I guess there were some smaller blocks on board, So I will find a use for them, if I can thread the damn things.

I dropped one on the carpet.....gone to the carpet monster, at least being cast metal, I'll know when the hoover finds it!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 7, 2005 7:02 PM

Vapo,

I can't wait to hear about your rigging expeiences. Let us know, and with photos if possible what you are doing and what difficulties you are having. Oh yes, and successes. After following this thread and others as to your Victory, I am interested to find out how you are going to tackle this one.

Good sewing,Laugh [(-D]

Robert

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 7, 2005 9:22 PM
Well it's certainly drawing closer, but so is mother nature, so the build may well be interupted once we are three! Really not sure what to expect there, not a clue as to how much "free" time I won't have.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, December 7, 2005 9:36 PM

I hope the following doesn't come across like pontificating, or "I told you so," but I'm a little uncomfortable sitting by watching while people spend lots of unnecessary money.

When it comes to aftermarket parts, my suggestion is:  1.  Come up with a list of the parts you think you're likely to need in the fairly near future.  2.  Study the suppliers' websites and figure out which of their products look like they'll work for that purpose.  (You probably won't be able to tell for sure from the descriptions and pictures.)  3.  Order a dozen of each, and find out which ones actually will work.  4.  Order as many of those fittings you think you'll need over the stretch of a month or two - with a dozen or so extras to compensate for losses and damage.

If you're currently working on the hull of a ship model, you're months - maybe years - away from doing the running rigging.  There's no reason whatever to spend hundreds of dollars on blocks and deadeyes that you won't need till sometime in 2007.  Those companies are used to doing mail order, and give good service; waiting for deliveries won't slow you down significantly.

It's also unnecessary to decide in the early stages of such a project just how much rigging you're going to install.  As we've established earlier, there's plenty of room for personal choice and taste there.  The difference between rigging a model of a full-rigged ship with the basic running rigging and all the sail gear is a difference of hundreds of blocks.  To order all of them when you've just started work on the model doesn't make much sense.

The first steps in the rigging process involve the lower shrouds and stays.  They require the biggest deadeyes and hearts in the ship.  The lower deadeyes, being secured to the channels and the hull by the chainplates, do need to be considered early in the construction process.  Those are the first fittings to buy.  If you work at typical speed, you won't need the corresponding upper deadeyes for several months. 

Throw the Heller rigging instructions away.  The people responsible for them didn't understand rigging, and in any case the instructions are geared toward the fittings that came with the kit - which, as we've established, aren't useable.  The foldout plans in the Longridge book, if I remember correctly, are reproduced at 1/8"=1' scale (1/96).  that's close enough to 1/100 that you can get the correct sizes of the blocks and deadeyes from the drawings.  (If I'm wrong about the scale of the reproductions, you can either have them enlarged on a copy machine or do the arithmetic to get the block sizes.) 

An eighteenth-century ship-of-the-line had many different sizes and types of blocks in its rigging.  A miniature block that's 3/32" long represents, on 1/100 scale, a block that's about 9" long.  That's a good-sized block, though not an enormous one.  You probably won't need anything smaller.  How many 3/32" blocks you'll actually need will depend on how much rigging you install, but you'll probably end up using quite a few of them.

The smaller the block, the harder it is to work with.  One of the few user-friendly features built into a sailing ship model is that, as a general rule, the higher up you get, the smaller the blocks and deadeyes get.  So the first ones you rig are the biggest - and easiest.  Those 3/32" blocks are tiny, all right - but you probably won't need any of them for a long time. 

I find that three tools are necessary for making Bluejacket blocks work:  a pair of tweezers, an appropriately-sized drill bit in a pin vise, and a small, knife-edged file.  (The latter, unfortunately, seems harder to find these days than it used to be.  I've got a little German one that I bought many years ago, and I guard it with my life.  If you can't find a knife-edged file, the smallest triangular one you can find will probably work.)  It also helps, in the case of the smallest blocks, to have a small hand vise, or perhaps a hemostat, to hold the block while you work on it.

The procedure I use is:  1.  Ream out the hole with the drill.  2.  Break off the casting sprue (if any) with the tweezers. 3.  Clean up the groove around the circumference with the file.  4.  Thread the block onto a piece of wire.  5.  When all the blocks you're going to need in this rigging session (plus a few spares) are threaded onto the wire, twist the ends of the wire together.  That will keep you from losing the blocks during the nexts step.  6.  If you want the blocks to be black - dip them in Bluejacket's "Pewter Black."  Lay them on a piece of tissue paper to dry, then shoot them with clear flat spray lacquer.  If you want them to be brown - spray them lightly with Floquil metal primer, then brush-paint them with a thin coat of brown hobby paint.

