Why is space so unpopular!!!

schoonerbumm offers excellent reasons for why space is so neglected, not only in our hobby but in general public consciousness.

With regard to making our space models more personal, it is possible to include non-modeling items on, for instance, our display bases. There are special philatelic covers produced for nearly every flight of any sort. Most are simply "handbacks" (canceled by a postal clerk at the launch site, then handed back to the mailer).

But there are items which have actually flown, from early rocket flights of the 1930's to one Challenger flight in 1983. Here's a picture of one of those flown covers:

http://www.mostlyclassics.net/images/13098.jpg

These run $25.00-30.00, pretty cheap for something which actually orbited the earth.

How about a shuttle model of the Challenger, with or without SRB's and external tank, with one of those covers occupying part of the model's base?

There are also covers which flew on Apollo missions. They are awfully expensive, since they were unauthorized and illegal, but there are good color reproductions available.

Wow, it's good to wander off the other forums and take a look around...

  First the question poised is a great one; second the replies to the question are most excellent and well thought out. As to why space isn't more appealing to the masses and model builders...I worked in a hobby shop for a few years and a lot of the "regular" customers had a great interest in space, the ISS and the shuttle program, especially Space Ship one. These guys built military models, cars, and scratch builds but they were "closet space enthusiests"...it was pointed out that you can only build so many shuttle models as opposed to tanks, planes etc. Plus the enjoyment of a shuttle build (to me) would be the accrutraments, the launch tower, assembly, crawler, a possible diorama build. If my memory serves me, Revell offered the shuttle launch assembly ONCE!!, and just building the shuttle by itself is not all that exciting, i.e. the model doesn't offer a lot of detail, similar to the lack of detail of a sub model. Renwal and Revell at least had the right idea to improve the appeal of the sub model by offering a cutaway polaris sub and I'm sure they sold well. In fact Revell's model caused quite a controversy as it "appeared" to have given up the "Top Secret" sub to the world. I'm sure the controversy helped sell models!  Why doesn't Revell offer the Shuttle "Launch Facility" model again, did it sell that poorly?  

Another fact that wasn't  touched on was that missiles and rocket kits didn't sell well, even in the hay-day of the fledgling space program. Most companies like Revell, Monogram and Aurora offered them in their catalog in the late 1950's and were withdrawn after 2 years. This short term model production created a collectors market, ever see how much Revell's Space Station or Moon Rocket go for on that famous on line auction? Revell did offer the History Series models in the early 80's, some of which were rockets and missiles but were only available for a short time. (they also need to re-issue the atomic cannon, I missed that one) So building and acquiring a "Space collection" is spotty at best, new generations who develop an interest in all things space and desire a collection of early space rockets are pretty much out of luck. But at least Glencoe has kept the "dream" alive with it's re-issues of what-the-future-of-space will be models. To me these models were a lot more "fun" than the models of the current space shuttle, at least they were all different. Perhaps a desire to capture the "rush/excitement" of the early space program will keep re-kindle some interest in space models.  The Vanguard rocket , the Space lab, the Sputnik satellite, are part of our space and modeling past, it would be great to see them issued again. And if issued I hope they manufacture more units than the Revell Jupiter C re-Issue, I can't locate one anywhere...   Regards

Mike,  Astronaut wannabe

 Any similarity between the actual spelling of words and mine is purely coincidental 

This is the reason I like card models...

Card models offered me a chance to model space subjects that I would never hope to appear on plastic... or if they have it in plastic, I could never hope of buying them because of their high price, or their scarce availability in our place...

At first I could only hope of having one model, but now, I can build anything from mercury to STS, Vostok to Buran, Salyut to ISS (and in large scales to, like 1/96, 1/100, even 1/50)

I agree. There really isn't a good "detailed" space model out there. Revell made a 1/32 apollo csm at one point I believe. I was rather young and my brother had built it, but it did have a cut away feture that captured my curiosity.  I would Love to see something along the lines of a cut a way Shuttle flight deck, or perhaps a Soyuz TMA, and even one of certain parts of the ISS.The possibilities are endless.

