Any one brave enough for 1/72 gato interior build?

Not a frequent visitor to this forum, but after a visit to the sub museum in Groton and having just finished Flukey's "Thunder Below", I am curious if any of you have gotten into this project since the kit has been released??  I have a desire to try my hand at the Barb, but am thinking the Trumpeter 1/144 kit might be a bit better scale to start...

I've found a new source of info on subs, both diesels and nukes. Periscope Film. They the same guys that sell "The fleet Submarine" (a reproduction of Navpers 16160).

I just got six of their submarine DVDs. I've only watch two of them, so far. Good stuff! Some of the stuff, I've seen before, but not since the late sixties, at New London Sub School. The reproductions are as sharp and clear as I remember the originals, being. And a lot better than most of the stuff you see on TV. Also, for the most part, the narration is accurate. (No pictures of Barham blowing up, while narrating the Battle of Midway.) Although,I have to admit, in several of the Navy Dept films, the narrator had no idea what, he was talking about. These guys have reproduced the films exactly as they were made. And at a better level of quality, than I've come to expect from that TV channel that specializes in them..

There are some seldom (or never seen) shots. Like the one of the cook, choking the Main Induction, during a dive.

As for their book, "The Fleet Submarine", I agree, the lack of color drawings and full size fold outs, is a draw back. But it's easily remedied. And, for the price, you're still getting a good deal. Unless you have a museum boat near you, where you can go aboard and take pictures, the book is a must have, to do an interior. And, the museum boat won't tell you how it's all tied together. Just where individual components are.

As a side note, they don't have, just, submarine stuff. Check it out at www.periscopefilm.com .

Mike K.

Ahoy there, Big Jim

  I had the exact same sub kit, and, it did have spring loaded polaris missles. Mine was the deluxe version with glow in the dark bulkheads, you know that freaky green plastic ala godzilla model. That was way back in the groovy 60's.

  As far as having a lot of time on my hands is a bit of a misnomer as i expect this project could take a year or two-pecking away at it.

  Thanks for the great link, all interior pics are enthusiastically welcome. Thanks again for your input..

  Regards, MacLeod

Mac,
   When I was younger, one of the neat models was the George Washington SSBN with interior. I had one then and I think that I have one on the shelf downstairs somewhere. Of course, now I know that it wasn't very accurate, but still it was neat back then...even fired a Polaris missile.
   I'm not planning an interior to my Fleet Sub, just way too much work to do. But you guys with more time than I have, go for it. That was one reason that I posted the link to my pictures of the inside of the U.S.S. Ling (see previous page). Maybe they will be of some help to the modelers out there.

  Hey BigJim & Peterj-Aloha

  Are you guys researching the potential of a (should I say it)... Gato interior? I love it! It's good to know there are other demented souls gracing these forums. Seriously though, I'm more than estatic about trading ideas & sharing resources with any of you guys planning to undertake a similar project.

  I was surprised to learn there isn't an  A.O.T.S. Gato book available. However, many people have posted great info sources on this thread, and, I'm sure more is to follow, not to mention the collective talent & knowledge of these guys.

  I'm hoping to find a cd-rom similar to what has been made for the type VII, essentially a photo mosaic of the interior, and, a deck plane for rib placements etc. I suspect it'll end up being an olio of different sources, and, I'll end up with a fleet boat library as good as the type VII library I've amassed.

  Good talking to you guys. Cheers, Macleod

" Be pompus, obese, and, eat cactus

Be critical, meddling, and, rude

Criticize things you don't know about

Sit in a swamp, and, be three dimensional".....Steve Martin

Sorry about that.  The text was correct, but the link was the same as the second one.  I've fixed it now.

To download a page, right-click it and Save As. 

Peter

Peter,
Using your link, the only that I could find is where to buy the CD. Couldn't find where to download pages.

mkeatingss wrote:

For real interior detail, you'll need Periscope Films' "The Fleet Submarine". Fair warning, however, if you try to match "The Fleet Submarine" details, you may finish, your model, in your friendly, local, funny farm.

I just wandered into the thread, and found the reference to Periscope Films' scanned reprint of the Fleet Submarine.  My advice is to stay away from it.  The scanning and printing are very poor quality, IMHO.  On top of that, the color cutaways are not included, and have to be bought separately.  I bought a copy from amazon, and returned it.

The good news is that the manual is available online for free, here:

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/index.htm

The pages can be downloaded one at a time, including the color cutaways.