I lost count of how many Bluejacket blocks went into my model of the Hancock, but it was well over a thousand.  The first few almost drove me crazy, but the learning curve phenomenon works here as in so many other aspects of the hobby.  When I hit my stride I was preparing an average of two blocks every three minutes.  Once your head and your fingers get trained, it's really not so hard - especially if you start with the bigger fittings and work your way down to the smaller ones. 

End of sermon.  Good luck.

 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 7, 2005 11:15 PM

Ah JT, who needs a level head at a time like this, I'M BUILDING A BOAT!,lol

I do agree that the smaller ones will not be needed for quite some time, hence my disspleasure at myself for ordering the wrong ones. The "hull" is complete(bar a few touch ups) All the decks are in/on, all the canons are done and in/on(thank god!)

Superstructure is done apart from the toilets, I pre made the boats(along with tiller and other details first and put them to one side ready), all that is left is the "touches" on the upper and poop deck, plus any bits that need touching up around that area. The "planks" (sorry) that the chain plates fix to are on and painted. Soooooooo, I put the trhee lower mast sections in tonight.

Had to write it small, because I know someone will shout at meBlush [:I]

So the lower shrouds could well be started before Christmas,

She's realy starting to take shape, and it's getting harder to control the enthusiasm, and urge to rush. Even my wife as she walked past said "wow" tonight. I'm lucky that my job often allows a full day or two to work on her, that of course will change soon.

As far as the sermon goes, preach on dear boy, preach on! I can say without fear, that had it not been for the calming words of this forum that I may have lost my way to square rigged utopia many moons ago,lol.

I'll try and get some pictures up this week, as she does look very different from the burnt offerings last seen.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 8, 2005 7:44 AM

Vapo,

She looks different eh? So you decided to go with the hot pink and lime green color scheme!

I hope you went ahead and did the masts in polka dot and the yards in checkerboard as per the Heller instructions. Eh, those frenchies! What a sense of humor.

Don't forget to post a pic of the little modeler to be when he arrives.

Robert

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 8, 2005 1:41 PM
He. had better be a she as per the reviewsWink [;)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 8, 2005 2:26 PM

Ok, posted a couple of new pics up on my site, I know there is some work still to go, but it is definately starting to resemble a big boatWink [;)]Tongue [:P]

They say the devil is in the details, well I think he brought friends! seems the smaller the job, the longer it takes to do properly!

  • Member since
    October 2004
Posted by gleason on Thursday, December 8, 2005 5:08 PM

That it is....

Nice work and great pix...

Hope mine turns out as good.

<Gleason>

Fargo, ND

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 8, 2005 6:30 PM

Vapo,

Looking great. You are a brave one to tackle that ship at this point in your eh....sailing ship modeling career.

Just one comment. Just curious as to why you went with the bee color scheme and not the pink and green?Tongue [:P]Shock [:O]

Keep it up. Your BOAT, as I know is about ready for the STRINGS and PLASTIC SAILS. Don't forget that these STRINGS normally go vertical, but I think just tying a bunch to different places will make it look busy enough for anyone who doesn't know about these ol' BOATS.

Robert

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 8, 2005 9:49 PM

All those plastic sails were good for was airbrush practice, I would like to rig her fully sailed, but I think it's more than I can chew right now.

First, model since childhood, yes I must be bloody mad, and start it when the wife was 3 months pregnant! Seemed like a good idea at the time.

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Chuck Fan on Friday, December 9, 2005 1:58 AM
 jtilley wrote:

Regarding color - there's some room for taste and interpretation.  At the time in question, an act of Parliament dictated that all rope supplied to the Royal Navy be soaked in something called "Stockholm tar."  I've never seen Stockholm tar, but it apparently was a rich, medium brown.  That's what the running rigging ought to look like (not pale beige or white).  The standing rigging generally was coated (after it was in place, in some cases) with an ugly concoction containing tar and lampblack which, if it wasn't pure black in color, must have been pretty close. 



It also depends on where the ship got its cordage.   Ships that served in the East Indies often acquires from local sources the much prized manila cordage.   Manila cordage is superior to European cordage, but it is prized above all for its nearly white nature color, which is thought to give the ship a particularly smart apparence.    Manila cordage must have therefore escaped Stockhole tar treatment.



  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 9, 2005 3:52 PM

I'm realtively new to constructing ship models, especially the old fashioned ones with sails, riggings, etc. Regarding the HMS Victory,(which is a ship which has always interested me greatly) what are the best  painting precedures? That is, what exactly do you pre-coat it with after you apply the plastic-prep? Also, how do you simulate wood effects with plastic without ruining the model? Just slapping on some deck tan doesn't exactly make the model look convincing. Please educate me!!

