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HMS Victory build

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:52 PM
I'll give out my secret for my yellow ochre if you want to get the "sad, yellow colour" that describes the color in its day. I started with a large jar (23ml) of Tamiya dark yellow (XF-60) and added about one pipette full up to the bulb of Tamiya flat yellow (XF-3). I thought the dark yellow color just a bit too brown when I first started using it. Now it's more of a barely-yellowish tan. That's just my taste though, I think the straight yellows (or "sunflower" yellow) are just too darn bright.

I did use the Tamiya gold leaf for the gold leaf work. I think the small jar will last me the ship since it only takes two brush coats to get good cover over any color.

The one color that I wasn't too confident about was red ochre. It calls for bright red and even the paint comparison chart pointed to a bright red Tamiya which just seems too bright and cheery in contrast to my sad yellow. Who knows, maybe red ochre (being one of the cheapest of paints in the day) was that bright. Fortunately on the interior of the ship I put down a layer of very diluted black with the airbrush so that the red (and greenish white) interior has some variance and it came out rather well. I'm going to have to use the same method to go over the gun decks themselves as that bright red on the white plastic is nigh luminescent.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:50 PM

Researchers have done a bit of rethinking in recent years about the red paint on British (and other) sailing warships.  Old legend had it that the red paint was intended to camouflage blood stains.  Modern thinking is that the stuff was simply a good, durable color that was used to protect surfaces (accept those that were to be walked on, or painted another color for some other specific reason) from the weather. 

Most of the old contemporary models I've seen use a bright, bang-on-the-back-of-your-eyeballs red.  It's possible, though, that those modelers were using artists' colors rather than the paints that were used on the real ships. 

The Victory' s website uses the term "dull, matt red ochre."  "Dull" in this case may just refer to the finish  ("dull" as opposed to "glossy").  But if the photos on the website are any guide, "dull" is a good way to describe the color as well.  It appears to be a medium, somewhat brownish red - not bright at all.

As I mentioned earlier, there were no official rules about paint colors in those days.  Even if the original paint was pretty bright, red paint fades faster than any other color.  Combine the effects of age, light, rain, and saltwater, and you can justify just about any shade of red you like.  For what little it's worth, I've built several warship models over the past thirty years on which I used bright red for the internal works, but if I were doing one today I'd use a much toned-down, brownish red.  My suggestion is:  if you don't like the red you've got, feel free to change it.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 3:36 PM

Vapochilled- took a peek at some of your website pics....pretty awesome. I was wondering- how did you make that deck look so  darn good? Did you use any oils, etc?

Danke Sehr! 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 3:56 PM

See now I was not at all happy with the way they turned out the first time, so I stripped and resprayed, still not happy. But what I think happened was by accident, the first attempt stuck between the planks and has given it a better look,lol

All by accident, but still not perfect.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 6:07 PM

In my opinion, this is a good red (red ochre) :

http://www.ancre.fr/ModHist/ModHist_2.htm

Michel

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 15, 2005 6:01 PM

Dear Mr Vapochilled and his HMS Victory modelling friends.

Could I please bring to your attention to my website: http://www.hms-victory-build.co.uk which I named before seeing this forum!!

 This is my website forum address: http://www.chumster.co.uk/forum/index.php?mforum=bobbie 
I would love you all to stop by for a visit and a chat..............

My very best regards,
Pete Coleman.
England.Big Smile [:D]

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 15, 2005 6:25 PM

Just had a look over that site, there are some nice looking models in there, just makes mine look silly actualyBlush [:I]

It's getting quite painfull everytime I view another victory as they all seem to be so much better built and painted.

Would be nice if I could view the images in greater size but I'm not sure if the site lets you do that, maybe just my firewall.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 30, 2005 6:31 PM

This was posted on another site, and is not in English but it does have some great shots, anyone building this ship would do well to have a look over these as the level of detail is mind blowing.

JT in particular, I'd like to hear your comments on this one, the rigging to me looks simply stunning.

http://homepage3.nifty.com/shiphome/victory-page.htm

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, December 30, 2005 9:20 PM

I don't read Japanese, but the photos are enough to establish that this is a beautiful model.  It's also enormous.  On the basis of the metric dimensions (165 cm long, minus the jibboom and flying jibboom), I figure it must be on 1/32 scale or thereabouts.