If you want a copy on CD, it's here:

http://www.history-on-cdrom.com/id136.htm

Peter

  Yeah boy!  I like that, lean on the Rokket man a little, the possiblities are endless! After all he's got the evil acid etching lab, and, he really has produced some terrific stuff. That boy really does suffer from chronic A.M.S.(advanced modeler syndrome), I became infected while visiting the isolation ward.

  I guess I'd have to suggest that he make P.E. expanded steel floor plates, or, maybe even water-tight hatch jambs! I really do need to shut-up now!!!!

  Here's a little info for Rokket-I believe those unidentified post like structures visible in the free flooding areas(above saddle bunkers) of his type VII are what can be seen of inspection hatches. I've seen some photos taken from beneath the aft deck looking towards the conning tower pressure hull, and, there are similar looking structures which are described as inspection hatches. I believe these pics are from the captured u-boat reflagged as HMS Graph.

  Theoretically speaking, it might be faster building a cutaway as a schitzophrenic. Each one of me could build a different compartment.

  Good talkin at you again. Regards, Mac

"He's attacking the zerstroyer! Crazy in zis veather"

Opps! Almost forgot. You can get hold of Rokket over at Wink's Gato site << http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?PHPSESSID=605ba04a9144adb4097e6eeef9261023; >> It's another of my favorite submarine model sites.

Mike K.

As the schizophrenic said, when he escaped from the asylum, "Split up, guys, they can't catch us all."

I'm sorry to say, there is no AOTS for the US Fleet Boat (Gato, Balao, Tench). Which is a bit strange, since AOTS is published by the US Naval Institute.

However there is a source of Sub books, Torpedo Junction (<< http://www.sonic.net/~books/ >>). But, beware!! You could be overwhelmed by the sheer volume. We won't even talk about what it could do to your bank account.

For general info, online, here and the SubCommittee are amoung your best sources. For hard copy, use "Floating Drydock" and "Torpedo Junction". And, for detailed pieces, lean on your contryman, Rokket. He makes some really nice P/E stuff, for the U-Boot. And is working on Gato stuff.

Let him know that you need some outer door shutters (heh, heh), valve handles and levers, etc.

Oh! Hi, Rokket, we were just talking about you.

Mike K.

   G-day Mike K

  Yeah, but, it'll be one of the coolest psychotic episodes I've ever had!

  Roses are red, and, violets are blue. I'm schizophrenic, and, so am I.

  But, on a more serious note, your point is well taken in regards to procuring some comprehensive schematics, and, your suggestions of research materials are very welcome indeed. I bought the Anatomy of a type VII book which is being inestimably useful in my current evil project. Is there any such counterpart for the venerable Gato? I'd be surprised if there wasn't.

  As well as being a cabinet maker, I'm a draftsman & estimator, and, sometimes architectural model maker, so I have accrued many different scales, callipers,and, conversion tables etc. most of which live on my modeling desk. What I really want to get into is resin casting, home photo-etching(a bold new frontier), and, vacuum forming. I've found some great plans on the net for building very simple yet effective v-forming rigs, and, there are some very reasonably priced photo-etching kits around. I guess the hard part for me would be producing properly reduced negatives as I don't have that type of gear, however any photo lab could do the job (just a bit of a hassle).

  With projects such as naval cut-aways it's all about being able to prototype all the redundant components such as Valves, bunks, instruments, pipe elbows & t's yada yada yada blah blah blah!!#%$&# Oh-oh, time for my morning Prozac!!!!

  There's a posting by Bondoman where he's offering to take photos, and, or measurements of a fleet boat he'll be visiting soon if you happen to be interested. I allready put in my order.

  Your right about pressure hull rib positions, they can get a little screwy. I've got the atlantic boat scaled out pretty well. You'll notice that the ribs in the type VII zentrale compartment are laid out to accomodate the attack periscope well(which is also off center to the longitudinal center-line). So now its time to get my head around all the Gato's quirks. Woops- time for my morning therapy session!

  Thanks again mate!  Fair-dinkum, MacLeod

Distance between frames? Hmmm. Well, that's one of the interesting things about subs. It varies. On a Tench Class (my favorites) it's 24" in the fore and aft torpedo rooms, and 30" in the control room.

If you're doing a cut away, you must have both the "Docking Plan" (choice of 1:96 or 1:48 scale) and the "Booklet of Ships Plans" (1:96 scale). At least, for the Class. If possible (but not absolutly necessary), for the individual boat. Once again, Floating Drydock is your friend. And, possibly. the only source for these.

 And you'd be well advised to get one of C.T.T's Scale Rules, in the same scale(s) as your drawings and another in 1:72 Scale. The aggrivation saved there, cannot be over-estimated.