Aftermarket on Space related items is also rather shallow. Perhaps in the future if a manufacturer markets a large scale model like the ones I've listed, then perhaps more people may be inticed to enter the realm of Realspace. I know I would pay good money for one.

I would love to do some space models but I cant afford most of the resin models and the plastic one are not very appealing.  If they started issuing some reasonably priced models with good quality I would buy but I cant find any.

Hans Christian M. Ben wrote:

This is the reason I like card models... Card models offered me a chance to model space subjects that I would never hope to appear on plastic... or if they have it in plastic, I could never hope of buying them because of their high price, or their scarce availability in our place... At first I could only hope of having one model, but now, I can build anything from mercury to STS, Vostok to Buran, Salyut to ISS (and in large scales to, like 1/96, 1/100, even 1/50)

I forgot to add...

It is thru card models that I was able to build SpaceShipOne & White Knight (in 1/48 & 1/32 scale), and the Ares I & V CEV launchers, plus the spececraft & lunar lander

I agree totally with Hans.  I just completed a 1/48 Gemini-Titan rocket and am currently working on a 1/48 Apollo Saturn V w/ block 2 SM.  Another premium advantage of paper models is that you can "repaint" it to any markings you wish -- and if you make a mistake, you can just print out another replacement part.

Mike

I hear you Hans ..... I've built almost everything that was available on the net.  It is a really fun and inxepensive hobby.  And there is plenty of choice.

Have you tried the laser cutted models from spacecraftkits.com or the ones from delta7studios.com ?

They are great

yeti0010 wrote:

I would love to do some space models but I cant afford most of the resin models and the plastic one are not very appealing.  If they started issuing some reasonably priced models with good quality I would buy but I cant find any.

MRC have issued a quite impressive model of the Mercury Spacecraft at 1/12 scale.  There is room for improvements but overall, it's a great multimedia kit with a very well done figure.  For around $60, it's a great model.

In the same vein, someone (I can't remember who) is currently working on a 1/12 Gemini --AND -- Atomic City (who did the original molds for the 1/12 Mercury) is planning a 1/12 Apollo CM/SM.  Won't be cheap -- but WOW!

 Mike

Maybe with a sex scandel and an attempted murder charge interest will pick up

mhvink wrote:

I agree totally with Hans.  I just completed a 1/48 Gemini-Titan rocket and am currently working on a 1/48 Apollo Saturn V w/ block 2 SM.  Another premium advantage of paper models is that you can "repaint" it to any markings you wish -- and if you make a mistake, you can just print out another replacement part. Mike

plus, you can detail it as extensive as you like!!!

check this out:

 

This is the 1/48 scale Saturn V (still not finished) that a friend of ours at the cardmodels.net forumboards is designing (name's Greelt). He plans to finish the whole rocket to the top, including the CSM & LEM (& from what I've heard, he plans to design the interior)...

so far this are the parts that is available, but he hopes to finish it soon...

oh, and don't ask for the price... its 100% free when fully available...

this and many other real-space models hosed by another friend of ours at cardmodels.net, Jonathan Leslie

http://jleslie48.com/

check out the links page for more

Yann Solo wrote:

I hear you Hans ..... I've built almost everything that was available on the net.  It is a really fun and inxepensive hobby.  And there is plenty of choice. Have you tried the laser cutted models from spacecraftkits.com or the ones from delta7studios.com ? They are great

Yup, if somebody can't find a model in kit form, I can bet they can find it in card, especially real space...

I've yet to try the delta7studios & the spacecraftkits.com model, but looking forward to it because they're so greatly detailed...

 

Right now, I'm building the 1/100 card ISS & STS at www.marscenter.it...

Hans Christian M. Ben wrote:

Right now, I'm building the 1/100 card ISS & STS at www.marscenter.it...

Please post some pics whenever you can.  I'dd like to see that.  I've printed the files a while back ago but never started the project.

