Dragon 1/350 Buchanan

ps1scw

I wonder if Dragon will come out with more 1/350 figure sets.

I'm pushing for it but so far unsuccessfully. There are a couple of us who think their figures and weapons would sell like hot cakes but for the moment they are happy to keep them an item exclusive to their kits.

Bigger isn't always better.   The old Revell box-scale kits were great when they were new.   Now they are dated as technology has passed them by.   Even with aftermarket detail parts there is a good amount of destruction which must occur before construction can begin.

The Trumpeter 1:350 scale Buckley-class, sold as the USS England is an excellent kit.  It is much better than their USS The Sullivans of the same vintage.   With aftermarket PE it can be made into a stunning piece, without the need to remove much if any molded detail.

Trumpeter worked with PitRoad on this project.  PitRoad has put out a kit of the Cannon-class DE using the Trump England and adding a sprue of Cannon/Edsall-specific details (stack, guns, & tubs).

The Revell kits are good for nostalgia or as a basis for an otherwise non-existant subject.   But there are better, more up-to-date kits available.

Revell has the USS Buckley 1:249 slated for reissue in the 1st half of 2010.

I have this one waiting to kick off as well, it looks great, can't wait to get 10 min next week to open the box again, lol.  BTW I wonder if Dragon will come out with more 1/350 figure sets.

drdull wrote:

Yeah - the Cyber PE for Buchanan was cheap with the pre-order.  I can't believe that they'd ask $86 for it.  Even the $26 seems high for what you get - railings and the pre-shaped fire control radar.  No ladders, no search radar, no depth charge racks, no platforms.  Unless they've added to the original, I'd be tempted to go with the generic DD/DE detail PE that I think is sold by Tom's.

I ordered my Dragon PE set from Sprue Brothers for $12.49. there is one more in their inventory as of last week.

ps1scw wrote:

Not PE, actual plastic, one of the guys actually comes in 2 pieces.  all enlisted w/helmets on.  some skylarking, others manning thier battlestation. If they are serious about entering the 1/350 ship market, I really think that dragon can clean up if there were to issue: "underway watch" "working party" "manning the guns" etc. 1/350 crew members.

I agree. The crew members really look good. This is far superior from the flat etched figures now in the market. They should have a complete generic set we can use for battleships and other surface ships.

Kenny Loup of Gator's masks has two mask sets out; the original did not take the shape of the hull into consideration and when I brought it up he did a new set that sorta does.

The "problem" with Measure 12 Mod was that there were no design sheets, just a written description and "discussion" with a couple of examples. Thus, if you want to do a particular ship you need to find good photographs with both sides. I have this problem with my build of DD-486 Lansdowne; there are good photos of her port side, but none of her starboard and thus I probably will have to guess.

So Gator's masks will only work if you're doing Buchanan. Or you could read the January 2009 issue of FSM that has an article about using silly putty to do measure 12 mod.

EdGrune wrote:

Mansteins revenge wrote: Thanks.  I noticed that there are some finished Dragon Buchanan's also on that website, some with the modified measure 42 camo scheme...does anyone know if there are going to be any AM masks for this measure for this kit available?????? Measure 42?   Do you mean Measure 12 Mod?

Mansteins revenge wrote:

Thanks.  I noticed that there are some finished Dragon Buchanan's also on that website, some with the modified measure 42 camo scheme...does anyone know if there are going to be any AM masks for this measure for this kit available??????

Measure 42?   Do you mean Measure 12 Mod?

Tracy White wrote:

Yes, in 1/240th scale. There was an article in one of the older FSM magazines about building one, but some exist at ModelWarships.com: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dd/de-51/240-sk/buckley-index.html http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dd/de-51/240-ls/buckley-index.html http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dd/de-51/240-bn/bn-index.html  http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dd/de-51/240-cp2/de51-index.html

Yes, in 1/240th scale. There was an article in one of the older FSM magazines about building one, but some exist at ModelWarships.com:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dd/de-51/240-sk/buckley-index.html

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dd/de-51/240-ls/buckley-index.html

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dd/de-51/240-bn/bn-index.html 

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dd/de-51/240-cp2/de51-index.html

Tracy White wrote:

I've been working on my Trumpeter England off an on this week and I'll echo Ed's statement. It's not as good as the Dragon Buchanan, but I think I still would list it as my recommendation for a first ship due to it's cheaper cost and ease of build. The 20mm guns, for example, are way over scale, but would be much easier for a first-time builder to assemble. ModelWarships has one in the gallery as HMS Duff: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/ff/hms/duff-350-ch/ch-index.html SteelNavy has two as well: http://www.steelnavy.com/TrumpDonnellWDK.htm  http://www.steelnavy.com/TrumpEnglandSHP.htm

I've been working on my Trumpeter England off an on this week and I'll echo Ed's statement. It's not as good as the Dragon Buchanan, but I think I still would list it as my recommendation for a first ship due to it's cheaper cost and ease of build. The 20mm guns, for example, are way over scale, but would be much easier for a first-time builder to assemble.

ModelWarships has one in the gallery as HMS Duff:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/ff/hms/duff-350-ch/ch-index.html

SteelNavy has two as well:

http://www.steelnavy.com/TrumpDonnellWDK.htm 

http://www.steelnavy.com/TrumpEnglandSHP.htm 

Trumpeter's USS England is a Buckley-class DE equipped with a Hedgehog.  The Trump England is miles better than their USS The Sullivans.