For real interior detail, you'll need Periscope Films' "The Fleet Submarine". Fair warning, however, if you try to match "The Fleet Submarine" details, you may finish, your model, in your friendly, local, funny farm.

Boy! This cutaway model is going to be a real boon for the psychiatric community. And now, our wives, can, not only say "He's Nuts!", they can prove it.

Why does the old song "Their coming to take me away" keep runnng through my head?

Mike K.

96th BG 338th SQ wrote:

P.S. Do you operate a hobby shop?

No. I use to manage one, but now I make paint. See my website.

Go to the web site below to see my pictures of the U.S.S. Ling.

http://subcommittee.com/SubComm/photos_show.cfm?CID=224

   Cheers Hawkeye

   I've begun to read and collect Gato material for this project. I have a tremendous library on u-boats and really appreciate suggestions toward fleet boat material. I shall track down a copy of thunder below.

  As you can probably ascertain, I've recently finished reading wake of the Wahoo. While it's not a technically laden book, it gives a great insight into life aboard a Gato during  war patrols.

  I grew up 2 miles from lake Michigan during the 60's and there were still commisioned gato boats around. My father was able to get me aboard one that was in port, though mostly I remember dirty laundry tied up in bed sheets clogging up passages, I was very young. Mostly I remember visiting U-505 across the pond in Chicago, a trip my father and I would make semi annually-no doubt the beginings of a life long fascination with submarines.

  Thanks for your input Hawkeye, always great to meet new folks.

  Regards, MacLeod

P.S. Do you operate a hobby shop?

For those of you who might need a little inspiration before tackling your Gato build, check out this book:

"Thunder Below" by Rear Admiral Eugene B. Fluckey (USS Barb)

I really enjoyed this the first time I read it, just dug it out again while I consider getting a Gato kit. 

   Howdy Rokket @ Mike

  You inadvertently answered one of my pressing Q's. While visiting the official USS Wahoo page (my chosen subject matter) I came across some photos of wahoo in various stages of completion, I.E. tank frames being attached to the pressure hull sections and, wondered if there were interior P.H. ribs corresponding to the exterior frame locations. 2nd musing, are the ribs @ 2-0 ft. on center? I know that the u-boats "while being metric" scale out very nearly to 2-0 O.C. Interior pix of compartments gives little evidence of rib installations as they were largely sheathed and, covered in a thin layer of cork to inhibit condensation. In Forest J Sterling's (yeoman) book, wake of the wahoo, he describes how during depth charge attacks chunks of cork would rain down from the cieling.

  Interestingly, Destination Tokyo starring Gregory Peck was loosely based on Wahoos war patrols and LT. CMDR Mush Morton respectively.

  Mike, your hull prep techniques are of great help in getting around the planning stage of this project. Ya know, planning & research are as much of an enjoyment as building. Being that I want to build a port side cutaway of the Type VII & Gato, I think it'll be considerably easier to scratch build the high & low pressure manifold and, valves of the fleet boat as it has alot of levers as opposed to the u-boats exclusive use of various sized hand valves. The gato also has valves but are typically a much simpler type to fabricate. I built a Type VII high & low pressure manifold in 1/125th, the optomitrist says I should regain my eyesight in a month or two..

  A passing notion that I somtimes entertain is a 1/72 Gato group build. Someone could be responsible for prepping the hull and the installation of completed compartments. Other craftsmen could build one or two of the compartments etc. all under an agreed upon set of specifications and, one individual being delegated as forman (for lack of a better term) who could distribute templates and, oversee final assembly. What a cool online build site that could be. Has anyone else suffered with this type of temporary insanity?

  They've recently located the wreck of Wahoo off the coast of Japan and, There are dive pix floating around on the net. If you havn't visited the uss Wahoo site yet you may find it interesting. I've surfed around looking for CMK's allusive new compartments but, have found no pix yet. However I did find some great Yeti photos and Elvis's space baby pics.

  As always I appreciate your knowledge and expertise!

 Regards, Macleod

First up - cutting a hole in the hull half can wait till last. But,
probably won't. So there are a few things to keep in mind, before you start cutting.

One. The bow and stern inserts make excellent fore and aft boundaries for the opening.

Two. the upper (and lower) edge of the cut should be above (and below) the upper (and Lower ) edge in the main hull. (Necessary for good viewing)

Three. Mark off cut lines in pencil. Leave about 1/8 to 1/4 between the initial cut and pencil line. File the remaining plastic, leaving a small amount to do final sanding. And round the final edges To prevent chipping. If you want to be REAL nit-picking, bevel the inside edges to a thin edge to simulate the thin skin on the tank tops. Leave a thicker edge at the hard tank locations (Trim Tanks, Auxiliary Tank, etc.).