So, to sum it up . . .

Space is not unpopular, it has just moved to a different media format (paper instead of plastic).  In that arena, it is VERY popular.  You can find nearly ALL spacecraft from the US, Russia, China and Europe.  As well as over 30 different satellites & space probes.

You can also use the paper patterns as masters for scratch building in plastic, if desired.

I still love plastic, but in today's economic climate, when a 1/96 Saturn V (in plastic) costs upwards of $89 (US) and the same Saturn V (in paper) costs about $0.14 (for cardstock), you can see why paper models are becoming so popular.

Mike

Rocket ships are boring to look at,have no class and  little history. The only exciting thing about spaceflight is BLASTOFF and Reentry.

 

Personnaly I like all aspects of the space program and I still have my poster of the original astronauts.  Yet I would never consider building a model though I do build model rockets that take off and get caught in trees :-) 

 

WR 

Yann Solo wrote:

Hans Christian M. Ben wrote: Right now, I'm building the 1/100 card ISS & STS at www.marscenter.it... Please post some pics whenever you can.  I'dd like to see that.  I've printed the files a while back ago but never started the project.

I'll post them as sson as I get into them!!!

mhvink wrote:

So, to sum it up . . . Space is not unpopular, it has just moved to a different media format (paper instead of plastic).  In that arena, it is VERY popular.  You can find nearly ALL spacecraft from the US, Russia, China and Europe.  As well as over 30 different satellites & space probes. You can also use the paper patterns as masters for scratch building in plastic, if desired. I still love plastic, but in today's economic climate, when a 1/96 Saturn V (in plastic) costs upwards of $89 (US) and the same Saturn V (in paper) costs about $0.14 (for cardstock), you can see why paper models are becoming so popular. Mike

 

yup I agree on that...

 

many people say that the reason why model manufacturers doesn't spend much on real-space subjects is because of the lack of potential profits... is short, it all boils down to money...

while card models, you can share a single throughout the net, and build ans many as you want till your hands bleed... (this is true when Revell cancelled their plans for a 1/48 scale SpaceShipOne)

plus, if, for some reason, your subject is still to be realized in card or plastic, you can actually design it by yourself using a 3D software with an "unfolder" program....

 and just like you said sir, card models make great styrene templates, no need for vacuum-forming, just cut and fold, or roll. Just sand away the imperfections and fill in some with putty or whatever...

Welshrob wrote:

Personnaly I like all aspects of the space program and I still have my poster of the original astronauts.  Yet I would never consider building a model though I do build model rockets that take off and get caught in trees :-)    WR

 

Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder... One can't really impress anyone...

you can say many real-space modelers dream of becoming astronauts (I know, I do, and still want to...), and our interests in the space program is not just confined on those tall rockets, heroic astronaut portraits and the like...

we all have our reasons why we love this subject, but the important thing is we love it, as a whole...

 

 

Welshrob wrote:

Rocket ships are boring to look at,have no class and  little history. The only exciting thing about spaceflight is BLASTOFF and Reentry.

I disagree on that sir...

Well, rockets aren't made to be pretty, like airliners, or some flashy jets and cars and ships... In fact, most people think of rockets as "flying pencils"... (well in our place it is called like that)

But the thing is, their looks aren't for show, they are there for a reason, which is usually critical...

Little history? Maybe so... But the fact is, during that short time span, the space program has advanced from notoriously crude machines to the fastest and the most sophisticated vehicles ever invented...

 

and no offensement sir, but try saying that to the more than 4,000 astronaut candidaccy applicants vying for just 8 slots (sometimes even less) once every 2 years.... plus the people here that are very much enthusiastic about spaceflight, like me... its quite offensive sir...

please make your opinions a little "reader friendly"... you might not know who are you hitting here...

anyway just my 2 cents...

A cut-away view of a rocket would be very interesting and maybe people would see how cool these vehicles are.