Iron Shipwright makes a Tacoma-class frigate as the USS Burlington

EdGrune wrote:

Tracy White wrote: Yes, I was aware of that. I was posting Rick's information that no Benson/Gleaves carried the Hedgehog during the war, and that the closest you could come was the Mk 22. And Ted Roscoe states in "US Destroyer Operations in WWII" that NO destroyers were equipped with Hedgehog, and that the equipment was primarily used on PF (frigates) and DE classes.

Tracy White wrote:

Yes, I was aware of that. I was posting Rick's information that no Benson/Gleaves carried the Hedgehog during the war, and that the closest you could come was the Mk 22.

And Ted Roscoe states in "US Destroyer Operations in WWII" that NO destroyers were equipped with Hedgehog, and that the equipment was primarily used on PF (frigates) and DE classes.

yeapjacky wrote:

Jst got mine last week...excited like hell..!!!  Cant wait to get started...and yup, couldnt help myself to post up a pic..~ Hehee...

EdGrune wrote:

Tracy White wrote: The Mk 22 that Rick provided the photos for was not a hedgehog... different device. Much simpler and less effective. Interesting note about the MK22 Mousetrap from navweaps.com  A Mousetrap projector similar to the Mark 20, but with eight rails, organized as four over four.  Fired a pattern of about 80 yards wide (73 m) at a range of about 300 yards (274 m).  100 of these weapons were in service by November 1942.  In addition to smaller craft, twelve Benson (DD-421) class and Gleaves (DD-423) class destroyers were each fitted with three of these projectors on the forecastle forward of the forward 5"/38 mount.  One of these destroyers, USS Turner DD-648, blew up and sank off Ambrose Light (Lower New York Bay) on 3 January 1944, killing 138 crewmen.  The loss was attributed to Mousetrap projectiles with faulty contact fuzes.

Tracy White wrote:

The Mk 22 that Rick provided the photos for was not a hedgehog... different device. Much simpler and less effective.

Interesting note about the MK22 Mousetrap from navweaps.com 

A Mousetrap projector similar to the Mark 20, but with eight rails, organized as four over four.  Fired a pattern of about 80 yards wide (73 m) at a range of about 300 yards (274 m).  100 of these weapons were in service by November 1942.  In addition to smaller craft, twelve Benson (DD-421) class and Gleaves (DD-423) class destroyers were each fitted with three of these projectors on the forecastle forward of the forward 5"/38 mount.  One of these destroyers, USS Turner DD-648, blew up and sank off Ambrose Light (Lower New York Bay) on 3 January 1944, killing 138 crewmen.  The loss was attributed to Mousetrap projectiles with faulty contact fuzes.

Jst got mine last week...excited like hell..!!!  Cant wait to get started...and yup, couldnt help myself to post up a pic..~ Hehee...

Awesome pics, Tracy---thanks a bunch.  That set-up looks a little different than the traditional hedgehog device I've seen on DE's, which is more like a box bristing with the warheads...but it does prove some devices were at least trialed on DD's...

By the way, finally got my Buchanan this Sat and I was blown away by the kit !!! I can only pray Dragon wil produce more classes of Destroyers, hopefully even crossing over to British, Japanese and German types !!! 

This comes from a friend of mine who has been doing a TON of research in the archives about these and other classes of destroyers:

Rick E. Davis wrote:

As far as I know, the Benson-Gleaves units did not get Hedge-hogs during WWII.  The DE's and some of the Flush-deckers had hedge-hogs.  There was discussion about adding HH to Benson-Gleaves units in Friedman's destroyer book (and/or Reilly's), but the powers-to-be didn't like the idea.  However, twelve units (DD 493, 609*, 620, 622, 623, 635*, 637*-639*, and 646-648) DID get three Mk 22 ASW Rocket "Mousetrap" systems installed on the forecastle in late 1943.  It didn't last long, they were mounted fixed and were a bear to train for firing by pointing the ship. Only the five ships I have put an "*" on are the round-bridge type ... the rest were square bridge units. If I remember right the DMS units recommissioned/in use during the 1950's did get hedge-hogs like the Fletchers (Sumners, Gearings).  Also, some of the FMS units were updated with them as well. Here are three views I pulled up quickly that show the "Mousetrap" installation.  If you want to post one or all on the Finescale forum, go ahead.  I think I have posted some of these on Modelwarships.org.  I know that if I was a crew member on one of the ships firing these things ... I would want to be somewhere else.

My own comments: note that they were collapsible, but not trainable. Note the blast shield visible on deck behind them when folded down 

Tracy White wrote:

EdGrune wrote: During the war the Navy increased the AA armament, often to the detriment of the ASW and ASuW armament.  Post-war, on DDE modifications, I think you will find that Hedgehog  replaced the 40mm guns on the forward deckhouse aft of the 52 mount. This was largely dependant upon theater; ships serving in the atlantic didn't have the same amount of AA upgrades that the pacific theater did. But I would agree that few, if any of the B/Gs received hedge hogs during the war. There may have been a couple, however.

EdGrune wrote:

During the war the Navy increased the AA armament, often to the detriment of the ASW and ASuW armament.  Post-war, on DDE modifications, I think you will find that Hedgehog  replaced the 40mm guns on the forward deckhouse aft of the 52 mount.

This was largely dependant upon theater; ships serving in the atlantic didn't have the same amount of AA upgrades that the pacific theater did. But I would agree that few, if any of the B/Gs received hedge hogs during the war. There may have been a couple, however. 

it has the W shaped screen, five braces (IIRC) and a rod to go through the braces.