Four. Use plastic "T" or "I" beams to simulate tank frames (same location as hull frames). Pressure (interior) hull frames are visible both inside and outside the hull (Capped on both, "I" is best match, but harder). The same plastic, used for fore and aft compartment bulkheads, can be used for tank boundary bulkheads. In most cases, the tank boundaries will be on frames. Substitute a thin piece of plastic strip, in place of "I" or "T" beam. Once again, if real nit-picky, tank boundary bulkheads, with flow through holes at each frame. If you cut the bottom edge, far enough down, you'll be able to see the flood ports, the midship tank dividers and side bulkhead of the Negative tank. And don't forget the holes in all but Negative Tank side and Auxiliary tank divider.

Ahh. I can see from the look on your faces, you now understand where the "deer-in-the-headlights" look comes from.

Now, on to my question. Drooling? I'm Dying! Anybody got anything more on the CMK kits? Pictures? Notes? Release date(s)? Prices? ANYTHING!!! (Note "deer-in-headlights" look.)

Mike K.

You hit the rivet on the head, Mac, we're all desperate to rip open a perfectly good 52" model... where are those cutters?

Keep us posted on yoru project! maybe we can offer help in the preplan stage, tho I think Mike has that well in hand. 

 I know every ones very eager to cut apart a perfectly good and plenty expensive Gato kit and, then get neck deep in scratchbuilt sub machinery etc. Kinda like jumpin out of a perfectly good air plane. Right?

 Seriously though, its readily apparent that I'll have no shortage of expert advice or resources when i finally get this puppy underway. This has been a pretty cool thread thus-far! And are the rumors true? Could there actually be two more CMK compartments for the venerable 1/72 Type VII? Can I stand the pain?

 I'm sure Mike Keating is having a pretty good drool about now. I cant wait to see some more of his compartment work!!!!!

  Thanks to all, MacLeod

YeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

Mike K.

I also highly recommend the Floating Drydock plan book, in fact, all the plan books from this source are superb.  The author may not be prolific, but he is very thorough and exact.    

Dave 

Boy! This looks like one of those threads that just ain't gonna' die. Oh Well!!

First of all, thanks Rokket, but I don't deserve half the credit you give me. And I'm definitely not officer material. I'm just a nasty ol' rag-hat, lookin' to see what kind of trouble I can get into, or cause.

That Navpers 16160 "The Fleet Submarine" is, indeed, the finest source of technical info on the fleet boat available. But, and a big BUT, it's, basically, a Balao. Fairly close to Gato, a bit different from Tench. I'd strongly recommend Floating Drydock's drawings, and CD, for, at least, the class, And the boat, if available. After that check out Kurt Greiner's SeaPhotos for pictures of the boat you want to do. And, of course, Navsource.

For after market, check out "Iron Bottom Sound", "Nautilus Models" and "WEM" (Conning towers, weapons, decks, etc.) [still waiting on CMK for interiors] And, incase you don't know, Iron Bottom sound has limber hole pattern stencils for the Portsmouth boats. Nautilus has stencils for all three classes' (Gato/Balao/Tench) flood ports and valves.

And, if you find yourself with your back against the wall, on a particular piece of info, AND, you're afraid people will laugh at your rivet counting, if you ask here, drop me a line << mkeating at cox.net >>. I've either got it, know somebody who's got it, or know somebody who will know where to get it. Assuming it's out there. If it's not out there, somewhere, I may not be able to help. But it never hurts to ask.

Mike K.

Uhu,

Excellent info! Went to buy the book and a DVD, but having shopping cart troubles. Sure it will be sorted. Curse you for making me spend $$$!!!

In 1946, the US Navy published a 200+ page manual for the Fleet Type submarine, very well illustrated with cutaway views and many illustrations of interior fittings and compartments.  I would say at least 90% of the documentation needed to build a credible cutaway model is contained in this book.  I was lucky to find an original, slightly damaged, on eBay for about $50, but an even better deal is this reprint:

 http://www.periscopefilm.com/book1.html

Even if you don't build the model, its very interesting reference material.  

HTH

Dave

96th - thanks for the kind words. re: Mike, he is DEFINITELY officer material, a storehouse of talent and knowledge.

I really like the beer can idea (and so much more fun to find stock than soda cans!) Impressive use of flashing and your stylus, love to hear about this tuff, great work. Get some pix up, love to see it.

Gato - Floating Drydock has en e-book of gato plans and pix, well worth the $25, and for pix alone,  Warship Pictorial #28 USN Gato Fleet Type Subs is beautiful.

Anxious to hear more.