Most space probes, spacecraft, space telescope and other unmanned space vehicles would be way too cool to build.  (Maybe not as boring as rockets)  Plastic kits of these vehicles would all end up on my shelf if they were not expensive.  But manufacturers will not produce them simply because they will not sell enough to keep a low price.

The idea of starting with card models to scratchbuilt them with plastic is a very good idea.  I never thought about it and I'll give that a try someday.

Bgrigg wrote:

NASA took the last Saturn V rocket, broke it up into little pieces and laid it on it's side. A working rocket, the most powerful people mover ever built, and they laid it on it's side.

I would imagine that this was done for safety.  What with all
the hurricanes that hit Florida and all, that relatively light-weight
structure wouldn't stand up to a strong wind loading.  Besides,
with it on the ground people can look at each segment up close,
instead of just the main nozzles at ground level.

 ----

I read through most of the first page, but didn't get past that. 
Some of the comments really made me wonder, "why don't
people find space more fascinating, like I do?"  I don't think
that it has as much to do with the priorities of the new
generation as it does with pure human nature.  Hell, man
walked on the moon at Apollo 11, but already by was bored
with the Apollo program at 13.  (well - until the problems arose).

As for space models, I dunno.  Maybe people just feel more
distant to the space program.  We see cars all day long, and
most of us have been to airshows and see airplanes in the sky
on a regular basis.  Maybe it has something to do with this.  
I guess that doesn't explain the popularity of armor, though.

I think that some folks are turned off by the space program in
general because they feel like they never have any chance of
participating.  To even be considered for any sort of space program,
you generally need engineering and science training.  
You can write off 90% of the population right there.

Lasty...
For you space nuts, I HIGHLY recommend downloading
the free space simulator "OrbiterSim".  It is a great teacher
about orbital mechanics.  Flying in space doesn't quite work
like you would intuitively expect.  For instance, if you want
to accelerate your orbit speed, you perform a burn in the
opposite direction!  Really fascinating stuff. 

Thanks for giving me something to think about on the way home.
Cheers.

I think the manned space program has lost it's edge.  Putting people in orbit has become as commonplace as an international flight, and about equally as newsworthy when something goes wrong.  I grew up worshipping the Mercury 7 astronauts.  I had a picture of them on my wall.  I read everything I could about them.  My uncle, a retired USAF test pilot, trained as a USAF astronaut back when the AF and NASA each had their own program.  I had a picture of him in his silver space suit holding his helmet.  I remember visiting his home at Edwards AFB, being placed in the cockpit of his fighter jet (helmet and all).  Although I didn't know it at the time, one of my uncle's friend who stopped by for a barbeque was astronaut Ed White.  I still look up to those guys and I'm in awe of what they did.  Unfortunately I think that will be lost upon future generations for many of the reasons stated in the string of posts here.  I truly hope that the our space program does not stall but rather pushes out to the next "edge", and that it reignites a whole new generation with an exploratory spirit.

grandadjohn wrote:

Maybe with a sex scandel and an attempted murder charge interest will pick up

Well, it worked for figure skating!

I don't think that it's unpopular, I just feel that the niche for it is small. A little smaller than sci-fi, but not as small as figures IMHO. Why? I think it's because of the success of the space program. Both Mercury and Gemini projects led to the Apollo mission. Despite the usual thinking I don't think the Apollo mission had anything to do with science. I was strictly for the success of beating the Soviets to the Moon. Once we did and made it look easy, then the nations attention went elsewhere.

Model Companies initially had a few good models out and were bought up by fans. As the attention was drawn elsewhere, their profits dried up and they too looked elsewhere for other subjects. Same with the Shuttle. At the begining of the Shuttle project a few Companies came out with kits, but when the successes became commonplace the money went away.

At the same time the nations youth were more interested in seeing upclose space with the Hubble pictures and the special effects on TV and in video games than imagining things and building a model. Kid's will spend hours online and infront of a Gameboy. But won't even venture down the model aisle of a craft store. They've become passive participants to their own lives.