Thanks!

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, December 9, 2005 4:52 PM

Modelbauer 14 - Welcome to the Forum!  I think you'll find it useful and enjoyable - though it's inhabited by some rather odd people.

Modern hobby paints designed for plastic kits are, generally speaking, excellent products.  There's no chemical or mechanical reason to do anything to styrene plastic in order to get paint to stick to it.  Lots of modelers do, however, like to start with a "primer" coat of some neutral color, like grey - especially if the object in question is in several contrasting colors.  (That Heller Victory is molded in several garish colors, like bright yellow, bright red, and black.  A grey primer coat gives a thin finish coat a fighting chance of looking even throughout.  More enlightened manufacturers nowadays mold their kits in grey plastic.)  The primer doesn't have anything to do with making the paint stick; it just provides a uniform base color. 

I haven't used Plastic-Prep, but I believe it's a cleaner.  It's not a bad idea to wash the parts in some solution like that before you start, to remove any mold release that's left over from the manufacturing process.  I confess, though, that in a modeling career of 49 years I've often failed to do it - with no noticeable ill effects.

There are quite a few ways to simulate wood grain on plastic parts.  We had a pretty good discussion of the topic recently in a thread headed "Need advice on painting plastic sailing ship's deck."  I've just moved that thread to page one of the Forum; it should now appear just below this one.

Good luck.  It's a great hobby.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, December 10, 2005 3:04 PM

Here's a website which you guys might find to be heplful:

http://www.jotika-ltd.com/Pages/1024768/Victory_06.htm

What I would do for a kit like that.....

what a beast...takes the breath away

*note-1805

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, December 10, 2005 3:26 PM

Also see:

http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=41&Itemid=44

Color scheming information- ex: remember to paint gun muzzles red

*note- Victory during 1805

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, December 10, 2005 6:14 PM
Yeah I don't think I'm going to paint my gun muzzles red ochre. I don't recall any of the period paintings referring to red gun muzzles unless they meant they were glowing red from excessive firing. The tompions could very well have been red, but the kit doesn't include them so there's no need.

I've gotta pick up a new fine pine vise bit, I broke mine yesterday working on drilling out every gun port's support chain hole. I plan on using black thread instead of the wire for the gun port lids and want to anchor it in the hull rather than on the hull. I'm guessing the best method for securing lines like this would be to pull the knot close to the hull and use a tiny drop of CA to secure it? Then paint over it or file it down if it needs it?

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, December 10, 2005 6:33 PM

Ideas anyone for how to create rigging for the ship's cannons?

Thanks

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, December 10, 2005 9:14 PM

Re gun muzzle colors - There's certainly room for a little variety here; I'm sure not all ships painted their guns identically.  But there's plenty of evidence, in the form of contemporary paintings and models, that red muzzles were quite common.  Some old models, in fact, show red paint on the whole barrel back as far as the first molding.  The Victory currently has red muzzles.  The people in charge of her probably had good reason to paint them that way; those folks know what they're doing.  But I'm not aware of any evidence that black muzzles would actually be wrong.

Re gun rigging - the rigging of a typical long gun (the carronade is a little different) falls into two categories.  The breeching line was an extremely heavy rope that ran either around the cascabel (the ball at the breech end of the barrel) or through a heavy iron ring cast on top of the cascabel.  The ends of the breeching were seized to heavy eyebolts in the ship's side.  The purpose of the breeching was to stop the gun from recoiling through the other side of the ship, and more generally to keep it in position.  (Without the breeching the notorious "loose cannon on the gundeck" phenomenon would take place.)

The other category of gun rigging consisted of the block and tackle used to run the gun in and out, and to train it horizontally. Generally there were three such tackles:  one on the right side, one on the left, and one behind the gun.  They ran from eyebolts in the carriage to eyebolts in the bulwarks (for the side tackles) or the deck inboard of the gun.  Each tackle consisted of two blocks (either two singles or a single and a double, depending on the size of the gun).

The breeching was a permanent fixture; in its absence the gun was a dangerous thing.  The tackles weren't necessarily kept set up all the time - particularly the ones hooked to the back end of the carriage.  (They'd be a menace to anybody walking along the length of the deck.)  Lots of modelers omit the tackles; others install the side ones but not the rear ones.  I wouldn't bother with the guns that can only be viewed through the ports, but the ones whose carriages are visible can benefit quite a bit from having at least their breechings rigged.