It contains some really subtle details that elude most modelers of the ship.  This is the only Victory model I've encountered, for instance, that shows the distinction between the rows of windows in the transom.  (The windows in the top two rows have hinges.  Those in the bottom row have sliding sashes.) 

The rigging is indeed beautiful.  The modelers notes that he found it easy to make the rope sag realistically, simply because it's so big.  He also says that the sheer overall size of the model is going to keep him from installing the rest of the spars.  That is indeed a shame.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 30, 2005 10:15 PM
 jtilley wrote:

I don't read Japanese, but the photos are enough to establish that this is a beautiful model.  It's also enormous.  On the basis of the metric dimensions (165 cm long, minus the jibboom and flying jibboom), I figure it must be on 1/32 scale or thereabouts.

It contains some really subtle details that elude most modelers of the ship.  This is the only Victory model I've encountered, for instance, that shows the distinction between the rows of windows in the transom.  (The windows in the top two rows have hinges.  Those in the bottom row have sliding sashes.) 

The rigging is indeed beautiful.  The modelers notes that he found it easy to make the rope sag realistically, simply because it's so big.  He also says that the sheer overall size of the model is going to keep him from installing the rest of the spars.  That is indeed a shame.

 

Just found referance to scale, she built to 1/48, that's a big girl!

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Chuck Fan on Friday, December 30, 2005 11:59 PM
 jtilley wrote:

Researchers have done a bit of rethinking in recent years about the red paint on British (and other) sailing warships. .....




The red color paint continues to be used for the cable tier of warships long after its use has been abandoned on other interior surface of warships.   It seem unlikely that the cable tier needed extra camoufalge against blood.   In anycase, deck is where most blood would end up, and there was no evidence that the deck was ever painted red.    I read somewhere that red of simply the natural color of the cheapest common water proof, hardwearing paint.  
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 4:54 PM
My girlfriend got me the Longridge book for Christmas from a used book store. All the drawings are intact but I didn't want to keep folding them in and out as I needed them so I took it to work and copied the foldouts onto heavy paper. She also ordered the McKay "100-gun Ship Victory" from Amazon that I should be receiving shortly. Unfortunately I'm putting it up in dry-dock until spring since I can't do any airbrushing here in the winter. I'm still going through piece by piece to get anything painted by brush as I can. I'm feeling a lot more confident about the rigging with all the extremely detailed illustrations and text in the Longridge book. My only concern now lies with the sails and what to do with them. I'm thinking the vac-form ones may not look so bad once I airbrush them with a convincing canvas color. Ideally I'd like to only put out the tops'ls and t'gallants and have the main and courses furled as if for battle. I don't even know if I want to bother with stays.

I need to put forth my huge recommendation for the Longridge book. I don't think you'll find a more useful resource for building a model of the Victory, or any ship-rigged vessel, anywhere. The only thing better would be to live near Portsmouth and have the Longridge book. Even skimming through parts of it relevant to where I'm at with my model now made me feel much more at ease that I'm doing things right.

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Chuck Fan on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 5:04 PM
I personally think sailing ships models look more impressive with sails furled.   





  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 9, 2006 1:42 AM

Just added a thread in the tecniques section for a quick and dirty ropewalk:

http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/571328/ShowPost.aspx

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 5:53 PM

Where or what do you use for the ratlines? given that at this scale, I'm looking for a thread thats 0.1mm in Dia!

I know I could use thin wire for this, but I also want to produce lines in the 0.5mm range so need the fine thread for the ropewalk. (the electric shaver ropewalk is working so well, I can't believe it!)

So, 0.1mm thread, anyone?

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:10 PM
I have started on Heller's HMS Victory but do not intend to rig it with sails.  So can I assume that standing rigging is all that I would need to worry about or should the running rigging be attached?  The instructions assume the plastic sheets will be used.
  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: The green shires of England
Posted by GeorgeW on Thursday, March 16, 2006 2:22 PM

You could just rig the standing rigging but that in my opinion would be a shame. It is usual even on ships without sails bent to show a fair amount of running rigging - braces, lifts, clues, tacks, etc.

I would suggest you obtain one or both of two books on the subject:-

The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships - C.N. Longridge

The 100 Gun Ship Victory - John MacKay.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 17, 2007 2:36 PM
how do you post images i really cant get it ???please help me sumone.
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