But Space models aren't dead. They survive thanks to the designers and producers of resin garage kits. Glenn of Real Space Models (www.realspacemodels.com) and Tomas from New Ware (http://mek.kosmo.cz/newware/  ) come to mind first. They don't have to be that expensive either. Sure, you can get Glenn's 1:24 Viking Orbiter and Lander for $150, but you can also get a 1:144 Little Joe for $15, or a 1:144  Mercury Redstone rocket for $20.  New Ware has similar deals - a 1:72 Viking 10 rocket or a Pioneer 4 launch vehicle for $17 or a 1:144 Atlas Agena for $26. So you see buying space insn't the outrageous prices you thought.

Finally it thats too expensive build your own. What I often do is take the card models and use them as templates to make styrene kits. A little additional research (not all card models are accurate) and few styrene "for sale" signs from a hardware store is all you need. Give it a try!

 

Oh , BTW I have no financial interest in those model co.'s. I'm just a satisfied customer.

I have read this forum, and agree that this subject is not all that popular. In saying that, I disagree that it is unpopular, as this area is a small part of the overall hobby. It has been written that the money is the motivation of the manufacturers, and space is not that profitable. I have Revell's mighty 1/96 scale Apollo Saturn V kit, and I have ordered the resin conversion for it. I also have  Atomic City's Mercury capsule, but they were not cheap. People may rather spend the money on 2 or more kits for the same price as 1, and storage wise, these kits are not small. I would like to get a 1/12 scale Apollo CSM, Vostock, Gemini, or Soyuz capsule. In 2009 it will be 40 years since Apollo 11 landed on the moon. Now is the time to push for more space kits, to remind people of what was and is being achieved in space. The club I am involved in, our show then, I hope, will be called Space Race 2009, focusing in on real and sci-fi space.

What????  Space unpopular?  I had no idea, all this time I thought we were just an elite bunch of modelers!

Having grown up with the space program, modeling gives me the opportunity to remember the "good old days" and when the neighborhood kids stop by and see the models, they get to experience (if only for a little while) the space program in a way that the history books can never duplicate!

It's the new generation that has to get interested in space exploration before there is anything "new" to model!

Yann Solo wrote:

The idea of starting with card models to scratchbuilt them with plastic is a very good idea.  I never thought about it and I'll give that a try someday.

 

I also plan on trying this when I build that 1/48 Saturn V...

I certainly hope that NASA's new moon program will put fire into everyone's belly once again...

It seems to me that space subjects as being unpopular goes to the question of why individuals have picked up this hobby.  I would guess that many are vets of military service and build those items that they used to deal with, or wanted to deal with.  (Witness the Vet GB on this site...) 

Others have their own reasons for making models, but personal histories, and wanting to artistically express some sense of patriotism are, (I'd bet a space of your choosing!) big reasons for the spread of this hobby.

That said, I find the sheer variety in the military fields of modeling much more interesting than space subjects, myself.  I'm guessing the rather limited options that would be available for space kits turns some off.  How many versions of a Redstone Rocket were there?  Probably several, but did they look all that different from one another?  The advent of after-market decals and the gradual proliferation of obscure aircraft types into the market provides competition that would make it very difficult for space subjects to compete with.  Much easier to wrap my head around a 1950s helicopter than some artefact of Star Wars.

Flynavy1958 

 

If you don't mind an Aircraft modeller chiming in...I couldn;t help notice that the most popular post in the space thread is about how unpopular space is. Now, that's irony!

Anyways, I personally think "space" includes a large portion of "Sci-Fi" as well. When you think Star Wars, Star Trek, and the million others, "space" is actually quite popular. Aircraft modelling has its own sub-divisions, WWI, propellers, jets, etc,....Space does, too, but there is a relatively shorter history that aircraft, which abviously limits the "real" spacecraft, but when you consider the broader area of sci-fi, I'd venture to say it's actually quite popular. My kids would prefer a Star Wars or Gundam model anyday to one of my "old and slow WWII planes".