For a model on this scale those Bluejacket 3/32" blocks would be about right for this job.  The easiest way to install such pieces of gear is to rig them off the model.  Drill the holes for the various eyebolts (any of the reference books we've discussed in this thread will show where they go).  Make the eyebolts out of wire (we've discussed that trick earlier too), and set up a simple jig consisting of headless pins that are the right distance apart, stuck in a piece of wood.  Slip the eyebolts over the pins, and rig the breeching or tackle between them.  Then glue the eyebolts into the holes in the model.  It's kind of time consuming, but makes quite a difference to the finished model's appearance.  And, like so many other aspects of this hobby, the job has a steep but short learning curve.  You'll find that rigging the first set of tackles may take half an hour, but the tenth one will take ten minutes.

Hope this helps a little.  Good luck.

 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:07 AM
Not to mention that in the Heller instruction the bands around the base of the barrel were supposed to be painted yellow ochre. After little though that was right out. I don't think I could handle painting those two bands x104 without going insane. As for painting the muzzles red I think it's going to be one of those debates like the entry ports.

I had been planning on rigging the breeching for all the upper gun deck guns. I don't think I'll go as far as rigging the blocks on the hull for running the gun out though. I plan on putting at least two guns on the weather deck somewhere and I may very likely rig those fully to the best of my ability.

I had also toyed with cutting open the two bow chaser ports and putting a pair of 24s up there. I love chasers, be them bow or stern. The only thing keeping me from doing so is proper skill at cutting out something like that. Once cut out I could sand off the "hinges" that are on there and make new ones from sheet stock easily enough. Would you just use a fine pin vise bit in the four corners and then use some sort of coarse wire to cut between them, or do you gradually score it right through?

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:37 AM

I can't imagine what Heller was talking about regarding yellow stripes on gun barrels.  I've never heard of such a thing.

I'm not sure about the bow ports, but I think the openings in question may be bridle ports - for handling anchor gear, rather than guns.  It would be a good idea to take a look at a good set of plans for the area of the deck in question.  Heller - quite understandably - didn't include many of the fixtures on the lower decks.  There may or may not have been room behind those ports to handle guns.

On my last warship model, the frigate Hancock, I only put the side tackles on the guns that were visible on the finished model - i.e., those on the quarterdeck, on the forecastle, and in the waist. I omitted all the rear tackles; they'd trip anybody trying to transit the deck, and I thought the model was sufficiently cluttered without them.  For the maindeck guns under the quarterdeck and forecastle I didn't even bother putting wheels on the carriages.  The barrels sit on simplified styrene "carriages" that look fine through the gunports, but otherwise serve just to hold the barrels in the right places.

I suspect all Victory builders will discover sooner or later that rigging lines have an amazing ability to get hung up on protruding gun muzzles and, when yanked vigorously, to dismount guns entirely.  It's relatively easy to slide a barrel back through a port and into its place on its carriage, but not so easy to glue a carriage back down onto the lower deck.  Moral:  be sure the carriages of the lower deck gus are firmly - and I mean firmly - stuck to the decks.  They won't be visible on the finished model; epoxy, superglue, bolts and nuts, rivets, or any other fixing devices will be appropriate.  Don't be so determined to fasten the barrels irrevocably to the carriages.  If you do snag one of them on an errant rigging line, better for the barrel to come loose than for it to break.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, December 11, 2005 3:48 PM
 jtilley wrote:

I suspect all Victory builders will discover sooner or later that rigging lines have an amazing ability to get hung up on protruding gun muzzles and, when yanked vigorously, to dismount guns entirely.  It's relatively easy to slide a barrel back through a port and into its place on its carriage, but not so easy to glue a carriage back down onto the lower deck.  Moral:  be sure the carriages of the lower deck gus are firmly - and I mean firmly - stuck to the decks.  They won't be visible on the finished model; epoxy, superglue, bolts and nuts, rivets, or any other fixing devices will be appropriate.  Don't be so determined to fasten the barrels irrevocably to the carriages.  If you do snag one of them on an errant rigging line, better for the barrel to come loose than for it to break.

 

Too late, too late the fair maiden cried!

I have now stuck, or should I say re-stuck about seven guns! I'll know next time

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Chuck Fan on Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:44 PM
 jtilley wrote:

The breeching was a permanent fixture; in its absence the gun was a dangerous thing.  The tackles weren't necessarily kept set up all the time - particularly the ones hooked to the back end of the carriage. 




Actually, side (training) tackles are always set up.   Otherwise the gun would still be able to coast freely between the port sill and the limit of the breaching.    In fact, the hooks on the side tackles are normally stopped with a mouse hitch to prevent their easy removal.   If a model depicts a ship with breeching rope but no side tackles, it would be an omission, not a representation of any real-life configuration.

The only exception would be some guns situated in smaller cabins that would normally be boused sideways, their barrels parallel to the axis of the ship, to save space when not in use.  When those guns are stowed, their training tackles are removed.

So on the victory, all the guns would would have their side tackles mounted all the time whether the guns are run in, run out, or boused up.   The only exception are the 2 quarter deck guns that normally occupy the master's and the secretary's cabins are either side of the wheel, and perhaps a few aftermost guns on the middle deck, which occupies Lieutenant's cabins.  Those guns would be bound  against the ship's side and be turned around to face the front when not in use.  They would not have training tackles when not in use.



    
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, December 12, 2005 1:31 PM
It would indeed be unusual for the side tackles to be unrigged.  But lots of models - including contemporary ones - don't include them.  The breeching lines, on the other hand, are almost always present.  They're also considerably easier to rig than train tackles.  My suggestion would be to include the breechings if at all possible; the guns look dangerous in their absence.  As to the train tackles - well, I think that (like everything else) is best left up to the individual modeler.  I certainly wouldn't bother with them on guns that aren't in exposed positions.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 12, 2005 8:53 PM

Here's a link to HMS Victory footage, just in case you're interested.

http://www.hmsvictory.ngfl.gov.uk/victory/index.cfm?p=activity&la=3&id=715

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 12, 2005 8:57 PM
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Harrisburg, PA
Posted by Lufbery on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 10:10 AM
 jtilley wrote:
It would indeed be unusual for the side tackles to be unrigged.  But lots of models - including contemporary ones - don't include them.  The breeching lines, on the other hand, are almost always present.  They're also considerably easier to rig than train tackles.  My suggestion would be to include the breechings if at all possible; the guns look dangerous in their absence.  As to the train tackles - well, I think that (like everything else) is best left up to the individual modeler.


What you describe is exactly what Clay Feldman suggests for the cannons on the Brig Lexington model for which he's leading a practicum. Details on the cannon rigging can be found here:

http://www.briglex.org/ChapterSix/Ch6ConstTips.htm

Regards,

-Drew

Build what you like; like what you build.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:51 PM

I'm having a bit of a dilema regarding the painting of the stern gallery-the tamiya  gold-leaf acrylic which I am using is far from the actual color of this part of the ship in real life. This particular color gives off too much "sparkle". Which manufacturer do you think makes the best paint for the job? Also, would using tamiya flat yellow and black be too dull for the ship's main paint scheme on the sides, or does it really matter?

-Thanks a lot!

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:29 PM

Lufberry - That's one of the more ingenious ideas I've seen in a long time.  Dr. Feldman knows what he's doing; his Lexington practicum will, I hope, strip back a great deal of the nonsense that's been written about that interesting ship over the years.

On the other hand, I have to say that actually rigging 32 gun tackles doesn't really take long - if you do it in one, systematic batch.  My guess is that, once you've got the blocks ready to go, you can do at least that many in one evening.  As usual, the first one will take at least five times as long as the last, but once you get in the groove the job goes pretty fast.

Modelbauer 14 - The real Victory actually has remarkably little gold paint on her.  (When she was built she presumably had a great deal more, but by 1805 - the configuration the Heller kit represents - gold leaf was almost out of fashion.)  Some of the details on the figurehead and the heraldic carvings at the top of the transom are gold.  (If I remember right, that includes the heads of the arrows, the bands around the relief-carved cannon barrels, and maybe some of the details on the Prince of Wales' feathers.  That's about it.)  So are some of the carvings under the canopies of the entry ports, which Heller omitted.  (I'm inclined to think Heller was right - but let's not get into that one again.)  The window frames, pilasters, human figures, and other carvings on the transom and quarter galleries are in fact yellow on a black background. 

Here's a link to the ship's website, which describes the color scheme:

www.hms-victory.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id-41&Itemid=44

If you click on that link you may initially be told you don't have access to the page.  Click on "Model Makers" on the left side of the page, under "Main Menu," and the page for modelers will come up.  Click on "Colour Scheme."

There's some room for interpretation and taste regarding the "dull yellow ochre."  The general consensus seems to be that it was an extremely dull, slightly brownish, medium yellow.  The Tamiya shade probably is, if anything, a bit on the bright side.  But there were no official rules regarding paint in those days.  If you play around with the ship's website a little you'll find lots of photos.  My suggestion is to give them a look as sources of inspiration, and combine that with your own judgment.

In any case, I suspect those little spots of gold won't be much of a distraction on the finished model - regardless of the brand of gold paint.

Hope this helps a little.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS
FREE NEWSLETTER
By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy.